Arkham Mafia [ENDGAME]

[MacDougall]

So basically you are saying yes Matt was likely cursed but here is why it most likely wasn't by the Joker. Yes?

Linki. Yay!! I understood something!!

I'm not actually dismissing the possibility that he was cursed by The Joker. Maybe The Joker can do that as part of his secrets. I am dismissing the possibility that it occured via Matt having targeted him.

Matt's suspicion of Nerolunar is based on Nero talking about the Riddler. Matt is probably The Riddler and thinks Nero is the cop that needs him dead.

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel while you're here if you could explain the obvious differences began your civ and baddie metas I'd appreciate it.

To be honest with you my friend, I'm not sure. For some reason beyond my understanding, I have a lot of trouble at a deep level with being duplicitous. How that presents, I'm not sure (it's kinda like asking someone who's never stepped outside their house what it looks like from the outside...). I suspect because I'm part of a team when I'm Mafia and am subject to the pressure of being responsible to them my posts become uncharacteristicly guarded. When I'm Town, I feel a lot more free to say what I think (albeit in a respectful way). In the context of this game, were I Mafia, I'd probably not have been critical of anyone to this point as I'd imagine I wouldn't want to call any attention to myself. I'm not sure if that answers your question...

Okay, thanks Glorfy. I only ask because earlier you made it sound like anyone who knew your baddie game should know that we're not seeing it here. But do you feel you've been critical of anyone to this point? I just did a quick skim of your posts here and other than your interaction with sig I didn't see anything I'd describe as critical of anyone.

I mean, part of me doubts you would explain your baddie tell while knowing that it matched your play here... but on the other hand you DID just say that you have trouble lying, so who knows :P

I'm told by others that I have played with since I've been playing Mafia that it's easy to tell when I'm drawn Mafia so I'm not sure. In fact the last major game held on the site where I have played most of my games I was specifically requested not to sign up if I considered that I couldn't/wouldn't openly lie during the game, Apparently this request generated from a discussion between game moderators who I expect had come to see the difficulty I have on a personal level at being Mafia. I understand and accept that it is part of the game, I know and don't expect anyone here to believe me (because really all I'm giving you is my word - despite the evidence that proves it) but it is what it is.

And you're right - Sig has been the recipient of most of my enquiry so far but only because I sense something unusual about the way he's playing. This is my third game here and I'm still trying to become familiar with all your playstyles and the mechanical complexity of this game I find overwhelming. Perhaps 'critical' was a poor choice of words. But certainly I have strong opinions about players like Zebra that I probably would not have voiced in the way I did were I Mafia. Again, I don't know that I'm helping you here...

[Enrique]

Funny

I think this post is proof that not every Matt post has to be a knock knock joke is it not?

Um except when you quote it in context one post later?

what do you want?

Funny

Enrique - "Funny who?"

Funny you bring up Zebra's post right now when I'm clearly more interested in telling knock knock jokes.

The way Matt started making these dumbass knock knock posts being almost immediately criticised by Enrique is strange indeed. Perhaps Enrique is the perpetrator.

That's a knock knock.

sig picked up on Matt's curse, and at first I tried to use it to get the Joker's name from him (I hadn't realized he had to be bad at that point), but then when he insisted NO NO HE'S THE RIDDLER I went back and realized what was going down.

Mhm, I think he was trying to be as inoffensive as possible. Why not the two of you, when you've done everything so that no one comes out in your defense?

That said your refusal to address that shit is fishy as fuuuuck.

linki: I'm a little past that by now

This post is aids and I hate it.

Also the posts where you physically threatened Matt are abhorrent.

What's your problem with this post? It's pretty much exactly what you say a post later. Get your shit together, Mac.

I get frustrated when I can't get through to someone. Matt's a big boy he can handle it.

FYI being made "insane" in Mafia role land, is having your targeting ability messed with...

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sanities

Not to mention having a role in the game that amounts to "if you are targeted the player who targets you advertises it to the thread via posting like a retard" and that role being anti-town is a joke.

I had something similar in the game I just finished hosting. There was a civ role that would insanify a player if they belonged to certain groups, and himself if they didn't. On the opposite side I had a baddie that insanified people and could recruit one of those players. We do shit like that because in this site we don't take cues from fucking mafiascum wiki. We've been at this for long enough to have our own rules and roles. I've never heard of Sanity being used in that context here.

(the civ role got lynched because civvies usually suck on this site)

I count one civvie role that even targets another player at night, along with one secret who might.

I count many more baddie ones

The Joker role is designed to hinder Bullock and probably Batman by messing with their abilities accuracy. Not post curse people. Makes far more sense.

So Matt is not cursed via targeting the Joker. Matt is posting in knock knock jokes for a different reasons, perhaps no reason at all.

We'll see about this.

Based soley on result of yesterdays lynch, I wouldn't try to lynch Scotty again btw. (Still 900 posts behind. Still think TH is a badewd.)

I suppose a "thoughts at this point rainbow" may be needed before EoN. I may not be here.
Scotty
Zebra
Mac
Everyone else
Dom
Bea
TH

Yeah, that gives my theory some real plausibility there. Thoughts?

I agree. Tim Drake's power would have worked regardless of who lost the tie. I'd vote to save Scotty today.

By the way, the fact you are the one figuring this out? Thank god I see civ MP, finally.

Can someone explain this theory to me? I still don't really get it, and if I'm wrong about Scotty, I'd like to know.

answer the fucking door i'm zebra's post that you've been ignoring for days

So... that's good timing that Matt put off responding to Zebra's post (to all of our amazement) and now is just *~unable~* to respond. Either it's fake (sus as hell) or Enrique's theory about him being (very likely) bad is true.

I'm assuming this is what happened

Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*

You know what's great about that? Not only do crazy people know who the Joker is, but it narrows down their possible roles by a lot.

So it's not a good look for Matt either way, but I was hoping he could give us a better lynch option for today.

Enrique, i lost you here. Why would someone who is insanified know who the Joker is and why does it narrow down their possible roles?

"The Joker
Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*"


Enrique, are you the Joker?

In Tree Mafia we lynched Enrique as the cop on day 1 when he didn't counter claim Wilgy's fake cop claim tried to create a case on Wilgy (who was the lone cop claimer on day 1). Similar themes.

I didn't feel the need to counter claim because I was in no danger of getting lynched and most of us knew Wilgy was full of shit anyway. Then at the VERY last fucking second you decided I was sus for being so sure about Wilgy faking, lynched me, and then had the nerve to blame me for it. That was the absolute worst fuck up I've ever seen the civs make (along with them lynching Made in my game, wtf) and I have your "instinct" to thank for it. To compare these situations is disingenuous as fuck. This case on Matt fell together on its own, I'm surprised I've even had to explain shit when it's so blatant.

[bea]

So basically you are saying yes Matt was likely cursed but here is why it most likely wasn't by the Joker. Yes?

Linki. Yay!! I understood something!!

I'm not actually dismissing the possibility that he was cursed by The Joker. Maybe The Joker can do that as part of his secrets. I am dismissing the possibility that it occured via Matt having targeted him.

Matt's suspicion of Nerolunar is based on Nero talking about the Riddler. Matt is probably The Riddler and thinks Nero is the cop that needs him dead.

Oh. So I half understood it. I will take what I can get today. Thank you for clarifying.

[MacDougall]

Funny

I think this post is proof that not every Matt post has to be a knock knock joke is it not?

Um except when you quote it in context one post later?

what do you want?

Funny

Enrique - "Funny who?"

Funny you bring up Zebra's post right now when I'm clearly more interested in telling knock knock jokes.

The way Matt started making these dumbass knock knock posts being almost immediately criticised by Enrique is strange indeed. Perhaps Enrique is the perpetrator.

That's a knock knock.

sig picked up on Matt's curse, and at first I tried to use it to get the Joker's name from him (I hadn't realized he had to be bad at that point), but then when he insisted NO NO HE'S THE RIDDLER I went back and realized what was going down.

Mhm, I think he was trying to be as inoffensive as possible. Why not the two of you, when you've done everything so that no one comes out in your defense?

That said your refusal to address that shit is fishy as fuuuuck.

linki: I'm a little past that by now

This post is aids and I hate it.

Also the posts where you physically threatened Matt are abhorrent.

What's your problem with this post? It's pretty much exactly what you say a post later. Get your shit together, Mac.

I hate the tone. I hate how you are playing this game. The content is no what I was referring to.

I get frustrated when I can't get through to someone. Matt's a big boy he can handle it.

No, you have no right to physically threaten anybody. Please desist.

FYI being made "insane" in Mafia role land, is having your targeting ability messed with...

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sanities

Not to mention having a role in the game that amounts to "if you are targeted the player who targets you advertises it to the thread via posting like a retard" and that role being anti-town is a joke.

I had something similar in the game I just finished hosting. There was a civ role that would insanify a player if they belonged to certain groups, and himself if they didn't. On the opposite side I had a baddie that insanified people and could recruit one of those players. We do shit like that because in this site we don't take cues from fucking mafiascum wiki. We've been at this for long enough to have our own rules and roles. I've never heard of Sanity being used in that context here.

(the civ role got lynched because civvies usually suck on this site)

Post cursing, ON THIS SITE, is referred to as being cursed. Not being made insane. Please stop belittling me. Please stop playing like this. It is not cool.

I count one civvie role that even targets another player at night, along with one secret who might.

I count many more baddie ones

The Joker role is designed to hinder Bullock and probably Batman by messing with their abilities accuracy. Not post curse people. Makes far more sense.

So Matt is not cursed via targeting the Joker. Matt is posting in knock knock jokes for a different reasons, perhaps no reason at all.

We'll see about this.

Based soley on result of yesterdays lynch, I wouldn't try to lynch Scotty again btw. (Still 900 posts behind. Still think TH is a badewd.)

I suppose a "thoughts at this point rainbow" may be needed before EoN. I may not be here.
Scotty
Zebra
Mac
Everyone else
Dom
Bea
TH

Yeah, that gives my theory some real plausibility there. Thoughts?

I agree. Tim Drake's power would have worked regardless of who lost the tie. I'd vote to save Scotty today.

By the way, the fact you are the one figuring this out? Thank god I see civ MP, finally.

Can someone explain this theory to me? I still don't really get it, and if I'm wrong about Scotty, I'd like to know.

answer the fucking door i'm zebra's post that you've been ignoring for days

So... that's good timing that Matt put off responding to Zebra's post (to all of our amazement) and now is just *~unable~* to respond. Either it's fake (sus as hell) or Enrique's theory about him being (very likely) bad is true.

I'm assuming this is what happened

Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*

You know what's great about that? Not only do crazy people know who the Joker is, but it narrows down their possible roles by a lot.

So it's not a good look for Matt either way, but I was hoping he could give us a better lynch option for today.

Enrique, i lost you here. Why would someone who is insanified know who the Joker is and why does it narrow down their possible roles?

"The Joker
Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*"


Enrique, are you the Joker?

In Tree Mafia we lynched Enrique as the cop on day 1 when he didn't counter claim Wilgy's fake cop claim tried to create a case on Wilgy (who was the lone cop claimer on day 1). Similar themes.

I didn't feel the need to counter claim because I was in no danger of getting lynched and most of us knew Wilgy was full of shit anyway. Then at the VERY last fucking second you decided I was sus for being so sure about Wilgy faking, lynched me, and then had the nerve to blame me for it. That was the absolute worst fuck up I've ever seen the civs make (along with them lynching Made in my game, wtf) and I have your "instinct" to thank for it. To compare these situations is disingenuous as fuck. This case on Matt fell together on its own, I'm surprised I've even had to explain shit when it's so blatant.
No, Enrique, it is not disingenuous as fuck. I am sensing similar themes. You have seen something you think is confirmed and are acting like it is without establishing why. It is very similar. Also, you got lynched because you were acting scummy. I read you wrong. Please stop playing like this. It is not cool

I am not going to interact with you further in this game unless you stop with the threats and intimidation tactics. It's ridiculous.

[MacDougall]

Linki holy crap guys. Im NOT the Riddler, Im genuinely interested in what he does and I see no reason not to talk about it.

Holy crap guys. Im NOT the Riddler. Sounds tonally like "Holy crap guys I can't believe you have incorrect reasons for thinking I am bad even though I am."

[MacDougall]

Epignosis you clearly intended for us to know what it means to be insane. Can you please clarify whether you mean that the person targeting him is post cursed?

[Epignosis]

Epignosis you clearly intended for us to know what it means to be insane. Can you please clarify whether you mean that the person targeting him is post cursed?

Me? Clarify things when shit is getting good?

[MacDougall]

Enrique, who NEVER EVER asked me who I thought was the Joker, bit INSTEAD asked me who I think we should lynch, effing BS Enrique.

I think that's a trivial distinction. You're the one who answered by bringing up Nero mentioning the Riddler. How did you expect that would translate?

How is it a trivial distinction? It's actually crucial to the point. Enrique asked Matt who we should lynch, Matt said nero. Then Enrique went on to raise points against Matt based on the fact that Matt said that he was Joker which wasn't even the question Enrique asked.

[Enrique]

Dude why are you making me out to be some sort of bully? Sorry Mac, I think you're wrong. I believe all of this shit, and this thread has been witness to pretty much my whole thought process throughout the day. I have established every single why and don't appreciate being dismissed so easily as if I hadn't laid it all out.

"Made insane" is extremely vague. Now, I'm not super duper familiar with Batman lore, but I remember stuff like the Joker turning people into clowns and stuff like that. Does the Riddler make people make knock knock jokes? I could see something like "post in riddles only," but even considering knock knock jokes riddles is a stretch, and surely Matt could come up with anything else at least for one post. I'm looking at something that's right there in the roles, and I find this a lot easier to believe than just making up a whole new role to excuse him.

okay since WHEN do we have on the smiley sidebar? I swear I hadn't seen that little fuck since Piano days. I haven't seen Kadaj in some time, either, wonder what he's been up to.

linki: No. Please read the context of the posts you quote.

[Enrique]

Enrique, who NEVER EVER asked me who I thought was the Joker, bit INSTEAD asked me who I think we should lynch, effing BS Enrique.

I think that's a trivial distinction. You're the one who answered by bringing up Nero mentioning the Riddler. How did you expect that would translate?

How is it a trivial distinction? It's actually crucial to the point. Enrique asked Matt who we should lynch, Matt said nero. Then Enrique went on to raise points against Matt based on the fact that Matt said that he was Joker which wasn't even the question Enrique asked.

and don't make stuff up?

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel while you're here if you could explain the obvious differences began your civ and baddie metas I'd appreciate it.

To be honest with you my friend, I'm not sure. For some reason beyond my understanding, I have a lot of trouble at a deep level with being duplicitous. How that presents, I'm not sure (it's kinda like asking someone who's never stepped outside their house what it looks like from the outside...).well, no. That would mean that you've never been Mafia. Which you have. I suspect because I'm part of a team when I'm Mafia and am subject to the pressure of being responsible to them my posts become uncharacteristicly guarded. When I'm Town, I feel a lot more free to say what I think (albeit in a respectful way). In the context of this game, were I Mafia, I'd probably not have been critical of anyone to this point as I'd imagine I wouldn't want to call any attention to myself. I'm not sure if that answers your question...
ive got a question for you: have you ever been independent? Because you're being somewhat forthcoming with your tells as Mafia, but what about the other like 10 roles in the game?

As for this game, I confess I'm completely flummoxed at trying to work out a lot of what is going on. The whole MP thing? I was Mafia with him in Star Wars (for a time) and from what he's posted so far, I'm not getting a Star Wars vibe from him at all. I also don't think his calling Scotty out was necessarily a bad thing (although perhaps it's not that good for Scotty ). thanks for your concern. I was suspicious of Matt early on (and his knock, knock riddles are far beyond the point of driving me crazy). Again, Zebra's influence is key in that situation for me. I'd expect her reaction to him this Day phase to be quite different after Day 1. Yes, I know that she for all intents and purposes was a proponent of the information reveal thing last Day phase but if I have any skill at all in reading people in these games, I'm reading her as non-Mafia and very likely Town. youa tart by saying you don't know what to make of things, then you proceed to make of things.

Someone pointed out earlier how finely balanced this game is between Town and non-Town and I fear it could slip from our grasp very quickly. Having said that, I don't know that we're that far advanced from where we were at the end of the last Day phase. Personally, I keep waiting for an epiphany based on the information I receive from our nocturnal visits but nothing yet... this whole paragraph smells of elderberry. It sounds like a feinting war cry from a little boy in a Viking costume wearing armor that should only be worn by his dad. It looks like a fortune cookie with 2 blank fortunes.

Your WIFOM about what you would do if you were actually Mafia is hollow and honestly I don't even think it warrants an answer to TH.

Hey, Scotty. Thanks for your response to my post. Firstly, may I respectfully request that you refrain from posting in that pale yellow font. I'm using an available theme for this site and that colour font is near impossible to read - thanks for your consideration. Secondly, I'm a tart? Thank you kindly for that assessment of my character - I didn't think you knew me that well

Seriously though, yes. I was a third party once (in a Teen Wolf Mafia game) and I enjoyed it immensely. I was a vigilante and I made it my business to hunt Mafia and picked off one that no one suspected Night 1 (sadly it was one of those deals where the role is targeted as an NK, it kills the role that targeted it...). For the same reason that I like being Town (a degree of independence that I don't think Mafia have) I think being independent might be better especially if you have some kind of ability but unfortunately that is not my fate in this game.

As for your last remark, I find it belittling and insulting and frankly beneath someone of your stature on this site. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I completely respect your right to not believe anything I say but I find that response unnecessarily personal and unworthy of this site if it truly purports to be a place where these games are meant to be fun and respectful.

[DharmaHelper]

Tired and still not caught up, but I've been shotgun skimming and I noticed SVS called me "90% civ" I would like to know what brought you to that conclusion SVS.

[MacDougall]

Solid tactic. Stop replying when you're out of arguments. Sure worked against Zebra, didn't it?

He stopped posting when he ran out of patience with you misrepresenting him while he is limited to posting in knock knock jokes.

Dude why are you making me out to be some sort of bully? Sorry Mac, I think you're wrong. I believe all of this shit, and this thread has been witness to pretty much my whole thought process throughout the day. I have established every single why and don't appreciate being dismissed so easily as if I hadn't laid it all out.

Because you said you would put his head through a wall among other things.

"Made insane" is extremely vague. Now, I'm not super duper familiar with Batman lore, but I remember stuff like the Joker turning people into clowns and stuff like that. Does the Riddler make people make knock knock jokes? I could see something like "post in riddles only," but even considering knock knock jokes riddles is a stretch, and surely Matt could come up with anything else at least for one post. I'm looking at something that's right there in the roles, and I find this a lot easier to believe than just making up a whole new role to excuse him.

Yes made insane is extremely vague except for the fact that I have hosted and played in games where insane is used to describe having your accuracy fucked with when you have an investigative role, which makes a shit ton of sense for Joker. Further to that, if the role acted the way you described I would imagine it would say cursed not made insane. And him having targeted the Joker appears to be pretty much crucial to your point, which has been the dominant discourse of the day and is shaky at best, obviously incorrect at worst and something that the host should be able to simply clarify. If he says that by insane he means cursed, then great!

okay since WHEN do we have on the smiley sidebar? I swear I hadn't seen that little fuck since Piano days. I haven't seen Kadaj in some time, either, wonder what he's been up to.

linki: No. Please read the context of the posts you quote.

[MacDougall]

Epignosis you clearly intended for us to know what it means to be insane. Can you please clarify whether you mean that the person targeting him is post cursed?

Me? Clarify things when shit is getting good?

Lol ok.

[Enrique]

He stopped posting when he ran out of patience with you misrepresenting him while he is limited to posting in knock knock jokes.

I hope I see you in an argument with Matt some day.

[DharmaHelper]

Enrique before I go to bed can you (succinctly) explain your case on Matt so that I can read it for context once I start trudging through the rest of the thread tomorrow? :P

[Enrique]

He's cursed, and the only hint of something like that given by the roles list is people who target the Joker being "made insane." Out of all the roles that target people at night, only two (I originally thought one, TH corrected me) are civs. I thought Matt claimed one of those, but then it turned out that either he didn't or he got caught lying. I think the other roles are likelier and he hasn't tried to make sense in his defense so my mind is unchanged.

[MacDougall]

Disregarding secrets, the only role with a curse I can see is The Joker. Unless I'm missing something?

This is actually a very suspect post is it not? Bullzeye fanning the flames of Enrique's false case which further misinformation that borders on a lie since he uses the word "curse" when it doesn't actually mention that in the role at all.

[MacDougall]

He's cursed, and the only hint of something like that given by the roles list is people who target the Joker being "made insane." Out of all the roles that target people at night, only two (I originally thought one, TH corrected me) are civs. I thought Matt claimed one of those, but then it turned out that either he didn't or he got caught lying. I think the other roles are likelier and he hasn't tried to make sense in his defense so my mind is unchanged.

Joker might curse people in his secrets to write in jokes, but there is a slim to nil chance of the curse being the result of him being targeted because if it was, then the person who targets him would find out, start posting in curses and everyone would lynch the guy the cursed dude is voting for. Even if in practice that didn't occur, it would have been dismissed in setup as too probable. And as if you would give such a role to an anti-town player, much less The Joker.

You are tunneling Matt and disregarding clear logic.

[MacDougall]

@Hosts: Do role-blocking powers affect passive powers such as the Joker insanifying whoever targets him?

So, in theory, if Zucco/Szasz/Fries tried to block the Joker, would they be insanified?

Lol.

[MacDougall]

Matt stops playing whenever he feels cornered. This isn't new.

Matt just won the GoC as scum who was cornered and didn't back off, he attacked, and convinced.

[MacDougall]

What am I making up?

Matt, who do you think we should lynch today? Any players you think might be bad (or "independent")?

linki @ mp: Just explained. But also, isn't this how Bubbles always plays? Is she "default bad" for you every time?

In which Enrique asks who Matt thinks is bad, not who he thought was The Joker.

Nero

In which Matt answers.

Nero are you the Joker?

In which it is Enrique who introduces the Joker theory to the equation immediately afterwards.

Enrique - "Nero who?"

Nero, he who constantly brings up the Riddler.

In which Matt attempts to clarify that he is accusing Nero of being Riddler, for in thread reasons, not for Joker for Enrique tinfoil reasons.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Enrique

Enrique who?

Enrique, do you think Nero is bad, and if so, do you think he is my partner or do you think he is the Joker, and if you think he is my partner, how does that make sense with your theory that I was insane by Joker and then NAME MY OWN TEAMMATE AS SOMEONE WE SHOULD LYNCH???

*sigh*

This is what happened.

I asked you who's the Joker.

You said Nero.

I asked Nero if he's the joker.

You flipped out I MEAN THE RIDDLER DIPSHIT.

I said oh well you're bad anyway.

Nero pulled a ridiculous factually wrong defense of you.

I said Nero that's sus as shit. If Matt is Mafia I'm looking at you.

You said WHY DON'T YOU THINK HE'S THE JOKER I JUST NAMED HIM.

I said, you just said he's the Riddler.

You said THEN WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S THE JOKER.

???

Matt you've all but claimed a role at this point, and if that claim is true then you're being genuinely terrible this game because not one thing you've said makes an ooze of sense. I may not vote for you if Zebra doesn't show up today, so cross your fingers and quit the bullshit.

In which Enrique says that he asked a question he did not ask.

So which part was I making up Enrique?

[MacDougall]

I find it ironic that Matt, fabled for his tinfoil whacky cases is victim to one right here. Height of irony in fact. Enrique are you sure you aren't just trolling Matt?

[MacDougall]

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Nero

Nero who?

Nero, who jumped on TH with the "we" thing earlier, then TH lightly sussed him eventually dropping it completely, now TH is defending his honor?

Matthew that was exactly the basis for this point.

My beef with SVS isn't that she missed the vote or that she wanted to vote for her top suspect. It's that she was in "Anyone but me" mode at the early stages of EoD and that seemingly continued right up until the buzzer. She didn't give reads on Scotty or Wilgy and I recall her being suspicious of Zebra but didn't put a vote there. That gives me a distinctly indy vibe from her and I'd like her to prove that vibe wrong. I plan on giving her some breathing room to operate Day 2 because I know it's easy to lose sight of other things when you're fighting for your own life.

Wilgy and bea are my top suspects. I told Wilgy I'd present him with my history lesson so for anyone curious here's his ISO from Recruitment IV (unrecruited then civ) and Pikmin (where he was civ and, in this very thread, claims to have barely played). Let the record show that in Pikmin he had 22 posts in the first 48 hours of the game and attempted to engage multiple players in multiple discussions. In this game he had 8 posts in the first 72 hours, granted this game is of larger scale than Pikmin. In Star Wars he had 5 posts in the first 72 hours. Take from that what you will. But his rate of posting isn't the only reason he's suspicious to me. The only player I see him engaging in meaningful discussion here is Mac who he's agreeing with, I don't see him trying to engage in discussions with others who's opinions do not line up with his own, unless it's to defend himself or toss out a quick read. As I said before Wilgy could go a long way toward changing my mind by proving he's engaged with the game, and I didn't get him lynched Day 1 so he has that chance now.

For bea I feel she is trying to fly under the radar. I said before that her lack of catch up posts makes me think she's reading the thread and reacting to it at different times and that makes me feel like she's trying to be careful. She did say that she wasn't doing her catch-up posts because she gets flak for doing them but I hereby give her permission to do them again because those posts help me get the best feel for her as a player. In addition I've mentioned her a few times now but those mentions seem to have gone unnoticed and I don't know bea to be a player who doesn't respond to posts about her. When bea is civ I can usually feel it and I'm not feeling it this game. She too has a chance to prove her civvieness to me going forward. And you know I love ya bea.

I agree with your feelings towards bea. I am wondering why Nerolunar isn't on your list though.

[Enrique]

The part where the question asked is the least important thing in that post.

How can you say I'm tunneling Matt when I've been involved in pretty much every conversation had today?

[MacDougall]

The part where the question asked is the least important thing in that post.

How can you say I'm tunneling Matt when I've been involved in pretty much every conversation had today?

Because you've been tunneling Matt while you've been involved in every conversation had today.

[MacDougall]

The part where the question asked is the least important thing in that post.

This is not an answer to the question I just asked at all. What did I make up?

[MacDougall]

holy FUCK matt if you dont shut up about nero i will kick your teeth right in. I've said all I have to say about Nero, you're free to fucking read my posts for once.

Matt I will put you through a fucking wall.

Do you think these posts are in the spirit of the game Enrique?

[Enrique]

Okay whatever that means.

Mac I will give you that the curse/sanity thing is the best argument I've heard against this. The only other thing that's put some doubt in my mind is Zebra still thinking he's genuine after he overshared with her. Which still was not enough for me. I think he's bad and I think he targeted the Joker.

linki: None of my arguments had anything to do with Matt saying / not saying Nero was the Joker! Christ, he's the one who tried to use that against me. If you read the context, he's the one alternating between WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S BAD and WHY DON'T YOU THINK HE'S BAD. Nero was never part of my case against Matt. I speculated they could be teammates but that was on Nero's side entirely.

linki2: I think you're blowing them out of proportion. Everyone who was there could tell Matt was ignoring my posts and just flat out fucking with me. Sometimes I run out of patience. I'm not gonna put Matt through a wall I hope he knows that.

[MacDougall]

What did I make up?

[Enrique]

Then Enrique went on to raise points against Matt based on the fact that Matt said that he was Joker which wasn't even the question Enrique asked.

Are we gonna have to do this all over again?

[MacDougall]

I quoted the post that you did exactly that in.

[Enrique]

Oh Christ this is so not worth it. I'm going to bed. Sometimes I get the feeling you just read random spread out posts so you can quote them and pretend you've read the thread. I did no such thing and you're free to find that out by yourself. Bye.

[Marmot]

Howdy Arkham players. See you all tomorrow when I make my 10 page catch-up.

[MacDougall]

Oh Christ this is so not worth it. I'm going to bed. Sometimes I get the feeling you just read random spread out posts so you can quote them and pretend you've read the thread. I did no such thing and you're free to find that out by yourself. Bye.

You are doing what you made a negative point against Matt for doing twice.

[Enrique]

The difference is I've addressed the issue and you're just refusing to hear it. Read that post you quoted again. That is me responding to Matt's faulty logic. It is not a "case" against him. Mac you don't need me to point this out. I never raised any points against Matt based on what he said there. Thank you and good night.

[MacDougall]

The difference is I've addressed the issue and you're just refusing to hear it. Read that post you quoted again. That is me responding to Matt's faulty logic. It is not a "case" against him. Mac you don't need me to point this out. I never raised any points against Matt based on what he said there. Thank you and good night.

You did use it in a post intending to draw criticism against him Enrique. I quoted the post. I questioned Turnip Head saying it was irrelevant because I think the fact that you said it is worth noting.

You asked Matt who he thought was bad, he said Nero. Later you said he said he was the Joker, which he did not. The fact that nobody pulled you up on it is proof that nobody read the detail enough and/or didn't want to. I'm not saying you did it from a place of ill intent, but you can't be feeding negative perceptions of a guy based on misinformation lest you give others the opportunity to just accept it and vote accordingly.

If someone had have read your post, and not the original interaction, they may have taken what you said at face value and used it to formulate their own opinion. This is the issue.

The fact that you criticise me saying sometimes it seems like I don't read the thread is funny since it appears as though I am the one paying the most attention here.

[MacDougall]

I'm feeling that Zebra is civ y'all.

She's not flingin shit everywhere like baddie Zebra, and her focus and frustrations seem to be that of civ Zebra.

DrWilgy, why do we fall?

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hope that Metalmarsh wasn't inferring that he is Alfred and Wilgy was Bruce Wayne.

[MacDougall]

At any rate that's another reason why the Mafia could have killed Wilgy, because it seems like Metalmarsh is soft-claiming Alfred in more than just that post tbh. But that post would surely be too obvious if he was serious about it? Perhaps Metalmarsh target painted someone who is not Bruce on purpose to protect him from a kill.

Interesting though, perhaps the scum picked up on it and therein lies the reason why the Wilgy wagon started and his subsequent death occurred.

[MacDougall]

Haha funny shit if Batman and Robin were in the coinflip on day 1.

[Turnip Head]

Enrique, who NEVER EVER asked me who I thought was the Joker, bit INSTEAD asked me who I think we should lynch, effing BS Enrique.

I think that's a trivial distinction. You're the one who answered by bringing up Nero mentioning the Riddler. How did you expect that would translate?

How is it a trivial distinction? It's actually crucial to the point. Enrique asked Matt who we should lynch, Matt said nero. Then Enrique went on to raise points against Matt based on the fact that Matt said that he was Joker which wasn't even the question Enrique asked.

Because when Enrique asks "Who should we lynch, Matt?" the implied question behind that is "Who do you think is the Joker?" When Matt answers "Nero", Enrique asks the follow up question "Nero are you the Joker?"

So the two questions are the same question. The distinction means nothing. All it really shows is that Matt wasn't considering the Joker angle.

[Turnip Head]

I'm feeling that Zebra is civ y'all.

She's not flingin shit everywhere like baddie Zebra, and her focus and frustrations seem to be that of civ Zebra.

DrWilgy, why do we fall?

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hope that Metalmarsh wasn't inferring that he is Alfred and Wilgy was Bruce Wayne.

Why do we fall Mac?

[Golden]

Enrique, who NEVER EVER asked me who I thought was the Joker, bit INSTEAD asked me who I think we should lynch, effing BS Enrique.

I think that's a trivial distinction. You're the one who answered by bringing up Nero mentioning the Riddler. How did you expect that would translate?

How is it a trivial distinction? It's actually crucial to the point. Enrique asked Matt who we should lynch, Matt said nero. Then Enrique went on to raise points against Matt based on the fact that Matt said that he was Joker which wasn't even the question Enrique asked.

Because when Enrique asks "Who should we lynch, Matt?" the implied question behind that is "Who do you think is the Joker?" When Matt answers "Nero", Enrique asks the follow up question "Nero are you the Joker?"

So the two questions are the same question. The distinction means nothing. All it really shows is that Matt wasn't considering the Joker angle.

Well, it could show any of these to me:

1) Matt wasn't considering the joker angle
2) Matt saw early that suggesting he has been hit by the joker would give him bad odds of being good, so he deliberately played against it
3) Matt is considering the joker angle, and trying to get nero lynched, while obfuscating and looking crazy to make sure he can't be pinged for infodumping.

[Turnip Head]

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Nero

Nero who?

Nero, who jumped on TH with the "we" thing earlier, then TH lightly sussed him eventually dropping it completely, now TH is defending his honor?

Matthew that was exactly the basis for this point.

[snip]

I agree with your feelings towards bea. I am wondering why Nerolunar isn't on your list though.

What's hilarious is that I spent all day defending Matt and Enrique, probably the two hardest people to defend atm, and Nero is the only one of the three that I suspect and I've done literally nothing to "defend his honor"... and that's STILL the fucking post that Matt makes

[Turnip Head]

Enrique, who NEVER EVER asked me who I thought was the Joker, bit INSTEAD asked me who I think we should lynch, effing BS Enrique.

I think that's a trivial distinction. You're the one who answered by bringing up Nero mentioning the Riddler. How did you expect that would translate?

How is it a trivial distinction? It's actually crucial to the point. Enrique asked Matt who we should lynch, Matt said nero. Then Enrique went on to raise points against Matt based on the fact that Matt said that he was Joker which wasn't even the question Enrique asked.

Because when Enrique asks "Who should we lynch, Matt?" the implied question behind that is "Who do you think is the Joker?" When Matt answers "Nero", Enrique asks the follow up question "Nero are you the Joker?"

So the two questions are the same question. The distinction means nothing. All it really shows is that Matt wasn't considering the Joker angle.

Well, it could show any of these to me:

1) Matt wasn't considering the joker angle
2) Matt saw early that suggesting he has been hit by the joker would give him bad odds of being good, so he deliberately played against it
3) Matt is considering the joker angle, and trying to get nero lynched, while obfuscating and looking crazy to make sure he can't be pinged for infodumping.

Okay, well I think 1 is the likeliest. If 3 was his goal there would have been easier and clearer ways to accomplish it than denying it completely.

Re: 2, do you think anyone who targets the Joker is going to be forced to make it obvious in the thread? I think Mac makes a great point about this being an unlikely mechanic. Unless the Joker's secrets say "cannot be killed under any circumstances" that would be the shittiest role of all time.

[Golden]

No, I think the point about why 2 is unlikely is pretty sound. It's the same thing I was trying to say in Star Wars when Mac thought I might be on Team Hutt... Epi is not going to create mechanics that out people outright in the thread.

On the other hand, I'm trying to figure out how the joker thing will work without at least informing the person who targetted him.

[Golden]

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Nero

Nero who?

Nero, who jumped on TH with the "we" thing earlier, then TH lightly sussed him eventually dropping it completely, now TH is defending his honor?

Matthew that was exactly the basis for this point.

[snip]

I agree with your feelings towards bea. I am wondering why Nerolunar isn't on your list though.

What's hilarious is that I spent all day defending Matt and Enrique, probably the two hardest people to defend atm, and Nero is the only one of the three that I suspect and I've done literally nothing to "defend his honor"... and that's STILL the fucking post that Matt makes

I'm just about done figuring out Matt. I think his thoughts have been all over the place this game... they were so inconsistent on day one (and inconsistent with what I'd expect from him) that it led me to vote for him. They have been even more scattered today. Not sure what to make of it.

[MacDougall]

No, I think the point about why 2 is unlikely is pretty sound. It's the same thing I was trying to say in Star Wars when Mac thought I might be on Team Hutt... Epi is not going to create mechanics that out people outright in the thread.

On the other hand, I'm trying to figure out how the joker thing will work without at least informing the person who targetted him.

Players with insane roles don't know they are insane. I am sure he is using insanity by it's traditional definition here. If someone with investigative powers targets Joker it's going to fuck up their ability and they won't know it.

[MacDougall]

I think Matt is pretty much regular Matt here. What you described is Matt's usual play isn't it? I would argue that GoC Matt was the most clear headed logical version of Matt I have seen and he was my scum teammate.