The Syndicate

thellama73 wrote:I thought he had a rather feminine voice as well, so Golden isn't crazy. Took me a minute to tell whether it was a man or a women in the first track.

No. You're both crazy.

Contrary to what was said by others here, I think the vocalist is phenomenal and fit the ostentatious nature of the music perfectly.

To me, this is the Electric Light Orchestra without the rock and roll element and with a better singer than Jeff Lynne. And I like Jeff Lynne. "As We Move Forward" contains the same melody and chord progression as an ELO song ("Waterfall" in case you are wondering). Even the inflections are similar on the chorus.

As a huge ELO fan, that's something.

This blew me away. Thanks nutella. Good first pick.

5/5

And I almost never award those on a first listen. This clicked with me instantly and completely.

Epignosis wrote:First of all, the lead vocalist is clearly a male. I don't understand how anyone thought otherwise.

Seriously. It was clear as day.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it!

Epignosis wrote:Contrary to what was said by others here, I think the vocalist is phenomenal and fit the ostentatious nature of the music perfectly.

To me, this is the Electric Light Orchestra without the rock and roll element and with a better singer than Jeff Lynne. And I like Jeff Lynne. "As We Move Forward" contains the same melody and chord progression as an ELO song ("Waterfall" in case you are wondering). Even the inflections are similar on the chorus.

As a huge ELO fan, that's something.

This blew me away. Thanks nutella. Good first pick.

5/5

And I almost never award those on a first listen. This clicked with me instantly and completely.

This is exactly what this group is for.

Even though I'm pretty sure not to the degree you have, I quite thoroughly enjoyed it myself, so I look forward to hearing it again today.

Re: the first half vs. second half, I usually have an opinion on this, but I actually didn't after my first listen. I felt both sides were about equally strong.

Third listen. I've pretty much determined which songs I like and which ones I am indifferent to. I am still in partial agreement with those who aren't crazy about the singer's voice. I've been trying to put my finger on it but it's not a black-and-white vocal issue for me. On some tracks, his voice works well with the music. On others, not so much (my opinion). I think for me it's part to do with the orchestration.

I did a little homework on the group. The signer is one of the few members of the group who does not hold a degree in musical performance. I think that might be part of it. He's surrounded himself with classically-trained musicians and, for me, that makes his voice stand out as sub-par compared to the rest of what's going on musically. Another thing that makes his voice stand out to me is the scope of the orchestration. I watched two videos of them performing live and the whole package sounds better when the group's sound is smaller. With all the layers of a full orchestra behind them, his voice can't match the rest of the sonic beauty being delivered.

At times it also feels like he's trying to make his voice sound the way he envisions the song sounding, rather than making music that suits his voice (be it range, tone, color, etc.). There's nothing wrong with pushing your boundaries but it feels like he overstretches on a few tracks.

I don't find any of the tracks unfavorable but there are a few that I was mostly or completely indifferent to. On my playlist, track 4 is a 59-second long instrumental ("William's Dirge"). I don't really know how to evaluate that track. It sounds good but what is its function? Is it a stand-alone track? If so, I wish it could be longer because it's on to something heard nowhere else on the album. If it's to serve as an intro to track 5 ("Howl"), then should it really have its own track space at just 59 seconds long? I'm inclined to say no, but maybe some of you more musically-minded people can help me out there.

Seeing their visual aesthetic confirms to me that they are hipsters on some level. The good news is that any hipster pretension they may harbor does not cross over into their music. I hear love and passion for their craft rather than a sense of superiority or ego.

After a couple listens I haven't fully gathered my thoughts on the album. I think I like about half the tracks, but I feel like some great songwriting is hurt by overproduction & too much instrumentation

So I've done most of a second listen. I'm pretty much with mp - 3.5 stars, it's pretty good, I would listen to it again. If I was to buy, I'd more likely select specific tracks than the whole thing, although some tracks that passed me by the first time I liked more on the second listen.

Howl (possibly including 'Williams dirge' based on what g-man said) is definitely my favourite track. It even ends the same way a Lost episode does (surely others heard this?)

Beneath the Brine is clearly the masterpiece on the album. In a way I think it sets expectations too high, in terms of how adventurous the album is. It's such a unique and well put together song that on the first listen, some of the other tracks sounded almost like paint by numbers pop on a first listen. On a second listen, I got more from some of those tracks, though. The weakest tracks on the album are, for me, ones that lack in lyrical originality as well as musical originality. 'Love don't go' stands out on that front. Having said that, it's rare that an album that can manage strong tracks across the board.

The biggest thing that stands out to me is that whoever writes the music is a very strong orchestrator, and that's what makes the album so successful for me.

Golden wrote:On a second listen, I got more from some of those tracks, though. The weakest tracks on the album are, for me, ones that lack in lyrical originality as well as musical originality.

Do you have an opinion on the above-mentioned ambiguity of Make Me a Boat?

I haven't listened to it yet. I shall find it today.

It doesn't appear "ranking" is going to be a prominent thing here, which is perfectly cool with me. So I'm pulling it from the name. I think just Syndicate Album of the Week is fine. SAW.

We'll see if the name changes again tomorrow.

I intend to rank the albums as we get beyond one. I'm not sure how I can rank a single album.

It's number one!

When I initially included the word "ranking", I was talking about tracks. I won't be ranking the albums as we go (I'll feel bad about whichever one inevitably finishes last), but of course y'all treat the activity as you like.

Does anyone find it useful to rank tracks on an album? I find it very strange. I view an album as a coherent unit of music, not just a collection of songs.

thellama73 wrote:Does anyone find it useful to rank tracks on an album? I find it very strange. I view an album as a coherent unit of music, not just a collection of songs.

So do I. At least, assuming it is a coherent unit of music. If it isn't, then I'm likely to admire it slightly less. The more coherent an album feels, the better I'm likely to receive it.

I put a lot of time into figuring out if I felt Beneath the Brine was coherent, given how eclectic it was. In the end, I decided that it is essentially coherent.

thellama73 wrote:Does anyone find it useful to rank tracks on an album? I find it very strange. I view an album as a coherent unit of music, not just a collection of songs.

I wouldn't call it "useful" to rank anything in music. There is no objective good or bad anyway. It's just numbers porn for people who like numbers. I'm not even that into it personally. This activity springs from a similar one I used to do waaaaaaaay back, and in that case they liked to rank the tracks.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It doesn't appear "ranking" is going to be a prominent thing here, which is perfectly cool with me. So I'm pulling it from the name. I think just Syndicate Album of the Week is fine. SAW.

We'll see if the name changes again tomorrow.

SAW is cool with me.

Yeah, I listened again this morning and found it very difficult to rank tracks; as much as I personally love numbers porn, I think I'm going to refrain from that, unfortunately.

I'd be up with Golden and whoever else who wants to rank the albums, but like Jay mentioned, I don't want there to be any hard feelings or anything like that, so if you all think it's for the better I won't actually publicize the rankings. But it'll be clear how I feel about each album anyway within a 5-star scale since I'm rating them all on RYM anyway. Perhaps I'll just keep a running tally of those star ratings.

I don't think my opinions should make anyone feel bad. I know nothing, and so it's just about what happens to be pleasing to my ears.

Golden wrote:I don't think my opinions should make anyone feel bad. I know nothing, and so it's just about what happens to be pleasing to my ears.

Yeah, I'd agree, I just hope that no one would take to heart if their album gets ranked at the bottom or anything of mine once we've gone through 5, 10, or however many. It's obviously not personal, and no one's judgment is better than everyone else's.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:First of all, the lead vocalist is clearly a male. I don't understand how anyone thought otherwise.

It is really androgynous.

Then check your ears. He has an incredible range. Fantastic vocalist.

Can we do this without judging other peoples opinions? I am already intimidated posting in this group as so many of you come from a music background or site. Saying things like this make people like me even less likely to join this type of discussion.

Thank You.

It is truly incredibly fascinating to me how differently people perceive things, especially when it comes to music. I think that's what makes a group like this so great. So I agree; I don't think anyone should feel hesitant or intimidated to express their opinion.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:I don't think my opinions should make anyone feel bad. I know nothing, and so it's just about what happens to be pleasing to my ears.

Yeah, I'd agree, I just hope that no one would take to heart if their album gets ranked at the bottom or anything of mine once we've gone through 5, 10, or however many. It's obviously not personal, and no one's judgment is better than everyone else's.

If people don't like the Crazy World of Arthur Brown I'm going to set this place on FIRE.

Furthermore, I would like to encourage SVS to stay and participate and not take Epignosis seriously. I find her perspective very helpful and informative.

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:First of all, the lead vocalist is clearly a male. I don't understand how anyone thought otherwise.

It is really androgynous.

Then check your ears. He has an incredible range. Fantastic vocalist.

Can we do this without judging other peoples opinions? I am already intimidated posting in this group as so many of you come from a music background or site. Saying things like this make people like me even less likely to join this type of discussion.

Thank You.

I wasn't judging his opinion. I thought I was being...fraternal? More along the lines of:

"Man, Stephen Curry is the greatest basketball player ever."

"Then check your eyes. You clearly didn't see what a mess he was against the Nuggets last night, who are awful against point guards."

Maybe I'm just hanging around on DFS sites too much.

I've rated every song but ranking every song would be far too time-consuming for the purposes of this thread. I'll probably list my three favorites and one or two least favorites but I don't have time at work to do track comparisons. I don't even do that for my RnRHoF listens.

But I will keep a ranked lost of each album we listen to. Besides, if anyone is going to be the one to share a universally reviled album, it'll probably be me. That would be my luck.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:First of all, the lead vocalist is clearly a male. I don't understand how anyone thought otherwise.

It is really androgynous.

Then check your ears. He has an incredible range. Fantastic vocalist.

Can we do this without judging other peoples opinions? I am already intimidated posting in this group as so many of you come from a music background or site. Saying things like this make people like me even less likely to join this type of discussion.

Thank You.

I wasn't judging his opinion. I thought I was being...fraternal? More along the lines of:

"Man, Stephen Curry is the greatest basketball player ever."

"Then check your eyes. You clearly didn't see what a mess he was against the Nuggets last night, who are awful against point guards."

Maybe I'm just hanging around on DFS sites too much.

I have to say, when I heard the back half of the album, it was clearly a man.

Then I listened to the front half again, and I maintain there are several tracks in the first few where it's quite ambiguous.

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:First of all, the lead vocalist is clearly a male. I don't understand how anyone thought otherwise.

It is really androgynous.

Then check your ears. He has an incredible range. Fantastic vocalist.

Can we do this without judging other peoples opinions? I am already intimidated posting in this group as so many of you come from a music background or site. Saying things like this make people like me even less likely to join this type of discussion.

Thank You.

I am actually hanging out for your opinions in this thread SVS. I'm definitely going to value them. In fact, I've even thought ahead to an album I want to add to a poll in the future with you in mind.

Hey, G-Man. Did you catch this?

Golden wrote:Howl ends the same way a Lost episode does (surely others heard this?)

Golden wrote:Hey, G-Man. Did you catch this?

Golden wrote:Howl ends the same way a Lost episode does (surely others heard this?)

Oh man, how did I miss this?

Oh my, I did miss that. So cool!!

Golden wrote:Hey, G-Man. Did you catch this?

Golden wrote:Howl ends the same way a Lost episode does (surely others heard this?)

If it had sounded like Lost, I'd have noticed.

In all seriousness though, the trill thing didn't register with me because it just sounded like a trill. Not the same notes as Lost but I can see why you might be inclined to think that. I don't recall many episodes ending with that effect though. I recall it most vividly in Season 1 when Jack is walking through the bamboo after waking up.

I could be wrong though. I listen to the soundtracks now and again and I watched each episode at least 10 times back when I was running the Lost Fantasy League, but, as the years stretch on, these things get nudged further back in my memory.

Darn it, you coward! Now you've got me scouring my memory for Lost motifs to hum. I'm getting all nostalgic now. If it weren't for the fact that it would feel disjointed to the uninitiated, I'd say someone should nominate the Lost soundtracks sometime during this thread's run.

G-Man wrote: Darn it, you coward! Now you've got me scouring my memory for Lost motifs to hum. I'm getting all nostalgic now. If it weren't for the fact that it would feel disjointed to the uninitiated, I'd say someone should nominate the Lost soundtracks sometime during this thread's run.

I have already considered it I mean, in some ways, it's not different that picking another classical album, and I feel the need to do that at some point. In fact, I've got quite a list of things I'm considering - some things that I love and I want to share with others, some things where my opinion is up in the air and I'm interested in other views, some things that are more mainstream and less about sharing something new than getting people to think about it and talk about it, and then things like this lol.

Yeah, but I think a TV soundtrack like Lost would be jarring at times because it's highlights from a whole season instead of just the music from a stand-alone film. It takes a while to get used to going from a death motif right into 'oh s*** here comes the Smoke Monster!' I love the Lost soundtracks because I can remember where those musical moments happened and it takes me back there. In the end, though, the soundtracks are more like greatest hits collections than true albums. The exceptions to that are disc 2 of Season 3 and disc 2 of the Season 6 Last Episodes collection.

Movie soundtracks tell a more complete story. I see nothing wrong with putting a symphony or opera on the list someday.

I own the soundtrack to Lost even though I didn't watch the show. It was from my film scoring days when I was studying Michael Giacchino's work. Then I realized I don't really like film music much. x(

But at some point I plan to nominate an album of horrible noise, so knock yourself out.

thellama73 wrote:But at some point I plan to nominate an album of horrible noise, so knock yourself out.

Already got it covered. Bish Bosch, week four.

I'm not quite sure any of you will like it, but I think we'll have fun discussing it.

THOUGHTS AFTER 1 AND A HALF LISTENS:

I agree with others saying that the titular song is the best produced. At its best, the album reminds me of the varied instrumentation and folk roots of an Elephant Six project, and at its worst like an easy-breezy prototypical indie pop chorus trifle, that wouldn't seem out of place in a soap commercial. (And this is coming from an indie pop FAN.)

Nevertheless, I like it. I'm in Epi's camp with regards to the singer's gender, although maybe I'm just used to aberrant vocalist stylings.

Got through half a listen so far, and I like what I hear. 4 stars!

Thanks for the recommendation nutella! I'll get around to the second half soon.

And for what it's worth. I thought the vocalist was male from the first words.

Alright, after five listens, I'm ready to call this one done for me. The Family Crest is not the type of music I would normally listen to on purpose, so this thread has already served itself well. Beneath the Brine wears only a little of the group's indie-hipster vibe on its sleeve and I appreciate that. Rather than thinking they're awesome for what they're doing, it's evident to me that the group thinks what they're doing is awesome. That's the difference between passion and pretension and it pays dividends.

I was indifferent to a few tracks but I found nothing objectionable with the album as a whole. Sure, the singer's voice doesn't seem to match the music at times but there are also songs where they do match well. After seeing their live sets on YouTube, I think they sound better small. If they cut their orchestration and big-sound production in half for their next album, it could be a win for everyone.

They give in to convention now and again, with too many whoa-oh-oh-oh's and on-and-on-and-on-and-on's in places but I like that the album doesn't sit in one place. Rather than have a full album of indie-jazz tunes like "Howl," they go there once and explore other light, somber, sweet, and soulful sounds that are in the folksy-hipster vicinity. That gives the album a nice ebb and flow.

I don't fuss over lyrics unless they're excessively profane or so corny that it pulls me out of the music. I consider the vocals to be another instrument in the overall package. If the words happen to move me or make some other kind of impact, all the better. This album didn't really register much in terms of lyrics, and that's okay. The singer's voice was hit-or-miss for me depending on the track but it didn't pull me out of the experience. Perhaps that says something about how strong the music is here. At times it was fantastic and never was it irritating. A little melodrama here and there lyrically and sonically but nothing detrimental to the cause.

If I had to pick three tracks to take with me, I would take "Beneath the Brine," "She Knows My Name," and "As We Move Forward." I thought there was some steam lost late in the album. "When the Lights Go Out" may work as a hipster love song but I am not a hipster, so it slowed things down too much for me. I'd say scrap that one, dial back the gusto on "Make Me a Boat," and replace the whoa-oh-oh-oh's on "Love Don't Go" with more meaningful words. That would take this album up another notch.

I have a three-song approach to any album (assuming there are three or more tracks). I pay a lot of attention to the first three songs and if at least two of the first three tracks elicit a positive response, I find myself more receptive to the whole package. The first song, "Beneath the Brine," swings for the fences and scores. The second song, "The World," is lighter but still agreeable. Track three, "Love Don't Go," had me rolling my eyes a little with all the whoa-oh-oh-oh's. As Meat Loaf sang, two out of three ain't bad, and that's exactly how I feel about this album. The group set out to make pretty music with a little flair and they did just that.

Overall, I give it 3.33 out of 5 for a solid B.

For your eyes only

Loving the reviews, G-Man and Rico.

Especially all the Fantano references, Rico. Pure gold.

Ricochet wrote:For your eyes only

Spoiler: show

It's like if Anthony Fantano had an accent and more than an ounce of intelligence. You've got the shelf in the background and everything.

LIGHT 9.

BEST NEW REVIEWER.

insertnamehere wrote:

Ricochet wrote:For your eyes only

Spoiler: show

It's like if Anthony Fantano had an accent and more than an ounce of intelligence. You've got the shelf in the background and everything.

LIGHT 9.

BEST NEW REVIEWER.

Ricochet wrote:For your eyes only

Spoiler: show

I'm just a lurker here and don't understand the references to this Fantano person but please-please-please continue to do the reviews this way. Do not get a life. Do not work on your dissertation. Make these little videos instead. In fact, can you do your movie reviews this way too?

juliets wrote:

Ricochet wrote:For your eyes only

Spoiler: show

I'm just a lurker here and don't understand the references to this Fantano person but please-please-please continue to do the reviews this way. Do not get a life. Do not work on your dissertation. Make these little videos instead. In fact, can you do your movie reviews this way too?

Oh hell nah. It takes me hours just to write down those posts. On a Saturday.

As for the references (just a random, short example):