The Syndicate

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:55 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:34 pm if sig is mafia, why does he kill ted? why does he hard push on falcon early into d2 before falcon was even a consensus scumread?

if psv is mafia, why does she go out of her way to try to prevent me from dying when i could be an easy miselimination from her pov? (unless she's specifically trying to keep me alive for 3 way so that i will vote with her i guess)

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

I rarely ever order readlists

It's like, a lot of have people said you're scum but I genuinely don't understand why

Like I don't think I've seen a case, but I can't exactly ignore the ghosts of the past yelling that you're bad

shrug

it's less the order of the readlist for me and more you saying that you "don't know" why you've been townreading me, as though your townread on me appeared out of thin air and isnt something youve been confidently repping for this entire game

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:45 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:36 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:34 pm dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

Hmm, was he townreading you previously? If so that's a bit sus.
I think overall my reads are:
SPF
sig
Dennis
Neon

But I could go either way on voting those last two.

yeah i mean, these are the most recent things dennis said about me before he put me at the bottom of his list:

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 3:59 pm I have been townreading SPF for more or less the entire game, and I don't think Kate's case was super compelling because I think she misunderstood what spf was saying. So while you are following consensus and that's whatever, I don't think it's really alignment indicative cause you're new, I have my own reasons to disagree

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 5:54 pm

pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 5:32 pm probably just gonna afk until the night kill

not sure there's much for us to be gained here

sorry for the rand dennis but you know I gotta do it to ya

I guess maybe the one discussion to have it, do we actually just sheep Kate now? for realsies?

In a world where spf is mafia, I 1. Look like an ABSOLUTE doofus and 2. Have been pocketed so hard and I don't want to accept that

so, dennis suddenly saying:

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:19 pm SPF, I dunno why. I feel like she should be lower honestly, I think I'm just seeing a ton of words and going "yup!"

...is hard for me to swallow. because he made it very clear that his townread on me was based on specific reasons, and i don't buy that he suddenly "doesn't know why" he townreads me

What are the reasons in these tho

These are more me saying "I don't see why I should scumread you", not so much why I townread you but now I'm down to 4 suspects so having to reason to scumread isn't very compelling

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:54 pm dennis's character arc in this game is basically just a Shakespeare play

Precisely

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:57 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:55 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:34 pm if sig is mafia, why does he kill ted? why does he hard push on falcon early into d2 before falcon was even a consensus scumread?

if psv is mafia, why does she go out of her way to try to prevent me from dying when i could be an easy miselimination from her pov? (unless she's specifically trying to keep me alive for 3 way so that i will vote with her i guess)

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

I rarely ever order readlists

It's like, a lot of have people said you're scum but I genuinely don't understand why

Like I don't think I've seen a case, but I can't exactly ignore the ghosts of the past yelling that you're bad

shrug

it's less the order of the readlist for me and more you saying that you "don't know" why you've been townreading me, as though your townread on me appeared out of thin air and isnt something youve been confidently repping for this entire game

Understandable, I suppose

I've done this as town before where I realize I'm just kinda TRing for little reason, in the champs practice game. It was whatever day tutuu died, if you'd like to look at that

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:58 pm What are the reasons in these tho

i mean, you tell me. you're the one who has been acting confident that i'm town for the majority of this game

so, on the day when the wolf most likely needs to get me eliminated to win the game, you suddenly saying: "i don't know why i townread SPF" is a bit paranoia inducing, as i'm sure you can understand

dennis, if u and me are both town, who is the mafia?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 11:06 pm dennis, if u and me are both town, who is the mafia?

bro idfk im so scared rn

Sig, I think. I'm genuinely having a really hard time NOT tring like everyone but him at this point

To be clear, I'm not saying I've like switched up and I'm tunneling you now, I'm getting paranoid and reevaluating someone who I've haven't put too much thought into. Which I absolutely didn't make clear before but

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 11:06 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:58 pm What are the reasons in these tho

i mean, you tell me. you're the one who has been acting confident that i'm town for the majority of this game

so, on the day when the wolf most likely needs to get me eliminated to win the game, you suddenly saying: "i don't know why i townread SPF" is a bit paranoia inducing, as i'm sure you can understand

I meant the way you worded that post suggested that I stated reasons in those posts as to why I tr'd you, but you were more implying that I was implying I had specific reasons I think

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 1:58 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 11:21 am Im clearing sig and SPF so like probably everyone else

this is pretty unbelievable to me on a surface level

sig i get, but having that confidence on spf and not narrowing down on 2 people at least seems weird to me.

*shrugs* take it or leave it

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:43 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:39 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 5:32 pm anyway, i don't mind dying today because it's optimal for the gamestate and i would really rather not be taken to the f3

gonna spend the time i do have re-reading the game, mostly. feel free to ping me if you wanna discuss anything specific

I hate this honestly
If you're town a miselim is really the last thing we need right now.
I don't want to be in F3 either but I'm not just gonna say "okay, gobble me up!"

the reality of the situation is that two of the nightkilled players have died with their legacies as: "kill SPF" and if i get taken to a f3, it's going to be very difficult for anyone who is town with me to overcome the strength of those legacies

it's not about "not wanting to be in f3", it's about feeling like i would probably die every time in a f3 and that it is probably the safer option to just kill me today and then strongly consider the legacy read that i give for the f3

i know that it sucks, but that's where i'm at

I mean I will snap vote spf in F3 so like this is true lol

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:34 pm if sig is mafia, why does he kill ted? why does he hard push on falcon early into d2 before falcon was even a consensus scumread?

if psv is mafia, why does she go out of her way to try to prevent me from dying when i could be an easy miselimination from her pov? (unless she's specifically trying to keep me alive for 3 way so that i will vote with her i guess)

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

Like yeah.

I think it's one of Dennis/PSV because of how that EoD went and how dead it was but like alsoooo the NK just adds fuel to the fire that Sig is just not it

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:55 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:34 pm if sig is mafia, why does he kill ted? why does he hard push on falcon early into d2 before falcon was even a consensus scumread?

if psv is mafia, why does she go out of her way to try to prevent me from dying when i could be an easy miselimination from her pov? (unless she's specifically trying to keep me alive for 3 way so that i will vote with her i guess)

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

I rarely ever order readlists

It's like, a lot of have people said you're scum but I genuinely don't understand why

Like I don't think I've seen a case, but I can't exactly ignore the ghosts of the past yelling that you're bad

Hmm why not though?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:42 pm I'm not fully opposed to chopping Dennis today if that will save my stronger townread SPF. I'd like to feel more confident.
@sig you're convinced Dennis is in his scum meta. What would you say to those on the fence?

Besides the personal fact I have a good meta grasp of him I’d say read through his posts and when he’s pressured to actually give scum reads. He’s very hedgy and unsure of himself he’s lacking any sort of confidence in his scum reads.

That’s because he knows who mafia is and isn’t and not proficient enough to cover it up yet. I think it’s very clear he has TMI.

Furthermore it’s really the only world that makes sense at this point.

I also find his behavior when it was six and him to be very scummy. He didn’t really build a case or try to get someone else voted off since again he isn’t that skilled at building fake cases yet.

Also to whoever asked roxy/splints usually let dead scum stay in the chat. Hence my Sean comment

At this point f3 will be between likely me, SPF, and one other.

That’ll leave me and SPF eyeballing each other and the third person being the decider and I’ve got some thoughts on this that I’ll hold off on.

I can tell you right now I don’t want that third person to be Dennis I’m fairly certain he’s the last mafia member.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 5:08 am @sig i do have one question, a common theme in your iso is tinfoiling spf and keep bringing her name up every day phase saying she should die later in the game, but you've never expressed your reason of concerns that go along with that statement

can you say why you keep re-iterating it? have you spotted anything off about her? or some other reason?

I know your dead, but it’s 100% paranoia based off the Tarot card game that Daisy ran awhile back,

Essentially SPF town cored herself and pocketed Mac. One of the ways she did this was go deep wolf and bus a teammate.

That’s a minor worry here as well, but besides that tin foiling I don’t see it.

Also I’ll add I think civ Dennis would’ve participated in the let’s vote off three people and include me which he didn’t do here.

Neon wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:59 am

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:55 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:34 pm if sig is mafia, why does he kill ted? why does he hard push on falcon early into d2 before falcon was even a consensus scumread?

if psv is mafia, why does she go out of her way to try to prevent me from dying when i could be an easy miselimination from her pov? (unless she's specifically trying to keep me alive for 3 way so that i will vote with her i guess)

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

I rarely ever order readlists

It's like, a lot of have people said you're scum but I genuinely don't understand why

Like I don't think I've seen a case, but I can't exactly ignore the ghosts of the past yelling that you're bad

Hmm why not though?

That's why I'm starting to consider it

sig oh my god how did you do this in 64 posts

sig wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 11:48 am Also I’ll add I think civ Dennis would’ve participated in the let’s vote off three people and include me which he didn’t do here.

The who now

Well it looks like me dying here is actually kind of necessary, though I'd still rather not

If I am ever in f3 with sig I get bombed no matter the other person and there's 0 chance either of us get nk'd in that case

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:38 pm Well it looks like me dying here is actually kind of necessary, though I'd still rather not

If I am ever in f3 with sig I get bombed no matter the other person and there's 0 chance either of us get nk'd in that case

I mean, everyone would rather not die. At the same time only 2/5 people are currently voting.
If you weren't allowed to scumread sig, who'd you pick?

Vote: PSV

Neon wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 7:06 pmVote: PSV

Weren't you scumreading Dennis last cycle? What changed?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 7:19 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 7:06 pmVote: PSV

Weren't you scumreading Dennis last cycle? What changed?

Nothing. I just don't want one wagon lol.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:13 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:38 pm Well it looks like me dying here is actually kind of necessary, though I'd still rather not

If I am ever in f3 with sig I get bombed no matter the other person and there's 0 chance either of us get nk'd in that case

I mean, everyone would rather not die. At the same time only 2/5 people are currently voting.
If you weren't allowed to scumread sig, who'd you pick?

That's the thing - for me everyone else is so much higher than sig and I have a pretty hard time scumreading anyone else

Not you, and I don't know whether or not to listen to myself about the neon thing i brought up before so I am really stuck between neon and spf

@Dennis -

do u think it's true that sig has a "good meta characterization" of you? cause sig has brought up his ability to metaread you multiple times as a justification for his push. what kind of experience do u two have together?

sig wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 11:44 am He’s very hedgy and unsure of himself he’s lacking any sort of confidence in his scum reads.

That’s because he knows who mafia is and isn’t and not proficient enough to cover it up yet. I think it’s very clear he has TMI.

doesn't TMI usually come out in the opposite way, though? if you have perfect information, you don't need to be hedgy and lack confidence, right? usually wolves will show TMI by being needlessly confident

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:26 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:13 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:38 pm Well it looks like me dying here is actually kind of necessary, though I'd still rather not

If I am ever in f3 with sig I get bombed no matter the other person and there's 0 chance either of us get nk'd in that case

I mean, everyone would rather not die. At the same time only 2/5 people are currently voting.
If you weren't allowed to scumread sig, who'd you pick?

That's the thing - for me everyone else is so much higher than sig and I have a pretty hard time scumreading anyone else

Not you, and I don't know whether or not to listen to myself about the neon thing i brought up before so I am really stuck between neon and spf

What was the neon thing you brought up earlier?

weh

Wah Wah

So are we just going to shrug yeet Dennis and hope that's the answer, then panic when (fmpov) it isn't?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 11:31 am So are we just going to shrug yeet Dennis and hope that's the answer, then panic when (fmpov) it isn't?

i've been hoping that either dennis or sig will come back before the deadline so that i can talk with them and make a more informed decision

but im not even gonna be able to be around much in the next few hours so idk

i guess fmpov the question is just whether i'm willing to tie the vote and try to get sig eliminated instead

and i really need sig to come back and talk with me before i make that decision

if we don't hit the final maf today we proly lose lol

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 12:20 pm i guess fmpov the question is just whether i'm willing to tie the vote and try to get sig eliminated instead

and i really need sig to come back and talk with me before i make that decision

I thought you were firm on TRing sig?

Four way tie. Maybe that'll make something happen.

im tempted to self vote lol

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 2:48 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 12:20 pm i guess fmpov the question is just whether i'm willing to tie the vote and try to get sig eliminated instead

and i really need sig to come back and talk with me before i make that decision

I thought you were firm on TRing sig?

well i think that the nightkill specifically might point away from sig, even though coming into today, i had the mindset that he might just be mafia

i also don't think that it's you and i don't think that it's neon and i feel reasonably good about that even after re-reading both of your ISOs today

i was leaning dennis for a while even though i felt like i had good reasons to townread him, but i think it's probably just within sig and dennis and that it's important we get it right today

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 3:14 pm im tempted to self vote lol

Five way tie?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 3:16 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 2:48 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 12:20 pm i guess fmpov the question is just whether i'm willing to tie the vote and try to get sig eliminated instead

and i really need sig to come back and talk with me before i make that decision

I thought you were firm on TRing sig?

well i think that the nightkill specifically might point away from sig, even though coming into today, i had the mindset that he might just be mafia

i also don't think that it's you and i don't think that it's neon and i feel reasonably good about that even after re-reading both of your ISOs today

i was leaning dennis for a while even though i felt like i had good reasons to townread him, but i think it's probably just within sig and dennis and that it's important we get it right today

Okay, I just don't get why you wouldn't vote Dennis then if you're pretty confident it isn't Sig after reading his ISO.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 3:16 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 3:14 pm im tempted to self vote lol

Five way tie?

let the mafia gods decide our fate

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 3:17 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 3:16 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 2:48 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 12:20 pm i guess fmpov the question is just whether i'm willing to tie the vote and try to get sig eliminated instead

and i really need sig to come back and talk with me before i make that decision

I thought you were firm on TRing sig?

well i think that the nightkill specifically might point away from sig, even though coming into today, i had the mindset that he might just be mafia

i also don't think that it's you and i don't think that it's neon and i feel reasonably good about that even after re-reading both of your ISOs today

i was leaning dennis for a while even though i felt like i had good reasons to townread him, but i think it's probably just within sig and dennis and that it's important we get it right today

Okay, I just don't get why you wouldn't vote Dennis then if you're pretty confident it isn't Sig after reading his ISO.

well at the time, dennis was in the lead, and sig was one vote behind

so it was just a question of whether i was willing to let dennis die or if i felt confident enough about sig to tie the vote and try to get him killed instead

but yeah, as of right now, i do think that it might just be dennis

do we know what time the poll closes?

[VOTE: dennis] aubergine

i just don't see why sig ever makes the ted kill in a world where he's mafia, nor do i have a particular problem with any of his posts beyond the general paranoia about him not posting enough

and i really dont think that it makes sense for it to be neon and that she just wouldn't approach falcon in the way she did if she was W/W with him

and i dont think falcon/seanzie would treat PSV in the way they did if she was mafia either, and i like that she has been one of the only people in the game still actively trying to solve and create a consensus when the rest of the thread has been AWOL

i could make an argument for dennis being town too but right now it feels weaker than all of my other arguments, and he technically does "fit" as someone who may have positioned himself to bus on d1, and it is true that he didn't play any particular role in the momentum against either falcon or seanzie, and his solving today is a bit all over the place and reads like he's trying to position himself for multiple miseliminations on me/sig

so yeah

i will be in a meeting for the next hour but will try to be present for the rest of the day after that

@Dennis @sig @Neon

come play