The Syndicate

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:02 pm**

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention] is the issue with the scale, or the people on the scale?

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:07 pm**

~24 hours to go.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:08 pm**

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:54 pm I'm not going through 83 pages of that game unless I can do ISO's, but I at see that his activity over there was more 'burst-like' than his scum game in Felt. His activity there was significantly lower and less involved. What's your scum game like DDL? I'll take your word for it.

I can't tell you what my scum game is like precisely because it was absolute garbage about a year ago and since then I've been trying to change it. I'm going to say what I've been trying to do.

I can tell you I make an effort to be friendly and honest, and say any thought that comes to my mind that helps me look town, so people believe I'm sincere. I'm a naturally empathetic person, so I make sure whenever I get the urge to act like a decent person, it's used to my advantage. I try to make my reads feel natural and I randomly make civ/baddie reads on everyone, with not much regard for whether it fulfills my scum agenda, because the point is looking like I'm acting naturally.

In the past I would look too careful and nervous, and people would catch it, so now I'm trying to flip a "cool" switch when I'm bad. I think it's working.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:09 pm**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:07 pm ~24 hours to go.

8am phase ends means i can be around for once

oh, how you spoil me cap'n sloonbeard

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:10 pm**

For example, there was this one game where I made a heartfelt apology to a player for a fight I had with him in a previous game. The apology was heartfelt, but I chose my words wisely to make other people watching think it was coming from a civ perspective.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:12 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:57 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:54 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:59 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:47 pmAre you suuuuuuure that scale isn't 2-4? Because these reads look very soft.
It's day one, friendo. Anyone who says they feel confident about anything is lying.
The question was about whether you should be reading those people as more baddies than just 2-4, not about confidence. Right now it seems you are reading all of them as civs.
why does it seem like that to you?

If in a scale of civ-bad that goes from 0 to 10 everyone is 2-4, doesn't it mean they are all civs?

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:13 pm**

Tell me if you guys have further problems at making that ISO, btw. I'm afraid you need to make an account, but after that it should be very straightforward. Just use the search button and pick the "search in this thread" option. Then start writing my name in the author field and the forum should complete it for you.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:14 pm**

Though if you want an example in this site, I was bad in The Search for Quin

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 106&t=1405

But I died in like day 3, so not a perfect example.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:15 pm**

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:13 pm Tell me if you guys have further problems at making that ISO, btw. I'm afraid you need to make an account, but after that it should be very straightforward. Just use the search button and pick the "search in this thread" option. Then start writing my name in the author field and the forum should complete it for you.

I'll get on it later today.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:17 pm**

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:54 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:59 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:47 pmAre you suuuuuuure that scale isn't 2-4? Because these reads look very soft.
It's day one, friendo. Anyone who says they feel confident about anything is lying.
The question was about whether you should be reading those people as more baddies than just 2-4, not about confidence. Right now it seems you are reading all of them as civs.

The people i read as goodish to varying degrees were Dunya, LC, sig, and speedchuck.

The people i read as leaning bad were DDL, Quin, and SD (as a wakeup call)

MP was average and Dr. Wilgy is probably also average at least until votes happen.

Everyone else only has 1 post so they're useless to judge yet.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:18 pm**

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:12 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:57 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:54 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:59 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:47 pmAre you suuuuuuure that scale isn't 2-4? Because these reads look very soft.
It's day one, friendo. Anyone who says they feel confident about anything is lying.
The question was about whether you should be reading those people as more baddies than just 2-4, not about confidence. Right now it seems you are reading all of them as civs.
why does it seem like that to you?
If in a scale of civ-bad that goes from 0 to 10 everyone is 2-4, doesn't it mean they are all civs?

the scale goes from 1-5 and the higher numbers were more civ, you had it backwards and squished.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:19 pm**

Ok cool.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:20 pm**

i'm not all that sold on some of those reads anymore

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:17 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:05 pmKyle's post seems to be very careful, but there's also a fair amount of content and it's still early in the game to have concrete reads so I like that
i also want to point out, this is my first real mafia game in 3-4 years so i am still kind of in the awkwardly climbing back onto the horse stage

Yes to whoever asked this is common of Wilgy regardless of his alignment.
so he just.... does this? the whole game? every game?

Most games he does something for a phase or so then starts posting.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:31 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:00 pm So you basically agree with me then, buuuuut you're lynching me.

I made my case of 1 not fake claiming and 2. only claiming if you have a red check to be very clear. However, this is obviously speed just messing around and poking me.

Also my original sites were super heavy on role claiming, games that allow claiming are my bread and butter. This is quite literally the best strategy for a watcher/cop/info role to use if claiming is allowed. Otherwise you end up sitting on a red check for to long and the other players either miss it or the mafia can manipulate your posts after death, I've done it successfully countless times.
Whether the cop claiming is a good thing or not is irrelevant to my read on you.

What forms my read on you is the fact you are fishing for the cop's role. I think that is suspicious.

I'm not fishing for the cop role though, i'm specifically saying they shouldn't come out and nobody should fake claim them until they have actionable intelligence that'll for sure net a baddie. This is the opposite of trying to fish for their role this is telling them what to do in case of a red check. Something no mafia member would do since it horrible exposes them if/when there's a red check. ALSO at best assuming we lynch a civ tonight it gets us to 12 players three of whom are mafia that means 9/3 So they've got over a 10% chance of killing the cop and every phase another player is lynched and players are night killed the chance that the cop gets killed increases, so with a game this small that allows role claiming the cop should and I imagine will claim as soon as they get a red check. This isn't and never was role fishing this is common sense and strategy.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:42 pm Also i'm getting deja vu on the Sig thing. From other times where he did things that looked silly but he was just being himself.

Why are you back peddling.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:20 pm**

I don't want to lynch Kyle I love Kyle...............minus his dog question since they're evil.

If we're going to lynch someone based on weak reasoning we should lynch either LC or someone who hasn't posted at all.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:23 pm**

Look here y'all, I'm going to a concert tonight so don't expect too much of me.ive read and caught up to now and I have like three or four things to say.

1. MP pressure voting me is a fucking joke. It's one thing for someone to pressure vote jevwho doesn't live in the same house as me, but cone on. You know I'm not even caught up to the thread, it's not like I'm lurking and hiding. It's a joke, and really easy. Don't get me wrong, it's not definitely suspicious it's just teally easy to look like he's doing something when he's not. Don't let him get away with such a soft pressure vote in the future without questioning it.

2. Fake claiming when done properly absolutely can and has won the civs games. Arrested Development cones to mind, when Turnip Head and MP fake claimed and provided me cover as the cop for two nights, allowing me to find them and out them. Even in Seinfeld I was night killed night 1 because the baddies thought I was role claiming. I wasn't, but it's better to lose a vanilla than a power role N1. Additionally, seeing who the baddies kill based on their fake claims can also help us sort who be good a la seer hunt clear. Fake cop claims can be a great tool for the civs when done right.

3. Dunya, you come from RYM I thought you guys used this type of thing over there even more here. And having heard how great your civ game and instinct is, you arguing so solidly against fake claims not only surprises me but makes me suspect you.

4. My guy says DDL bad. I can't put my finger on why, but in my read my gut spoke and I am sharing it because I usually regret it later. I'll look into an ISO of him tomorrow to see if I can identify why.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:26 pm**

Wow don't pay attention to my typos. I'm posting from a phone.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:41 pm**

umm dunya from RYM says mafia/scum would fakeclaim on rym to save their arses, indeed, many mods would give one member of the mafia team a free fakeclaim sometimes even! -- but civs would not fakeclaim. except maybe rundontwalk but he was so eccentric and would get lynched literally the same day.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:42 pm**

~my experience---- in games dunya has played in~

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pm**

Dragon

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pmDragon

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:47 pm**

i still think everyone pushing for fake claims underestimate how much effort it goes into building evidence and reads, and fake claims can literally blow them away if believed because one person can impact everyone. then you get into fake reads, and people putting effort into analyzing and building new cases on those.

How can you not see that as counterproductive?

This is mafia. This is a team-game. The cop does not win this game for us. The Cop is not the everything, everywhere, at all costs kinda guy. We don't sacrifice everything for the cop, that's just silly or we'd change the whole basis of this game.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 pm**

If that's the norm for The Syndicate, then fine, but I don't have to like it--indeed I don't.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pmDragon

https://www.narutoforums.org/search/8347121/?page=7

How do I make a link

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:49 pm**

I don't even know why we're arguing about this-- if someone's going to fake claim, they're going to fake claim.

But here's my frown. I'm frowning at you.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:53 pm**

does that link i posted actually go to anything?

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:55 pm**

DDL, what is your mafia history? How long have you played on each site?

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:55 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:53 pm does that link i posted actually go to anything?

no sorry, broken page.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:59 pm**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:23 pm Look here y'all, I'm going to a concert tonight so don't expect too much of me.ive read and caught up to now and I have like three or four things to say.

1. MP pressure voting me is a fucking joke. It's one thing for someone to pressure vote jevwho doesn't live in the same house as me, but cone on. You know I'm not even caught up to the thread, it's not like I'm lurking and hiding. It's a joke, and really easy. Don't get me wrong, it's not definitely suspicious it's just teally easy to look like he's doing something when he's not. Don't let him get away with such a soft pressure vote in the future without questioning it.

2. Fake claiming when done properly absolutely can and has won the civs games. Arrested Development cones to mind, when Turnip Head and MP fake claimed and provided me cover as the cop for two nights, allowing me to find them and out them. Even in Seinfeld I was night killed night 1 because the baddies thought I was role claiming. I wasn't, but it's better to lose a vanilla than a power role N1. Additionally, seeing who the baddies kill based on their fake claims can also help us sort who be good a la seer hunt clear. Fake cop claims can be a great tool for the civs when done right.

3. Dunya, you come from RYM I thought you guys used this type of thing over there even more here. And having heard how great your civ game and instinct is, you arguing so solidly against fake claims not only surprises me but makes me suspect you.

4. My guy says DDL bad. I can't put my finger on why, but in my read my gut spoke and I am sharing it because I usually regret it later. I'll look into an ISO of him tomorrow to see if I can identify why.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:00 pm**

sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:17 pm Why are you back peddling.

Because I doubt my own ability to read you. It's usually wrong.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:01 pm**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:23 pm 1. MP pressure voting me is a fucking joke. It's one thing for someone to pressure vote jevwho doesn't live in the same house as me, but cone on. You know I'm not even caught up to the thread, it's not like I'm lurking and hiding. It's a joke, and really easy. Don't get me wrong, it's not definitely suspicious it's just teally easy to look like he's doing something when he's not. Don't let him get away with such a soft pressure vote in the future without questioning it.

I'm pretty sure he did the same thing in a recent game and he was a civ.

Or you did it to him.

Not sure, I just recall you both voting for each other.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:02 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pmDragon

https://www.narutoforums.org/search/8347121/?page=7

How do I make a link

Not sure if you can link to your own searches. Just to pages from the thread, or posts from the thread.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:04 pm**

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention] heeeeey what's ur history, may i please have a brief timeline?

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:04 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:55 pm DDL, what is your mafia history? How long have you played on each site?

Played a fun real life mafia night once in 2005.

Discovered it again in later 2014 at NF. Got addicted to it and have been playing it ever since.

Discovered the Syndicate around May 2015. Played a lot of games here, though not as much as NF.

I think I have about 15 games here and 30-40 at NF, give or take.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:07 pm**

Also I'm a very prolific host and I have a total of 11 games I either hosted or participated in creating. Only 1 of them here, but I intend to make it at least 4 before next year is over.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:09 pm**

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:47 pm i still think everyone pushing for fake claims underestimate how much effort it goes into building evidence and reads, and fake claims can literally blow them away if believed because one person can impact everyone. then you get into fake reads, and people putting effort into analyzing and building new cases on those.

How can you not see that as counterproductive?

This is mafia. This is a team-game. The cop does not win this game for us. The Cop is not the everything, everywhere, at all costs kinda guy. We don't sacrifice everything for the cop, that's just silly or we'd change the whole basis of this game.

From my perspective, fakeclaims bring content to the thread, which is the most important thing in a game. What's wrong with people building cases based on a fake claim? They're still building cases, and that person might still be bad. There's a perfect opportunity to scrutinise someone you might not have scrutinised before. You'd be surprised how often mafia have won here because they hadn't been given the necessary attention. Also, the more someone talks, the more we can read them, too. So really, I see no problem with making a case based on false information.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:12 pm**

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention] I'm sorry I keep asking for things, would you mind leading me towards an example of civvie DDL?

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm**

Or anyone for that matter

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:23 pm**

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =28&t=1358

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... f=28&t=799

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =27&t=1134

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =27&t=1217

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:23 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm Or anyone for that matter

Mad Max and Game of Champs '16 are my scum games. Turf Wars, Psych, Romance of the Three Kingdoms are all town games of mine.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:25 pm**

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:42 pm ~my experience---- in games dunya has played in~

This just really surprises me.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:28 pm**

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:23 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm Or anyone for that matter
Mad Max and Game of Champs '16 are my scum games. Turf Wars, Psych, Romance of the Three Kingdoms are all town games of mine.

I'll find links.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:30 pm**

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:28 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:23 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm Or anyone for that matter
Mad Max and Game of Champs '16 are my scum games. Turf Wars, Psych, Romance of the Three Kingdoms are all town games of mine.
I'll find links.

Mad Max: /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1161

GoC doesn't have one because there was an error with the thread.

Turf Wars: /viewtopic.php?p=238789#p238789

Psych: /viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1108

RoTTK: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1134

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:32 pm**

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 pm If that's the norm for The Syndicate, then fine, but I don't have to like it--indeed I don't.

I would not call it the norm for The Syndicate. In fact people are split in it here because culture began in a strict no role claiming no info
Dumping rule set.

I find it difficult to see why you can't at leDy acknowledge there are pros to fake claims from civs. They can and have won games for civilians. But as with any strategy there are risks inherent. I can acknowledgethat. Can you not see the advantages that they provide as well?

I am not telling people to fake role claim. I don't feel the need to tell others how to play. But I am disagreeing with this assertion that fake role claims are bad. And I can both believe fake role claims are good and that people should build cases. There is room for both.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:34 pm**

At the concert waiting for the opening act. On phone. I’ll try to start a proper catch up but I’ll disappear suddenly when the concert starts.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:37 pm**

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:40 am
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:45 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:51 pm Speedchuck, Quin, and MP, I would like to know if you have any early reads in anyone?
Hey bud!

I also felt my previous response to your request for people to evaluate self-meta was weak, so I’m going to do that a bit to address your request better and because I feel it is relevant.

I’m generally much more cautious at the start and only comfortable with developing town reads this early, and despite some poking I still feel that is the case so far. I prefer to work in POE and poke at whatever I find questionable, then if the poked player’s response doesn’t compute or seem sincere, then I have a tendency to go into hardcore MP mode and I try to avoid tunneling and dogpee mode but inevitably it always happens lol.

Regarding my reads, I’m feeling town on sig and you because I feel at various points your lines of questioning and statements have been indicative of a genuine town perspective. Not sure about anyone else yet.

What are your reads so far?
This is a long post but I noticed it's missing some baddie reads. Do you have any?

Not currently, no, though apparently I am now behind over half of the thread. I’ll get back to you with a proper rainbow ASAP.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:38 pm**

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:45 am Btw, can anyone explain me the matrix format of the roles that is in the first post? The host picked a random row? Or a random column?

I tried to look for that mafia champions scrimmage we had since I recall it using a similar system but I couldn't find it anywhere in the museum.

Column or row.

Also scrimmage should be under special games.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:40 pm**

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:29 am MP's giving town reads out like candy on . . . oh hey, happy Halloween. Town on Wilgy and Sig? Really?

Is Kylemii an old player here (or elsewhere)? I know he's trying to find his footing, but some trends in mafia are ubiquitous. You're in here, Kyle. I'm expecting more.

LC actually feels less scummy than normal, but I think that's just because I like the scumdar10. It's a more interesting way of giving reads, makes stronger statements than rainbows or POE townreads. Gutsy, straightforward, hedging more toward committal. Townread for me (yes I get the irony here lol).
Linki: I look at motive, not results. Sure LC's lined up a bunch of different scumreads, but he's the only guy in the thread that's committing to scumreads. Committing is townie behavior, because unless you throw some teammates under the bus, people will get suspish of an aggressively, decisively WRONG player.
I doubt LC is scum.

Do you find my reads disagreeable? If so, explain.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:44 pm**

Fake claiming is a legit strategy. I vehemently argue that, I feel done well, it can win the game for town.

Turnip Head and I assisted the cop (Daisy) in Arrested Development with fake cop claims which resulted in Dais being able to singlehandedly solve the entire game.

Fake claiming isn’t without risks, but I can’t fathom why anyone would argue against it in principle.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:44 pm**

That should say “if done well”. Stupid phone.

The Syndicate

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