Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Pawn Lelouch]

why we analyzing people who ain't here?

Likely useful long term so it's not a bad thing to do by any means. And you questioning this isn't exactly the best look considering how early into the day this is.

[Epignosis]

why we analyzing people who ain't here?

This is not won Day 2.

My hope would be that at least some civilians will copy and paste my commentary into a document for safekeeping.

In the event that I...don't wake up, my commentary will survive and can be used presented to the others to be used however the civilian faction might use it.

[Epignosis]

TonyStarkPrime

Aw, what a shame.

Oh shit, I just realized that you're a girl. We can hit the bed anytime then

Does that line generally work for you?

Everything works for me baby girl. Everything.

Cool. Where would you like to be branded?

Wait hold on, what branding are you talking about?

yours

Not sure I get the joke.

Wow what a great game so far. You guys are a great group of players and I'm like just stoked to be here!

Where the hell did this overjoyous Mac come from?

Apparently Mac had enough of creature doing what I like to call “the day zero creature”

Okay.

Morning everyone, can't say i'll gladly catch up, can someone tell me if is worth reading all the last 7 pages?

Ah Michelle ma belle blah blah blah French stuff

To be honest no but it also can’t hurt?
Summary:
Juliets: bad
Nutella: good
Drago: weird
Jack: good for now
Nova: scary after cats and dogs
elephant: elephant
Mac: very positive
Creature: creature
iaiaafrair: my new favorite

Spoiler: show

Question for all of you, do you guys believe this game would have some fake claims? I personally think yes. It's a big factor in why I suspect 112 as a matter of fact.

I mean I only my role and the sample role but from those super no

Huh?

iaafr

creature
dragomir
michelle
sprityo
benson

evenstar
hyena

null line

112
macdougall
jackofhearts
nutella

why the fuck are both Creature and Dragomir so high here
Also not getting great vibes from benson
Nutella and Jack ought to be higher, too
overall, garbage readslist, making me feel worse about Iaafr

This is bad as hell. How can you use the fact that you disagree with the read list against iaafr? Ppl have different perspectives and won't always share your own. I despise the shade that you're throwing at iaafr here.

I super question how badly this list is off. Feels like they're not playing the same game as me. That means they're probably not the same alignment as me. QED.

Fair I guess but it’s also see Drago’s point. Iaafr threw out a rainbow with maybe half a dozen controversial reads. I think it’s town because of this shift on Mac and 112, plinko theory suggests that scum doesn’t make such significant shifts like that without a clearer game plan

This seems to present more commentary regarding iaafr rather than Dragomir. Eh.

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Here's what JJJ said in the OP:

"Characters are randomized and have no connection to role abilities. You can even role play if you like."

So I read that as you can't tell from the character what the role abilities are.

I'm not talking about role abilities, I'm talking about alignments.

Here’s how I see it

A game was designed with blank power roles associated with alignment
Then 29 characters were completely randomly matched to roles

Drago Yes but my character is also like I’m not sure if it would be good or bad anyways it isn’t like that

My suspicion on 112 is not based on him character claiming.

What is it based on then?

Read the last page and you'll find out.

I did. Why'd your read evaporate as soon as you got confirmation that flavor isn't alignment-indicative?

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

Pressing Dragomir to do civilian work instead of worrying about mechanics would have moved the needle in TSP’s favor. Instead, TSP renders an opinion about roles. Eh.

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

Why's Drago assuming 112 knew this before him?

Knew what?

that roles were completely NAI

I mean maybe Drago is assuming 112 read the rules

Then it'd mean no safe claims for scum, meaning 112 isn't roleplaying a safe claim.

Yeah no I don't buy this is a real thought. Scum have to be able to fake the form of a town role PM, or else D1 mass-flavour-claim breaks the game.

No I get I it I think. Drago thought that 112 had a safe claim and was trying to use that to leverage town cred in a way where 112 wouldn’t use the claim to leverage cred if they were actually town. That falls apart if all character claims are random.

I hate the phrasing of this. All that shade at my case on 112.

Disregard the phrasing: Do I understand your case correctly?
Regard the phrasing: I think it’s a good case with your premises so what do you have a problem with?

Yes.
Because you're pretty much saying that I was being manipulative and trying to diminish something that could happen in the future, which isn't the case.

No I think it’s fine reasoning and fwiw you might be right I just don’t think it’s a thing that could happen given my understanding of the nature of this game.

There appears to be a misunderstanding between Dragomir (who shows outrage) and TSP (who remains calm). If this is a teammate interaction, it is laced with intricate nuance.

And Drago what’s up with you? Three particular anti aligned pairs, groups that aren’t w/w.

This is the last question of a series of questions posed to various people.

112 - lean scum, not getting much of a feel on posts either way but follows scum patterns
Benson - null
Creature - ehhhhh
DFaraday - well he commented once on something I said so therefore Town
Dom - null but GTH town
Dragomir - lean scum but on activity not posts independently
Elephant - town
Epignosis - probably town, -EV Lynch otherwise
Evenstar - null. Come at me.
Hyena - lean town, I like the style of their posts
iaafr - Town solely off the “most towny” activity. Establishing a towncore early is a huge detriment to scum who would want to actively work against that goal.
Jackofhearts2005 - null
juliets - no reason not to be scum but again I’m still feeling Girl Genius so just be aware of my biases
Lady Lambdadelta - null but lean scum because they confuse me and that’s bad
Long Con - lean town, I like his posts
MacDougall - lean scum a little bit
Master Radishes - always gives me bad vibes but it could just be cause I don’t like radishes
Michelle - null
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - null but in a good way
novaselinenever - can be scum for all I care
nutella - probably town
Pawn Lelouch - no reason to townread here and I’m not trusting Eva. Scum.
Quin - null
Rej - scum but not a lot of content to get to that
Spiny Creature - Town
sprityo - lean town
Texas Cloverleaf - null
TonyStarkPrime
Trustworthy Liberal - null
vanity. - lean scum, I’m not getting any of the genuine defenses that others have put out


someone GTH me on two of my null reads and I’ll probably get back to you

TSP called Dragomir bad, but with a qualification.

I’m here. This game isn’t running at a speed where I can catch up from my last post. I’d vote for 112 over Drago unless someone @s me and explains why

Given my present take on 112, I don’t object to this.

++++

There is a mixed bag here. Some interactions warrant a raised eyebrow, but the biggest evidence in TSP’s favor is the little spat with Dragomir. It doesn’t look staged, so that’s nice.

[Epignosis]

Trustworthy Liberal

Okay lets think might vote for Dragomir but will ISO first now that am home on not using a phone no offense but this site is really hard to use on mobile.

While I can appreciate the timing and existence of this, it seems backwards. Normally one reads something and then decides to place a vote. The consideration to place a vote on Dragomir preceded the investigation, which is unusual.

@Trustworthy Liberal
You should place a vote. :P

That goes for @DFaraday , @novaselinenever , and @Rej, too, even though they haven't been active.

Hyena if you remember i am very reluctent to vote every since it got me killed in my first forum game thats why am ready the Dragomir person first

I’m not quite sure I understand this, but okay.

Okay just finshed Dragomir's ISO don't see multy quotes so heres my thoughts on him

-Seemed to go alittle far with evenstar (not alignment indicative)
-Made a case on 112 based off characters claims saying that a town wouldn't play that way but the case became empty due to random characters
-Not a lot of depth short anwsers threw shade on Mac leaving his vote there before leaving
-hasn't posted in thread since early yesterday morning (my time atleast)

Don't think this is enough to call him 100% scum but i don't think he has been pushing a town presence would love if he could come back and post a little. I know this is ironic coming from me but atleast am here now.


Conclusion
----------------
Scum lean on him based off what he did push when he was fairly active so willing to lynch this today, him missing for a long period doesn't make him look any better either.

(someone tell me the command for voting i didn't see it when i looked sorry for being a bother)

Here is the investigation, and the vote followed two minutes later.

++++

Given that TL was evidently up five votes with less than two hours to go means that, if TL is a teammate of Dragomir (arguably the most powerful mafia member on the squad), TL would be looking to either receive votes and try to keep Dragomir around longer or generate a lynch elsewhere. Neither of these things happened. I know not everyone plays things out optimally (optimally would not even be an option given Dragomir’s absence), but these posts give me a slightly favorable impression of TL.

[Epignosis]

vanity.

strongest v's after reading are nutella, epignosis, and evenstar.

sprityo, jack, elephant, iaafr, and creature are all probably v's. some of those don't feel great but that's how i felt while reading.

nanook and master radishes are the trailing edge of my town circle. dragomir is sorta towny too but i didn't really get that one quickly at all.

the townreads on michelle make absolutely no sense to me. they group of people townreading her might contain wolves purely because i think michelle hasn't really projected town or shown me massive differences to the limited amount of wolfgames i read from her.

juliets' posts just feel incredibly stiff to me. i don't know how to explain it, it just doesn't feel like any of the questions and observations she's making are real.

pawn's impact on the game feels super underwhelming at the moment.

This statement exists.

guess i can entertain your ideas mac, not doing color coding tho

dark green:
hyena
creature
nutella
jack
mr
iaafr

light green:
sprityo
mac
epig
lld
spiny
benson

yellow:
nanook
texas
evenstar
pawn
elephant
rej
long con
drago
dom

orange:
dfaraday
tonystarkprime
juliets
112
quin
michelle
tlib

red:
nova

vanity, what was the progression that led from “sorta towny” to yellow?

i could kill drago here i think

If forced to choose, I’d say this looks spontaneous and natural rather than forced.

Drago is Town here no?

i do not understand any of your posts

be villagery

Hi! Nice to meet you.

hi, nice to meet you too.

how's your day?

quick sell on tsp over drago pls

i dunno lol

i just want competitive wagons

vanity. did not engage nova on his assertion that Dragomir is good. Rather, vanity. pressed nova. That looks to be in the former’s favor.

[VOTE: drago] aubergine

don't want epi lynched

Do you think someone else would've hopped on the Epi wagon? We would've needed two more people to take the lead over Drago.

idk

i just think epi is likely a v

This likewise is favorable.

++++

The evidence isn’t overwhelmingly strong, but it is sufficiently encouraging. I do not plan on pursuing a vanity. lynch today. Not that I could if I wanted to.

[Epignosis]

That's everyone, I think.

Go Nats.

[Dom]

Master Radishes-- what's up?

[Epignosis]

Epignosis do you know if the latter names on the polls are the ones latest to the vote or is it all mixed up?

Sorry, I missed this.

As far as I know, poll orders are out of order. Can't trust it.

[Evenstar]

... man, I really wonder what chaos is currently occurring in the other thread

The majority of players just vanished
Did someone die? Multiple someones? Were we announced as having moved or did we just vanish with no explanation?

Are there scum there? Are there scum here? Probably there are scum in both places, but idek what the point of... oh, duh, the voting rules and the power thing, those are relevant. Ok. And the scum are Leo and Co, so... they have to progress through the levels somehow? Did they set this up? Probably there's some limitation on what they can do...

Yeah I got nothing. I super want to see how this shit works behind the scenes.

Given that multiple levels exist and there were three in the movie, I think we can bet that this'll happen again tonight - some of us will move to a new thread, some of us will [whatever happened to the other 13 players]

is there even another thread

there is super probably another thread

that or we're on a ridiculous clock and half of us are dead, but I don't think the GM would do that to us

This is stupid and I should table it for now, I'm just making myself paranoid because "what if we're in here with an 8-man scum team", which... yeah lol not happening

Stop doing that thing where you sow chaos please. There's no evidence of another thread, there's certainly no 8-person scum team in here, there certainly are some scum in here, and anyway it doesn't matter because we have a game to play.

The fact that 13 people are missing is strong evidence of another thread, not to mention the "this thread" and "this level" mentions in the OP. And of course there aren't eight or zero scum in here: if there were I would never return to this forum after such unannounced bastardry.

Figuring out mechanics is important. Note the fact that the only flip we have is Dragomir's: there are no NKs to analyze and nobody is confirmed town. I'm definitely going to play differently if I expect that half of us might have the same thing happen again: particularly, I'm inclined to vote towards lynches that give maximum information rather than lynches with slightly higher chance of hitting scum, since that flip might be all I get to work with if this happens to me again.

I would estimate... ~8 scum originally, 1 dead is 7 left, 16 people here, 13 in another place... 3 scum there 4 scum here? That works out quite neatly.

[ColinIsCool]

So ... I just replaced in for somebody. Rej maybe?

I will be doing some catching up ...

[novaselinenever]

I don't have to read 30 pages now

[MacDougall]

@Pawn Lelouch Mind explaining why you told me Mac was responsible for "crusading" on the Epi wagon when he... really didn't do dick all except have a bout of paranoia?

Since he is the person who basically started the Epi wagon and was the person who got people to vote on it.

Since no one actually posted any real reasons to put their vote on him outside of vague paranoia that mimicked Mac's. They just followed onto him out of fearmongering about Epi's scum game from Mac.

So from my perspective Mac is by far the most prominent reason and person why Epi was a wagon. I stand by what I said.

Okay, this is a much better answer. I do agree that Mac was the catalyst, but IMO the jumps on looked very opportunistic and scummy, which said to me that Mac was a wrong townie getting taken advantage of by uhhhh fuck I didn't write it down I was expecting to have the thread still

Epignosis do you recall who followed Mac onto your wagon? There were like three votes in quick succession, I think one of them was Iaafr?

MacDougall was one. iaafr was one. Hyena was one. novaselinenever was one. There was one more, but it is eluding me. The most I had at one point was five votes.

Yeah Nova super deserves pressure today after following Mac like that.

Speaking of which, @Macdougall: Stop overthinking and get out of your Epi tunnel, this man is town. You're reading way too much in and letting your paranoia get the best of you.

wtf is this based on?

[Epignosis]

Game isn't until 8:08, so I have ten minutes.

Epignosis
Voted many hours before EoD – only reason I could see was in a later readslist: “Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)”
Was around at EoD and barely engaged with the Drago/112 wagons – didn’t even vote Drago to self-preserve when he was briefly the counter-wagon to Drago

Conclusion: Suspicious

As far as I remember, my vote went there for no real reason at all. Reasons developed later. One big one for me was that 112 voted for me based on something he said- not something I said- and framed it as though it made me guilty. That's trash. That's trying to keep his hands clean voting for someone nobody was really talking about. Don't believe me? 112 ended up on Trustworthy Liberal- someone nobody was really talking about.

Bear in mind that if I'm bad, I am not letting my godfather get lynched Day 1. I know that might not mean anything to you since you do not know me, but when I am on a mafia team, I try to make optimal, coordinated decisions and not drop the ball. Letting your godfather get lynched Day 1 is arguably the most sub-optimal thing you can do.

If 112 is Dragomir's teammate, it makes all the sense in the world to let himself (112) get lynched. That would preserve the godfather. 112 didn't have the thread presence to push anybody else, couldn't vote for himself (and maintain any credibility), and if he voted for Dragomir late, he would be surrendering his godfather with less hope that he could be spared. I wonder if 112's hands were tied.

[MacDougall]

Firstly, you are not qualified to make statements like that Evenstar. How I engage Epignosis is entirely up to me. You've played literally zero games with him. Why are you talking like you have some empirical wisdom as it pertains to his role?

Secondly, I've given you no indication that I even suspect Epi anymore so your comment is bizarrely out of sync with up to date reality.

[Evenstar]

@Pawn Lelouch Mind explaining why you told me Mac was responsible for "crusading" on the Epi wagon when he... really didn't do dick all except have a bout of paranoia?

Since he is the person who basically started the Epi wagon and was the person who got people to vote on it.

Since no one actually posted any real reasons to put their vote on him outside of vague paranoia that mimicked Mac's. They just followed onto him out of fearmongering about Epi's scum game from Mac.

So from my perspective Mac is by far the most prominent reason and person why Epi was a wagon. I stand by what I said.

Okay, this is a much better answer. I do agree that Mac was the catalyst, but IMO the jumps on looked very opportunistic and scummy, which said to me that Mac was a wrong townie getting taken advantage of by uhhhh fuck I didn't write it down I was expecting to have the thread still

Epignosis do you recall who followed Mac onto your wagon? There were like three votes in quick succession, I think one of them was Iaafr?

MacDougall was one. iaafr was one. Hyena was one. novaselinenever was one. There was one more, but it is eluding me. The most I had at one point was five votes.

Yeah Nova super deserves pressure today after following Mac like that.

Speaking of which, @Macdougall: Stop overthinking and get out of your Epi tunnel, this man is town. You're reading way too much in and letting your paranoia get the best of you.

wtf is this based on?

His whole damn iso plus the fact that like three people instantly jumped on him as a counterwagon to a lynched wolf as soon as you voted for him

For crying out loud, do you believe that 112/Dragomir/Epignosis were THREE SCUM WAGONS?

Give your fucking head a shake man, you're playing terribly this game.

[MacDougall]

@Pawn Lelouch Mind explaining why you told me Mac was responsible for "crusading" on the Epi wagon when he... really didn't do dick all except have a bout of paranoia?

Since he is the person who basically started the Epi wagon and was the person who got people to vote on it.

Since no one actually posted any real reasons to put their vote on him outside of vague paranoia that mimicked Mac's. They just followed onto him out of fearmongering about Epi's scum game from Mac.

So from my perspective Mac is by far the most prominent reason and person why Epi was a wagon. I stand by what I said.

Okay, this is a much better answer. I do agree that Mac was the catalyst, but IMO the jumps on looked very opportunistic and scummy, which said to me that Mac was a wrong townie getting taken advantage of by uhhhh fuck I didn't write it down I was expecting to have the thread still

Epignosis do you recall who followed Mac onto your wagon? There were like three votes in quick succession, I think one of them was Iaafr?

MacDougall was one. iaafr was one. Hyena was one. novaselinenever was one. There was one more, but it is eluding me. The most I had at one point was five votes.

Yeah Nova super deserves pressure today after following Mac like that.

Speaking of which, @Macdougall: Stop overthinking and get out of your Epi tunnel, this man is town. You're reading way too much in and letting your paranoia get the best of you.

wtf is this based on?

His whole damn iso plus the fact that like three people instantly jumped on him as a counterwagon to a lynched wolf as soon as you voted for him

For crying out loud, do you believe that 112/Dragomir/Epignosis were THREE SCUM WAGONS?

Give your fucking head a shake man, you're playing terribly this game.

Get off your high horse please. You're embarrassing.

[MacDougall]

I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.

[novaselinenever]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] Who are you?

[Evenstar]

Like, I could maybe see it in a 112 Town world, because then scum would be on her wagon, but if all three of Epi/112/Drago were scum, where the hell were all the scum voting?

[Evenstar]

I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.

Could have sworn you were sussing him earlier today, and your wagon was bad tbqh. Maybe I got you mixed up with someone else, let me check back at daystart.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis Who are you?

I am the subconscious aspect of the King of Fuck Mountain.

[Evenstar]

I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.

- my bad, it was Radishes and Iaafr who were sussing him and I'm used to their reads being bad lol

[novaselinenever]

did you guys notice novaselinenever said they bought 112's ate and then voted them at eod with pretty much no progression or individual sus?

Had Drago as town as well though

[Pawn Lelouch]

Let's see.

The movie had Di Caprio as Cobb (showrunner), Gordon-Levitt as Arthur (producer), Ellen Page as Ariadne (architecht/designer), Tom Hardy as Eames (forger), Ken Watanabe as Mr. Saito (Client), Dileep Rao as Yusef (Chemist). These are the 6 who can definitely be considered part of the team.
‐------
The Possibilities

Cillian Murphy as Robert Fischer (the target), Tom Berenger as Peter Browning (godfather to target), Pete Postelwaithe as Maurice Fischer (target's father), Michael Caine as Professor Miles (Cobb's father in law + Ariadne's mentor), Lukas Haas as Nash (former architect who betrayed the team)

Nonexistent:

Marian Cottillard as Mal Cobb
-----
So 6 guarantees. If we include the target that's 7. I don't see where a 8th fits in here?

So obviously fluff is very obviously something that shouldn't be relied on, but what I'm trying to figure out is where you got the exact number of 8 here. Walk me through thought process.

[novaselinenever]

novaselinenever

Drago is Town here no?

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

++++

I’ll let nova’s posts speak for themselves. nova can remain a suspect.

Those are ugly posts lol.

[MacDougall]

[mention]Dom[/mention] in regards to your comments in that wall post.

"Sucking up to Epi" is a pretty interesting way to describe what I was doing. The Long Con quotes were not me sucking up to Epi. They were Long Con trying to gotcha me by saying that me saying his scumteams usually win doesn't jive with me saying I've not played against scum him. Newsflash, I've read the HOF. Also what does me explaining how I feel about Epi have to do with how I feel about you? I don't understand the connection you're trying to make?

Re: Do I think you're bad. Again, why are you choosing to analyse how I am treating you as though it has anything to do with how I treat Epi? Firstly, I tend to ignore you in games quite a great deal these days because of how you historically lose your shit with how I deal with you. Given it's just a game I'd rather not make the experience for everyone, including you and me, toxic. Other people can solve you, and are better at it. Secondly, you came into the thread about 4000 pages after Epi did so you "cruising" vs. him "cruising" mean absolutely different things. I hadn't even thought of you as cruising. But now that you point it out... you do something that could be described as cruising in most games that I notice anyway.

Re: You having similarities to Nanook. Nanook hates the way I play as much as you do.

Re: My interaction with Benson. I have about seven billion games experience with Epi. Benson does not. For Benson to want to protect Epi on the basis of how others including myself rate him struck me as false. Meh, it was a fleeting thought. Benson overall looked fine I think.

Re: Is Drago getting lynched for sleaze. I was trying to think of the overarching reason Dragomir was catching so much suspicion and drawing blanks outside of the fact that he was being weird towards Evenstar. I guess sleazy Dragomir is a scumtell of his lol.

[MacDougall]

@Epignosis Who are you?

This is a mood. It's like the spirit of Sloonei has taken over his body.

[novaselinenever]

Let's see.

The movie had Di Caprio as Cobb (showrunner), Gordon-Levitt as Arthur (producer), Ellen Page as Ariadne (architecht/designer), Tom Hardy as Eames (forger), Ken Watanabe as Mr. Saito (Client), Dileep Rao as Yusef (Chemist). These are the 6 who can definitely be considered part of the team.
‐------
The Possibilities

Cillian Murphy as Robert Fischer (the target), Tom Berenger as Peter Browning (godfather to target), Pete Postelwaithe as Maurice Fischer (target's father), Michael Caine as Professor Miles (Cobb's father in law + Ariadne's mentor), Lukas Haas as Nash (former architect who betrayed the team)

Nonexistent:

Marian Cottillard as Mal Cobb
-----
So 6 guarantees. If we include the target that's 7. I don't see where a 8th fits in here?

So obviously fluff is very obviously something that shouldn't be relied on, but what I'm trying to figure out is where you got the exact number of 8 here. Walk me through thought process.

Who got 8?

[Evenstar]

Let's see.

The movie had Di Caprio as Cobb (showrunner), Gordon-Levitt as Arthur (producer), Ellen Page as Ariadne (architecht/designer), Tom Hardy as Eames (forger), Ken Watanabe as Mr. Saito (Client), Dileep Rao as Yusef (Chemist). These are the 6 who can definitely be considered part of the team.
‐------
The Possibilities

Cillian Murphy as Robert Fischer (the target), Tom Berenger as Peter Browning (godfather to target), Pete Postelwaithe as Maurice Fischer (target's father), Michael Caine as Professor Miles (Cobb's father in law + Ariadne's mentor), Lukas Haas as Nash (former architect who betrayed the team)

Nonexistent:

Marian Cottillard as Mal Cobb
-----
So 6 guarantees. If we include the target that's 7. I don't see where a 8th fits in here?

So obviously fluff is very obviously something that shouldn't be relied on, but what I'm trying to figure out is where you got the exact number of 8 here. Walk me through thought process.

30/4=7.5, err high because large setup
I didn't remember how many peeps there were in the movie, just that there were a bunch

8 is large for a unified scumteam though, and this game does seem to be going heavy on flavour, so... my question to you is "why doesn't Mal exist"? 6 mafia + Mal as an SK plus... I remember in the movie that they got the target to actively fight his own subconcious, they could be a second 3p?

[MacDougall]

I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.

- my bad, it was Radishes and Iaafr who were sussing him and I'm used to their reads being bad lol

Okay well with the way you attack people I'd double check the facts first because it's pretty lame.

[novaselinenever]

Looking at the Dragomir voters I'd say that the ones most likely to be teammates are Long Con and Juliets at face value, which is obviously not very helpful.

Juliet was the first that came to mind. LC's was hella sloppy but possible I guess

[iaafr]

I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.

- my bad, it was Radishes and Iaafr who were sussing him and I'm used to their reads being bad lol

your bad

[novaselinenever]

Mac the shitting the bed I was referring to before D1 was why didn't you break the tie or weight in at all at EoD? You had Drago as red throughout the phase and 112 definitely not as red if I remember correctly

[iaafr]

I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.

- my bad, it was Radishes and Iaafr who were sussing him and I'm used to their reads being bad lol

or consider stopping entirely
Okay well with the way you attack people I'd double check the facts first because it's pretty lame.

[iaafr]

whoops editing on mobile

[novaselinenever]

my most desired pool is

{tonystarkprime, creature, novaselinenever, texas cloverleaf}

i know these arent very exciting but they are my highest likelihood scumpool

I disagree on that nova dude, he looks civ af to me

[Evenstar]

Firstly, you are not qualified to make statements like that Evenstar. How I engage Epignosis is entirely up to me. You've played literally zero games with him. Why are you talking like you have some empirical wisdom as it pertains to his role?

Secondly, I've given you no indication that I even suspect Epi anymore so your comment is bizarrely out of sync with up to date reality.

Chill, I attributed things radishes and iaafr said to you. Touchy much?

[Pawn Lelouch]

Let's see.

The movie had Di Caprio as Cobb (showrunner), Gordon-Levitt as Arthur (producer), Ellen Page as Ariadne (architecht/designer), Tom Hardy as Eames (forger), Ken Watanabe as Mr. Saito (Client), Dileep Rao as Yusef (Chemist). These are the 6 who can definitely be considered part of the team.
‐------
The Possibilities

Cillian Murphy as Robert Fischer (the target), Tom Berenger as Peter Browning (godfather to target), Pete Postelwaithe as Maurice Fischer (target's father), Michael Caine as Professor Miles (Cobb's father in law + Ariadne's mentor), Lukas Haas as Nash (former architect who betrayed the team)

Nonexistent:

Marian Cottillard as Mal Cobb
-----
So 6 guarantees. If we include the target that's 7. I don't see where a 8th fits in here?

So obviously fluff is very obviously something that shouldn't be relied on, but what I'm trying to figure out is where you got the exact number of 8 here. Walk me through thought process.

30/4=7.5, err high because large setup
I didn't remember how many peeps there were in the movie, just that there were a bunch

8 is large for a unified scumteam though, and this game does seem to be going heavy on flavour, so... my question to you is "why doesn't Mal exist"? 6 mafia + Mal as an SK plus... I remember in the movie that they got the target to actively fight his own subconcious, they could be a second 3p?

Was talking about in the context of a united team. 3p/SK Mal absolutely can exist, she's just never in a united scum team.

Hm, I'd honestly lean more 3p than SK, since while she doesn't fit as a part of the target's subconscious and thus likely isn't considered straight town, since she's from Cobb she is explicitly against that group. Plus if I remember right she never really attacked the subconscious unless it benefitted her overall goal of getting at Cobb.

[MacDougall]

Mac the shitting the bed I was referring to before D1 was why didn't you break the tie or weight in at all at EoD? You had Drago as red throughout the phase and 112 definitely not as red if I remember correctly

I don't really like firing shots in that situation most of the time unless I have a strong feel (or I'm feeling like sewing chaos). If push came to shove I would have probably pres voted Dragomir to help save 112 but who knows. By the time I even started considering which wagon to put my vote on Dragomir had stretched away and tbh I didn't have very good feelings that either of them were going to flip red towards the end of the day. The wagonomics of Dragomir flipping red weren't really there, which is partly why I think it's possibly dueling scumwagons.

[MacDougall]

Firstly, you are not qualified to make statements like that Evenstar. How I engage Epignosis is entirely up to me. You've played literally zero games with him. Why are you talking like you have some empirical wisdom as it pertains to his role?

Secondly, I've given you no indication that I even suspect Epi anymore so your comment is bizarrely out of sync with up to date reality.

Chill, I attributed things radishes and iaafr said to you. Touchy much?

I wrote this before I saw that.

[ColinIsCool]

Wait, Tom Berenger is in Inception?

[iaafr]

big talk from someone who didn't see drago as obvscum

[ColinIsCool]

Okay I was thinking of Tom Bergeron.

[Evenstar]

Let's see.

The movie had Di Caprio as Cobb (showrunner), Gordon-Levitt as Arthur (producer), Ellen Page as Ariadne (architecht/designer), Tom Hardy as Eames (forger), Ken Watanabe as Mr. Saito (Client), Dileep Rao as Yusef (Chemist). These are the 6 who can definitely be considered part of the team.
‐------
The Possibilities

Cillian Murphy as Robert Fischer (the target), Tom Berenger as Peter Browning (godfather to target), Pete Postelwaithe as Maurice Fischer (target's father), Michael Caine as Professor Miles (Cobb's father in law + Ariadne's mentor), Lukas Haas as Nash (former architect who betrayed the team)

Nonexistent:

Marian Cottillard as Mal Cobb
-----
So 6 guarantees. If we include the target that's 7. I don't see where a 8th fits in here?

So obviously fluff is very obviously something that shouldn't be relied on, but what I'm trying to figure out is where you got the exact number of 8 here. Walk me through thought process.

30/4=7.5, err high because large setup
I didn't remember how many peeps there were in the movie, just that there were a bunch

8 is large for a unified scumteam though, and this game does seem to be going heavy on flavour, so... my question to you is "why doesn't Mal exist"? 6 mafia + Mal as an SK plus... I remember in the movie that they got the target to actively fight his own subconcious, they could be a second 3p?

Was talking about in the context of a united team. 3p/SK Mal absolutely can exist, she's just never in a united scum team.

Hm, I'd honestly lean more 3p than SK, since while she doesn't fit as a part of the target's subconscious and thus likely isn't considered straight town, since she's from Cobb she is explicitly against that group. Plus if I remember right she never really attacked the subconscious unless it benefitted her overall goal of getting at Cobb.

Yeah, she seems more likely to be a Lyncher or similar on deeper consideration.

[ColinIsCool]

Full disclosure: might not actually be able to read or do anything constructive until tomorrow a.m.

[Evenstar]

Firstly, you are not qualified to make statements like that Evenstar. How I engage Epignosis is entirely up to me. You've played literally zero games with him. Why are you talking like you have some empirical wisdom as it pertains to his role?

Secondly, I've given you no indication that I even suspect Epi anymore so your comment is bizarrely out of sync with up to date reality.

Chill, I attributed things radishes and iaafr said to you. Touchy much?

I wrote this before I saw that.

Fair enough.

[Dom]

Mac the shitting the bed I was referring to before D1 was why didn't you break the tie or weight in at all at EoD? You had Drago as red throughout the phase and 112 definitely not as red if I remember correctly

Agreed, Nova.

[iaafr]

I miss the >w<

[Evenstar]

man, these rules make it difficult to talk about shit

I want to post a "never lynching" list but that would obviously narrow my vote

how are we supposed to coordinate on a target? :/

... consensus pool of top 3 scum, like leashing a vig?

Assuming 1/4 of players here are scum, there are four scum votes

they have a massive advantage unless we can focus our fire somehow

[iaafr]

I was actually so excited for an all out d2

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan