Ancient Greece Mafia [CONQUEST]

[MacDougall]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

Ha, well I didn’t remember that bit.

Look, if you can name a time you’ve ever read me as bad and been right I’ll hand it to you. I don’t believe it exists. This is the reason I’m saying throw out your tellson me - but again you can only do what you’re comfortable doing.

No man. That's not how this works. I made accusations of you and you tried to discredit me by claiming I misread you all the time. You have failed to show evidence of that. Evidence of me previously reading you well is not required here as I have a good amount of your own posts right here that speak for themselves so I don't need to point at any mystical ability to read you. This is not me making random gut reads on people and pointing at mystic Mac powers. This is you making posts, me finding them suspect, and me finding your reactions as supporting my perspective.

I wouldn't ask of anyone to show evidence that they've caught you before to prove that they make good cases on you. Besides, and I will say it again, even if you HAVE evidence that I read you poorly consistently:

a) It's outdated, it's old
b) I put it to you, that the vast majority of anybody's reads are wrong
c) It's such a small sample size that the two immediate games that sprung to your mind, you were indie in one and I was scum in the other

Moving on. I've made my points. I hope people read them and comment. It would be a shame if they were skimmed.

[Tangrowth]

Straight answers might give you answers, but it doesn’t give me any.

Don’t try and catch me in semantics. It’s not a game I’ll play. If you can answer my question (and yes, anyone who has read my iso ought to be able to), then I’ll beloeve your questions are in good faith. Right now I don’t - I think they are just to generate content. None of the questions you’ve asked me have any meaning - you’re trying to push me into defending the idea that I can believe sig has a bad read on mp while holding my own town view. I can hold both those views at once, and I’m not going to let that be used against me.

Golden is town.

[MacDougall]

Straight answers might give you answers, but it doesn’t give me any.

Don’t try and catch me in semantics. It’s not a game I’ll play. If you can answer my question (and yes, anyone who has read my iso ought to be able to), then I’ll beloeve your questions are in good faith. Right now I don’t - I think they are just to generate content. None of the questions you’ve asked me have any meaning - you’re trying to push me into defending the idea that I can believe sig has a bad read on mp while holding my own town view. I can hold both those views at once, and I’m not going to let that be used against me.

Golden is town.

Eat shit.

[Tangrowth]

There now appear to be many game-relevant posts on day one. I blame MP, but I'm voting sloonei for now because yolo

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

This is sloppy. Yellow card for you another one and you get my vote.

What is sloppy about it, and why is that worthy of a vote?

[Tangrowth]

I was up to date with the thread briefly and it's all downhill from here.

If I had to put money on MPs alignment, it's town. Like, literally his first post pinged people. That seems like town MP to me.

Does that say anything about the people he pinged?

Probably not, but I'll consider that response in more depth later.

MP is shady as shit when town; the question is whether any of the people who are pinged would normally see it that way.

What do you mean I'm shady when I'm town?

Are you sure you want me to answer this?

No.

[Tangrowth]

Turnip Head came in and placed an ironic joke vote on Marmot (which was funny, by the way), but then vanished without a trace. I don't like it.

Why not? Is there anything abnormal about this? It reminds me of a game... I don't even remember which one now... where TH did this to me virtually exactly the same on day one. I wonder if I can find it for comparison. I feel like he did basically the exact same thing though.

Nah, you're right, it's not out of character. I just want Turnip Head, king of analysis, to get his head in here.

[MacDougall]

Choutas is voting for Golden. There's a he is Greek, golden dawn, fascist joke in there somewhere.

[Tangrowth]

from a tone POV I'm not sure I actually believe she believes what she's saying about him.

MP said this about dunya and I find this interesting since it is virtually identical to the objection I just felt in my conversation with dunya.

So, the question is... to those that know dunya, is this our lack of knowledge of her? Dunya's questions *feel* hollow to me, is this me trying to project dunya onto sloonei or something?

Sloonei, actually, it's possible you are best placed to answer this. Interested in Choutas' view too.

I'm lightening on that perspective a bit; I felt some sincerity in things she's posted in the interim. I'm still not sure 100% though, but I wouldn't want to vote for her anymore.

So I guess that means I should move my vote. I'll do that after I finish catching up and can catch my breath here.

[Golden]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

Ha, well I didn’t remember that bit.

Look, if you can name a time you’ve ever read me as bad and been right I’ll hand it to you. I don’t believe it exists. This is the reason I’m saying throw out your tellson me - but again you can only do what you’re comfortable doing.

No man. That's not how this works. I made accusations of you and you tried to discredit me by claiming I misread you all the time. You have failed to show evidence of that. Evidence of me previously reading you well is not required here as I have a good amount of your own posts right here that speak for themselves so I don't need to point at any mystical ability to read you. This is not me making random gut reads on people and pointing at mystic Mac powers. This is you making posts, me finding them suspect, and me finding your reactions as supporting my perspective.

I wouldn't ask of anyone to show evidence that they've caught you before to prove that they make good cases on you. Besides, and I will say it again, even if you HAVE evidence that I read you poorly consistently:

a) It's outdated, it's old
b) I put it to you, that the vast majority of anybody's reads are wrong
c) It's such a small sample size that the two immediate games that sprung to your mind, you were indie in one and I was scum in the other

Moving on. I've made my points. I hope people read them and comment. It would be a shame if they were skimmed.

You don’t get it. I’m not defending myself. I’m trying to help you read me better.

Anyone who knows me well will probably be reading me as hard town by now. This playstyle does not exist on my baddie spectrum at all.

You can choose to do with it what you will but... if you don’t listen this time, please don’t forget. Remember next time.

[MacDougall]

Hurry up and catch up so I can scold you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Critical rules to know
Additional rules and notes
Player list
Story

I want to ensure everyone is aware of this set of links located at the very top of the very first post in the thread. This will allow you to access important information without needing to scroll through the longest posts repeatedly.

[MacDougall]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

Ha, well I didn’t remember that bit.

Look, if you can name a time you’ve ever read me as bad and been right I’ll hand it to you. I don’t believe it exists. This is the reason I’m saying throw out your tellson me - but again you can only do what you’re comfortable doing.

No man. That's not how this works. I made accusations of you and you tried to discredit me by claiming I misread you all the time. You have failed to show evidence of that. Evidence of me previously reading you well is not required here as I have a good amount of your own posts right here that speak for themselves so I don't need to point at any mystical ability to read you. This is not me making random gut reads on people and pointing at mystic Mac powers. This is you making posts, me finding them suspect, and me finding your reactions as supporting my perspective.

I wouldn't ask of anyone to show evidence that they've caught you before to prove that they make good cases on you. Besides, and I will say it again, even if you HAVE evidence that I read you poorly consistently:

a) It's outdated, it's old
b) I put it to you, that the vast majority of anybody's reads are wrong
c) It's such a small sample size that the two immediate games that sprung to your mind, you were indie in one and I was scum in the other

Moving on. I've made my points. I hope people read them and comment. It would be a shame if they were skimmed.

You don’t get it. I’m not defending myself. I’m trying to help you read me better.

Anyone who knows me well will probably be reading me as hard town by now. This playstyle does not exist on my baddie spectrum at all.

You can choose to do with it what you will but... if you don’t listen this time, please don’t forget. Remember next time.

If only this game were so easy.

The objective of good scum play is to play like you do when town Golden. These types of comments just do not appeal to me.

[Tangrowth]

Choutas seems genuine.

[Tangrowth]

Turnip Head came in and placed an ironic joke vote on Marmot (which was funny, by the way), but then vanished without a trace. I don't like it.

Hello, Sockface

[Tangrowth]

Oh and hello new faces! I would like to extend the olive branch to you at least in Day 1- I won’t be voting for you.

But if you’re a mime I’ll be all over your ass. That’s my exception.

Toodles!

This man is town.

why?

I like his olive branch deal. Takes guts, seems genuine. Scotty has to know he could draw attention to himself by stating that. The last thing mafia wants to do on Day 0/1 is draw attention.

Why are you doubling down on your read when Scotty literally told you his behaviour wasn't alignment indicative given he hadn't read his role card?

... weird.

It was my read, and I was explaining it. I'm not going to let some WIFOMy "ooooh did I read my role card yet?!" thing get in the way of that.

[MacDougall]

Playing as Mafia 101

Professor Mac:

"Here are 5 common scum tropes that somehow always work on people:

Do you really think I would do X if I was bad?
Fuck this, I'm out
You never read me correctly
Would I have really bussed Steve in that situation?
This isn't my scum meta

Thanks for attending. You all get a c because I am a shit professor."

[Tangrowth]

FTR, dunya, I'm just trying to get inside your brain here. I presume you're doing the same with me. I'd like to trust you, but the jury's still out for a little bit here.

Not a fan of the bolded.

Explain.

[MacDougall]

Oh and hello new faces! I would like to extend the olive branch to you at least in Day 1- I won’t be voting for you.

But if you’re a mime I’ll be all over your ass. That’s my exception.

Toodles!

This man is town.

why?

I like his olive branch deal. Takes guts, seems genuine. Scotty has to know he could draw attention to himself by stating that. The last thing mafia wants to do on Day 0/1 is draw attention.

Why are you doubling down on your read when Scotty literally told you his behaviour wasn't alignment indicative given he hadn't read his role card?

... weird.

It was my read, and I was explaining it. I'm not going to let some WIFOMy "ooooh did I read my role card yet?!" thing get in the way of that.

Imma let you finish then tell you why this post is lame.

[Tangrowth]

For the moment, Scotty unfortunately remains my sole town read. He's oozing genuine vibes and I stand by my assessment that he's putting himself out there regardless of how he thinks he'll look. He's a man who doesn't give a shit. He smells town.

I'm not entirely sure what to think of dunya, Golden, speedchuck, or Turnip Head just yet.

If your name isn't in this post, it means you've done nothing of note. It's Day 1 now. Change that. Make those Persian bastards tremble. Day 1 is the best time to catch mafia. They're nervous. No mafia member wants to draw attention and be lynched Day 1. Get in here and give the thread your hot takes.

I share a town read on Scotty but I still find it very strange that you are standing by your formed read given it came primarily before you could have feasibly read him, if he is telling the truth, which I presume you think he is given he is a town read.

I found his drunk post a town ping and disregarded anything he said before that by the way.

Because I continued to find his behavior town after the fact. Did you not read that?

[MacDougall]

FTR, dunya, I'm just trying to get inside your brain here. I presume you're doing the same with me. I'd like to trust you, but the jury's still out for a little bit here.

Not a fan of the bolded.

Explain.

Dunno why you'd like to trust her. Don't know why you feel the need to say it. Feels like trying to pacify Dunya. Wouldn't you rather distrust her and then lynch her?

[Tangrowth]

Actually, before I leave, I thought I should place a vote somewhere since they are changeable.

I naturally hate making scum reads this early because I'm almost always wrong at this stage and with this little thread evidence, but at this moment I'm throwing a vote at dunya. GTH she's doing exactly what I would expect her to be doing right now if mafia, and that's trying to act as if she's town but latching onto a low-hanging fruit suspect (Scotty), and from a tone POV I'm not sure I actually believe she believes what she's saying about him.

That said, I'm not sure how much of this perspective could be a result of me failing to understand where her head is at, as well as a bit of a NO U (even though I'm not even clear if she actually suspects me at all). Further, she is actually in here giving us our takes in real time which is commendable and otherwise might earn her some points from me if I was not so confused as to her POV. Consequently, I'm reserving any actual scum read until she can come in and clarify further regarding her previous lines of questioning, but I'll at least give her a vote because if I had to guess any of the active players was scum right now, it'd be her.

Okay, now

I took my tin foil hat off and I heard a voice inside my head tell me that you and Dunya are scum teammates going the distance route.

I wish.

[MacDougall]

For the moment, Scotty unfortunately remains my sole town read. He's oozing genuine vibes and I stand by my assessment that he's putting himself out there regardless of how he thinks he'll look. He's a man who doesn't give a shit. He smells town.

I'm not entirely sure what to think of dunya, Golden, speedchuck, or Turnip Head just yet.

If your name isn't in this post, it means you've done nothing of note. It's Day 1 now. Change that. Make those Persian bastards tremble. Day 1 is the best time to catch mafia. They're nervous. No mafia member wants to draw attention and be lynched Day 1. Get in here and give the thread your hot takes.

I share a town read on Scotty but I still find it very strange that you are standing by your formed read given it came primarily before you could have feasibly read him, if he is telling the truth, which I presume you think he is given he is a town read.

I found his drunk post a town ping and disregarded anything he said before that by the way.

Because I continued to find his behavior town after the fact. Did you not read that?

Nope, missed it. Please point at it.

[Tangrowth]

I want to hear more about Dom. He took the time to underline and magnify superfluous words in a sig post, but not what it meant to him, why he did it and what purpose he was trying to achieve. Since you share his feelings, Mac, what does it mean?

This is a good point.

Also, why has Dom not suspected me yet?

[MacDougall]

Good lord this game is going to be long.

[MacDougall]

I want to hear more about Dom. He took the time to underline and magnify superfluous words in a sig post, but not what it meant to him, why he did it and what purpose he was trying to achieve. Since you share his feelings, Mac, what does it mean?

This is a good point.

Also, why has Dom not suspected me yet?

This is a good point .

Dunno about Dunia's point. I thought it was pretty obvious what Dom was getting at. Really weak from Master Town Dunya tbh.

[Golden]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

Ha, well I didn’t remember that bit.

Look, if you can name a time you’ve ever read me as bad and been right I’ll hand it to you. I don’t believe it exists. This is the reason I’m saying throw out your tellson me - but again you can only do what you’re comfortable doing.

No man. That's not how this works. I made accusations of you and you tried to discredit me by claiming I misread you all the time. You have failed to show evidence of that. Evidence of me previously reading you well is not required here as I have a good amount of your own posts right here that speak for themselves so I don't need to point at any mystical ability to read you. This is not me making random gut reads on people and pointing at mystic Mac powers. This is you making posts, me finding them suspect, and me finding your reactions as supporting my perspective.

I wouldn't ask of anyone to show evidence that they've caught you before to prove that they make good cases on you. Besides, and I will say it again, even if you HAVE evidence that I read you poorly consistently:

a) It's outdated, it's old
b) I put it to you, that the vast majority of anybody's reads are wrong
c) It's such a small sample size that the two immediate games that sprung to your mind, you were indie in one and I was scum in the other

Moving on. I've made my points. I hope people read them and comment. It would be a shame if they were skimmed.

You don’t get it. I’m not defending myself. I’m trying to help you read me better.

Anyone who knows me well will probably be reading me as hard town by now. This playstyle does not exist on my baddie spectrum at all.

You can choose to do with it what you will but... if you don’t listen this time, please don’t forget. Remember next time.

If only this game were so easy.

The objective of good scum play is to play like you do when town Golden. These types of comments just do not appeal to me.

The objective of my civ game is to maintain multiple cub metas so that when I want to I can be easily identified as civ because, for example, I’m very busy in real life, but without compromising on my ability to win as scum because it looks like my cleaner, more cautious civ meta.

Messy golden is always civ golden. Book it.

[Golden]

Despite that, I have to say this sane thing every time I’m playing the messy game.

[Golden]

Also this same thing. But it is sane.

[Tangrowth]

My read on MP is that his purpose was "I haven't played in mafia forever can I make a read now, yes, please, thankyou!" You should always apply the 'golden retriever' test to MP first and foremost.

what's the golden retriever test? you love anything with the word "golden" don't you?

Does MP look like he's eager just to have every possible experience in the game and have a read on all players within the first ten minutes? If yes, town.

There are things with golden in that, y'know, I wouldn't know either way.

My MP town read is sincere. It's about timing. He would be shady as shit later if he was bad. The shady happened early.

Aight I was torn on you until this post.

The first sentence is far too absolute. To make such a basic but strong statement about the meta of a player as fluid (and frankly someone who has barely played in ages) is not what I expect from someone as analytically strong as you.

The bolded is the kicker. Qualifying this particular read as sincere is at worst indie indicative because it informs us that you have the capacity in your current mindset to have INSINCERE reads. How could that be the case? To be force to promote your own read as sincere, without strictly replying to a direct objection but instead having it as a qualifying comment to reinforce the rest of your post. I do not like. Not one bit.

The first point; nah, Golden makes bold meta assessments like that all the time I would say.

But I'll actually give it to you here regarding your second point. I'm thinking on it a bit though. Partially because I feel like there might be situations where I say something like that in defense if town and under attack. It's like, I can see entirely where you're coming from because to emphasize sincere means there is a capacity for insincere reads (and so therefore a scum Golden is emphasizing that he genuinely believes I'm town even though he's scum and could make insincere reads later), so that's a good point. I wonder though whether someone would say that as a defense against others though, just "I'm being sincere" equated with "I'm town, back away" kind of thing. What do you think?

[Tangrowth]

hey there

Kites!

are you town?

name 1 other person you wont be voting for today. name 1 person you might vote for today.

hi there miss. I am a greek A lright
im not gonna vote myself and i might vote you

Explain.

[MacDougall]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

Ha, well I didn’t remember that bit.

Look, if you can name a time you’ve ever read me as bad and been right I’ll hand it to you. I don’t believe it exists. This is the reason I’m saying throw out your tellson me - but again you can only do what you’re comfortable doing.

No man. That's not how this works. I made accusations of you and you tried to discredit me by claiming I misread you all the time. You have failed to show evidence of that. Evidence of me previously reading you well is not required here as I have a good amount of your own posts right here that speak for themselves so I don't need to point at any mystical ability to read you. This is not me making random gut reads on people and pointing at mystic Mac powers. This is you making posts, me finding them suspect, and me finding your reactions as supporting my perspective.

I wouldn't ask of anyone to show evidence that they've caught you before to prove that they make good cases on you. Besides, and I will say it again, even if you HAVE evidence that I read you poorly consistently:

a) It's outdated, it's old
b) I put it to you, that the vast majority of anybody's reads are wrong
c) It's such a small sample size that the two immediate games that sprung to your mind, you were indie in one and I was scum in the other

Moving on. I've made my points. I hope people read them and comment. It would be a shame if they were skimmed.

You don’t get it. I’m not defending myself. I’m trying to help you read me better.

Anyone who knows me well will probably be reading me as hard town by now. This playstyle does not exist on my baddie spectrum at all.

You can choose to do with it what you will but... if you don’t listen this time, please don’t forget. Remember next time.

If only this game were so easy.

The objective of good scum play is to play like you do when town Golden. These types of comments just do not appeal to me.

The objective of my civ game is to maintain multiple cub metas so that when I want to I can be easily identified as civ because, for example, I’m very busy in real life, but without compromising on my ability to win as scum because it looks like my cleaner, more cautious civ meta.

Messy golden is always civ golden. Book it.

Yes until he isn't, and then we're all idiots.

"I'm playing weird and making all these scummy looking posts because I'm good, like always."



Lucky for us you're here to tell us your own meta so we don't accidentally lynch you.

[Tangrowth]

I have been making a tally of my strong pings both positive and negative.

Golden is 2/6. (Positives left and negatives right)
Scotty is 1/0.
MP is 4/4.
Sig is 1/1.
Sloonei is 2/0.
Dunya is 1/2.
Speedchuck is 1/1.
Nova is 0/1.
Kyle is 0/1.
Dom is 1/0.
Choutas is 1/0.

No real pings from anyone else.

Yay, I'm winning!

[Golden]

On this one, there will never be an isn’t. Absolutely never. It’s too valuable to me to maintain the readable town meta for when I need it.

[MacDougall]

My read on MP is that his purpose was "I haven't played in mafia forever can I make a read now, yes, please, thankyou!" You should always apply the 'golden retriever' test to MP first and foremost.

what's the golden retriever test? you love anything with the word "golden" don't you?

Does MP look like he's eager just to have every possible experience in the game and have a read on all players within the first ten minutes? If yes, town.

There are things with golden in that, y'know, I wouldn't know either way.

My MP town read is sincere. It's about timing. He would be shady as shit later if he was bad. The shady happened early.

Aight I was torn on you until this post.

The first sentence is far too absolute. To make such a basic but strong statement about the meta of a player as fluid (and frankly someone who has barely played in ages) is not what I expect from someone as analytically strong as you.

The bolded is the kicker. Qualifying this particular read as sincere is at worst indie indicative because it informs us that you have the capacity in your current mindset to have INSINCERE reads. How could that be the case? To be force to promote your own read as sincere, without strictly replying to a direct objection but instead having it as a qualifying comment to reinforce the rest of your post. I do not like. Not one bit.

The first point; nah, Golden makes bold meta assessments like that all the time I would say.

But I'll actually give it to you here regarding your second point. I'm thinking on it a bit though. Partially because I feel like there might be situations where I say something like that in defense if town and under attack. It's like, I can see entirely where you're coming from because to emphasize sincere means there is a capacity for insincere reads (and so therefore a scum Golden is emphasizing that he genuinely believes I'm town even though he's scum and could make insincere reads later), so that's a good point. I wonder though whether someone would say that as a defense against others though, just "I'm being sincere" equated with "I'm town, back away" kind of thing. What do you think?

Anything, everything, is always possible. Let me try this on and then see how it feels...

My read on Golden is sincere... see nah. I just don't like it in the context of my town role card. The word sincere just bugs the fuck out of me. But he went on to explain that he literally was intending to point out that it was sincere as opposed to his common insincere townie reads... so I guess that settles it.

But the post and then the subsequent attempt to explain it set off the Pingometer 5000 (I upgraded). So no, it doesn't.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

what's the golden retriever test? you love anything with the word "golden" don't you?

Does MP look like he's eager just to have every possible experience in the game and have a read on all players within the first ten minutes? If yes, town.

There are things with golden in that, y'know, I wouldn't know either way.

My MP town read is sincere. It's about timing. He would be shady as shit later if he was bad. The shady happened early.

Aight I was torn on you until this post.

The first sentence is far too absolute. To make such a basic but strong statement about the meta of a player as fluid (and frankly someone who has barely played in ages) is not what I expect from someone as analytically strong as you.

The bolded is the kicker. Qualifying this particular read as sincere is at worst indie indicative because it informs us that you have the capacity in your current mindset to have INSINCERE reads. How could that be the case? To be force to promote your own read as sincere, without strictly replying to a direct objection but instead having it as a qualifying comment to reinforce the rest of your post. I do not like. Not one bit.

My vote for sloonei was entirely insincere. If you expect everything I do as a townie to be sincere you will be disappointed.

I did not say that you (or anyone) is incapable of insincere activity. The fact that it is a read, and in the context it is in, makes your defense here extremely cynical.

I've made many insincere reads as a townie as well. You want an example? Look at the endgame of Currents Mafia, where I did not once read Jay as bad until I tried to CFD him, because I didn't want him to nightkill me and I was trying to time things right.

I have absolutely zero issue being insincere as a townie, reads, activity, anything.

You are saying that you withheld from expressing your active scum read on him until the lategame thus had been having insincere reads on him in the lead up? Okay thank you.

I don't think it's an apt comparison. Your play history is vast, and the particular reference you've made is tactical in the context of that game and in this particular context the comment was strange to me and I am suspicious of you because of it and other things. It was unprovoked, it was in the early game. It has a lot of context that your example doesn't.

I am rather intrigued by your style of defense. It's unique. Hard to describe. I must dwell.

His defense posts are what smell like town Golden to me. They've got that super vindictive Golden is a town lawyer arguing his case in front of all of town feel to them. When Golden is bad and he's making a case or defending, he's more measured, like an incredibly rational evil lawyer that constantly makes sense. When he's town, he just passionately spews. The latter is what I'm seeing here.

[Tangrowth]

I want to ask you a question Mac.

You have read me as very bad on day one many times together. Have you even once ever been right? I'm getting Star Wars mark 2 vibes from you already, and I'm trying to stare you dead in the eyes right now and tell you - you'd be unwise to go down that route.

I don't care about a game that occurred two years ago and I don't care for your discrediting my points by raising it. It's irrelevant. I am reading your posts on their current merit, in context in this game. I have no meta on you or memory of you at all aside from recalling you as a good player.

BTW for the benefit of everyone else - MacDougall tunnelled me for phases on end in this game and was wrong. I'm absolutely discrediting the points he's raising by reference to it, because the reasons he was wrong in that game are basically the same as the reasons he is wrong here. In that game I happened to be independent and was deliberately setting out to avoid nightkill. In this game I'm civ, so it's not entirely analagous, but you've got to be smart about the difference between weird and bad.

Mac says he has six negative pings on me already. If that leaves him with a mafia read on me, he clearly could not also believe I'm a savvy player. That would be me walking through the mud and then leaving muddy footprints all over the carpet.

I have found many good players scum for their day one play Golden. Feeling that you are suspicious here doesn't cancel out that I recall you as a good player.

You are making a series of overly simple and cynical defenses while insisting on discrediting my ability to read you based on one game that occurred years ago.

This is day one in a very long game and I'm just playing the game the way I always do. I'm not going to just stop suspecting you because you try to brute force me with words. This is a game where the bad guys lie and twist their perspectives so relenting on my read under your current pressure would make me a weak player.

I've no doubt that you are going to win town points for the emotional tone in your posts though.

Much water to run under this bridge. Continue your play. I will continue mine. Things will occur. Hopefully truth revealing things.

Precisely why he's town.

[MacDougall]

On this one, there will never be an isn’t. Absolutely never. It’s too valuable to me to maintain the readable town meta for when I need it.

Hyperbole. You'd do it. You barely play any more. It's a glory play. In subsequent games you'd just say "I'd never do it twice" or something to that effect because why wouldn't you. This entire line of thinking is wifom anyway. It explains nothing. You have no decided to put all my in context points against you into a box marked "messy game Golden" to dismiss them.

Man there are so many fucking chips in this pot it's ridiculous. Will I fold? Let's find out.

[Golden]

MP is saying I don’t make sense

[Tangrowth]

I am rather intrigued by your style of defense. It's unique. Hard to describe. I must dwell.

Try not to think of it as defence. I'm not saying any of it to save myself but to give you perspective on my posts.

I'm fine being lynched today, but it won't get the town anywhere. However, I could still win the game and notch a victory on the meta-belt.

Or you could leave me around and I could help solve the game.

OMG, the final nail in the Golden is town coffin.

Dude, we're both town. Let's do this.

[Tangrowth]

MP is saying I don’t make sense

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I just mean, when you're bad everything you say is incredibly logical and agreeable. Like in Economics when you were bad Golden, I never once even considered you were bad other than tinfoil, because nothing you said ever pinged me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, your perception of my meta and my perception of your meta are pretty similar.

[MacDougall]

I want to ask you a question Mac.

You have read me as very bad on day one many times together. Have you even once ever been right? I'm getting Star Wars mark 2 vibes from you already, and I'm trying to stare you dead in the eyes right now and tell you - you'd be unwise to go down that route.

I don't care about a game that occurred two years ago and I don't care for your discrediting my points by raising it. It's irrelevant. I am reading your posts on their current merit, in context in this game. I have no meta on you or memory of you at all aside from recalling you as a good player.

BTW for the benefit of everyone else - MacDougall tunnelled me for phases on end in this game and was wrong. I'm absolutely discrediting the points he's raising by reference to it, because the reasons he was wrong in that game are basically the same as the reasons he is wrong here. In that game I happened to be independent and was deliberately setting out to avoid nightkill. In this game I'm civ, so it's not entirely analagous, but you've got to be smart about the difference between weird and bad.

Mac says he has six negative pings on me already. If that leaves him with a mafia read on me, he clearly could not also believe I'm a savvy player. That would be me walking through the mud and then leaving muddy footprints all over the carpet.

I have found many good players scum for their day one play Golden. Feeling that you are suspicious here doesn't cancel out that I recall you as a good player.

You are making a series of overly simple and cynical defenses while insisting on discrediting my ability to read you based on one game that occurred years ago.

This is day one in a very long game and I'm just playing the game the way I always do. I'm not going to just stop suspecting you because you try to brute force me with words. This is a game where the bad guys lie and twist their perspectives so relenting on my read under your current pressure would make me a weak player.

I've no doubt that you are going to win town points for the emotional tone in your posts though.

Much water to run under this bridge. Continue your play. I will continue mine. Things will occur. Hopefully truth revealing things.

Precisely why he's town.

Have never and will never accept this type of thinking. This is on par with "dude is town because he told me to fuck off". Scummy play is scummy play. If he's town and he's lynched for scummy play, then I lose no sleep. If he's scum and he wins because townies point out that him playing scummy is his town meta, then I would go Liam Neeson on everyone.

[MacDougall]

Besides, when was the last time you two legitimately played a game together?

[Tangrowth]

LOL, I have 16 notifications. That's what I like to see.

I posted too much. You were supposed to stay up all night and tell me to stop.

Dammit, and here now it is the morning and you're supposed to tell me to get back to work.

[Tangrowth]

I agree on nova. But he’s also a newbie to me.

The difference of opinion I have is that I actually agree with nova. Sigs post was just a big no u and I don’t think it was a great post from sig either. But what’s the value in calling out the no u in question form? To me it’s like the old lawyer tenet ‘never ask a question you don’t know the answer to’. They’re probably amongst the safest questions asked in the thread.

I found it bad for the following reasons;

It was going after a player who was beginning to be questioned by stronger players (safety in numbers).
It wasn't strange to me, so I don't understand why it bugged Nova.
It was short, so as to decrease the opportunities for Nova to make any mistakes. Short and nervy. False bravado.

It was strange to me, but otherwise I agree with this 100%.

[Tangrowth]

Hello, Mac!

Hello, old friend, nemesis, confidante, ally, associate, rival, opponent, challenger, Gary Oak to my Hiker Joe.

Good to be playing with you again.

[MacDougall]

FYI Golden I am trying not to tunnel you I have just seen a whole hell of a lot of stuff I have felt strongly enough to have to object to from both you and MP.

[Tangrowth]

@Golden what's ur recent history? did u play/host many games while i wasn't around

kyle is being kyle with his data gathering methods. digging this.

What do you mean by this?

If I answer for her, would that be bothersome for any scum hunting endeavours you may have here?

I'm glad you asked, but no, that's fine, you can answer here too. I've not had the fortune of playing with Kyle since... the old days, so it's been a long time.

[Golden]

I am rather intrigued by your style of defense. It's unique. Hard to describe. I must dwell.

Try not to think of it as defence. I'm not saying any of it to save myself but to give you perspective on my posts.

I'm fine being lynched today, but it won't get the town anywhere. However, I could still win the game and notch a victory on the meta-belt.

Or you could leave me around and I could help solve the game.

OMG, the final nail in the Golden is town coffin.

Dude, we're both town. Let's do this.

I’m all in.

[Tangrowth]

I heard they're coming out with a new pingometer next year, it's three feet long and two inches thick

[MacDougall]

@Golden what's ur recent history? did u play/host many games while i wasn't around

kyle is being kyle with his data gathering methods. digging this.

What do you mean by this?

If I answer for her, would that be bothersome for any scum hunting endeavours you may have here?

I'm glad you asked, but no, that's fine, you can answer here too. I've not had the fortune of playing with Kyle since... the old days, so it's been a long time.

He has a persistent habit of immediately trying to dig through the initial host content to find things others might overlook. To the point where if he did not do it, it would probably attract negative attention.