The Syndicate

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:40 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:35 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:22 pm c4, you really think mac is a wolf? i’m surprised you aren’t reevaluating your mac and nook reads based on today

If your thinking here is "godread dichotomy", godread dichotomies suck and also I don't think Nook's current Mac read is real regardless of his alignment

it’s nothing to do with that, i just think mac has been a lot more villagery than nook today and i’m as good at reading mac as nook is if not better

i mean, you just saw mac play as both alignments recently

you think this is closer to his wolf play?

His wet napkin of a D1? Closer to his wolf play.
His SoD2? Closer to his town play.
I would've townread his tonal frustration/exasperation today if I hadn't seen GoC, but here we are.

Cmon, when people don't have a read you do, the first step is explaining the read yourself, not this.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:58 pm not really but i think he’s just exaggerating idk

from his pov i’ve been his most vocal defender so i see why he thinks that

I'm just a little concerned that Mac is doing what he [feels he] must to ensure you stay in a pro-Mac camp at MYLO. Specifically you.

I have a hard time seeing town!mac

And I have a hard time seeing town ever voting Mac, so I'm not even sure if it's worth going back through game history to solve or if I should just push C4 Nanook and hope I'm wrong.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:05 pm I have a hard time seeing town!mac

And I have a hard time seeing town ever voting Mac, so I'm not even sure if it's worth going back through game history to solve or if I should just push C4 Nanook and hope I'm wrong.

My vote isn't decided until the day is over. Sometimes I am that way to a fault. So I'll definitely listen to whatever you have to post (explanations or not).

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:00 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:40 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:35 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:22 pm c4, you really think mac is a wolf? i’m surprised you aren’t reevaluating your mac and nook reads based on today

If your thinking here is "godread dichotomy", godread dichotomies suck and also I don't think Nook's current Mac read is real regardless of his alignment

it’s nothing to do with that, i just think mac has been a lot more villagery than nook today and i’m as good at reading mac as nook is if not better

i mean, you just saw mac play as both alignments recently

you think this is closer to his wolf play?

His wet napkin of a D1? Closer to his wolf play.
His SoD2? Closer to his town play.
I would've townread his tonal frustration/exasperation today if I hadn't seen GoC, but here we are.

Cmon, when people don't have a read you do, the first step is explaining the read yourself, not this.

i always find it difficult to explain my read on mac because it’s really just a feel thing

i read him on whether i think he seems to believe what he’s saying and cares about finding wolves, and my read on his play today is he does care

the way he’s flipping back and forth between possible worlds and exploring anti-consensus stuff just feels like how he villages ime

i don’t know if i can explain it better than not but imo he’s not that difficult to read when he’s actually plugged in like he is today

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:07 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:00 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:40 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:35 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:22 pm c4, you really think mac is a wolf? i’m surprised you aren’t reevaluating your mac and nook reads based on today

If your thinking here is "godread dichotomy", godread dichotomies suck and also I don't think Nook's current Mac read is real regardless of his alignment

it’s nothing to do with that, i just think mac has been a lot more villagery than nook today and i’m as good at reading mac as nook is if not better

i mean, you just saw mac play as both alignments recently

you think this is closer to his wolf play?

His wet napkin of a D1? Closer to his wolf play.
His SoD2? Closer to his town play.
I would've townread his tonal frustration/exasperation today if I hadn't seen GoC, but here we are.

Cmon, when people don't have a read you do, the first step is explaining the read yourself, not this.

i always find it difficult to explain my read on mac because it’s really just a feel thing

i read him on whether i think he seems to believe what he’s saying and cares about finding wolves, and my read on his play today is he does care

the way he’s flipping back and forth between possible worlds and exploring anti-consensus stuff just feels like how he villages ime

i don’t know if i can explain it better than not but imo he’s not that difficult to read when he’s actually plugged in like he is today

*than that

Hally, how do you feel about the recent contributions from c4, NAA, and Nanook just at face value? Without regard for interactions/mechanics/etc.

let me put it this way

you’ve found me as a villager and i’m saying i tend to read mac very well and think he’s a villager

why would you just ignore my read? do thinks i’m just wrong or what?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:10 pm let me put it this way

you’ve found me as a villager and i’m saying i tend to read mac very well and think he’s a villager

why would you just ignore my read? do thinks i’m just wrong or what?

*do you think

man i can’t type rn

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:10 pm let me put it this way

you’ve found me as a villager and i’m saying i tend to read mac very well and think he’s a villager

why would you just ignore my read? do thinks i’m just wrong or what?

I'm assuming this is for c4, but if you meant it for me let me know.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:00 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:58 pm not really but i think he’s just exaggerating idk

from his pov i’ve been his most vocal defender so i see why he thinks that

I'm just a little concerned that Mac is doing what he [feels he] must to ensure you stay in a pro-Mac camp at MYLO. Specifically you.

what exactly is he doing to ensure this?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:11 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:10 pm let me put it this way

you’ve found me as a villager and i’m saying i tend to read mac very well and think he’s a villager

why would you just ignore my read? do thinks i’m just wrong or what?

I'm assuming this is for c4, but if you meant it for me let me know.

it was for c4 but anyone is free to answer

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:11 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:00 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:58 pm not really but i think he’s just exaggerating idk

from his pov i’ve been his most vocal defender so i see why he thinks that

I'm just a little concerned that Mac is doing what he [feels he] must to ensure you stay in a pro-Mac camp at MYLO. Specifically you.

what exactly is he doing to ensure this?

Bolster your solving with pretty easy agreements (e.g. resigning to your take on Nanook/c4 without much dialogue) and buttering you up with weird comments about the general state of solving today

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:09 pm Hally, how do you feel about the recent contributions from c4, NAA, and Nanook just at face value? Without regard for interactions/mechanics/etc.

i don’t find any if their contributions inspiring to be honest

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:13 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:11 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:00 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:58 pm not really but i think he’s just exaggerating idk

from his pov i’ve been his most vocal defender so i see why he thinks that

I'm just a little concerned that Mac is doing what he [feels he] must to ensure you stay in a pro-Mac camp at MYLO. Specifically you.

what exactly is he doing to ensure this?

Bolster your solving with pretty easy agreements (e.g. resigning to your take on Nanook/c4 without much dialogue) and buttering you up with weird comments about the general state of solving today

i had him as a villager before that stuff though?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:10 pm let me put it this way

you’ve found me as a villager and i’m saying i tend to read mac very well and think he’s a villager

why would you just ignore my read? do thinks i’m just wrong or what?

1. Town can be wrong
2. Venom & Guns
3. Town can be wrong

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:15 pm i had him as a villager before that stuff though?

That's what I mean lol. He doesn't have to change your mind, he just has to keep you where you are while the rest of us continue to wonder out loud about Mac-as-mafia prospects. He knows you're going to engage any conversation.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:16 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:10 pm let me put it this way

you’ve found me as a villager and i’m saying i tend to read mac very well and think he’s a villager

why would you just ignore my read? do thinks i’m just wrong or what?

1. Town can be wrong
2. Venom & Guns
3. Town can be wrong

in venom and guns i called him a wolf immediately though? and only really changed because he bussed the fuck out of two of his teammates as they were trying to buss him, and even then i’m pretty sure i wasn’t that comfortable with him ever

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:16 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:15 pm i had him as a villager before that stuff though?

That's what I mean lol. He doesn't have to change your mind, he just has to keep you where you are while the rest of us continue to wonder out loud about Mac-as-mafia prospects. He knows you're going to engage any conversation.

man i feel like you’re trying to make me feel crazy here

i feel like i’m being gaslit or something

you all really think my mac read is that crazy?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:23 pm you all really think my mac read is that crazy?

No, I don't. I understand your read and for most of the game I have shared a dulled version of it.

At this stage though I am going to highlight anything that concerns me.

ok

well now i'm doubting myself so gj lol

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:25 pmok

Are there any single, significant moments in Mac's play that really push your read over the top? Like something comparable to the Nanook mechanics read.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:26 pm well now i'm doubting myself so gj lol

I know it's annoying as hell. It would feel great to just have real, thorough confidence about something.

@NotAnAxehole, do you think MR and Dizzy both turning out to be town should have any impact upon the way you progress through your process today (beyond just narrowing down the total pool of options)?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:50 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:45 pm Id have to sell myself first so

Is this to say that you have the team down to c4 and NAA?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:46 pm I am nowhere near caught up and may not do so tonight

okee dokee

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:27 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:25 pmok

Are there any single, significant moments in Mac's play that really push your read over the top? Like something comparable to the Nanook mechanics read.

honestly no, it’s just a holistic read

the moment that first made me feel comfortable with him as a villager was how he entered D2 pushing us

in GoC i locked him as a wolf from spec chat because town got stomped D1 but he came into D2 with no fire whatsoever and was making these empty one-liner fart posts

contrast that to how he entered D2 and D3 this game - he seems to actually care that we weren’t in a good position and felt motivated to figure out where things went wrong

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:31 pm @NotAnAxehole, do you think MR and Dizzy both turning out to be town should have any impact upon the way you progress through your process today (beyond just narrowing down the total pool of options)?

MR and Dizzy weren't apart of my solve process. I was just playing the odds that Alison would be right even if she wasn't full confidence.

So no.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:41 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:31 pm @NotAnAxehole, do you think MR and Dizzy both turning out to be town should have any impact upon the way you progress through your process today (beyond just narrowing down the total pool of options)?

MR and Dizzy weren't apart of my solve process. I was just playing the odds that Alison would be right even if she wasn't full confidence.

So no.

Any reason you valued Alison's legacy over your own process that led you to Mac?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:53 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:41 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:31 pm @NotAnAxehole, do you think MR and Dizzy both turning out to be town should have any impact upon the way you progress through your process today (beyond just narrowing down the total pool of options)?

MR and Dizzy weren't apart of my solve process. I was just playing the odds that Alison would be right even if she wasn't full confidence.

So no.

Any reason you valued Alison's legacy over your own process that led you to Mac?

I didn't / don't have a complete read on Mac. I haven't caught up on the game. My Mac read from earlier was his impact in the game, not a read on his alignment per say.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:57 pm

You're confused at what exactly?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:59 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:57 pm

You're confused at what exactly?

Not confused, just spamming that I am thinking for effect

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:49 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:13 pm Neither is Jay really tho. Only Hally is tbh.

What is the purpose of this post?

to encourage you to do more/vocalise that your lack of effort this day is starting to perturb me... what other purpose would there be?

i’m trying to think of what a world where NAA is a villager even looks like

what teams are even possible that don’t include him?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:05 pm i’m trying to think of what a world where NAA is a villager even looks like

what teams are even possible that don’t include him?

I would call c4/Mac possible. Nanook/Mac I struggle more with but maybe. Nanook/c4 no.

I am going to be candid. If you think c4/mac is possible you are not earnestly reading my play in this game at all with any kind of nuance.

All Mac worlds exist only in level 1 worlds except for Nanook/Mac fmpov. Nanook/Mac makes some sense due to there being preceivable requisite energy for both of us to ensure that it does not exist.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:09 pm I am going to be candid. If you think c4/mac is possible you are not earnestly reading my play in this game at all with any kind of nuance.

No. You already said once that it's mafia's chief job in a two-player team to dissociate and I agree, so if I am going to actually dissociate I need strong indicators that are hard to conceive as possible distancing. Mac/c4 isn't my first guess, but it's absolutely one to be considered.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:59 pm [VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine

Please explain this vote at 1 minute pre-deadline. If you already did just say so and I'll find it.

It has become clear that Axe actually has no scumread on me and is simply still deferring to Alison's d1 read. Yet he has not said that, which is another reason I think he is town because if he was mafia he would be just simply trying to get you all to sheep Alison's bad read. The agenda to get me chopped isn't strong enough for him to play the wildcard.

@Hally @JaggedJimmyJay earlier today Nanook and Axe put me at L-2 while both Hally and C4 were present. I was voted long enough I am sure given Jay was here not long prior or post this period, that if any combination of Hally/Jay/C4 were the exact 2 mafia the game would be over right now in a town loss. So I can rule out any combination of you three as being mafia. I can simply rule Hally out for not burying me today, and I think I can rule Jay out for the same.

Of the three remaining players, all three seem to be scumreading me for asinine reasons. Like really look at it for what it is (including any and all town inside those three). Their/your reasoning is bad/non existent and/or tinfoil oriented in the case of C4 (like his argument at this juncture is literally "mac CAN be mafia so he probably IS mafia). This is pretty indicative that there is mafia inside of that group of three that require my mischop to win the game. I'd go as far as to say that it's quite indicative that they feel like they need my mischop today in fact.

Looking at all three of you, you also have given no real effort to push any of the other three of you on this day. That is despite Axe and Nanook both having articulated strong scumreads on C4 at multiple points in the game. No real desire to push him today. This makes me think that c4 is always mafia. If the scum were Axe/Nanook, it has already become significantly easier to start to push C4 to get this win (especially given I am voting him). Ergo I feel C4 is outed via gamestate.

The question then becomes who is the other wolf. I think asking the question who is the most wolfy between Axe/Nanook is more pertinent than who is more likely to be with exactly C4. I have had a mostly consistent feel that Axe is town throughout the game. Nanook has not developed enough for my liking, in his read on me and his general play. I think Nanook is more likely than Axe but not by much.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:56 pm I didn't / don't have a complete read on Mac. I haven't caught up on the game. My Mac read from earlier was his impact in the game, not a read on his alignment per say.

I don't think I believe this.

To be clear since I forgot to mention: I wasn't here at all whenever there was a two vote wagon. When I returned I think the poll was empty.

I don't think its particularly likely mafia would have hammered there given the difficulty of voting in this game and this site's tendency towards cautious scum play around hammers

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:09 pm I am going to be candid. If you think c4/mac is possible you are not earnestly reading my play in this game at all with any kind of nuance.

No. You already said once that it's mafia's chief job in a two-player team to dissociate and I agree, so if I am going to actually dissociate I need strong indicators that are hard to conceive as possible distancing. Mac/c4 isn't my first guess, but it's absolutely one to be considered.

The disassociation between us is too level 1 is my point. It has not been strong enough or tactical enough. On day 1 when I pushed C4 he didn't fight me. He now says that my day 1 was shit, but I was right there to be pushed over, over Alison and he chose not to act on it on day 1 when it was there. He now says the SOD on day 2 was good but he didn't even start pushing me until day 3. On day 2 he voted Axe, with you. Today he is not, he is pushing me again even though he has articulated that I was worse at the start. His progression on me doesn't pass the logic test. And most of his play has been self defense today attempting to call on meta and reminding me (even though I am mafia to him) that I have not read him well historically. He is not solving, he is trying to survive and figure out how to correctly mischop today.

My literal only pause on C4 is in considering that he hasn't already given up pushing me and picked between Nook/Axe yet. Which is not to say it's a good look for him, it's actually bad, but it is the one thing that makes me tinfoil you Jay, because if it is you and him, neither of you would be quite aware yet which of the other two to bury for the kill and are probably still trying to feel out those two themselves to see if they will turn on each other. This is quite a stretch, but it's the most outlying thing I am considering.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:21 pm I don't think its particularly likely mafia would have hammered there given the difficulty of voting in this game and this site's tendency towards cautious scum play around hammers

If two mafia were here, you don't think they hammer? That is ludicrous lol.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:17 pm Looking at all three of you, you also have given no real effort to push any of the other three of you on this day. That is despite Axe and Nanook both having articulated strong scumreads on C4 at multiple points in the game. No real desire to push him today. This makes me think that c4 is always mafia. If the scum were Axe/Nanook, it has already become significantly easier to start to push C4 to get this win (especially given I am voting him). Ergo I feel C4 is outed via gamestate.

The question then becomes who is the other wolf. I think asking the question who is the most wolfy between Axe/Nanook is more pertinent than who is more likely to be with exactly C4. I have had a mostly consistent feel that Axe is town throughout the game. Nanook has not developed enough for my liking, in his read on me and his general play. I think Nanook is more likely than Axe but not by much.

I've considered similar things about c4.

Between Nanook and NAA, my answer is definitely NAA as being more independently suspicious. I am not sure he is keeping his story straight about you -- he deduced you're mafia (or had a "read") on the basis of the statistical analysis he described on Day 2, had you in a hard dichotomy with Nanook who I think made himself a lot clearer at EOD2, and still voted Dizzy... because Alison said so. Now today he is claiming his view of you isn't alignment-driven but rather something about "game impact", which doesn't make any sense to me with his prior statistical analysis in mind.