Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 5]
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:19 pm
Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
You ain't just whistling Dixie, brother.WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:32 amI'm curious what your thought process is, and tbh I keep forgetting you're in the game because I haven't seen anyone from West Facility mention having a read on you.WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:30 am@Ricochet i know it's been a while since you last popped in, but when you catch up, I'd like to hear your take on the current wagons.
This interaction is a bit strange. There's a lot in here, but WindwardAway focuses on the one bit about falcon not saying who is good (even though falcon named me and LC).WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:41 pmFalcon hasn't shared any townreads?Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.
Wagons
Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.
Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.
So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon
falcon
West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment
Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.
Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.
tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply
@falcon45ca is this true?
And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.
I don't necessarily believe there's a faker- a role copier is something I've implemented in the past.WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:26 pm why are there two people with supposedly the same post restriction? sig and ricochet
could be one of them faking it, i guess
I'd call teammate compatibility there but low.WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:17 pm I feel like cape isn't solving with the intent to root out the other mafia team, and not to win the game for town. I think it's very likely his confidence in his reads comes from knowing who he's not teamed with.
And I don't remember him mentioning Ricochet much before suddenly putting them in townreads? I'll try to check again but my flight is boarding soon.
I'm going to move my vote just in case I don't make it back again before eod.
[VOTE: Cape90] aubergine
Ricochet wanted falcon over me/Monroe.Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.
Wagons
Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.
Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.
So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon
falcon
West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment
Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.
Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.
tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply
This is a lot. I'll just mirror the headings.Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 2:15 pm Anyway, dumping the first batch.
Wagoners*
* given the VC at the time of submitting this
NB: not sure the poll reflects the vote chronology as well, but I'll just roll with the names as they appear
falcon
Monroe
-- seems to have parked on falcon just now, despite all their posts being bark back at Epignosis. I suppose it counts as self-pres?
-- just to add to their read, minus point for their recent post aimed at Epignosis, tone still aggro defensive and not the most respectable wording towards Epignosis, either
sig
pyxxy connection: labelled it as unlikely
much of what I've noted down from sig's activity is in fact case-making on falcon, arguments being that falcon is within wolf range and that the Western night kills could show pattern of clean-up in his aid. also admits mindmeld with leetic on the night kills angle. seems fine
Master Radishes
-- for someone from East, therefore info-less on falcon, vote drop was sudden, without hint of inquiry or reading into others' takes and a bit of "nuh-uh" retort to falcon calling it opportunistic (even prodding him to vote back). not ideal elements. later more elaborate, dismissing falcon's "exasperation" as outweighed by poor tone, something I do meld with.
-- had a good impression of him otherwise - active in developing reads and opinionated on enough players and events - but this on its own is a mixed bag
Windward
-- noted her more of a Lemon wagoner for much of D3; falcon switch comes down to disliking falcon's "opportunism" rebuttal at Radishes, it seems. bit cheeky to word it as "happy to join the opportunistic train". later camps reactive attitude, in principle, towards mafia lean. again, had more interest in others, but I can see how the view on falcon might have soured in time and treat the gameplay as wolf-likely
-- activity-wise, I'd rate Windward towny. ample material, not gonna develop full read at this time.
Long Con
pyxxy connection: labelled him sussworthy
-- it is accurate that LC has suss on falcon throughout West period
-- it is also accurate that his waffle on falcon came from trusting Abigail's tone/meta read, true both during West time and during D3 here
-- as far as coming back on falcon wagon, late on seems to make a read - not agreeing with his towning claim, finding his counter-suspicions omgusey. think it's adequate
-- didn't note down any pings from LC today tbh, though overall I find him a bit puzzling. his D3 is probably the better-looking phase of his activity thus far, engaged and opinionated more on the topics, but at times I also he's tagteaming others (much "starting to see this" responses), quite the buddy dynamic with Epignosis, lighthearted banter and focused replies in equal measures. ech, probably wouldn't focus on deciphering this for now
leetic
pyxxy connection: labeled him unlikely
-- pretty much wagons falcon for the nightkill angle; dismisses falcon's defense on that as wifom; don't recall him tackling any other point about falcon
-- really conflicted about leetic overall: was my topwolf pick and vote D1, the aggro-tone was prevalent; Abigail (in West) and Dizzy (in here) mentioned that this is normal leetic; then D2 he shifts into a Pyxxy Scientist (ISO'ing interactions), drop most of the prod and poke tone, a solving attitude I shared and in turned like;
-- now? I'm seeing way less of D2. announced ISOs from West D2, did not deliver; had to defend a bit re: gifting a player who flipped wolf, don't know if that's a topic of suss. informed the merged group of his Pyxxy Science findings, that's fair. couple more reads (Nanook for instance), no definitive wording. still, really slowed down performance. puzzling.
DrWilgy
-- seems to base and bank his falcon vote on lack of townspewing alone. I'd label this a tad narrowing
-- no developed read on his activity atm. word that came to mind, upon quick scroll, was "scrambled". perhaps within expectations.
I will not squeeze you and put you in my cocktail, that's for sure.Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:58 pmI have passed my expiry date and I'm no longer safe to consume
Sloonei's probs not aligned
squinty squint at nutella (just a little)
what does this mean? like the people on my wagon are OK and don't need to be pursued?Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:22 pm I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.
Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.
this looks unaligned for EpignosisRicochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:32 pm Epignosis wrt Delta pauses me a lot toDay.
He was chief detective on case-making Delta D2 wrt pyxxy interactions (lifelining him intermittently and starting what proved pyxxy's counterwagon chance). The thing about too many townreads was also a point.
Then the Delta wagon fizzled through.
And now Epignosis comes into the merge with just that one point about the townreads.
Davos pretty unaligned tooRicochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:51 pm I'm le tired.
I didn't even process Delta toDay.
Only note I had was that they noted Davos's drive-by vote on Lemon. No input.
Delta was my main pyxxy teammate profile, though. In that regard, I melded with Epig's D2 case. Signs of lifelining pyxxy into playing better and creating a cushion for a feasible counterwagon, till it proved too late. Could be.
Ohhhh, is that what it was? I thought scrappy just dug a hole with a vig in it that killed them lol
Isn't that like, all the remaining lowposters from East Facility? LolLemonfairy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:12 pm I'm thinking DM/Wilgy/Nanook as my top SRs
DM/Nanook on one team
Wilgy on the other
only there's a wrench here because DM and Nanook have just been sitting on my wagon for the last 2 days and I don't think partners would do that
it'd be too obvious
Time to go through their last substantial posts before the emoji-posting started, lol
Yeah I gotta agree with this, it would be a bit disproportionate to have so many mafia in West unless most of East was 3ps or something lol. And I doubt that.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:07 am Ok. I’m taking everyone from my half as cleared until future notice. Everyone else should do the same. I am not claiming this as a deontological rule of “trying to solve games” but look if the thread gets split (as it was) you don’t put six wolves in one half and two in the other. I’m not claiming it’s 4 and 4 or anything but at this point the probability is too significant.
I went through his (very short) ISO and I think it's entirely plausible he's paired with Rico, because he mentions once that he has Rico in his PoE and then never does anything about it. Like there are a lot of names there that Nook doesn't do much about. He did say he would tunnel Dizzy and he voted there, but that vote never caught on, so it would make sense that his team would kill Dizzy because they couldn't mislunch him.
Did I write that coherently? I feel like I missed a sentence somewhere.WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:27 amI went through his (very short) ISO and I think it's entirely plausible he's paired with Rico, because he mentions once that he has Rico in his PoE and then never does anything about it. Like there are a lot of names there that Nook doesn't do much about. He did say he would tunnel Dizzy and he voted there, but that vote never caught on, so it would make sense that his team would kill Dizzy because they couldn't mislunch him.
I rather liked how they put in some solving effort earlier, but it seemed like it was specifically once they were under a lot of pressure to do so, and then once the pressure was off, they ramped down their engagement again. I think they're also a reasonable wagon today.
Which are?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:37 am I think there's a chance Nanook is town but it's for stupid raisins.
I have reason to believe otherwiseMaster Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:37 am I think there's a chance Nanook is town but it's for stupid raisins.
But we've had so many double kill nights. You think we have an unlimited town vig? And in addition to that, if Abbi and Rico were both mafia team kills, that the town vig never hit anyone who wasn't town?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 4:10 am N3 was clearly Arbiter kill on Abi (a Landlord). Sabi was never a MK and so was something else.
N4 was probably a Landlord kill on Rico (an Arbiter). I don't get why a town vig kills Rico. So Dizzy was someone else, probably a townie with a personal tinfoil on Dizzy. Off the top of my head if I think of who might make that kill...
The corresponding game would be "Smalltown Circus"WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:27 amI'm guessing that one of the answers is where the original song is sung, so...
A circus ring? @Scotty
DING DING DINGWindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:35 amThe corresponding game would be "Smalltown Circus"WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:27 amI'm guessing that one of the answers is where the original song is sung, so...
A circus ring? @Scotty