A Mafia of Unfortunate Events [END GAME]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Reread the day. Several things I'd like to talk about. Let's start with the elephant.

This game is giving me flash backs to Turf Wars.

We're still doing better then that game.

I mean technically we're only two civs down, one mafia member, then another three unknowns. So I'd say we're doing pretty good. Also who knows maybe I'll have another god like meta/gut read I can talk about next phase.

If not? Then I've got no idea who we should lynch.

I was more-so referring to the atomic bomb of suspicion I'm anticipating coming into the next day phase

I don't think you're all that suspicious. Why do you think you're suspicious? Guilty conscience?

At the time of this post, you appear to be the sixth person to accuse (and I'm using that word loosely) Quin or say that Quin specifically merits an ISO. This is on a day that pretty much nobody talked about anything but Dom. I find this (and I hate using this word) interesting and would like some other people to weigh in with their thoughts.

First, Sig includes Quin on a list of possible Troupe members for voting away from Gloryo but not at LC.

Second, DDL and Quin do their OMGUS dance. I trust DDL more as a whole but sympathize more with Quin's side of this specific argument. (This may not actually be second as I read the thread backwards then forwards. Whatever.)

Third, Eloh goes off on Quin for not following the Dom train, which is hilarious to me for several reasons. Eloh doesn't know why we're voting Dom. Several players have expressed concern that the Dom lynch is too easy. Some asked for other suspects (LC) or provided them (Epi) but most just said they were worried and nobody strongly went after anyone. Quin still votes DDL, which I disagree with but it draws unnecessary attention no matter how Dom flips and won't save Dom if they were w/w so I don't see why a scummer would bother. As town, it at least gets an opinion on record and as indy, it might be nightkill insurance. Whatever Quin's reasons for voting DDL, I think Eloh's response is way off mark. It's a bad look.

Fourth, INS comes in and says he's worried about the Dom lynch. Maybe he should look into Quin. I generally like INS but why Quin? This is why I say "interesting" cause if I didn't already like INS as town, I'd really dislike that post following Eloh's but since I do...idk.

Fifth, Snow Dog comes in, apologizes, then says he needs to look into Quin. This feels opportunistic, piling on a weakly thought out/discussed consensus. But it's hard to say Snow is being opportunistic without saying the same for INH so again...ugh....interesting. Also afraid I'm tunneling on Snow cause drunk/Day 0/Day 1 Snow didn't look good to me.

Sixth, MM comes in and suggests Quin isn't actually suspected so he must be scum imagining things. But like it's a jokey suggestion that's easy to backpedal from or was harmlessly thrown out, depending on MM's alignment. I don't see Quin imagining his a-bomb of suspicion. It's more like a Hot Fuzz sea mine of suspicion. You can bang on it but it probably won't be going somewhere unless a baddie leans real hard on it and gets himself killed.


Relevant posts:

Spoiler: show

I suspect Golden.

That's someone I've had a negative gut read of for a while. Planning to ISO him, Quin, and maybe a couple others when I get a chance.

^INH says Golden and Quin should be looked at

It was a bad decision to sign up for this game. I have way less time for it than I envisioned. Apologies to everyone and especially to Dom. it was a lazy vote by me. I will try better in future but I cannot promise this. I will check Quin's posts if I have time.

^Snow reduces that to Quin only.

I've been occupied all day with visiting family, but coming in late in the day, catching up, and seeing all these votes on Dom...this is what I see.

Shall I bus Dom?

Of course

Are you admitting to being on a team with Dom?

I'm not sure why... I think it's because he defended sprityo? :shrugs:

and

Well who else would you consider sig, same to you Wilgy?

Daisy's tone here sounds like she is trying to subtly defend Dom and lure players away from voting him. It's like what Quin did with Sprit.

Guess who I'm voting for?


Not Dom.

If Dom is bad, this is strike 2 for you.

I've done pretty well so doing the opposite of Quin. I think I will try again. *voting Dom too*

^Eloh acts like 1 vote against a 13 vote train is an attempt to save Dom

Heh. I just heard you close your laptop. You forgot to actually vote.

*sigh* classic Tasha.

I'm sorry I missed the vote guys, my sister got in tonight for the beginning of a week and half visit. I got sidetracked and missed the poll end.

Sorsha, I was not trying to lure anyone from voting Dom, I was trying to keep things from being a one track lynch and at least get some input on other people, see what some of the late voters might say and consider some other options because I don't know what I think of such a runaway lynch tally...

Linki: Yep that would be why.

I think you mean Eloh, not me!

*facepalm* You're right, I do mean Eloh, I don't know how I mixed that up.

Well, with the way the lynch went, I think I need to look elsewhere, away from you and Quin. Time to change things up, b/c it looks like the baddies might be directing this game atm.

Anyone know who began the Dom suspicion? I know I could look at the first voter, but that's not always the person who lays the groundwork.

@ MM - I was talking to you as you said, "Shall I bus Dom." But now that we find Dom wasn't bad, I guess you aren't his teammate. Why did you make such a post?

^Eloh later admits to not having seen the groundwork for the Dom lynch, which I take to mean she doesn't know the reason for the Dom train.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Sig- Reading your case makes a Dom vote seem sensible.... But just reading his posts without your interpretation doesn't make me want to vote him so I'm kinda meh right now.

Voted for Dom because whatever. I'll try to be around more

Lol okay, Sorsha.

Can you explain why you really voted for Dom?

Why is a train you were like "meh" and "whatever" about better with your vote on it?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Wilgy, Golden, Marco, MP, Zebra, Sorsha

Imo, the vig should target those people first. In whatever order they prefer.

Nothing personal guys, but I doubt more than two of you will manage to catch up before the game is over.

DDL, where are you getting the numbers in your head from? 2/6 of you won't catch up so let's ninja them?

First of all that's a 1/3 gamble for hitting someone who may not catch up, so you aren't hunting with this comment.

DDL, I've noticed a trend of you being obscure and do think you need to be lynched soon.

Snow Dog same thing, but it's only been a single post that directly rubbed me the wrong way. Overall I don't think this is the same civvy Snow Dog I saw in monkey Island. @LC I'd like your opinion on this.

I don't trust Jack. I didn't trust Jack before the Dom thing.

Idk what to think about Epi. A ninja kill would be welcome for purposely being vague.

I just named players I feel are just too inactive in this game and called them out.

You were active at the end of day 2, and that's it. So far you seem like a blank in this game.

I'm okay with killing players who don't provide enough content to be analysed in the thread. But if I can get those players to come out of their caves and participate, that's even better. It got you to reply, so it was probably sucessful.

Day 3 sucked and I suspect one of the reasons is that I took a break from my constant throwing of gasoline into the thread.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Heh. I just heard you close your laptop. You forgot to actually vote.

*sigh* classic Tasha.

I'm sorry I missed the vote guys, my sister got in tonight for the beginning of a week and half visit. I got sidetracked and missed the poll end.

Sorsha, I was not trying to lure anyone from voting Dom, I was trying to keep things from being a one track lynch and at least get some input on other people, see what some of the late voters might say and consider some other options because I don't know what I think of such a runaway lynch tally...

Linki: Yep that would be why.

I think you mean Eloh, not me!

*facepalm* You're right, I do mean Eloh, I don't know how I mixed that up.

Well, with the way the lynch went, I think I need to look elsewhere, away from you and Quin. Time to change things up, b/c it looks like the baddies might be directing this game atm.

Anyone know who began the Dom suspicion? I know I could look at the first voter, but that's not always the person who lays the groundwork.

@ MM - I was talking to you as you said, "Shall I bus Dom." But now that we find Dom wasn't bad, I guess you aren't his teammate. Why did you make such a post?

Sig brought it up. Jack elaborated on it and built a convincing case. I dropped the first vote.

[Long Con]

Hey, Jack, I was looking at sig's posts and I couldn't find the "list of possible Troupe members" he included Quin on. Where did you see that? I must be just missing it, but you didn't include it in your Spoiler area.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

This is probably a tinfoil but I need to post it anyway:

BADDIES (8)

COUNT OLAF'S TROUPE (4) Kill every odd night. Need the civvies and Ghastly Guardians dead to win.
Count Olaf – He is obsessed with the Baudelaire fortune, and will stop at nothing to get it. Olaf is a master of digsuise, so if role checked he will come back as a random civvie. SECRET
There's a number of rolecheckers in play... watch out for this guy.

The Hook-Handed Man – He may discover the identity of a dead player every night. Would be useless if the nightkills weren't janitored... bitches!

The Powder-Faced Women – Their vote counts for two as long as at least one other member of the Troupe votes the same way.

The Person of Indeterminate Gender – This huge androgynous person will block a player every night.

Am I the only one who thinks LC is too happy when he is talking about how powerful the Troupe's roles are?

[Long Con]

Day 3 sucked and I suspect one of the reasons is that I took a break from my constant throwing of gasoline into the thread.

I suspect Christmas holidays had something to do with it as well. But by all means... more arson!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

DDL, I've noticed a trend of you being obscure and do think you need to be lynched soon.

Snow Dog same thing, but it's only been a single post that directly rubbed me the wrong way. Overall I don't think this is the same civvy Snow Dog I saw in monkey Island. @LC I'd like your opinion on this.

Definitely not the same Snow Dog that we saw in Monkey Island. I have already given an opinion on his play:

I am suspicious of Snow Dog because of his drastically different playstyle. He wants to go fast and loose this game, carefree and a bit chaotic. It's a fine choice, and one that a Civ might make to survive longer (because who wants to nightkill the court jester? He's no threat...), but my other feeling is a bit stronger, that he is a baddie that wants to avoid a lynch by acting that way. It's really hard to separate truly suspicious behaviour from fun chaos behaviour. Which would be the point. It's not nearly enough for me to advocate Snow Dog's lynch though... and anyway, I owe him for our last game together, and I want to follow through on that.

A question to everyone: do you think Dom lie-detected Quin as bad, or was he just upset about his lynch and lashing out at the stand-out vote? I can understand the idea that a baddie Quin would vote off the main wagon under normal circumstances (as in: a lynch that had some voting variety), but I'm not sure that Quin's DDL vote warranted that accusation from Dom.

I think Quin just stuck like a sore thumb in that lynch and Dom wanted to throw shit at someone before he went down, so Quin=bad was one of the most obvious conclusions to make.

For all my warring against Quin, I'm actually reading him as civ right now. I just don't think a non-newbie baddie would try that hard to sound controversial. He is begging people to lynch him and he knows it. But if he is a civ, at least it makes sense that he thinks he could be risking his life to take down the bad guy (me).

[Long Con]

Am I the only one who thinks LC is too happy when he is talking about how powerful the Troupe's roles are?

That's pretty tinfoily... I wasn't that happy. Perhaps comparing it to my apparent happiness level when talking about other roles would help?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Am I the only one who thinks LC is too happy when he is talking about how powerful the Troupe's roles are?

That's pretty tinfoily... I wasn't that happy. Perhaps comparing it to my apparent happiness level when talking about other roles would help?

With other roles you are doing regular speculation and strategizing, but here it's almost like you are saying "watch out, civilians!"

[Marmot]

@ MM - I was talking to you as you said, "Shall I bus Dom." But now that we find Dom wasn't bad, I guess you aren't his teammate. Why did you make such a post?

It was directed at Epignosis, who asked if players were bussing Dom.

Sixth, MM comes in and suggests Quin isn't actually suspected so he must be scum imagining things. But like it's a jokey suggestion that's easy to backpedal from or was harmlessly thrown out, depending on MM's alignment. I don't see Quin imagining his a-bomb of suspicion. It's more like a Hot Fuzz sea mine of suspicion. You can bang on it but it probably won't be going somewhere unless a baddie leans real hard on it and gets himself killed.

If I seriously suspect someone, I will seriously say so.

I do not seriously suspect Quin though, not unless Dom's final words have merit.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@LC

This post.

Well my streak of smartness could only last for one phase I guess.

I'll buy what LC is selling here, doesn't make much sense to lie about it.

I'll be looking through the last phase, see who defended Sprit's and why they did. Off the top of my head I remember both Dom and Quin having a negative reaction to my idea, with Dom going so far as to vote for me.

I added MM to this list.

[Marmot]

Hey DF, who killed Scotty on Night 1?

I should have mentioned that. It was the Troupe.

I asked because the Night 2 post said that Esme killed soup. Can we learn which of the Troupe killed Scotty?

Additionally, I would like to visit Dr. Orwell.

[Long Con]

Am I the only one who thinks LC is too happy when he is talking about how powerful the Troupe's roles are?

That's pretty tinfoily... I wasn't that happy. Perhaps comparing it to my apparent happiness level when talking about other roles would help?

With other roles you are doing regular speculation and strategizing, but here it's almost like you are saying "watch out, civilians!"

Well, I WAS saying "watch out, civilians!" Just not with the self-referential and sadistic glee that you seem to be reading into it.

[Long Con]

@LC

This post.

Well my streak of smartness could only last for one phase I guess.

I'll buy what LC is selling here, doesn't make much sense to lie about it.

I'll be looking through the last phase, see who defended Sprit's and why they did. Off the top of my head I remember both Dom and Quin having a negative reaction to my idea, with Dom going so far as to vote for me.

I added MM to this list.

Thanks, Jack. I do agree with sig that the Day 2 vote is ripe for analysis... unlike the Day 3 vote.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Visiting the turtle doc

[DFaraday]

Hey DF, who killed Scotty on Night 1?

I should have mentioned that. It was the Troupe.

I asked because the Night 2 post said that Esme killed soup. Can we learn which of the Troupe killed Scotty?

Additionally, I would like to visit Dr. Orwell.

All Guardian kills are written as Esme carrying out the kill. All Troupe kills are written as Olaf carrying out the kill (though he wasn't mentioned in the Daily Punctilio piece).

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Time to do some work.

There are 13 people who voted for Dom. I'm going to list the most important posts in that lynch. I'll refrain from giving actual reads here, just give possible interpretations to each post.

It all starts with this post:

Well my streak of smartness could only last for one phase I guess.

I'll buy what LC is selling here, doesn't make much sense to lie about it.

I'll be looking through the last phase, see who defended Sprit's and why they did. Off the top of my head I remember both Dom and Quin having a negative reaction to my idea, with Dom going so far as to vote for me.

Not a very conspicuous or assertive post, but puts the ball on the field.

Spoiler: show

Well my streak of smartness could only last for one phase I guess.

I'll buy what LC is selling here, doesn't make much sense to lie about it.

I'll be looking through the last phase, see who defended Sprit's and why they did. Off the top of my head I remember both Dom and Quin having a negative reaction to my idea, with Dom going so far as to vote for me.

Marmot voted for you as well, pointing out the initial sign up from Glor was unenthusiastic and INH pushed the "Sig's assertion is invalid" point. I pointed out that a pattern of one is not a pattern and voted for the other leading candidate.

I wouldn't take disagreeing with you alone to be scummy. I also think that if someone said you were tunneling based on meta that could have easily been wrong and not looking at much else, I wouldn't disagree with them.

Fact of the matter is, Glor/Sp2 was mafia. So if I'm already suspicious of a player, these actions certainly make them look worse.

So who already looks bad from that group? And who looks worst attacking you/defending Glor? I'd say Dom.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 36#p321136
^Calls you out for hedging (disagree) and contradiction (disagree) while saying she (he?) suspects Glor. Saying you suspect someone while voting for the player trying to lynch them? Now that's hedging. That sounds like a fake statement to me designed so Dom can say "I said I suspected Glor" should Glor be lynched and flip mafia.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 05#p320605
^Distancing. Never follows up with these accusations and when an actual train starts, does not get on.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 39#p320239
^Does not want to discuss Glor's difficulties with being honest. Best way to not have your scum teammate that won't lie get lynched? Get people to not discuss your scum teammate that won't lie. Note that several strategic discussions about plays that Snow Dog, DDL and Zebra had made already happened and Dom did not weigh in.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 71#p319671
^During discussion of who Klaus should role check, calls Ishmael a huge threat, even though he isn't. This would benefit the mafia if Klaus followed Dom's suggestion.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 49#p319949
^Backpedals when her post is called suspicious.


Lots of Dom posts I don't like. Not a single one that makes her look like a civ to me.

Then Jack does the hard work, and gets the ball rolling. There is now a legit Dom case in the thread.

I wouldn't remember Dom is in this game if Jack hadn't pointed that out.

Might be a good player to suspect. I'll check it out.

Yeah it seems that most of Dom's content is indie fearmongering, game mechanics discussion, and when he finally starts to talk about players, he keeps stinging Glorf but instead votes for what if Glorf's counterwagon at the time.

I agree with the case. Then I do a quick ISO, and list a few things that pinged me. Most are stuff I just agreed with Jack about.

This is a good post, I agree that Dom looks very suspicious...as a baddie.

LC agrees.

Spoiler: show

So going to do a quick read of Scotty see if anything pops up, go over Sprit's and a few other players.

Oh look! Sprityo's back!

Let's lynch him again!
Surely lightning won't strike twice..

Civ points for scotty oh wait it doesn't matter.

I tried to do a NKA (night kill analysis) but I don't see anything there that would explain a kill, minus the Sprityo thing. Which doesn't matter at this point.

With 15 posts Dom is well within the realm of a low poster. Within these 15 posts I found several troubling things that I'll be linking, even though Jack seems to have beaten me to the punch.

Uhhh

ishmael, given those recent revelations is a huge threat.

This is mechanic talk which is okay, but a good portion of Dom's posts are like this or fluff.

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

LoRab, why are the VFD a bigger thread than Ishmael?

Because of my natural distrust of purely neutral roles, especially when it's a 2 person neutral team that just has to survive to win. You've known me long enough to know how I feel about this (and to know that it's because of how may have once played such a role to win the game for the mafia). Also, they have a block and a protect to use every night.

Ishmael's team has a 50% chance of recruiting each night, and at least early on, it's kind of a crap shoot what roles they get. At the start, it's 13 civs to recruit v 8 baddies v 3 neutral (he can't recruit himself). So, almost even odds of getting a non-civ than a civ. It, in part, depends on who the first successful recruit is.

In all, it may likely have more to do with my innate prejudicial suspicion towards neutral roles than anything else.

I know about this natural distrust.
I thought you'd attribute some level of distrust to Ishamel for this reason as well.

Two mechanic based conversation.

Let me throw this out there and see what people think.

Mathematically, the cult is not much of a threat. Using one of Klaus's auto scum catches on Ishmael would most benefit.....the mafia.

So players expressing extreme unwarranted concern about the cult are somewhat suspicious to me at this point.

I do agree that Klaus might not want to use his check on Ishmael.

This is interesting, seeing how Dom thought the cult was a major threat why wouldn't he want Klaus to search them? However, I don't think this plays into his role, unless he is Ishmael.

I'm making a blanket statement that I trust none of you and will be voting a no-show or low poster. That there are 12/25 people not being civs, a coin flip isn't the worst thing in the world atm

How does one of these statements follow the other?

Well I missed this in my ISO of scotty, but I did notice it here. Dom was agaisnt this idea without coming out 100% agaisnt it, he is also a low poster like Glorf/Sprit who flipped mafia. This could be a reason for Scotty's death and if Dom is mafia I'd bet at least one other member of their team is a low poster.

Hi guys--

I've fallen ill again. I'm hoping to be better by the holidays, but I am very fatigued right now. Forgive me, O Mafia players.

Having just been on a baddie team with Sorsha in Lost Again, I'm not seeing the same thing from her here. I am leaning civ on her at the moment.

Do we think this logic holds?
I don't.
Go read Sorsha in Lost Again and tell me if you really think that matters in comparison to this game.
Four options:
-SD and Sorsha are baddies together
-SD and Sorsha are civvies together.
-SD and Sorsha are on opposing sides.
-indys involved

I voted sprityo to break the tie between him and DDL. I didn't get a chance to look at sprityo, nor DDL for that matter. But y'all left me to break a tie, so

Here's a list of players who missed the vote (including sprityo).

• Dom
  DrWilgy
  Elohcin
  Epignosis
  Glorfindel
  LoRab
  Marco
  Nachomamma8
  soup
  sprityo

I would like to point out (for the record) my friend that I did not 'miss' the vote. I deliberately withheld mine. I was faced with a choice between two players of which I was unwilling to support either.

...this is not true. You had plenty of other options.

And there you go... vindicated again!

Smug doesn't fit you.
Which baddie team are you on?

So the first part isn't super interesting, but the last portion of this post is. If Dom suspected Glorf of being on a mafia team for one behavioral based post, why did he then attack and vote for me when I made the same type of case with more information attached? I think this is an attempt at distancing. Also hope you feel better.

I don't see the merit in the discussion.

This is probably one of the most eyebrow raising posts of Dom's.
He doesn't see the merit in discussing Glorf's behavior surrounding refusing to claim good or bad. This is an attempt to shift the conversation and defend Glorf from being lynched based on meta reasoning, even though he suspected Glorf?

hm Glorf replaced out, that is interesting.

What do you make of it?
:

I think it could mean Sprityo is mafia, in fact I'd be willing to lynch on it. Glorf was alreayd a suspect of mine, for not giving reads not talking much and a general gut read. Two things to know about Glorf is he hates lying, even in a game he won't do it and he hates being mafia. His refusal to answer the good/bad question was a tip off, he wouldn't lie about it, he'd just not say it either way. I'm thinking his BTSC mates told him that. He went with it, but hated it and asked to be replaced. Since even if he was bad, he wouldn't want to let his team down. So he replaced out since he couldn't be a mafia member and he did this soon enough that most people wouldn't consider it.

He attempted to do the same thing in Star wars mafia when he was bad as well.

So I'm voting there and I'll be voting there now, since I am 80% sure Sprityo 2.0/Glorf are mafia and that is why Glorf acted the way he did day 1 and was replaced.

I'm feeling good about the SDs and Golden. I won't be lynching Jack today since he is a civ lean, or Epi/LC since I need time to read them.
I never saw the case on MM so he won't get my vote either.

So Glorf replacing out is closely correlated with him being a baddie?

I would say yes there is a correlation.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... ?f=2&t=769

Take a look at Star Wars mafia, Glorfs first game here, he subbed out after awhile as mafia there as well. Though I will admit that was in part due to being mafia and being completely overwhelmed, while I don't think i've ever seen a civ Glorf sub out, not even when he is being harassed and bothered.

Finally I'd say im being replaced just assured me of my read, I'd say I can gut read some players rather well, Glorf being one of them and he was pinging me from his first post. Furthermore when he wouldn't give me reads, something he does often regardless of alignment, but much more as mafia.

Voting sig for this contradiction despite me suspecting glorf.
Hedging.
Not making assertive claims.

Now this post is why I think he's a teammate of Glorf. He votes for me because I was hedging and not making assertive claims? Based all around one sentence in one of my post. At this time it tied me with Sprityo, so not only did he tie the vote, but he also attempted to make me and my case seem disingenuous. I'd also say keep in mind if Dom was mafia he might have thought sprityo would vote for me, which would have pushed me ahead of him by two votes, due to his power. This claim also doesn't make much sense since I came into the thread guns ablazing agaisnt Glorf and was one of the first votes.
He also says he is suspicious of Glorf, yet votes for the player pushing Glorf and doesn't mention if there's any merits in my case

This as well as Dom not wanting to discuses Glorf's meta/refusal to claim and saying he was suspecting Glorf yet not taking my case into consideration looks bad. I'd GTH Dom as bad and put him as likely scum.

Sig does an even more detailed ISO on Dom. The plot thickens.

This will sound naturally suspicious coming from someone like me ( ) but I say there is a large number of people ruled out for this phase.

Rather than focus on sprityo's team, I would like to have a crack at the other. That's a good deal harder than finding teammates. So there's where my focus will be.

If there's no advancement to be had on that front, then fine lynch a sprityo teammate. I won't complain.

I agree that Dom is bad, by the way.

In fact, I'd argue that Dom is bad but on the other team. Not sprityo's.

I don't see Dom taking that approach with Glorfindel if they are on a team is all. I think he would absolutely do that if he were on the opposite team.

Aside from all of that, Dom has been bad a lot lately, and what he's been doing is right in line with what he's been doing.

Interesting series of posts. Epi doesn't agree with the idea that Dom is a sprit teammate, and doesn't want to hunt sprit teammates at that point, but thinks Dom is bad anyway, for meta reasons.

Well let's do it then.

*votes Dom*

I decide what this case lacks is pressure. FIRST VOTE.

There is another game going on. Dom did not post at all Day 3, and was lynched Day 4. He flipped mafia.

Coincidentally here, he hasn't posted since Sunday (early Day 2). I suppose he could be busy, but the similarity holds.

MM suspects Dom with a weird analogy.

I voted Dom as well.

Less worried about a lack of posts and more worried about what's in the posts that Dom has made.

SECOND VOTE

I am also voting for Dom, I think it was a very good case made against him in light of the sprityo/Glorf flip...as a baddie.

THIRD VOTE

I brought it up first.

Also Dom

I do bet he is a troupe though not a guardian.

Sig claims the paternity, and drops the FOURTH VOTE.

Skimmed quickly. Still haven't read previous thread stuff. I'd like to but I might not get the chance to any time soon.

The Dom case seems solid to me. It's ironic that I'm plopping my vote there with relative confidence after seeing everyone else do so, but clearly I'm limited by time and taking a different approach this game. I'll try to be back to my old self soon.

He is too busy to give elaborate opinions, but he agrees with the case, so FIFTH VOTE.

Really busy today. The Dom wagon looks really solid based on JoH's and sig's posts, so that is where I will vote.

Same as MP. SIXTH VOTE.

Too late for me to eread everything. I am desperafe to get to bed so either i trust the wagon and vote Dom or vote myself

Same as above. SEVENTH VOTE.

Apologies, I went on holiday and I'm just not getting time to catch up.

Not sure what the deal is with Dom, but it's odd to see such a runaway. Might mean info is out there.

I won't vote: sig, ddl, daisy, mp, jack, nacho.

I will do my best to catch up but it won't be before the lynch. I'll follow the crowd and vote Dom.

This one has no idea why Dom is being lynched but looks like there are cops involved (there aren't) so he'll help. EIGHT VOTE.

I'm adding myself to the chorus of apologies because getting back on track after holiday sucks bunches; I might have a little time to sneak around in the morning but am unbelievably relieved to see Dom consensus although I don't have the time to read/understand why.

Same as Golden. He sees consensus and believes that means civvies caught a baddie. NINTH VOTE.

I'm adding myself to the chorus of apologies because getting back on track after holiday sucks bunches; I might have a little time to sneak around in the morning but am unbelievably relieved to see Dom consensus although I don't have the time to read/understand why.

I'm in the same boat.

Plus other games have distracted me... as a baddie.

Linki: I appreciate the support Golden.

Same as above. TENTH VOTE.

I don't feel like this Day was used effectively, but I can't begrudge anybody that. I'm voting Dom.

He explained his suspicion ages ago, but better vote now than never. ELEVENTH VOTE.

I don't feel like this Day was used effectively, but I can't begrudge anybody that. I'm voting Dom.

uh yeah sure same

Zebra shows up out of nowhere with the TWELFTH VOTE

Voted for Dom because whatever. I'll try to be around more

Just like the series has 13 books with 13 chapters in each one (except for one book), Dom's fate is sealed by 13 votes. A case that started with two walls of text finishes with a simple remark:

"whatever".

THIRTEENTH VOTE

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'll make individual interpretatons to the stuff above who-knowns-when but for now I'll just leave it here. You interpret those votes however you want. What I can say is, there are A LOT of crappy votes. Which is one of the things that prompted to make that ninja request earlier today.

There is scum in this Dom lynch. Pointing it out is the challenge though. It could be among the crappy votes, but also in the informed votes at the start, if you can point that out.

[Sorsha]

Sig- Reading your case makes a Dom vote seem sensible.... But just reading his posts without your interpretation doesn't make me want to vote him so I'm kinda meh right now.

Voted for Dom because whatever. I'll try to be around more

Lol okay, Sorsha.

Can you explain why you really voted for Dom?

Why is a train you were like "meh" and "whatever" about better with your vote on it?

Because I'm a lazy sheep

[Golden]

I cannot see how anyone such as epi could legitimately associate my quietness with me being bad. I wouldn't mind if he died. His suspicion of me shouldn't be trusted.

His suspicion of you doesn't come from you being quiet though, it was from your suspicion of Soneji. You've got that part incorrect.

It doesn't matter. My quietness is all the evidence he should need that I am not bad.

I would happily have voted soneji again yesterday, but no one else ever does. Perhaps I'll vote epi instead...

I'll take back the bit about his sprit vote, though, since it proved correct - but I did not like anyone's sprit vote at that time. It just so happened that my chief suspect was among them.

[Golden]

@Golden, when you catch up again.

Merry christmas all.

I haven't read this day phase yet, so maybe Soneji has redeemed himself... but the sprit vote doesn't make him look any better to me.

Voting soneji, I look forward to my catch up on the other side of Christmas!

When you get back, could you explain why you got the impression Soneji redeemed himself while you haven't read any of the day phase.

I don't know of any reason that soneji has redeemed himself.

[Golden]

Wilgy, Golden, Marco, MP, Zebra, Sorsha

Imo, the vig should target those people first. In whatever order they prefer.

Nothing personal guys, but I doubt more than two of you will manage to catch up before the game is over.

No offence, but piss off with all the policy stuff. How long have you known me ddl? What could possibly lead you to believe I won't catch up? I'm being entirely contributory and there is plenty of content to read me on at face value.

On the other hand, there are some players you didn't list (epi for instance) who has acknowledged there is a large chunk of the game he didn't read. Why don't you include him? Because he meets your arbitrary definition of contribution? Guess what - I haven't missed a vote. You can't say the same of many people you didn't list.

Your policy reasons for having people die will cost the civs the game. No vig should follow your arbitrary list.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

What could possibly lead you to believe I won't catch up?

I'm waiting to see it.

[Golden]

What could possibly lead you to believe I won't catch up?

I'm waiting to see it.

That's not good enough.

[Golden]

Why aren't you waiting to see it from epi? It's makework - makes you 'look better', but it lacks thought.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

What could possibly lead you to believe I won't catch up?

I'm waiting to see it.

That's not good enough.

Your contribution to yesterday's lynch is not good enough.

I won't blame you for being inactive. But my job as a civvie is to judge you on that and eliminate you if you fail to be an useful civ.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Why aren't you waiting to see it from epi? It's makework - makes you 'look better', but it lacks thought.

He's posting reads on a bunch of people, and has a good enough understanding of the game's framework. He had a plan for what to do yesterday. That's leaps above "I don't know why people are voting for Dom but they probably know something so I'll follow".

[Golden]

What could possibly lead you to believe I won't catch up?

I'm waiting to see it.

That's not good enough.

Your contribution to yesterday's lynch is not good enough.

I won't blame you for being inactive. But my job as a civvie is to judge you on that and eliminate you if you fail to be an useful civ.

No. If you are civ, your job is to eliminate the bad guys, not people you judge to be not useful.

My vote yesterday could not have changed the outcome in the slightest.

And - as I said - I'm not inactive and you are using inconsistent standards to judge people. You vanished for two days (and missed a vote?) should we vig you? I've never vanished for even 24 hours nor missed a vote...

[Golden]

Why aren't you waiting to see it from epi? It's makework - makes you 'look better', but it lacks thought.

He's posting reads on a bunch of people, and has a good enough understanding of the game's framework. He had a plan for what to do yesterday. That's leaps above "I don't know why people are voting for Dom but they probably know something so I'll follow".

I also gave reads on a bunch of people in the very post I voted for Dom. Next argument...

None of them stack up ddl. You aren't judging me on anything more than the most superficial analysis of my content and, added to that, excluding all context of the fact you know me well enough to know I'll catch up. Besides, you've now essentially admitted it's not about who 'catches up' but just who is present in the moment... you can't even stick to a story.

I don't like your angles at all. Like I say, they are policy and makework. They aren't even reads. Just a list of who you deem inactive. King ddl. When you're up to it, I have a lot more than one post for you to analyse...

[Golden]

By the way, I have 85 posts. Soneji has 30 - any reason he's omitted from your list?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Sig- Reading your case makes a Dom vote seem sensible.... But just reading his posts without your interpretation doesn't make me want to vote him so I'm kinda meh right now.

Voted for Dom because whatever. I'll try to be around more

Lol okay, Sorsha.

Can you explain why you really voted for Dom?

Why is a train you were like "meh" and "whatever" about better with your vote on it?

Because I'm a lazy sheep

"Sheep" eh?

[Quin]

This game is giving me flash backs to Turf Wars.

We're still doing better then that game.

I mean technically we're only two civs down, one mafia member, then another three unknowns. So I'd say we're doing pretty good. Also who knows maybe I'll have another god like meta/gut read I can talk about next phase.

If not? Then I've got no idea who we should lynch.

I was more-so referring to the atomic bomb of suspicion I'm anticipating coming into the next day phase

I don't think you're all that suspicious. Why do you think you're suspicious? Guilty conscience?

When the lie detector goes down screaming that I'm bad, one has to wonder about the implication that that's going to have one people's read of me.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

By the way, I have 85 posts. Soneji has 30 - any reason he's omitted from your list?

Post count is not the criteria.

You were super active on day 1. Then you vanished. I don't know when you''d come back. I don't know if you'd come back. I listed the people I saw as missing during d3, and that's it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Hey Quin

Sorry for saying I'd ignore you. I realized that's a jerk thing to do. No point in that.

Please link three posts from you/anyone else you want me to respond. No more than that. I will not respond everything people asked me in the entire game, don't bother.

[Golden]

The easy route doesn't allow you to paint people as scum. For all the angles Zebra expects DDL and Jack to have considered, at a time when no decision or claim can even be close to final, she overlooks angles herself like culture clash and approaches their statements as definitive in terms of Snow Dog being their day one lynch.

I'll be voting Zebra for now.

Their statements were incredibly definitive. DDL said Snow Dog should either be policy lynched if not lying or, if lying, there was a 99% chance of being bad.

JoH listed three possibilities, truthful scum, truthful town, lying scum, but did not consider lying town. That's not 'all the angles zebra expects them to consider'. It was one - and a pretty blatant one at that. It's not hard to look at that list and see JoH as potentially deliberately not considering one option.

Zebra did not (although others did) expect them to consider the 'it's just day zero banter, referencing monkey island' angle, which might be what you would call 'culture clash'. By the way, DDL has been at this site nearly as long as me, and he's an ambassador, so I hardly think his views can be construed as 'culture clash'. He knows what to expect.

And in all of that, I did not see zebra rushing to call either Jack or DDL as scum. She just engaged them in a dialogue about why their perspective was limiting (which it was). I haven't really got a sense of how firmly Jack or DDL have stuck to their guns yet since I haven't finished a catchup, but I'd hope that they'd listen to the many people who (correctly) identified that Snow Dog was referencing Monkey Island.

Also, votes are permanent, so forget 'for now'... you voted zebra.

This is the most suspicious thing I've seen. It's incredibly misrepresentative of what occurred, and it's just a bizarre vote, almost like 'I'm voting zebra because I also experience culture clash at this site, and zebra doesn't seem to consider that'. I'm going to be strongly considering a vote for soneji.

The fact I'm a veteran in this site doesn't mean you should expect me to abandon my opinions and just accept whatever the meta here is. I will protest against what I think is bad play whenever I see it.

And Zebra said I was her first suspect at the time.

Soneji is voting Zebra because he thinks her opinion is bullshit, and you are doing that thing where you divide the players of the site in two groups depending on whether they agree with you or not (the former being civ, and the later being bad). Protip: it doesn't work. The last time I saw you do it you left a trail of lynched civvies behind your arrogance.

This is a steaming hunk of bullsuit. You pursued snow dog over a joke and, if anyone ever bothers to look at my day one iso of soneji, he was all over the place and his vote for zebra couldn't be tied down to 'he thinks her opinion is bullshit'...

And then you go defending soneji for voting someone for 'thinking their opinion is bullshit' while attacking me for, apparently, deciding people are bad because I disagree with their opinions (protip- if that's what I was doing I would have been voting for you or jack on that day, instead I said jack looks town and admitted I would have voted sprit ahead of you...)

You know what I think? I think soneji was defending a teammate. You. I find it surprising that the first thing I find when I start catching up is you engaging with my content! And what's more, misrepresenting me. And it just happens to align with just what I thought I was seeing in current you...

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@Golden

Yes I'm being super arbitrary. So? It's how the game works. If the vig doesn't want to listen to me, it's his choice. But if I were the vig, I'd be targetting first the inactive ones, because they are the ones I can't read.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Oh you are finally reading those posts. That's cool.

[Quin]

DDL, I've noticed a trend of you being obscure and do think you need to be lynched soon.

Snow Dog same thing, but it's only been a single post that directly rubbed me the wrong way. Overall I don't think this is the same civvy Snow Dog I saw in monkey Island. @LC I'd like your opinion on this.

Definitely not the same Snow Dog that we saw in Monkey Island. I have already given an opinion on his play:

I am suspicious of Snow Dog because of his drastically different playstyle. He wants to go fast and loose this game, carefree and a bit chaotic. It's a fine choice, and one that a Civ might make to survive longer (because who wants to nightkill the court jester? He's no threat...), but my other feeling is a bit stronger, that he is a baddie that wants to avoid a lynch by acting that way. It's really hard to separate truly suspicious behaviour from fun chaos behaviour. Which would be the point. It's not nearly enough for me to advocate Snow Dog's lynch though... and anyway, I owe him for our last game together, and I want to follow through on that.

A question to everyone: do you think Dom lie-detected Quin as bad, or was he just upset about his lynch and lashing out at the stand-out vote? I can understand the idea that a baddie Quin would vote off the main wagon under normal circumstances (as in: a lynch that had some voting variety), but I'm not sure that Quin's DDL vote warranted that accusation from Dom.

If you have the time, I'd recommend you go through my posts and see if you can pick out anything that Dom could have checked that would incriminate me. I don't think you'd be able to. As for my voting off the main wagons - that's just me. As a civ, I did it in Red vs Blue, and as a baddie, I did it in Mad Max. It's as 3J calls it 'a convenient meta'.

[Golden]

By the way, I have 85 posts. Soneji has 30 - any reason he's omitted from your list?

Post count is not the criteria.

You were super active on day 1. Then you vanished. I don't know when you''d come back. I don't know if you'd come back. I listed the people I saw as missing during d3, and that's it.

Bingo. You limited your criteria to a single day and then claimed those 6 people wouldn't catch up and should be bugged... despite knowing the time of year the day fell on. Ignoring the fact others (including you) missed just the same previously in this game. Now tell me how I should take that as genuine thought?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

By the way, I have 85 posts. Soneji has 30 - any reason he's omitted from your list?

Post count is not the criteria.

You were super active on day 1. Then you vanished. I don't know when you''d come back. I don't know if you'd come back. I listed the people I saw as missing during d3, and that's it.

Bingo. You limited your criteria to a single day and then claimed those 6 people wouldn't catch up and should be bugged... despite knowing the time of year the day fell on. Ignoring the fact others (including you) missed just the same previously in this game. Now tell me how I should take that as genuine thought?

I stand by what I said. I don't think most players in that list will become active anytime soon. Some might, but I made the list wider in order to call them all out.

It's working. Look at who is finally reading the stuff I said last week.

[Golden]

@Golden

Yes I'm being super arbitrary. So? It's how the game works. If the vig doesn't want to listen to me, it's his choice. But if I were the vig, I'd be targetting first the inactive ones, because they are the ones I can't read.

No... still bullshitting. People who don't post much in a single day aren't inactive. Did not the vig already target either soup or lorab? Genuine inactives? I see your lost much more as directing attention on to who you decide is inactive. It takes a certain kind of hypocrisy to miss an entire day but then label others who do the same inactive.

And I do not agree that 'arbitrage' is the way to catch baddies.

[Golden]

By the way, I have 85 posts. Soneji has 30 - any reason he's omitted from your list?

Post count is not the criteria.

You were super active on day 1. Then you vanished. I don't know when you''d come back. I don't know if you'd come back. I listed the people I saw as missing during d3, and that's it.

Bingo. You limited your criteria to a single day and then claimed those 6 people wouldn't catch up and should be bugged... despite knowing the time of year the day fell on. Ignoring the fact others (including you) missed just the same previously in this game. Now tell me how I should take that as genuine thought?

I stand by what I said. I don't think most players in that list will become active anytime soon. Some might, but I made the list wider in order to call them all out.

It's working. Look at who is finally reading the stuff I said last week.

Wow. And you call me arrogant!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

There is no such a thing as a "way to catch baddies".

We all do what we each think works.

And I think killing people who are harder to read works.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

And feel free to call me an hypocrite if you want. I won't deny.

I feel like saying what I think people are doing wrong is more productive than sataying silent for the sake of not being an hypocrite.

[Quin]

Hey Quin

Sorry for saying I'd ignore you. I realized that's a jerk thing to do. No point in that.

Please link three posts from you/anyone else you want me to respond. No more than that. I will not respond everything people asked me in the entire game, don't bother.

I'll give you some stuff to talk about later.






And I'm gonna go visit the creepy Doctor (not Wilgy)

[Golden]

I'm still reading Day 1 and I already want to punch Golden in the face. That's a good sign, he's probably a civ.

You seemed to have a read on me fine back then. Why does me being away a day make me hard to read?

[Golden]

ill visit creepy doctor as well

[Golden]

And feel free to call me an hypocrite if you want. I won't deny.

I feel like saying what I think people are doing wrong is more productive than sataying silent for the sake of not being an hypocrite.

Half a peanut on its deathbed could call out people for being inactive.

Either you're right, in which case they never read your post and you make no difference, or you're wrong, but you claim some moral victory like you just did with me.

I don't trust your motives.

[Golden]

The easy route doesn't allow you to paint people as scum. For all the angles Zebra expects DDL and Jack to have considered, at a time when no decision or claim can even be close to final, she overlooks angles herself like culture clash and approaches their statements as definitive in terms of Snow Dog being their day one lynch.

I'll be voting Zebra for now.

Their statements were incredibly definitive. DDL said Snow Dog should either be policy lynched if not lying or, if lying, there was a 99% chance of being bad.

JoH listed three possibilities, truthful scum, truthful town, lying scum, but did not consider lying town. That's not 'all the angles zebra expects them to consider'. It was one - and a pretty blatant one at that. It's not hard to look at that list and see JoH as potentially deliberately not considering one option.

Zebra did not (although others did) expect them to consider the 'it's just day zero banter, referencing monkey island' angle, which might be what you would call 'culture clash'. By the way, DDL has been at this site nearly as long as me, and he's an ambassador, so I hardly think his views can be construed as 'culture clash'. He knows what to expect.

And in all of that, I did not see zebra rushing to call either Jack or DDL as scum. She just engaged them in a dialogue about why their perspective was limiting (which it was). I haven't really got a sense of how firmly Jack or DDL have stuck to their guns yet since I haven't finished a catchup, but I'd hope that they'd listen to the many people who (correctly) identified that Snow Dog was referencing Monkey Island.

Also, votes are permanent, so forget 'for now'... you voted zebra.

This is the most suspicious thing I've seen. It's incredibly misrepresentative of what occurred, and it's just a bizarre vote, almost like 'I'm voting zebra because I also experience culture clash at this site, and zebra doesn't seem to consider that'. I'm going to be strongly considering a vote for soneji.

The fact I'm a veteran in this site doesn't mean you should expect me to abandon my opinions and just accept whatever the meta here is. I will protest against what I think is bad play whenever I see it.

And Zebra said I was her first suspect at the time.

Soneji is voting Zebra because he thinks her opinion is bullshit, and you are doing that thing where you divide the players of the site in two groups depending on whether they agree with you or not (the former being civ, and the later being bad). Protip: it doesn't work. The last time I saw you do it you left a trail of lynched civvies behind your arrogance.

100% agree with this.

I've just pointed out errors in it. Care to reconsider your 100% agreement?