Re: [DAY 3] Literal WWerecreatures Invade Syndicate Zoo: An SDN Crossover Game
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:59 pm
I also think Dennis can confirm this
Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
I kinda think their vibe/proccess into putting their vote int marmot fits what you are saying here about their wolf game though?NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:57 pmThe thing with miranda is I feel like she was a lot more confident as a wolf, like into LAMIST territory, which is what pinged me in the FE game when she was wolfing. And I haven't seen that here. It's not really town points, but that plus Creature casually piling on her makes her not really a priority for me. I'd rather give her space and see what she does.santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:20 pmBecause they've been less talked about. And I don't know how Dennis plays, and I know miranda a little more and they havent hit a single town note for me yet, so more worrysomeMacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:18 pmWhy?santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:18 pm Hmmmm
[VOTE: Miranda] aubergine
Nevermind this feels better
When you cast the vote the wagons were 8 to 6 Scotty over Creature and Scotty was offwagon and in the thread.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:51 pmI'm not that dumb.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:41 pm Scotty doesn't need my vote is quite clearly "Creature is safe so I don't need to vote Scotty" made manifest into words imo.
I was giving Creature a break because my other experience with him was as low-posting town who got suspected for it, and I was fine with the Scotty wagon. If I were a partner I could have stayed on Creature for cred since it didn't look like he was going over.
This right here shows you’re backing Slooneis’s point but then adding a “i’m not town reading falcons” post to give yourself an outMayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:56 amThough I'm not town reading falcon.Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:40 amI think that's come through clearly in your posts, but it's clear they don't want to engage. I still think they seem like a villager who is tired of the same argument.Zenge wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:32 amThe issue I take with Sloonei, isn’t that they’re reading it as v/v.Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:23 amReading it as an outsider to the argument, I think they are frustrated that it's been going on for a week and a half without either you or falcon really offering anything new.Zenge wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:04 amThis isn’t “calm and reason”.Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:55 pmGet out of here with your calm and reasoning.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:26 pm I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.
You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.
Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.
I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.
Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.
They refused to actually answer the question I was asking. They said a lot of words without saying anything of meaning.
Sloonei's post reads like trying to move the thread along. I would guess that's why they aren't engaging with your questions.
If falcon were to flip wolf, it wouldn't be a great look for Sloonei, but they wouldn't be the only person viewing the argument as V/V.
It’s the way in which the initial response to me pushing Falcon was an attempt to shut down any conversation by saying “that’s just how Falcon is” without ever being willing to highlight specific parts of the interaction they agreed with and disagreed with, despite repeated requests to do so. Never once.
If your falcon tunnel is right, then it's more likely that I'm wrong about how I interpreted that post.
Sloonei has sounded town in how they have approached this to me, even if I think he could have dodged some frustration by answering questions earlier.
Yes, and when I voted Creature it put him in a 7/7 tie with Scotty, who as you point out was offwagon and could have put Creature in the lead.MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:04 amWhen you cast the vote the wagons were 8 to 6 Scotty over Creature and Scotty was offwagon and in the thread.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:51 pmI'm not that dumb.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:41 pm Scotty doesn't need my vote is quite clearly "Creature is safe so I don't need to vote Scotty" made manifest into words imo.
I was giving Creature a break because my other experience with him was as low-posting town who got suspected for it, and I was fine with the Scotty wagon. If I were a partner I could have stayed on Creature for cred since it didn't look like he was going over.
So no, if you were a partner and wanted Creature to live you couldn't have.
Your vote putting 3 between them actually prevented Scotty from self preserving.
Tomorrow evening. It’s 2 AM.
Rest plsSloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:46 amTomorrow evening. It’s 2 AM.
First of all, thank you for coining MR7, it's fantastic shorthand for my name.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:26 pm
mightyrunner7 was insanified by Creature on night 1. It's quite wifom, but I will give it a very minor point in their favour simply because the wifom leads you to "just put it on a town because people will read it as wifom anyway so there's not much value in putting it on a wolf" is a true enough statement. Particularly when MR7 is already kinda likely to be town.
I agree this isn't how probability works and nobody should use this data as AIpotentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:55 pm The odds of him randing scum three times in a row:
1.56%
Not impossible. But it would be MIGHTY unlikely.
oh yestutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:51 am i think marmot being 3p is more likely than mafia having a janitor
if marmot is town janitored by mafia, that means marmot was also shot by mafia. that can't be
perhaps a 3p role shot marmot, but more likely they're a 3p themselves?
probably multiple 3p in this vampire faction as mac said (their ability)?
Wow we have resolved every d1 wagon except Dennis. The only other significant wagon during the day was Miranda.MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:26 pmThere is still likely to be one between Dennis and Nate. Interestingly we now have confirmation that Creature had at least one wolf bussing. Which is a very strange thing for Falcon to be doing. Perhaps Falcon did this because he was also being tunneled by Zenge and figured he wasn't going to go deep and figured that forcing a dicho out of him and Creature was sound. That's reasonable enough to assume, to suggest that the extent of the bussing may have ended there.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 10:53 pm Votecount as of end of day 1
Scotty 8 - (Marmot, dyachei/lawpy, mightyrunner7, SportPonies, Neon, Creature, Sloonei, potentialsheltervet)
Creature 5 - (Mayo the Mayo, Kate, S~V~S, falcon45ca, DrWilgy)
Dennis 3 - (Animal Midwife, Scotty, NateTheLesser)
SportPonies 3 - (Seanzie, miranda920, pyxxy)
Falcon45ca 2 - (Zenge, santygrass)
pyxxy 1 - (genny)
Marmot 1 - (Dennis)
Did not vote 1 - (SARdoghandler)
Notes:
The mafia shooting Animal Midwife on night 1 after Scotty goes over, quite blatantly spews the Dennis wagon. Almost too blatantly. I am very confident there is a strong difference check between Dennis and NateTheLesser at this time.
I personally view Creature as a probable hit. He is not his towny self and has no enthusiasm. He keeps talking about his lack of energy/engagement which I have seen him do as mafia because he genuinely does not enjoy wolfing. I think Creature does need to be resolved to help town make heads or tails of the gamestate. I also don't trust Marmot at all and observed Marmot defend Creature during day 1 in a really questionable way. His reasons for ending up voting Scotty felt like he was trying to reach for justifications to be voting town, if Creature was town he wouldn't need to make said justifications.
Obviously if Creature and Dennis are both mafia, the Scotty wagon is very likely to contain multiple mafia. I'd be particularly interested in those who are more familiar with Scotty coming under fire, especially because after reading his ISO he felt like very basic Scotty, who is an A++ town player especially mid to late game. I would expect the likes of Marmot, Neon and Sloonei to be disinclined from killing Scotty day 1 over Creature when comparing their two isos.
@Sloonei, @Neon, @Marmot why did you end up voting out Scotty over Creature?
mightyrunner7 was insanified by Creature on night 1. It's quite wifom, but I will give it a very minor point in their favour simply because the wifom leads you to "just put it on a town because people will read it as wifom anyway so there's not much value in putting it on a wolf" is a true enough statement. Particularly when MR7 is already kinda likely to be town.
Given I think Seanzie is pretty much never with Falcon, I think that Miranda is very likely a hit for their Ponies vote.
It is important to keep coming back to this VC throughout the game because if the Scotty wagon ends up not having more than two wolves on it, the wagonomics outside there becomes more significant. Things like my statement above about Miranda take on less significance of the mafia actually really did vote Scotty in a large volume to save Creature as it makes pure wagons on town slightly more likely.
could santy be 3p vampire coz of this
This actually feels like a genuine slip. I believe he didn't know Creature had the role. But I also want to know why you dismissed the idea completely @NateTheLesser?NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 1:49 amThere's not a post restrictor, unless it's something an inventor cooked up.
Doubt that's the reason. He directly interacted with me in a normal way after I subbed in. And I'd expect if it was for that reason he'd have subbed out entirely.
oh alright i missed that post(s)MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:35 amDoubt that's the reason. He directly interacted with me in a normal way after I subbed in. And I'd expect if it was for that reason he'd have subbed out entirely.
I came out of Creature's ISO with Santy spewed town. I have since lost faith in that read lol.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:27 am lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR
any reason at all to townread these slots?
only thing i come up with is nate putting in a lot of effort and santy having good tone. my reason for townreading lawpy was tunneling sloonei in a *hold my hands over my ears lalalalala* way
I don't think a Jay game would have anything remotely resembling stacking the teams honestly.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:31 am also
since jay is this kumbayah diplomat gandhi martin luther king jr
i bet he rigged the rand in the sense of
he wanted an equal amount of SDNers and Syndicators to be mafia
coz jay is all about the E Q U A L I T Y this game judging from evertything im seeing
not actually sure how confident i am in this. probably not the best design principle coz it outs a lot of alignments late-game if people figure it out
so maybe not, maybe there can be a few more people wolf from one community than the other
but thats just my soul read on jay
jay is 100% the type of guy to do that in a game he's co-designing
bet betMacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:37 amI came out of Creature's ISO with Santy spewed town. I have since lost faith in that read lol.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:27 am lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR
any reason at all to townread these slots?
only thing i come up with is nate putting in a lot of effort and santy having good tone. my reason for townreading lawpy was tunneling sloonei in a *hold my hands over my ears lalalalala* way
what is your conclusion from it?NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:33 am I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:
miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)
Hes trying to highlight that two wolves voted him. Defending himself from me.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:46 amwhat is your conclusion from it?NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:33 am I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:
miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)
oh lolMacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:49 amHes trying to highlight that two wolves voted him. Defending himself from me.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:46 amwhat is your conclusion from it?NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:33 am I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:
miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)
Lawpy has like ... sounded sincere and dya wasn't like wolfy sounding. Yay.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:27 am lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR
any reason at all to townread these slots?
only thing i come up with is nate putting in a lot of effort and santy having good tone. my reason for townreading lawpy was tunneling sloonei in a *hold my hands over my ears lalalalala* way
in fact falcon and creature being those exact wolves makes nate scummier, if anythingtutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:50 amoh lolMacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:49 amHes trying to highlight that two wolves voted him. Defending himself from me.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:46 amwhat is your conclusion from it?NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:33 am I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:
miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)
i dont think 2 wolves voting u early day 1 is the most cromulent of arguments for why ur town
alright thanksMacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:53 amLawpy has like ... sounded sincere and dya wasn't like wolfy sounding. Yay.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:27 am lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR
any reason at all to townread these slots?
only thing i come up with is nate putting in a lot of effort and santy having good tone. my reason for townreading lawpy was tunneling sloonei in a *hold my hands over my ears lalalalala* way
genny like ... null.
Nate is solvy and defensive in a towny way. Didn't seem to know Creature had a post restrictor role.
Creature tried to push Santy when he wasn't around d1.
SAR kinda buried Falcon d2 in a non partnery way. Just sheeping Zenge. Didn't feel teammy at all.
I think there's a pretty good chance this is a list you wrote in wolfchat and labelled "potential miselims". Why is Miranda and MR7 not in your list here?
alright, not sure if i buy into townreading SAR for this, but i buy into townreading miranda more due to thisMacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:00 am I don't think Miranda and MR7 are wolves tbh I just brought them up to make sure you had thought about them genuinely. I think you did so that's good.
Miranda is being shielded by SAR as well which I think is a good look for both of them. I think Miranda is someone a wolf SAR would be pushing here as an easy miselim and probably wouldn't be shielding if w/w cuz the rest of the SDNers would be skeptical.