[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Epignosis]

Talkative bunch when I'm not around.

Now nobody wants to speak.

[MacDougall]

Where exactly did bcornett go?

Also Mac, if you're offering to step up your game if I state lynching intent then by all means you're my top suspect.

Haha I like you too

[RadicalFuzz]

A general apology to Syndicate players if I incorrectly assume something of their habits or posting style. My first game with the vast majority of Syndicate players was a sock game, so it'll take a while before I get used to everybody.

I'm glad I've evoked a chuckle. I aim to please.

[Elohcin]

Talkative bunch when I'm not around.

Now nobody wants to speak.

Hi Epi!

[Epignosis]

Talkative bunch when I'm not around.

Now nobody wants to speak.

Hi Epi!

Feel like dancin?

[Epignosis]

[Marmot]

Dancing sounds like fun, but there's a mafia game to play (says the guy who's hardly been playing).

[motel room]

top shelf, that

[Matt]

And I absolutely LOVE proving people wrong. So if I do get lynched today it be kinda worth it to just have my civvie role shoved right in your face.

Well fuck

RIP Job. Hope you buy the album.

[Matt]

Before anyone else mentions it, yes, I've voted to lynch a civvie four days in a row now.

Sorry town

[Draconus]

So sorry Sorsha

Seeing as I received 9 votes to her 10 we should shorten the next day phase so you guys can go back to baddie hunting. It's pretty obvious where Day 5 is going to go. I know where I'm voting.

[MacDougall]

Before anyone else mentions it, yes, I've voted to lynch a civvie four days in a row now.

Sorry town

You had your vote on a civvie the day Long Con was lynched?

[bcornett24]

I have had very bad luck with allergies the last two weeks, I logged in to see the results earlier and logged off. To exhausted to focus. I'm about to head to bed.

Mac you better be finding me those bread crumbs you promised or the 10-11 points of why you are a civ.

So many Scum reads to make tomorrow so little time.

[seaside]

yeah, this isn't informed but I don't want to get penalised. Golden because he's obviously scum guys

alright, i'm calling it.
out of jjj, espers and yourself, you are the scum.
you vote in the final moments of the day. you have the choice and the option to either give sorsha the clear lead (just incase of any vote tamperings) or to vote devin.
now while i could understand the hesitancy of not wanting to make that call, you then go to vote for probably the best with the most evidence pointing to them being town....
which makes me think that you know sorsha was town and didn't want to jump on in the final minutes knowing sorsha was going to flip town. maybe you don't want to jump on devin because he is your scum mate?
so then you go for some non-committal vote which will have no affect on the lynch. there wasn't going to be a change in votes all of a sudden. so what was the point? to create confusion because he killed someone on a gambit?

not to mention bragging about fooling us into thinking you've been silenced. the whole 'oh these are the people i'm gonna look into' kinda posts, where you don't actually do anything really.

[MacDougall]

I have had very bad luck with allergies the last two weeks, I logged in to see the results earlier and logged off. To exhausted to focus. I'm about to head to bed.

Mac you better be finding me those bread crumbs you promised or the 10-11 points of why you are a civ.

So many Scum reads to make tomorrow so little time.

Lol such a scummy thing to scum.

Also I won't be doing either of those things on account of you asking like a douche.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

voting sorsha

don't like some of the later votes on the devin wagon and straw's sorsha case was pretty compelling /piggybacking

no slight against the ppl defending sorsha, but you were wrong about lc, why should we believe you now?

At least one of the people defending Sorsha was also anti-LC (hi), and I think it was probably more than just me. espers this post is pretty bad, what is the purpose of this vague attempt at casting doubt upon all of these people for something that isn't even accurate?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

yeah, this isn't informed but I don't want to get penalised. Golden because he's obviously scum guys

Diiny, you're a demanding townie. You expect things out of people and try to get things from them when at first they don't supply them. This voting methodology is so... timid. Even if you hadn't managed to catch up with the entire game, you have had plenty of time as an active contributor to get some kind of feeling at least on Devin and Sorsha. You failed to place a relevant vote in a very important spot and that I really don't think town Diiny lets that happen.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So can anyone else see the possible save attempt? Thinking we'll find baddies among the Sorsha voters for sure, especially if Devin was their endangered teammate. Probably going to vote Devin tomorrow. Espers and Russti also have my eye.

Why are you deciding your vote for the end of a 48 hour Day 5 right at the beginning of the preceding 24 hour Night 4?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So JJJ, for you, where does Mac's content today weigh in, in comparison to what you discussed in this quote? Has it changed your opinion, and if so to what degree?

JJJ how was your Sweden trip, by the way?

I haven't reviewed his newest content in depth yet, but on the surface I really haven't been bothered. Mac is a very capable anti-town player (one of the best on RYM if you ask me), and he entered this stage of the game generally being trusted by most people. I think he is probably goofing around for the sake of reactions and entertaining himself, something that is not unbelievable in terms of meta. When time permits I'll check more closely into his recent play.

My immediate assumption is that he is being misread by people who either don't know how he acts or are off-put by his treatment of them specifically.

Sweden was super cool thanks! So many attractive women, I couldn't turn a corner without falling in love.

[Bullzeye]

So can anyone else see the possible save attempt? Thinking we'll find baddies among the Sorsha voters for sure, especially if Devin was their endangered teammate. Probably going to vote Devin tomorrow. Espers and Russti also have my eye.

Why are you deciding your vote for the end of a 48 hour Day 5 right at the beginning of the preceding 24 hour Night 4?

Is there a reason why I shouldn't? Besides, it's not like I've said I'll definitely do it and gone out to get a tattoo of the statement. I can change my mind if I really want to.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You asked for a second opinion. So here goes.

To your first spoiler tagged entry: Why did MacDougall choose to gun for that particular vote? There were a lot of shitty votes Day 1, as there always are, and Long Con struck me as genuine (and you have Black Rock here verifying that I usually view LC as bad, which is true). Why call him out on that?

Mac wasn't alone in this regard. A few other people also viewed LC's first anti-bea post as suspicious (not including me to be fair), and they all generally seemed to have the same perspective about why it looked bad. I don't think it's hard to believe that they were simply correct in that read, as Mac would have been as a townie. He'd have called him out on that vote because he found it suspicious.

I don't know why it never occurred to me before, but I want to go back to Breaking Bad Mafia on RM. Sorsha was bad with then, weren't your Sorsha? Aw, wait, you're dead because people don't listen to sense.

In that game, I was Gus Fring, and my vote was worth a shit ton. While that sort of thing sounds good, it's very hard to hide. I chose to be blatant about it, breaking ties and what not and rubbing it in people's faces. I lasted quite a while.

Long Con was in that game, and he hunted my role hard. It was an exhausting exercise, and I think it's one he didn't look forward to in particular.

Suppose then, that LC decides to have this fake case on a civilian to "test reactions" and get somebody else on his team to call him out on it. They duke it out in the thread, and the plan is to lynch LC, who, let's face it, would be caught eventually anyway (seriously folks, giving Mafia +vote roles only outs them in the long run- it's bad game design). LC gets lynched, and the one who called him out on his gambit gets credit for it.

With a team of seven, it's the kind of thing I'd go for.

This highlighted portion is where you [mostly] lose me. I agree that it's possible, but the word "possible" doesn't mean that much to me in the game of Mafia. Here's my beef: I don't think we should be acting under the assumption that LC was being honest at all when he proclaimed his case against bea was a ruse or a test. I don't think it was at all -- I think he genuinely wanted to generate bad press against bea and it blew up in his face. So he had to backpedal hard, but in a strategically graceful manner, so he elected to pretend it was a test. Apparently he's done that kind of thing as a townie before, he probably thought he could get away with claiming to have done it again. It could have worked too, because a lot of people believed him.

So here's my point: if I don't believe LC's "gambit" ever really even existed, then I am not going to attribute theories about his scum intentions to that gambit. That means I am not going to be more suspicious of Mac than I otherwise be because of the possibility that this was a cooperative plan from the start. I don't think this conversation happened in BTSC:

LC: Okay guys, I really need to focus on my other game. I know we just got started here and you're relying on me to contribute, but I gotta bail.

Mac or friends: Well... alright? That kind of sucks. Uh, I guess we better bus you then and make it look nice.

LC: Definitely. So here's the plan. I am going to go after bea for her defensive posts. But when I do: it's gonna be a bad look. I want one or more of you folks to come after me for it right away.

Mac: I'm on it!

LC: Great. But here's where it gets interesting: after you go after me, I'm going to say in the thread that the original case was just a test for reactions and try to gain back the credibility that you take away. I'm known for this kind of thing, it'll look fine.

Mac: Alright sweet. Tell you what, why don't we also argue in the thread about your Flowers role and how it might affect the game? So much WIFOM!!!

LC: Aw yeah, sick. Bro fist, bro.

The fact that you, 3J, were blind to this possibility concerns me.

I like I said, I agree that there's a chance. I don't really like to work within a Lloyd Christmas mindset though. I want to know what is most likely, not what is a possibility. Just about any theory any of us could ever cook up is a possibility, but that's meaningless. I don't think this possibility holds very much water.

MacDougall has gone from gung-ho against Mafia to wanting to lynch civilians to give us fucking breadcrumbs. Fuck breadcrumbs.

Understandable perspective. For a long while though, it wasn't uncommon on RYM for people to be lynched for the sake of information generation. That method has faded with time, but Mac was present when it was a commonplace thing -- indeed even when I would pursue information-heavy lynches in the absence of a better option.

I also want to point out that, in the second spoiler tag, 3J highlights "I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM" which directs attention from the rest of the post:

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

3J took this post, highlighted a side note about Long Con, when the overall conversation here was about seaside. Then 3J talked Mac up, saying, "Mac may have taken a long break, but he returned to Mafia in old form. "

Old form...over a defensive post? Is he usually defensive?

This is a fair point. When I do my interaction analyses, it involves a crap load of CTRL+F, and when I see a name I zone in directly on the relevant material -- especially when I'm trying to get through every single player and am moving quickly. This means that sometimes I am going to miss certain contextual things, and in this case I think I did that. So you're right to question me for it. I perceived this post as a loud effort by Mac to discredit points made by LC, but I was mistaken about which points precisely. That this post was self-defensive in nature does make it less meaningful with regards to how it reflects in his LC interactions.

And what happened to lynching seaside for breadcrumbs?

Finally, on this point, tt's worth pointing out that Sorsha, a civilian, suspected Mac.

Mmm...breadcrumbs indeed.

Mac can talk about Seaside. I don't know.

Sorsha suspected Mac. I don't.

LC responded to Mac's aggression with an OMGUS vote. It's possible that this was all a designed cooperative bus, but... I don't think it was.

Raise your hand if you think LC casts OMGUS votes on civilians.

Now raise your hand if you think LC knew what he was about when he did it.

I don't know about LC personally, but I don't think there's any reason to doubt that a mafia player would cast an OMGUS vote on a civilian. I've done it plenty of times, albeit in the form of a thoroughly reasoned "case".

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So can anyone else see the possible save attempt? Thinking we'll find baddies among the Sorsha voters for sure, especially if Devin was their endangered teammate. Probably going to vote Devin tomorrow. Espers and Russti also have my eye.

Why are you deciding your vote for the end of a 48 hour Day 5 right at the beginning of the preceding 24 hour Night 4?

Is there a reason why I shouldn't?

If you're town: absolutely. It's entirely possible yesterdays wagons were town-town, and to immediately jump to the "he was saved!" mindset is incredibly dangerous.

Besides, it's not like I've said I'll definitely do it and gone out to get a tattoo of the statement. I can change my mind if I really want to.

Show me that you actually care about the ability to change your mind and this will mean something to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

quote repair

So can anyone else see the possible save attempt? Thinking we'll find baddies among the Sorsha voters for sure, especially if Devin was their endangered teammate. Probably going to vote Devin tomorrow. Espers and Russti also have my eye.

Why are you deciding your vote for the end of a 48 hour Day 5 right at the beginning of the preceding 24 hour Night 4?

Is there a reason why I shouldn't?

If you're town: absolutely. It's entirely possible yesterdays wagons were town-town, and to immediately jump to the "he was saved!" mindset is incredibly dangerous.

Besides, it's not like I've said I'll definitely do it and gone out to get a tattoo of the statement. I can change my mind if I really want to.

Show me that you actually care about the ability to change your mind and this will mean something to me.

[Bullzeye]

So can anyone else see the possible save attempt? Thinking we'll find baddies among the Sorsha voters for sure, especially if Devin was their endangered teammate. Probably going to vote Devin tomorrow. Espers and Russti also have my eye.

Why are you deciding your vote for the end of a 48 hour Day 5 right at the beginning of the preceding 24 hour Night 4?

Is there a reason why I shouldn't?

If you're town: absolutely. It's entirely possible yesterdays wagons were town-town, and to immediately jump to the "he was saved!" mindset is incredibly dangerous.

I've already said that I find it particularly suspicious because I also suspect Russti, who broke the tie and got Sorsha lynched.

Besides, it's not like I've said I'll definitely do it and gone out to get a tattoo of the statement. I can change my mind if I really want to.

Show me that you actually care about the ability to change your mind and this will mean something to me.

I don't even know what you're talking about now. Like you said, there are nearly 3 full days before the lynch deadline. Anything can happen between now and then. I might not even see day five. I've never been the type of person to assume my first instinct is definitely 100% correct. I know I'm not always going to be right. I still have the right to say what I think, when I think it. I gave no indication that I don't care about changing my mind or that I'm not open to other possibilities. I don't understand where you're coming from.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't even know what you're talking about now. Like you said, there are nearly 3 full days before the lynch deadline. Anything can happen between now and then. I might not even see day five. I've never been the type of person to assume my first instinct is definitely 100% correct. I know I'm not always going to be right. I still have the right to say what I think, when I think it. I gave no indication that I don't care about changing my mind or that I'm not open to other possibilities. I don't understand where you're coming from.

There's a difference between stating a perspective right now and stating an intent to vote right now.

I don't think you have to be bad for this behavior. Townies do it often. And I think it's a terrible idea. I don't mean to be condescending, but if you're town then take it as a fair warning: you're setting yourself up to view the entire day through a biased lens.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What does everyone think of jjj, diiny and espers?

The order i would lynch them is espers > diiny > jjj. I'm reading jjj as jenuine atm.

Please expand.

[Bullzeye]

I don't even know what you're talking about now. Like you said, there are nearly 3 full days before the lynch deadline. Anything can happen between now and then. I might not even see day five. I've never been the type of person to assume my first instinct is definitely 100% correct. I know I'm not always going to be right. I still have the right to say what I think, when I think it. I gave no indication that I don't care about changing my mind or that I'm not open to other possibilities. I don't understand where you're coming from.

There's a difference between stating a perspective right now and stating an intent to vote right now.

I don't think you have to be bad for this behavior. Townies do it often. And I think it's a terrible idea. I don't mean to be condescending, but if you're town then take it as a fair warning: you're setting yourself up to view the entire day through a biased lens.

Not much difference in my opinion. I disagree entirely with your perspective here. Even if you're right, I'll hardly be the only person viewing the day from a biased position.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm raising my hand.

I'm in complete agreement with epi.

I absolutely, 100% still believe that LC took a dive to plan world reborn. The question is just who benefitted from it.

Do you disagree with me that this would be a rather screwed up thing to do to one's own baddie team? LC strikes me as the sort who invests himself enough in a game that he wouldn't just leave it behind for his own sake. Even when the potential exists to give team mates added credit for the bus, it still leaves the team a man shorter and that's more of a problem than a benefit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Even if you're right, I'll hardly be the only person viewing the day from a biased position.

Why does this sentence exist?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I stopped reading after you made about 4 extremely huge reaches that nobody in their right mind would believe are possible tbh. Can you please hunt scum instead? Cool.

What are the reaches, and why do you consider them so?

[Bullzeye]

Even if you're right, I'll hardly be the only person viewing the day from a biased position.

Why does this sentence exist?

Because it is true. I won't be the only biased player, so telling me specifically that I'm biased and should consider not being so feels fairly pointless.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dancing sounds like fun, but there's a mafia game to play (says the guy who's hardly been playing).

But you could be.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Even if you're right, I'll hardly be the only person viewing the day from a biased position.

Why does this sentence exist?

Because it is true. I won't be the only biased player, so telling me specifically that I'm biased and should consider not being so feels fairly pointless.

I know you won't be the only biased player. I am talking to you though. You're Bullzeye, and this is my conversation with you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac, if you're confident all three are bad vote J3 with me.

By the way J3 I'm voting for you.

Can a man get a reason?

My home site, Jesus Toast Mafia, is named after a term we coined "Jesus Toast." It's seeing Christ on rye, so to speak, some big conspiracy that ties everything up in a neat little bow when there's really nothing there.

That's what I'm seeing with you. You're holding to your Long Con analyses, which are good sources of information, but seem to be almost ignoring new, relevant information. You're quick to call people town, which on its own isn't a bad thing, but it's off-putting for some reason I can't put my finger on. You play the cooperative townie, not confrontational but prodding with just enough frequency to get responses.

I know there's no fair defense to what mostly amounts to a gut feeling, and I apologize for that.

I'm not ignoring any new information, but you're right that I have focused a lot on my own workload. I didn't do all those analyses because I was bored, I did them because it allowed me to make substantive reads on nearly every player. I'm quite sure I wasn't right about everything, but I am confident enough in my skillset that I will trust my work until given a reason not to.

I think you need to reassess me though if you think I've been "not confrontational". I might not sound like a hyper-aggressive player because of the language I employ, but I have directly confronted so many people in this game on just about everything. I am highly confrontational.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There are 26 players left, and I have had a town read on everyone that has been night killed. If I was correct on that front, that leaves us at 19 vs. 6 vs. 1. That is not a town-friendly ratio, and I think it's important that we all start playing with a sense of urgency.

[DrWilgy]

JJJ, Golden (if you are no longer insane), and Epi, if Mac were to flip bad who would his team be? If bcornett were to flip bad who would his team be?

I would like for y'all to spoiler what your thoughts are and not look at each others responses until all have posted, but there's no way I can confirm that. I guess I'm trusting y'all on that.

[MacDougall]

I stopped reading after you made about 4 extremely huge reaches that nobody in their right mind would believe are possible tbh. Can you please hunt scum instead? Cool.

What are the reaches, and why do you consider them so?

I dunno like the first couple of paragraphs of the post he made or something.

I'm seriously struggling to take this game seriously. Sorry dude. I might go dark for a day or so and see if I can recapture some of that loving feeling or something. If I get lynched whatevs.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ, Golden (if you are no longer insane), and Epi, if Mac were to flip bad who would his team be? If bcornett were to flip bad who would his team be?

I would like for y'all to spoiler what your thoughts are and not look at each others responses until all have posted, but there's no way I can confirm that. I guess I'm trusting y'all on that.

I really don't get into the business of building theories of entire teams, I find baddies individually and work off of the information that this produces. I think it's generally a bad idea to become entrenched in theories of full teams because they demand such an acute grasp of the baddie strategy and of how the team mates are playing off of each other that it's frankly beyond the skills of even the best townies on the Internet. It's so ambitious that it's ill-advised.

Sometimes there is strong enough evidence of an interaction pre-flip that I'll thoroughly explore it, but that's a rarity. I can try to answer this for you if you want me to, but I'm telling you now that the answers will likely be arbitrary. I don't play Mafia this way. I would have to specifically explore interactions involving Mac and bcornett to give you anything more substantive, and that's more of a workload than I'm inclined to take on for players who are still alive.

[Ricochet]

RIP Sorsha.

I'd like to ask the Hosts what RDW's status is and what's in store for him, it's a week since he last posted, so way beyond the 72-hour grace period.

I've wasted my afternoon so far having work appointments in town, half of which I've got stood up; right now I'm home for some refreshments, then off to german class. I'll be back later or Day 5, if still alive.

[Elohcin]

Talkative bunch when I'm not around.

Now nobody wants to speak.

Hi Epi!

Feel like dancin?

You're sweet and I loved the dance.

So many people talking at night

[Marmot]

Dancing sounds like fun, but there's a mafia game to play (says the guy who's hardly been playing).

But you could be.

I found posting on Day 4 less than enjoyable.

JJJ, Golden (if you are no longer insane), and Epi, if Mac were to flip bad who would his team be? If bcornett were to flip bad who would his team be?

I would like for y'all to spoiler what your thoughts are and not look at each others responses until all have posted, but there's no way I can confirm that. I guess I'm trusting y'all on that.

I really don't get into the business of building theories of entire teams, I find baddies individually and work off of the information that this produces. I think it's generally a bad idea to become entrenched in theories of full teams because they demand such an acute grasp of the baddie strategy and of how the team mates are playing off of each other that it's frankly beyond the skills of even the best townies on the Internet. It's so ambitious that it's ill-advised.

Sometimes there is strong enough evidence of an interaction pre-flip that I'll thoroughly explore it, but that's a rarity. I can try to answer this for you if you want me to, but I'm telling you now that the answers will likely be arbitrary. I don't play Mafia this way. I would have to specifically explore interactions involving Mac and bcornett to give you anything more substantive, and that's more of a workload than I'm inclined to take on for players who are still alive.

ISO's are pretty ambitious too, but I know you encourage them.

Also, rainbow lists are going to have 6 players at the bottom who are the scummiest reads. It's not a whole lot different than naming six players you think are on a team together.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

ISO's are pretty ambitious too, but I know you encourage them.

Analyzing a single player is not as ambitious as building a theory about the entire mafia team, or even close. Not even analyzing every player is that ambitious, because those analyses are all independent of one another. That's the only way to keep them decently objective.

Also, rainbow lists are going to have 6 players at the bottom who are the scummiest reads. It's not a whole lot different than naming six players you think are on a team together.

It's very different. If I were to make a rainbow list right now with 6 players in the red zone, I would not be asserting that those 6 players comprise the baddie team. I'd be saying that they are the 6 most suspicious players in the game to me independent of one another.

This is why you'll see no multi-baddie theories in my massive post history apart from those which can be derived from the confirmed baddie: Long Con.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is it typical of MP or other Syndicate hosts to force players to behave like MM behaved on Day 4 if they miss votes or something like that?

[Bullzeye]

Is it typical of MP or other Syndicate hosts to force players to behave like MM behaved on Day 4 if they miss votes or something like that?

It's definitely something I'd expect from MP. He's a very vengeful host. Break or bend his rules and he will come down on you like a ton of bricks. He also isn't afraid to mass-modkill inactive players.

[Ricochet]

Is it typical of MP or other Syndicate hosts to force players to behave like MM behaved on Day 4 if they miss votes or something like that?

I'd say it's more typical of MP.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Good to know, thanks dudes. I hadn't realized that's a thing until it was first mentioned in passing by someone or another in here.

[fingersplints]

Sorry for missing the vote. I had no idea who to vote for, no one even tried to summarise, and it's honestly unlikely I will ever catch up since there are 76 pages. I regret agreeing to replace into this game before checking the thread. I won't make that mistake ever again

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sorry for missing the vote. I had no idea who to vote for, no one even tried to summarise, and it's honestly unlikely I will ever catch up since there are 76 pages. I regret agreeing to replace into this game before checking the thread. I won't make that mistake ever again

Sometimes a fresh mindset is a good thing. You don't necessarily have to catch up with this entire thread. You can just read it as it comes to you starting now and share your perspectives starting now. If by chance you make an assertion that is contrary to thread evidence, I am sure someone will say so and you can go from there.

[Marmot]

Sorry for missing the vote. I had no idea who to vote for, no one even tried to summarise, and it's honestly unlikely I will ever catch up since there are 76 pages. I regret agreeing to replace into this game before checking the thread. I won't make that mistake ever again

I pity you for missing the vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to be out for a little while. Doc, if you still want me to give your exercise a shot let me know and I will come up with something. I just wanted to communicate my own strategic preferences with you first because they're in stark contrast to what you've requested.