Buckets: War of the GOATs [END]

[Wiml]

Meh i think you're shielding one too, so

Guess we'll find out

Let's pretend illario is an IC. Who am I misclearing here?

Remind me who you're clearing

For the sake of discussion let's just say that I'm lock clearing everyone who isn't in my active PoE.

So alexa, Esooa, LC, Alison, TSP.

Where are the wolves in that list?

Alison or lime

Maybe tsp, dependent on ilario's flip

Tbf I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if there was a wolf in those three names, particularly because I no longer have a reason to TR Alison as strongly and her attempt at a push on me felt like a stretch.

TSP if illario is town? Do you have any familiarity with him and his meta?

Also seriously please explain why you think blade is town here lol. I'm usually not bad at reading him but I'm not seeing it here tbh.

With tsp? Yes, lots. It rarely helps.

I'm good at reading blade idk what to tell you. He has townie drive, is that something that'll convince you?

Thanks. Most importantly: does TSP ever slank like this as a wolf in his normal wolf games? If no, do you think he'd be capable of taking a step back this game if he had a sufficiently strong partner? I talked about my thoughts on that earlier but I'm interested in hearing what you think with actual experience playing with him lol.

As for blade, not really tbh. Do you have any thoughts on him claiming that I haven't towntold yet but then sort of rolling that back and saying that I hadn't done anything town indicative yet instead? (After I called him out because I knew he had no real town tells on me and was pushing that in bad faith).

[Esooa]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

why

I dunno I'm getting ready to go to a bar for the first time. Maybe I'll say later

[alexa]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

Are you sure about that?

i wouldn't sheep esooa's read on transcend FYI.

[Esooa]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

Are you sure about that?

i wouldn't sheep esooa's read on transcend FYI.

I've caught him as wolf every time he's been one

[Lime Coke]

I hate when I'm waiting for the (1) on the thread and it goes to another page and it never notifies me.

[Wiml]

This game is draining AF.

[alexa]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

Are you sure about that?

i wouldn't sheep esooa's read on transcend FYI.

I've caught him as wolf every time he's been one

i was literally in a game w/you where you were hard defending him at EOD (mountanado)

and in MCM you were one of the few people considering worlds where he was town d1

[Lime Coke]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

Are you sure about that?

i wouldn't sheep esooa's read on transcend FYI.

I've caught him as wolf every time he's been one

Well now's your chance to go undefeated and catch him again.

[Esooa]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

Are you sure about that?

i wouldn't sheep esooa's read on transcend FYI.

I've caught him as wolf every time he's been one

i was literally in a game w/you where you were hard defending him at EOD (mountanado)

and in MCM you were one of the few people considering worlds where he was town d1

honestly I don't know what mountainado is but the second line is really stupid. I don't care to talk about it though

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Nanook, I had the instant urge to counter what you said because I don't remember you explaining your read on Matt besides volume cleared and because of my ADHD, but I forced myself to spot-check your ISO and I still don't see anything besides this -

-refuses to explain read on Transcend
-wolfreads ilario

content bad nanook

I don't really do cases

you don't need to case someone to explain a read

What is there to explain, he has a huge number of posts and enough of them are townie that he's probably just town

Its not a complicated read and tbh idk how it isn't the prevailing thought

having a huge number of posts is completely NAI for him

and which one's of them are incredibly towny?

Idk that any of them are incredibly towny on their own, but there's a bunch that are somewhere between townie and kinda townie, and collectively that's enough for me to call him town

Considering Matt doesn't have volume tells (self-admitted and confirmed by multiple people who know him) I don't see any other reasoning? I don't get why you're just outright ignoring that

I didn't explain it at the time, no. So what? Do you think me saying now "yeah I think trans had a really strong opening" would matter to anyone? Unlikely, given that presumably the people voting him have read his opening and are voting him anyways, yeah? So I presented the part of the read i thought might be more compelling instead. Which hasn't worked, but it at least had a chance to.


Correct, I am ignoring it. Because it isn't a pure volume tell--if you guys say he can make 300 or 400 something posts as mafia, then ok sure maybe he can. Its a volume of townie posts, as I've said previously--he has a significant number of posts i think are kind of townie to pretty townie, so based on that collectively I think he's town. It isn't about one specific post, it isn't about just looking at a post count number, its about a critical mass of posts that I read and think "yeah thats townie" to the point that I just townread him.

He looks to me like he's trying to work with people and getting increasingly annoyed when those people are scumreading him. It seems to me that he's more frustrated at not being able to work with people than at being scumread. I think that's townie.

[Lime Coke]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

Are you sure about that?

i wouldn't sheep esooa's read on transcend FYI.

I've caught him as wolf every time he's been one

i was literally in a game w/you where you were hard defending him at EOD (mountanado)

and in MCM you were one of the few people considering worlds where he was town d1

Actually she didn't vote out Transcend in Desperado Mountainous Test Game either when he was maf.

Spoiler: show

Don't mean to pile on you Esooa.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Let's pretend illario is an IC. Who am I misclearing here?

Remind me who you're clearing

For the sake of discussion let's just say that I'm lock clearing everyone who isn't in my active PoE.

So alexa, Esooa, LC, Alison, TSP.

Where are the wolves in that list?

Alison or lime

Maybe tsp, dependent on ilario's flip

Tbf I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if there was a wolf in those three names, particularly because I no longer have a reason to TR Alison as strongly and her attempt at a push on me felt like a stretch.

TSP if illario is town? Do you have any familiarity with him and his meta?

Also seriously please explain why you think blade is town here lol. I'm usually not bad at reading him but I'm not seeing it here tbh.

With tsp? Yes, lots. It rarely helps.

I'm good at reading blade idk what to tell you. He has townie drive, is that something that'll convince you?

Thanks. Most importantly: does TSP ever slank like this as a wolf in his normal wolf games? If no, do you think he'd be capable of taking a step back this game if he had a sufficiently strong partner? I talked about my thoughts on that earlier but I'm interested in hearing what you think with actual experience playing with him lol.

As for blade, not really tbh. Do you have any thoughts on him claiming that I haven't towntold yet but then sort of rolling that back and saying that I hadn't done anything town indicative yet instead? (After I called him out because I knew he had no real town tells on me and was pushing that in bad faith).

Tsp is capable of slanking as either alignment


I do not, I found that exchange entirely meaningless.

[Lime Coke]

I think Transcend is more likely town than not atm

Are you sure about that?

i wouldn't sheep esooa's read on transcend FYI.

I've caught him as wolf every time he's been one

i was literally in a game w/you where you were hard defending him at EOD (mountanado)

and in MCM you were one of the few people considering worlds where he was town d1

Actually she didn't vote out Transcend in Desperado Mountainous Test Game either when he was maf.

Spoiler: show

Don't mean to pile on you Esooa.

I didn't vote him out either so I can't say much.

[Wiml]

Remind me who you're clearing

For the sake of discussion let's just say that I'm lock clearing everyone who isn't in my active PoE.

So alexa, Esooa, LC, Alison, TSP.

Where are the wolves in that list?

Alison or lime

Maybe tsp, dependent on ilario's flip

Tbf I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if there was a wolf in those three names, particularly because I no longer have a reason to TR Alison as strongly and her attempt at a push on me felt like a stretch.

TSP if illario is town? Do you have any familiarity with him and his meta?

Also seriously please explain why you think blade is town here lol. I'm usually not bad at reading him but I'm not seeing it here tbh.

With tsp? Yes, lots. It rarely helps.

I'm good at reading blade idk what to tell you. He has townie drive, is that something that'll convince you?

Thanks. Most importantly: does TSP ever slank like this as a wolf in his normal wolf games? If no, do you think he'd be capable of taking a step back this game if he had a sufficiently strong partner? I talked about my thoughts on that earlier but I'm interested in hearing what you think with actual experience playing with him lol.

As for blade, not really tbh. Do you have any thoughts on him claiming that I haven't towntold yet but then sort of rolling that back and saying that I hadn't done anything town indicative yet instead? (After I called him out because I knew he had no real town tells on me and was pushing that in bad faith).

Tsp is capable of slanking as either alignment


I do not, I found that exchange entirely meaningless.

TSP can pretty easily be a wolf then tbh. When Mac was pushing TSP as having a meta tell early on was that sarcasm then? I took it at face value lol.

[Esooa]

I just looked at mountainado and I said this almost immediately to Matt after he subbed in



Yeah I don't think I didn't wolf read him

[Wiml]

Honestly I need to look at Esooa again as well lol but I'm too tired for that right now.

[Wiml]

@Esooa please @ me at the point where you go over why you think Transcend is town. I'll probably be asleep.

[Esooa]

I had Matt in my PoE the entire day phase without ever town reading him once in mountainado

I immediately wolf read Matt extremely strongly in MCM and never talked about it cause the guy was top wagon all game

my first EM game I spent 3 day phases tunneling him until he died

The 2nd EM game I asked SPF if I could vigi shoot him after he posted 3 times, and I world built all of day 1 around him being a wolf

He was a wolf in all of these

So I don't really give a fuck what u think about my Matt read, lol

[alexa]

I just looked at mountainado and I said this almost immediately to Matt after he subbed in



Yeah I don't think I didn't wolf read him

you were "onto" him immediately this game too if he's a wolf

i'm saying you changed your mind and defended his wagon by EOD

[Esooa]

Most the things I did in the first 2 games listed above was just pushing counter wagons to see how it went

[Lime Coke]

@Esooa

Are you sure he's not being nit-picky in this game? Because I feel like he's being nit-picky.

[Wiml]

I'm more interested I what Esooa has to say compared to her history of reading Transcend at this point lol.

[Wiml]

@Esooa

Are you sure he's not being nit-picky in this game? Because I feel like he's being nit-picky.

Actually agree with this.

[EnderWiggin]

At least the LC being obv town is just easy pickings.

TSP is probably just town.

Iliario is an easy townread too.

Bruh Why u up at 3am lol, ur Aussie right?

And how am I an easy townread? This is like our first game and I don’t really think anyone’s ever said that to me in just our first game

Cause I lost control of my life a little =P

I dunno what to say but you are.

[Lime Coke]

Ender just magically knows people's meta without actually being in games with them. I wish I had that ability.

[EnderWiggin]

i actually feel decently about it because i townread the people who i think if we're t/t/t/t we'll win

if that's what you mean

Who are all of them again?

ilario, esooa, wiml, you, alison

This feels more like a wishlist than actually locking town.

For that Alexa can be town too

[alexa]

actually esooa did push transcend's counterwagon (a villager) hard but she didn't openly townread him that i see in mountanado that is correct

[Esooa]

Honestly half the reason I'm saying I town read him RN is cause I'd rather the thread talk about wolf reads that aren't Transcend which is also why I can't be bothered to explain it

I think he has a few towny posts though

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

For the sake of discussion let's just say that I'm lock clearing everyone who isn't in my active PoE.

So alexa, Esooa, LC, Alison, TSP.

Where are the wolves in that list?

Alison or lime

Maybe tsp, dependent on ilario's flip

Tbf I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if there was a wolf in those three names, particularly because I no longer have a reason to TR Alison as strongly and her attempt at a push on me felt like a stretch.

TSP if illario is town? Do you have any familiarity with him and his meta?

Also seriously please explain why you think blade is town here lol. I'm usually not bad at reading him but I'm not seeing it here tbh.

With tsp? Yes, lots. It rarely helps.

I'm good at reading blade idk what to tell you. He has townie drive, is that something that'll convince you?

Thanks. Most importantly: does TSP ever slank like this as a wolf in his normal wolf games? If no, do you think he'd be capable of taking a step back this game if he had a sufficiently strong partner? I talked about my thoughts on that earlier but I'm interested in hearing what you think with actual experience playing with him lol.

As for blade, not really tbh. Do you have any thoughts on him claiming that I haven't towntold yet but then sort of rolling that back and saying that I hadn't done anything town indicative yet instead? (After I called him out because I knew he had no real town tells on me and was pushing that in bad faith).

Tsp is capable of slanking as either alignment


I do not, I found that exchange entirely meaningless.

TSP can pretty easily be a wolf then tbh. When Mac was pushing TSP as having a meta tell early on was that sarcasm then? I took it at face value lol.

Mac might be able to meta read tsp, not sure

I can't reliably

[Lime Coke]

Honestly half the reason I'm saying I town read him RN is cause I'd rather the thread talk about wolf reads that aren't Transcend which is also why I can't be bothered to explain it

I think he has a few towny posts though

That makes sense actually.

Who else do you wolf read?

[alexa]

Honestly half the reason I'm saying I town read him RN is cause I'd rather the thread talk about wolf reads that aren't Transcend which is also why I can't be bothered to explain it

I think he has a few towny posts though

all i'm saying is i'd like you to talk about the towny posts because if he's town i'd like to see it

[alexa]

and sure we can talk about other wolfreads

[Alison]

mac is slowly becoming my top tr lol

yah it seems like all the "1p players" rolled town. i wonder if the game really is as easy as nanook + x

Why is Mac town?

His quote about him playing like a nutcase so he doesn’t get n1d. That in itself isn’t a thought that’s hard to fake but then he carries on that thought by mentioning something about u and esooa dieing n1/n2 which made me feel like it was a real thought that came about and not just something as simple as “hurrr watch me get nightkilled lols”

It’s a progression I’m pretty sure I’ve said a bunch as town but never once thought to fake as scum, since most people find that kinda stuff NAI anyways so I wouldn’t ever bother faking that.

Well within his scum range.

[Alison]

Yeah I have like no reads right now and I'm not planning on accomishing a lot early on into this phase either tbh.

As for why I'm not pushing you, it's because I was waiting for your response, mostly because I wanted to see if you anchored your read or not after I aggressively shot it down. I'll probably continue this train of thought now once I'm actually caught up bec

What would you have done if I had dropped the read and why?

Ignore this post if you answer it later on, I'm catching up sequentially.

[Lime Coke]

and sure we can talk about other wolfreads

Sure let's do that.

Vote: Alexa

Spoiler: show

justkiddingimnotactuallyvotingyoupleasedontkillme

[Alison]

illario is town

Tell me more about this read.

I'm not going to call it a godread because it's slightly less confident than that but I he's generally a really easy player to find as town from meta. The only player in this game probably better at reading him than me is alexa.

But one thing in particular that I can actually explain here is illario's approach to scumreads, specifically his mild scumread on me. I'll explain in more detail later if necessary but he has this thing as town where he doesn't like outing scumreads unless he's pushing them really hard because he's paranoid about how people will react to them (which is why I had to respond to him earlier to tell him to out his read on me) which I don't think he is self aware enough of / capable / willing to replicate as a wolf.

Also weak reason but he probably just doesn't lightly scumread me at all if he's actually a wolf. He knows he has to kill me lol.

Okay, acknowledged.

[Esooa]

I've never seen him AtE as a wolf to my recollection and he's obviously trying not to be toxic

Earlier he made posts which:

came from a town PoV

is AtE like he hasn't done as a wolf (this could be for a few reasons; demotivated previous wolf games due to not wanting to wolf at all, having less time/investment/rather than being mad at wolf reads on him I think he more felt bad for how he played, etc)

and was handled in a towny was too imo (obviously there but attempted to be curtailed)

First point is... okay

Second has potential holes but if we're going off how likely it is to come from a wolf, probably less likely

Third is possibly from a wolf considering he's trying to be not toxic in thread is general but shrug

[Alison]

one of wiml and ilario at min is a wolf

and wiml just hard claimed wolf with the ilario read basically

Weird dichotomy. Elaborate?

I agree with you that if there's a wolf between the two it's Wiml.

[Esooa]

Maybe i'm just really good at comparing my town and wolf games and since u have only seen me as wolf you're just gonna sr me nm what cause this is how i play

Everyone says they read me as scum if i have a dirty agenda

How do i have a dirty agenda here? How is my doubt on a universal tr indicate a dirty agenda?

U think that my town play is going to be the same in a game w a bunch of noobs as opposed to a bunch of pros ur horribly mistaken

actually I think I've seen him say something like the first

So it could just be useless

But I think the other two fit along it in a way that like.. actually is a towny PoV I don't recall seeing before. He's mad cause he's town

[Alison]

there is a graph here i could make where wiml is at the centre of circles that Alison transcend and ilario are other circles of

Odd headspace. Probably townie.

[alexa]

I've never seen him AtE as a wolf to my recollection and he's obviously trying not to be toxic

Earlier he made posts which:

came from a town PoV

is AtE like he hasn't done as a wolf (this could be for a few reasons; demotivated previous wolf games due to not wanting to wolf at all, having less time/investment/rather than being mad at wolf reads on him I think he more felt bad for how he played, etc)

and was handled in a towny was too imo (obviously there but attempted to be curtailed)

First point is... okay

Second has potential holes but if we're going off how likely it is to come from a wolf, probably less likely

Third is possibly from a wolf considering he's trying to be not toxic in thread is general but shrug

...what are you considering him AtEing?
even if he's town here i can say with 10000% confidence whatever AtE i've seen is stuff i've seen him do as wolf

[Alison]

actually mac is a wolf

Oh good Esooa is town.

She can absolutely fake "progression" like that though.

Actually her arbitrarily flipping a read like that is probably >rand wolf, even though I'm leaning town on her currently.

I am calling her town because she agrees with my read not because she flipped her read.

[Wiml]

Yeah I have like no reads right now and I'm not planning on accomishing a lot early on into this phase either tbh.

As for why I'm not pushing you, it's because I was waiting for your response, mostly because I wanted to see if you anchored your read or not after I aggressively shot it down. I'll probably continue this train of thought now once I'm actually caught up bec

What would you have done if I had dropped the read and why?

Ignore this post if you answer it later on, I'm catching up sequentially.

If you dropped the read I would have been very surprised and probably townread it for not being how I would have normally expected you to react regardless of alignment.

I was moreso looking to see if you doubled down on the same reasoning / attacked my points defending myself because I think that's behaviour indicative of an arbitrarily formed read. I found your reasoning to be mostly fine though tbh.

[Esooa]

Also I think Nanook could have a point re:volume

Not actually that Matt has a lot of content

I find a lot of his reads shallow

But I think his posting/WIM is more towny than not considering I don't think he wants to wolf and the playerlist

Especially when being scum read this much

Like in MCM he posted fewer times and also open wolfed EoD

[Esooa]

Not enough to confidently town read him but it's at least a consideration

[alexa]

Also I think Nanook could have a point re:volume

Not actually that Matt has a lot of content

I find a lot of his reads shallow

But I think his posting/WIM is more towny than not considering I don't think he wants to wolf and the playerlist

Especially when being scum read this much

Like in MCM he posted fewer times and also open wolfed EoD

in MCM he had no time to play

the volume is 1000000000% NAI if you compare epicmafia games.

it's all dependent on his time to play

[Lime Coke]

actually mac is a wolf

Oh good Esooa is town.

She can absolutely fake "progression" like that though.

Actually her arbitrarily flipping a read like that is probably >rand wolf, even though I'm leaning town on her currently.

I am calling her town because she agrees with my read not because she flipped her read.

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

[Wiml]

I'm not sure how I feel about Transcend tbh.

Probably going to sleep on it.

[Esooa]

tbh he's still a wolf I just like being a contrarian ALRIGHT

[Alison]

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

Esooa agreeing with my reads is town indicative of her. She scumsides D1 as wolf.