Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

juliets
Spacedaisy

Long Con
Matahari

dunya
speedchuck

Kites
Neverwhere
Dragon D. Luffy

Elohcin
Lunalee

I don't normally like to break out the blue for these, but I wanted five easily distinguishable tiers.

[speedchuck]

I feel very comfortable calling juliets and Spacedaisy civilians.
I feel pretty comfortable calling Matahari and Long Con civilians.

My "real" POE does not feature those four. I can also be tempted by you and dunya depending upon what I am looking at and what my mood is.

I'd switch Juliets and LC here.

LC is town IMO, based on actions.
Juliets looks town, and her role looks town, but I'm paranoid about it. The role almost looks TOO town.

What's the pro-town case on Mata?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kites is the one I struggle most with. At face value I think he looks good. The end. I really don't feel much concern about any one of his posts. I just wish I could construct a better argument for him than that. I could even give him a standalone tier or have him join dunya and speedchuck. I dunno.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What's the pro-town case on Mata?

It's similar to the tone-and-feel nature of the pro-town case for Kites, but considerably more substantial. I love the effort she has given, her reads have always looked authentic to me, and her most recent motions against dunya just don't seem fake at all. Her Jack interactions were a tough call, so some belated feedback on that would be great.

[juliets]

Where does everyone stand on Luna today and why? @speedchuck I'm worried about her role, do you understand why without me saying? I'm off to work soon and won't be back till this afternoon.

linki with dunya's post - I will have to wait until I get back later today to go through both posts.

After the flip we just had I'd say roles are not super indicative either way.

So no, I'm not sure I do understand.

OK, it's not because of the way her role sounds because on the face of it is sounds civ. There is another reason I'm concerned but I don't want to say it in the thread. I was hoping you could read my mind.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

On one hand I feel concern that I am still here and thus need to be more concerned about being in a pocket. On the other, I think nova may have prevented my death by jailing me on Night 2 when my niju curse failed.

dunya seems to to have some other theory for that failed kill. Dunno what.

[speedchuck]

On one hand I feel concern that I am still here and thus need to be more concerned about being in a pocket. On the other, I think nova may have prevented my death by jailing me on Night 2 when my niju curse failed.

dunya seems to to have some other theory for that failed kill. Dunno what.

She doesn't want to claim, but this seems kinda important

[speedchuck]

Where does everyone stand on Luna today and why? @speedchuck I'm worried about her role, do you understand why without me saying? I'm off to work soon and won't be back till this afternoon.

linki with dunya's post - I will have to wait until I get back later today to go through both posts.

After the flip we just had I'd say roles are not super indicative either way.

So no, I'm not sure I do understand.

OK, it's not because of the way her role sounds because on the face of it is sounds civ. There is another reason I'm concerned but I don't want to say it in the thread. I was hoping you could read my mind.

Can you give me a hint? Coordination? Other players' roles?

[dunya]

On one hand I feel concern that I am still here and thus need to be more concerned about being in a pocket. On the other, I think nova may have prevented my death by jailing me on Night 2 when my niju curse failed.

dunya seems to to have some other theory for that failed kill. Dunno what.

She doesn't want to claim, but this seems kinda important

i don't want to claim. i think it's lame in this setup. i'll tell you this: on n3 my role failed but there was no kill. on n2, my role didn't fail and there was no kill (but after i discussed some things with epi earlier for clarification, i realized i didn't even have a role on n2 for reasons i misunderstood in my role). i don't have a night action tonight either, if mafia wanna have a go at me.

[juliets]

I feel very comfortable calling juliets and Spacedaisy civilians.
I feel pretty comfortable calling Matahari and Long Con civilians.

My "real" POE does not feature those four. I can also be tempted by you and dunya depending upon what I am looking at and what my mood is.

I'd switch Juliets and LC here.

LC is town IMO, based on actions.
Juliets looks town, and her role looks town, but I'm paranoid about it. The role almost looks TOO town.

What's the pro-town case on Mata?

Lol.

This is funny to me because in my tinfoiliest mind LC could be bad. LC is a gambit guy and what better, more brilliant gambit than to bus Jack with a made up role (I mean the role is really weird you have to admit) and ride the wave of being mechanically cleared until the end. Now, do I believe that happened? No, but it's still an idea that creeps up on me when I'm considering people.

So speed , regarding my role, if I were mafia the only way I could die and still be able to post is if the vig killed me at night. That role would be terrible, the chances of it happening small. A cruel role. Maybe you want to believe that is possible but I think you've got to admit it's highly unlikely.

Ok I have to make myself go read Jay's post about dunya. No offense meant Jay, I just know it's long and involved and my brain is tired.

linki speedchuck: the hint it other players(plural) roles

[juliets]

Correction to my post:

should be "if the vig killed me".

Also should be "the hint is other players(plural) roles"

[speedchuck]

"if the vig killed me".

I know. It almost says "I'm town" in the role card. Scary.

[Matahari]

Hmm. Dunyas last post might make me change her color to pink. Ugh, I wish I had more time to be active today and ask questions.

[juliets]

"if the vig killed me".

I know. It almost says "I'm town" in the role card. Scary.

Lol! Ok, I get you. There's nothing I can say about this to make you feel better. Just try to focus on my behavior instead of the role description.

Also, on an unrelated note, you said in a recent post that I can't now put my finger on that you were concerned about Luna. Concern may not be the right word but it sounded like what you were saying is you are trying to figure her out. Is that the case? I ask because I'm trying to figure her out too. Every time I try I come away with not having enough to vote for her. What are you seeing as the puts and takes on her?

[speedchuck]

"if the vig killed me".

I know. It almost says "I'm town" in the role card. Scary.

Lol! Ok, I get you. There's nothing I can say about this to make you feel better. Just try to focus on my behavior instead of the role description.

Also, on an unrelated note, you said in a recent post that I can't now put my finger on that you were concerned about Luna. Concern may not be the right word but it sounded like what you were saying is you are trying to figure her out. Is that the case? I ask because I'm trying to figure her out too. Every time I try I come away with not having enough to vote for her. What are you seeing as the puts and takes on her?

I've never been able to read Luna. It's even harder to read her when she basically doesn't show up to a game.

Maybe she's tired of being scum, and we should just lynch her. I don't know.

[dunya]

i'm guessing luna is claiming to be 1-shot by your posts juliets? if so, so is LC and that in itself doesn't make me suspect him.

[dunya]

maybe i'm completely misinterpreting your coded post lol

[speedchuck]

i'm guessing luna is claiming to be 1-shot by your posts juliets? if so, so is LC and that in itself doesn't make me suspect him.

Nope.

It'll be cleared up one way or another come daytime.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]dunya[/mention] is it impossible that the lack of a Night 2 kill can be attributed to nova protecting me?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]dunya[/mention], I’ll reiterate that this question is important to me:

How and when is a civilian DDL supposed to use his role?

[dunya]

@dunya is it impossible that the lack of a Night 2 kill can be attributed to nova protecting me?

if you're bad, then yes.

if you're town, then no.

i'm working on eloh as i did spacedaisy, so please don't @ me a lot right now. i have limited time before end of night.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@dunya is it impossible that the lack of a Night 2 kill can be attributed to nova protecting me?

if you're bad, then yes.

if you're town, then no.

i'm working on eloh as i did spacedaisy, so please don't @ me a lot right now. i have limited time before end of night.

Any answer to that question about DDL would be much appreciated before you go this evening.

[dunya]

dunya, I’ll reiterate that this question is important to me:

How and when is a civilian DDL supposed to use his role?

if i had his role as a civilian: when i feel under pressure to be lynched, i would take my name off the poll. or, more likely, i would remove my biggest town reads off the poll at some point. or maybe names that are almost unanimously read as town. the narrowing it down to inactives and no-posters at a time when there was general agreement about it anyway felt like bad intentions to me and a chance to say "look my role is so townie, i'm mechanically cleared now" imo.

[dunya]

i just didn't feel the town motive was there. i don't see it like you do so agree to disagree.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

[juliets]

If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

Why?

[juliets]

Or just point me to where you've already said why if you've done it lately and I missed it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

Why?

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to view her as a civilian. The only other player like that is Neverwhere.

[juliets]

If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

Why?

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to view her as a civilian. The only other player like that is Neverwhere.

Ok, I'm close to that. I have one reason - her role - but even that's tenuous.

[juliets]

But [mention]speedchuck[/mention] says we'll know at daylight. I think I know what he means.

[dunya]

this eloh thing is too long. i dunno if i wanna post it. should i just post conclusions? try to slim it up?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

this eloh thing is too long. i dunno if i wanna post it. should i just post conclusions? try to slim it up?

Please post everything. Multiple posts if you must. At least I’ll read it all

[Matahari]

If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

Why?

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to view her as a civilian. The only other player like that is Neverwhere.

Earlier you said you had 0 reason to see Elohcin as a civ. Is she on your list too?

[Elohcin]

oh great, another wall of text to skip over. Sorry guys, but y'all make mafia too much work. It is supposed to be fun. Y'all are the kind of people who, as kids, were excited to go to school and even more excited when your teacher gave you busywork. Am I right?

[dunya]

thoughts on eloh (don't click because it's long, eloh):

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I am aware that right in the beginning Jay throws out names attached to alignments like candy. But now others are doing it too, namely dunya and nutella. Is this knew? Are they just trying to seem civ since Jay does it when he is civ? IDK.

I liked juliets' post which questioned nutella's reads, I thought that was spot on. Nutella says her posting lyrics is a challenge for herself to get into the theme of the game. How is copying and pasting lyrics from the internet a challenge? I think it is an attempt as a distractions from making reads.

I disagree with Jack and agree with Jay that daisy's reads look authentic. I am calling daisy civ for now.

?=no memorable posts
Dragon D. Luffy - ?
dunya - yellow
Elochin - GREEN
Jackofhearts2005 - yellow
JaggedJimmyJay - green
juliets - greem
Kites - yellow
leetic - ?
Long Con - ?
Lunalee - green
MacDougall - ?
Matahari - red - the post where she/he said all that she's been able to do is make some connections but isn't willing to share them
Neverwhere - ?
nijuukyugou - ?
novaselinenever - yellow
nutella - red - but I always think she is bad and that her posts seem baddie aligned
reywaS - ?
Spacedaisy - green
speedchuck - yellow

I am on page 9. But I have to use my computer for family use atm and cannot read anymore.

this might be the first time eloh has pumped out one of these so quickly and i kinda liked that she dug in. i hated the introductory part of her post and had beef with her about it. so +1 -1

nova had beef with her ddl question mark and luna green. i don't see anything wrong with her ddl question mark because i'm 5 nights into this game and i would be lying if i told you i remembered much of ddl's posts. .... i'm not kidding. i have to iso him to remember what i think of him or what he thinks of anyone. that's kinda bad. (i just know his roleclaim and how he used his role. that shit is memorable.) but before that? nothing.

luna unexplained green is a genuine gripe i guess.

Nova when prodded said that every post speedchuck has made pings him.

Who agrees with that?

Because I couldn't disagree more.

I don't think chuck has given us enough to work with or to BE pinged. I'm waiting for the meds to ware off before making a decision about him.

now i don't like this. eloh gave speed a yellow, that implies eloh was in fact pinged, but she's agreeing with mac that nothing speed has done has pinged her? [mention]Elohcin[/mention] maybe you can explain this.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

why would town mac give dunya an easy day green pass just because she hasn't said something "scummy"? other people have found things scummy in what i've said. i don't feel you're being genuine and the sarcasm on me was lost.

i'm not even here to play my hardest civ game, so don't tell me my "civ" is shining through. explain what gave you good vibes about me or this becomes as bad as elohcin's "green" to luna that everyone took issue with imo.

“Mac’s not getting lynched today.”

This is what I'm thinking. Does baddie dunya toss votes here and there before landing on her actual choice? I find this behavior odd.

I was just giving Dunya shit for voting Mac after telling me to get over voting Daisy.

That's fine to have your own reasoning. I am just telling you what I am getting from dunya's voting. It seems like she is just placing votes willy nilly before settling on who she actually wants to vote for.

this post is interesting to me. jack needs to make a point to clarify that he isn't shading me as eloh is when she quotes his post, but giving me shit because of what i said to him (implying he was just teashing me). he doesn't want to shade me. he wanted to stay on my good side and not get into conflict. in a vacuum, this specific series of thoughts doesn't make me feel eloh and jack are teammates. i didn't notice this before. good catch, dunya.

Eloh is always wrong about me and refuses to see reason. Jay is misguided but will come around. Two of ddl, Mac, and juliets are bad and the other thinks they're clever.

What makes you so confident in two baddies among DDL, Mac, and Jules?

I'm not so confident about it, but I have some suspicion on all three of them and would be fairly surprised if none of them were bad. I'm leaning a little more town on Mac and more bad on juliets and ddl for various reasons that are unrelated to their voting for me but it does seem that I'd be a convenient bandwagon vote for scum.

Okay. I just feel like when someone makes a statement like, two of these three players are bad, it exudes confidence. Like you know it to be true. Remember, one must be careful what they claim in games. I as completely ignored in my last game for a whole phase and voted for wrongly b/c the cop made a claim against me and everyone believed them. In fact, I think you might have been that cop. I never completely hold those details b/c I have too many RL details to remember. But yeah, be careful on your claims.

this game eloh references was the Gossip Girl game i hosted. i notice some serious bitterness here. eloh witnessed people taking a claim left behind by a flipped cop nutella literally and getting her mislynched for it at lylo. this biterness and warning feels like it's coming from civ eloh warning nutella not to make the same mistake again...i dunno. could see it both ways where it's fake civ eloh giving nutella a little shake down as well. meh.

another reason you can't do this crap, JJJ, is b/c of time zones. it is very disrespectful to those across the pond. Mac may be bad, and if so....good for those voters, praise be. But if not, that poor man had no way to defend himself b/c the thread decided to change things up on him while he was asleep. this is why we have 24 hours to discuss, so that everyone can be involved WHEN THEY ARE AWAKE. Voting someone while they are asleep and not giving them time to rebuttle is horrible.

linki...okay, he was mafia. my point still stands.

and this is the post that had a defining moment in my view. there were several posts before it, but this one in particular. she linki'd with epi. the votes were probably locked in as she typed away angrily. i just cannot genuinely believe mac's teammate would react that negatively and attract that much attention to herself lol. maybe i see this differently than everyone else because of how extensively eloh and i have discussed mafia and the new mafia culture over discord and her reasons for not playing anymore (only when epi is struggling to fill up a game apparently ). i cannot believe this scolding and talking down to was from scum eloh.

i've never seen eloh react so negatively and emotionally to something like this and don't think it's typical of her in game personality. if you can prove otherwise, i'm all eyes.

i'll carry on anyway because some people might want to disregard that specific conclusion i came to.

I think LC and niju would be easy targets for mafia. Honestly, I think they are civs who just aren't paying attention to a damn thing. They are the kind of civs this game that keep civs from winning.

in hindsight, this could be tmi or could be genuine disdain at the thought of lynching an inactive. i don't really recall civ eloh's stance on lynching low-posters / inactives in general tbh. she does give some rationale about what she expects from a mafia niju so it's not all hot air. she continued to defend niju amidst the whole theories of niju having saved mac. staying consistent.

I know I fought for her in the beginning, but Luna has become one of my top suspects. She isn't acting like her civ self. Also, Kites. I don't know this person well, but his posts seem odd. Then there is Mata. I think this person could be bad. The whole building connections thing but will not tell us, that was weird. His "helpfulness" doesn't seem so helpful.

elohcin gave some reads. i wasn't hot about luna shifting from green to top suspect so quickly, but i do see she posed some questions for luna and told her she was beginning to doubt her tone before churning that out. but "top suspects" seems like a bit of a reach.

I am not sure what I think of LC now. Why would he come out and say he is 100% sure Jack is bad. If he is telling the truth and he can determine the alignment of a player as his power, then why give up his life (of course Mafia would kill him now, right?). There are still other mafia left. Wouldn't he want to be a little more vague and keep him life so he can keep playing and keep helping the civs catch baddies? Couldn't he put a little more effort in and build a case on Jack and get us to follow? I just don't know. I am confused.

what is this? lol. is this post something mafia eloh would make if she had btsc with jack? i mean, she does a lot of shady shit that i can look for mafia intentions behind and make a full blown "lynch eloh" post on, but i don't believe this. i don't feel like eloh has btsc with anyone or she wouldn't have made that post imo. i don't have time to finish her iso and this has become too long, and a chore and i gtg in a bit.

conclusion:
i am someone who's always prone to reading eloh as bad, sometimes i'm right, sometimes i'm wrong. i think this is the first game i kinda town read her and it's based on 1. that last post there. i just can't imagine she has btsc with jack and churns that out. 2. the mac emotional post. 3. that jack post i caught reading her iso where she was shading me and jack points out he was only teasing me. it was weird. just weird.

i could probably make a case for eloh being unhelpful or bad. she's not my strongest town read, but i can't ignore that i'm influenced by emotional tells and i'm not sorry about it. i think it helps direct my intuition and i don't feel she was being disingenuous or fake like i have felt her act in the past (rightly so).

[dunya]

i promised i'd iso spacedaisy and elohcin and not rely on emotional posts to influence my reads. i honestly did that as best as i could. i wanted to get to ddl, but it's been a busy day and i don't have energy to do one of these on DDL. since he's in most people's poes, i'm not bothered.

[dunya]

speedchuck has done more townie things this night phase than any other phase (well, he was super helpful with the curse too last night). i feel scum speed would have jumped on the "dunya is bad bandwagon" without blinking, but he took time to actually look shit up and defend me. he took jay's role, which jay himself was so negative about, and gave us a character cop out of it. i don't have much reason to think speed is bad tonight but he isn't town cleared either.

[dunya]

kites is my wildcard. his mac vote is the thing that stood out the most to me and how he was kinda laying low, but he was kinda forced into this game by me. his vote tally posts were such a kites thing to do. i don't know, i just love him, i guess?

[dunya]

neverwhere is never here. her posts don't give me reason to feel good about her.

[dunya]

i feel pretty confident about spacedaisy, juliets, LC.

i feel good about speedchuck, eloh and matahari.

that means ddl, luna, neverwhere and jay can be my 4 player poe

kites is the wildcard i love.

and those are my final words tonight. i wasted way too much time today, hope it's helpful. good luck if i'm not around tomorrow.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

Why?

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to view her as a civilian. The only other player like that is Neverwhere.

Earlier you said you had 0 reason to see Elohcin as a civ. Is she on your list too?

I don’t trust that she is authentic. There is considerable disagreement on that point though, and I am willing to listen. Elohcin being a mafioso would not be surpising to me at all — that’s a simple way to put it.

[juliets]

oh great, another wall of text to skip over. Sorry guys, but y'all make mafia too much work. It is supposed to be fun. Y'all are the kind of people who, as kids, were excited to go to school and even more excited when your teacher gave you busywork. Am I right?

Elo, you might want to talk to the mod about the things bothering you about this game. It's Sloonei and he's got a good listening ear. I wouldn't recommend skipping Jay and dunya's posts, just try reading them in little bits. I promise they are not that bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

oh great, another wall of text to skip over. Sorry guys, but y'all make mafia too much work. It is supposed to be fun. Y'all are the kind of people who, as kids, were excited to go to school and even more excited when your teacher gave you busywork. Am I right?

You’re not right. I was a trash student. And I do have fun playing my way. Stop insulting me.

[dunya]

Why is it still night D:

[juliets]

Why is it still night D:

Well it looks like day ended at 7:23 and it probably took a little while to get the Lynch post up. Should be ending really soon though.

[juliets]

Yeah actually [mention]dunya[/mention] looks like it should have been over at 7:26 pm edt.

[speedchuck]

For the record, I've never seen Luna flat-out ignore a mafia game like with this one.

She probably needs to go.

I could see her as unmotivated with either alignment, technically, but there's not much else to do here.

[Epignosis]

Donald Fagen and Walter Becker smiled for the camera.

They know you'll love them better.

Matahari has been cut.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Peg
And when you smile for the camera- you know I’ll love you better!

Smile for the camera. Beautiful. If anyone targets your target at Night, you’ll take some pictures, and from these pin shots, the name of the actor will come back to you. It’s your favorite foreign movie.

You are civilian. You win when all the mafia are dead.

It is now Day 6. You have 24 hours to submit your PMs.

[dunya]

[juliets]

oooooh does that mean if she targeted someone and someone else targeted them she learned who they were?

RIP mata it was great to play with you again, PLEASE play with us some more, you did a great job.