The Syndicate

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:35 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 pm Trying to suspect Jay or Nutella was legitimately annoying. I did not enjoy it.

Sorry man, I really gave you a hard time this game and I actually feel kinda bad about it.

It's okay.

I'd rather you be scum and do this than pull another Firefly.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 pm Trying to suspect Jay or Nutella was legitimately annoying. I did not enjoy it.

I think I benefited some from that Bulbagarden game we played in. Despite the grisly serial killer end, it got me freshened up for a better run as a mafioso in this one. I really don't get opportunities to be a bad guy very often. The randomizers want me to be good.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:35 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 pm "I don't think Epi is going to actually attempt to get me lynched. He rarely actually tries to push wagons. He just takes potshots and then complains when people don't agree. " -Mac

This guy.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

This is nothing, you should read Firefly Mafia some time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:34 pm Thanks again to [mention]nutella[/mention], [mention]MacDougall[/mention], and [mention]Ultra[/mention] for giving a great effort and securing this sucker. I've never had a better set of mafia teammates.

Me saying the same would be hollow because I actually have terrible long term memory but it's certainly one of the best two that I was in this month.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

Believe it or not, what you saw in this game was about 60-70% of what you'd see from me in my civilian body. I feel that I have one of the most difficult civilian metas to match on the entire Internet, and for that reason I often don't even try -- I do enough to stay alive.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

This is where meta reading is handy. To an unfamiliar observer, he looks like the town leader. To folks who've played with him before, his play was shortsighted and erratic. He ignored things he wouldn't ordinarily ignore and focused on things he would not normally care about.

Pretty interesting. I'm definitely gonna play more games on this site.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:50 pm DDL you were amazing.

I don't know what it happened but it happened. I finally learned to scumhunt.

I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

If I was a civilian I would have helped you lynch Jay. I was just a big fat Snorlax blocking the way without looking too suspicious in doing so.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 pm Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

That's definitely not the mistake you made.

The mistake you made was being overconfident on your baddie reads.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

While we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.

Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

Believe it or not, what you saw in this game was about 60-70% of what you'd see from me in my civilian body. I feel that I have one of the most difficult civilian metas to match on the entire Internet, and for that reason I often don't even try -- I do enough to stay alive.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

This is where meta reading is handy. To an unfamiliar observer, he looks like the town leader. To folks who've played with him before, his play was shortsighted and erratic. He ignored things he wouldn't ordinarily ignore and focused on things he would not normally care about.

Pretty interesting. I'm definitely gonna play more games on this site.

You should. In my first year here I lost 7 consecutive games as town.

That was when I realized being good at NF means shit and I had to work harder to improve.

Fantastic performance by the rest of my team

Another scum win under my belt zehaha

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm Fantastic performance by the rest of my team

Another scum win under my belt zehaha

And a win earned, sir. The grief you gave me on Day 1 made a difference.

[mention]rundontwalk2[/mention] come back after exams, baby! we loved having you here. thanks for filling in and good luck <3

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

While we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.

Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.

Have good instincts.
Be compelling in your cases.
Know when you drop a bad case and follow someone else.

I personally have always had number one but I only developed number two and three very recently.

I never bus my teammates D1 unless they're self-destructing.

Ultra was the only case and only vote I made. That makes me good. I don't care if the credit looks not good enough for some people. Me having to defend myself this game was ridiculous.

[mention]Luxurious[/mention], my greatest lamentation in this game was that I didn't get to be on your team.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm That was when I realized being good at NF means shit and I had to work harder to improve.

i dunno, i'm noticing some hardcore mafia players on NF lately.

Omg I was so happy about reading Jay and nutella correctly I didn't notice Mac was bad too.

Damn.

I need to scrap my Mac definitions. They suck.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm Fantastic performance by the rest of my team

Another scum win under my belt zehaha

Even though it ended up helping the team, I was disappointed that you were first to go. I wanted to see what all the newcomers would bring to the table, and you showed some stuff in your brief time in the game. I hope we find ourselves in a game together sometime.

Way back when I went on a mafia win streak where I basically refused to defend myself. That tends to work better. Just ignoring the temptation to talk about myself.

I didn't do that this game, but man you guys made me want to.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm That was when I realized being good at NF means shit and I had to work harder to improve.

i dunno, i'm noticing some hardcore mafia players on NF lately.

It's not completely terrible but it's a wide range between solid ones and craptastic ones. And I've won games by just lynching the craptastic ones in succession.

All of the new players were excellent, and I enjoyed playing with them.

[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention], I'm sorry for the way this one ended. I'm so glad we got to play a game together again though. You always make games better.

I felt bad getting lynched D1 especially because I didn't give it my best effort - I could have saved my own ass but I wasn't in a great mood that day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing scum for me is very exhausting but also very rewarding so my performance really depends on my mindset.

But at least my interactions were obscure enough to lead to a couple of mislynches.

The Mafia played on this site is some of the most competitive on the Internet. People come here to get better. I hope this community takes pride in that.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm I felt bad getting lynched D1 especially because I didn't give it my best effort - I could have saved my own ass but I wasn't in a great mood that day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing scum for me is very exhausting but also very rewarding so my performance really depends on my mindset.

But at least my interactions were obscure enough to lead to a couple of mislynches.

Continue to play with us! I look forward to seeing the civilian side of Ultra, for one thing.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm Omg I was so happy about reading Jay and nutella correctly I didn't notice Mac was bad too.

Damn.

I need to scrap my Mac definitions. They suck.

When you think you know the answers I change the questions.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

While we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.

Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.

Have good instincts.
Be compelling in your cases.
Know when you drop a bad case and follow someone else.

I personally have always had number one but I only developed number two and three very recently.

The development of #3 was a pretty pivotal moment for me as a mafia player. I still need to remind myself at some point in every game that it's entirely possible I'm wrong about everything.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm I felt bad getting lynched D1 especially because I didn't give it my best effort - I could have saved my own ass but I wasn't in a great mood that day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing scum for me is very exhausting but also very rewarding so my performance really depends on my mindset.

But at least my interactions were obscure enough to lead to a couple of mislynches.

I like you. Please play again.

Mac did a great job to pivot completely away from Steely Dan and do everything here in a way that can be traced to nothing but the civilian we all know and love.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:45 pm The Mafia played on this site is some of the most competitive on the Internet. People come here to get better. I hope this community takes pride in that.

I thought they came for Wilgy's cactus ass.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:46 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

While we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.

Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.

Have good instincts.
Be compelling in your cases.
Know when you drop a bad case and follow someone else.

I personally have always had number one but I only developed number two and three very recently.

The development of #3 was a pretty pivotal moment for me as a mafia player. I still need to remind myself at some point in every game that it's entirely possible I'm wrong about everything.

#juliets
#colonialbob

the north remembers.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:45 pm The Mafia played on this site is some of the most competitive on the Internet. People come here to get better. I hope this community takes pride in that.

I thought they came for Wilgy's cactus ass.

Tourism is also on the rise.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:27 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:11 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

A civilian who's able to not get lynched is doing something right. And this is your first game in a new environment. You don't know the site-wide meta, or any individual player metas. What matters is that you, as a civilian, put your earnest thoughts into the thread and make a sincere effort to figure things out. I don't think anyone can fault you for not pegging a mafia team comprised of 4 strangers.

I disagree. A civilian that's only being town read for shit play is doing something wrong. I mean yeah, lack of meta knowledge affects my reads but only to some extent. I can still scum read players for what's in the their posts and stuff that isn't really related to meta. I doubt every scum read on the true scum players had to deal with meta. Ain't nobody knew Ultra's meta except Novas and I to some extent and see how he ended up. On the chopping block D1 lol(though, I guess a bus enforced that).

The most important thing about civilians in my book is that they need to function as a team. No individual player is ever going to solve the game on their own. That is literally impossible. It requires a full team effort, and part of that effort always involves townies who are able to show themselves to be town while working through their thoughts in the thread with other people. You did all of those things. The accuracy of reads in any given game is always going to be the key variable. Getting them wrong on one occasion doesn't mean poor play.

BUT if you do feel you didn't play your best game, I look forward to seeing what it looks like when you do feel you're at your best.

Wouldn't really say it's impossible as it's pretty much been done before from a game I played in but, yeah it's hard for a single civ to carry town.

Alright then, thank you. Thanks to all of you who came to my play's defense(though I still don't agree fully).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:46 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm I felt bad getting lynched D1 especially because I didn't give it my best effort - I could have saved my own ass but I wasn't in a great mood that day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing scum for me is very exhausting but also very rewarding so my performance really depends on my mindset.

But at least my interactions were obscure enough to lead to a couple of mislynches.

Continue to play with us! I look forward to seeing the civilian side of Ultra, for one thing.

Will do

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

Ok learn this one thing.

You suck at scumhunting.

I suck at scumhunting.

Everyone sucks at scumhunting.

This thing is not exact science. If it was no one would play mafia because it would be boring. All tells stop working the moment someone points them out, because mafia can adapt. WIFOM is everywhere. All methods are fallible.

The best town players don't make a 100% win chance, they just barely push it above 50%.

That doesn't mean you can never trust your instincts, but if winning as a team is hard, winning alone is nearly impossible. You will get some reads wrong every game, and you need other townies to help you find the right direction. Damn, people are praising me now and I voted for a townie last night.

So you need to learn to doubt yourself. Your instincts could be right, but they could be wrong. Learn to be aware of that at all times. Listen to other people. They may be onto something you're not. That doesn't mean you need to lose your initiative, but you need to learn to control it. Don't be a sheep, but don't be a blind wolf either.

For the record: I've played as much mafia with Mac as I have with anyone else on the internet, and I still have no idea how to read him. I usually just pretend and hope that I'm right.

[mention]Ultra[/mention], we have a few games in signup right now waiting on a few players to run. You should totally sign up if you have time and feel able, lots of people would love to play with you again.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 pm Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

That's definitely not the mistake you made.

The mistake you made was being overconfident on your baddie reads.

Lol, can't help it. Just what happens when I have a super strong scum read on someone and I haven't been convinced otherwise.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:49 pm For the record: I've played as much mafia with Mac as I have with anyone else on the internet, and I still have no idea how to read him. I usually just pretend and hope that I'm right.

me too.

except for when i accidentally bus him.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:46 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

While we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.

Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.

Have good instincts.
Be compelling in your cases.
Know when you drop a bad case and follow someone else.

I personally have always had number one but I only developed number two and three very recently.

The development of #3 was a pretty pivotal moment for me as a mafia player. I still need to remind myself at some point in every game that it's entirely possible I'm wrong about everything.

#juliets
#colonialbob

the north remembers.

Juliets does not count!

colonialbob is a definite black mark against me though. I still feel guilty any time I look at his avatar.

In another game Dragomir could have been right and DDL could have been wrong.

This was a hard mode game. I don't want to sound arrogant but how often do you have to contend with Jay, Mac and Nutella on the same team with a civilian team comprised 50% of people who don't know any of our meta? The fact that you made us sweat like you did was huge. I honestly thought we'd moonwalk through it.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

Believe it or not, what you saw in this game was about 60-70% of what you'd see from me in my civilian body. I feel that I have one of the most difficult civilian metas to match on the entire Internet, and for that reason I often don't even try -- I do enough to stay alive.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

This is where meta reading is handy. To an unfamiliar observer, he looks like the town leader. To folks who've played with him before, his play was shortsighted and erratic. He ignored things he wouldn't ordinarily ignore and focused on things he would not normally care about.

Pretty interesting. I'm definitely gonna play more games on this site.

You should. In my first year here I lost 7 consecutive games as town.

That was when I realized being good at NF means shit and I had to work harder to improve.

Damn, and I thought NF was a good place to improve.

Best Mafioso Team socky is going to be a bloodbath.

Yes, I am absolutely plugging my own team.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:49 pm @Ultra, we have a few games in signup right now waiting on a few players to run. You should totally sign up if you have time and feel able, lots of people would love to play with you again.

Got anything starting soon? My chaps game is in 2 weeks.

Oh I see, I'll check it out

I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:46 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm I felt bad getting lynched D1 especially because I didn't give it my best effort - I could have saved my own ass but I wasn't in a great mood that day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing scum for me is very exhausting but also very rewarding so my performance really depends on my mindset.

But at least my interactions were obscure enough to lead to a couple of mislynches.

Continue to play with us! I look forward to seeing the civilian side of Ultra, for one thing.

It's a great side. He singlehandedly almost carried town to victory. Only thing that stopped one was getting day killed D2.

Thanks and kudos are also in order for [mention]M Plus 7[/mention]. It's unfortunate that real life prevented him from really taking part in this game, but I doubt it would have even gotten off the ground without his work behind the scenes.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

While we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.

Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.

Have good instincts.
Be compelling in your cases.
Know when you drop a bad case and follow someone else.

I personally have always had number one but I only developed number two and three very recently.

I developed 3 first and I think recently I've been developing 1.

Only 2 left I guess.