The Syndicate

The fact that I did not achieve my win condition means I’ll need to sign up for more games in order to be eligible for next year’s GoC.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:30 pm (My win condition was for one of Long Con or Michelle to survive)

Oh, rough that Michelle died so early we strongmanned her lol

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:31 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:28 pm Also, I almost killed leetic a few nights ago but swapped to Long Con instead
Interesting how that mightve turned out

I self-protected N5, so it wouldn't have mattered.

Just as well, then xD

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:31 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:26 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:24 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:23 pm Also, I attempted to kill WWA N6 lol. LC was my N2 target

Why didn't I die? Kill bounced off me?

I have no clue. If nutella tried to redirect it, that would be the answer.

She won something in one of the night poll events; it gave her a 50% survival chance if NKed, and she won the roll.

Oh, it actually worked

Ricochet wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:31 pm Nah, iz fine.

GGs all around.

Congrats, leetic! Well earned, take joy in it.

Amazing performance, WWA, thanks for playing to bring it for us, against literally all odds, till the very last minute. I heavily enjoyed the teamwork, Arbiters were respected and respectable throughout and I take some final pride in that alone.

Thank you hosts for the game, real shame about the game proving a soft lock for wolves, but I'm certain you've tried your best and weathered the worst.

It was a pleasure wolfing with you! We had a great team

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:33 pm The fact that I did not achieve my win condition means I’ll need to sign up for more games in order to be eligible for next year’s GoC.

Same for me, and looking forward to the next game here! Everyone here was formidable and worked hard toward their wincons (and if I ever said otherwise, it's because I was a wolf lol, I appreciate all of you even if I had to push you or thought you were a landlord)

And thanks hosts for an awesome game!

This game was a joy to host; everyone was respectful and a lot of fun behind the scenes as well as in the thread.

We had great players, and that more than the set up is what makes a great game!

Mafia chats:

Arbiters of the Rose Empire > https://discord.gg/BE4unyBx
Landlords > https://discord.gg/WrkyawSj

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:39 pm This game was a joy to host; everyone was respectful and a lot of fun behind the scenes as well as in the thread.

We had great players, and that more than the set up is what makes a great game!

I second this- what made this a strong game was a strong group of players running it

@leetic here is your Winner banner as provided by the amazingly talented @Long Con. Wear it proudly!


All pertinent channels in the main HUB should reveal each player’s role, if you are curious.
Not included:

NANOOK: RondoDimBuckle:
Edit: Additionally everyone should be able to view the East/West facility. Please let me know if you cannot

Notes:
-please let me know if there are any particular questions on any happenings of the game. The night actions, events, and other minutia we have in gigantic threads in a private forum lol. It’s a lot of info. But we ain’t hiding shit.

-events in play were sometimes cool, sometimes a bust. Miraculously, only two people in the entire game utilized the breath event on D2: WWA and Rico.
People just stopped responding to the Vocaroo event, which blows my mind, because the inference was free vig shots. I had 2 more ready to go, but people stopped guessing after the 4th was posted.

-in general, the events were a bit swingy but not overpowered. If you participated, you probably got an advantage (except poor Scrappy). A lot of people just….didnt.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 8:31 pm Nah, iz fine.

GGs all around.

Congrats, leetic! Well earned, take joy in it.

Amazing performance, WWA, thanks for playing to bring it for us, against literally all odds, till the very last minute. I heavily enjoyed the teamwork, Arbiters were respected and respectable throughout and I take some final pride in that alone.

Thank you hosts for the game, real shame about the game proving a soft lock for wolves, but I'm certain you've tried your best and weathered the worst.

-this is an unfortunate aspect, and one we didn’t fully anticipate. In our balance, we structured it to be mostly symmetrical, but not entirely. We contemplated having a 3 person and a 4 person mafia, and making them more powerful. While we added a 3rd indie just to create more asymmetry, because the 3rd indie, leetic, was never revealed, everything up to that point looked perfectly even. So hindsight, it was all guesswork based on assumptions that the group started down the road of shoring up East/west. It also didn’t help Wilgy/windward that leetic was leading that charge, but he was with his own agenda.

-leetic’s entire game had a hilariously abysmal aspect for him. I mean, if he weren’t submitting actions, it almost wouldn’t have mattered. Literally all game,
-failed parity N1
-popped LC’s vest N2, had no idea (this was the ONLY action that technically made a difference)
-failed parity N3
-killed dizzy (duplicate kill) n4
-missed nook with a free vig shot d5
-self protected n5 (no one targeted him)
-shot WWA n6 (she was protected)
-parity cop WWA (success, but didn’t really matter)
-killed epi (duplicate kill) n8

^SK is a hard role, and Leetic expertly maneuvered not being too towny or too wolfy. So many times he could have been shot, but he just wasn’t.
-if WWA had shot leetic last night instead of Epi, she would have been in an F2 with Delta, and town would have WON. This is because Alison, who died very early in the game, was the tie breaker role. She ordered everyone by alphabetical order, EXCEPT WWA and Princess Abigail were at the top of the list of suspicions, so if WWA was ever in a tie breaker situation, she was doomed.
-Day 8’s yeet of Wilgy was the turning point for town. If they had yeeted one of leetic or WWA, this game would have mostly been more manageable
-unfortunately I hate kingmaking scenarios but because of the SK in play, poor delta needed to be around to assist. I’m sorry to make you endure the past 48 hours
-this game made my brain hurt
-cape’s presence had a chance to sew resounding chaos- he missed all the kills he could have gotten, and we only had one bus drive that sort of mattered. There was a time in D2 where sloonei and DM switched, which would have made Epi get shot during D2 if Abbi targeted DM with her vig shot

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:04 pm @leetic here is your Winner banner as provided by the amazingly talented @Long Con. Wear it proudly!

That's fucked up.

Very well played game all around! I had fun watching.

Sims Mafia needs more players: viewtopic.php?p=1110706

Now you must all pay homage to leetic's glorious victory by signing up for his Heist.

I am sorry for what I did to pyxxy

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:42 pm -events in play were sometimes cool, sometimes a bust. Miraculously, only two people in the entire game utilized the breath event on D2: WWA and Rico.
People just stopped responding to the Vocaroo event, which blows my mind, because the inference was free vig shots. I had 2 more ready to go, but people stopped guessing after the 4th was posted.

I took (and, in the spirit of debate, still take) issue with that whole event -- whilst admittedly hypocritical, since at first I did cheer at my own team benefitting from a successful roll:
- handing out not one, but six vig shots, is bit much for a gamestate that featured variation in prizes, as well as instilled a normal flow of proper mafia-playing; nanookian-styled shootout / bloodbath chaos is better dealt earlier than later;
- the fail-odds / gamble factor was far less nuanced, balanced than previous events (the gallery biddings), d2 or d3 rolls were relatively high odds for deaths going through: nutella received a flip coin just for saying something in a microphone; feels bad
- spectators being involved, feels bad; spectators should do just that, spectate; the example is entirely contextual, but it was a pain to lose a teammate because JJJ got up from a chair, daydreaming if eating peanuts is deterministic, flipped a coin and enabled nutella's kill
- in the context of D5 having put in perspective the soft-lock issue, six vig shots made it even more egregious; it matters less that only 4 shots were offered and only 2 worked, the full scope was for 6 out of 7-8 Easterners to be targeted for execution (instead of hunted via proper mafia), 4 cornered wolves among them - and I think it was proven right that nobody considered Westerners for flips at all (not even Windward, though it would have been more advantageous for her to start cleaning up on West aisle)

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:42 pm -this is an unfortunate aspect, and one we didn’t fully anticipate. In our balance, we structured it to be mostly symmetrical, but not entirely. We contemplated having a 3 person and a 4 person mafia, and making them more powerful. While we added a 3rd indie just to create more asymmetry, because the 3rd indie, leetic, was never revealed, everything up to that point looked perfectly even. So hindsight, it was all guesswork based on assumptions that the group started down the road of shoring up East/west. It also didn’t help Wilgy/windward that leetic was leading that charge, but he was with his own agenda.

I believe symmetrizing and balancing proved the paradox and broken factor in itself. Severance factioning + multiball simply does not / did not work.

It is common sense to expect gamemakers to seek ideal-as-possible balance, doubly so given such distinguished and experienced gamemakers, triply so given a Champs game. Hence, after sufficient flips (unfortunately my own), common sense started dictating that, in very high likelihood, the camps were split. I myself would have preached this solve as town, just like I vented in light of it as wolf in dead chat. Half of Delta’s final solve was just that.

And I believe the record will reflect, despite game reaching f3, wolves surviving very last on the PoE board, and some doubt creeping in (Epignosis’ “play against hosts” argument), that Westerners were no longer hunted and lynched for the entire second half.

This obviously benefitted the rogue killer. And created a grueling ask of wolves to endure, clean up via kills and outlast.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:42 pm -if WWA had shot leetic last night instead of Epi, she would have been in an F2 with Delta, and town would have WON. This is because Alison, who died very early in the game, was the tie breaker role. She ordered everyone by alphabetical order, EXCEPT WWA and Princess Abigail were at the top of the list of suspicions, so if WWA was ever in a tie breaker situation, she was doomed.

I don’t recall Alison's role, but isn't this contradicting the wolves' entire win con? Traditionally, if F2 is wolf/town, wolf has "achieved parity" and the last town is no longer "a threat".

==

I write all of this with due courtesy. We can go private with it, if it’s preferable, though I don’t have much else to inquire and seek to move on. Again, I’m sure it’s an inadvertent flaw, still it was regrettable and frustrating to witness half the team being cornered and half of town receiving no more pressure.

Yay I went to bed feeling so happy about the way this went, I just loved waking up to this.

The spectators voted on what art went into the banner, too. It was *fun*, which is kind of the point of playing games.

Sorry you weren't happy with how it ended or how we chose to handle things. Next time take it private from the beginning. If you have anything to add to this please take it to Discord or PM us. Thank You.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:06 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:42 pm -if WWA had shot leetic last night instead of Epi, she would have been in an F2 with Delta, and town would have WON. This is because Alison, who died very early in the game, was the tie breaker role. She ordered everyone by alphabetical order, EXCEPT WWA and Princess Abigail were at the top of the list of suspicions, so if WWA was ever in a tie breaker situation, she was doomed.

I don’t recall Alison's role, but isn't this contradicting the wolves' entire win con? Traditionally, if F2 is wolf/town, wolf has "achieved parity" and the last town is no longer "a threat".

I will respond to this- you are absolutely correct, and I misspoke in my summation. WWA would have won if she shot leetic with Leetic shooting Epi. Town was only winning after that night if WWA and leetic had shot each other.

Congrats Leetic, and well played everyone!!!

Thank you for the game @S~V~S and @Scotty !!!

Great game and very well played by leetic! Even though I did say we should vote them off, big bummer that I've gotta go win a game this year now though.

I see all above discussion and here's my counterargument:

GoC is meant to celebrate the previous year's games, and it's meant to be fun and competitive.. This one did all of that. The roles and events creatively pulled form 2023's list of games, none of the mechanics were broken or bastard, and there was a lot of good team and individual play from the players. It was fun, it was competitive, it came down to the wire, there was no toxicity or unpleasantness, and the hosts were communicative and immaculate in their preparation, organisation and running of the whole event.

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Also: there is pretty much no such thing as 'balance' in a role madness game. They are, by definition, swingy.

So like...you can criticise individual mechanics if you want, but you can do that with pretty much every big setup as well. IMO as long as at the end of the day the overall game gave all teams a fair shot, then the game was balanced. This one literally came down to three factions in the final three. You can't get much closer than that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:10 pm I see all above discussion and here's my counterargument:

GoC is meant to celebrate the previous year's games, and it's meant to be fun and competitive.. This one did all of that. The roles and events creatively pulled form 2023's list of games, none of the mechanics were broken or bastard, and there was a lot of good team and individual play from the players. It was fun, it was competitive, it came down to the wire, there was no toxicity or unpleasantness, and the hosts were communicative and immaculate in their preparation, organisation and running of the whole event.

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

this!!

I don't really take issue with 6 potential vig shots as they had a low chance of hitting. It's just that Nutella and I both got lucky with ours, and leetic did not. Plus, since anyone could participate, it was kind of up to the wolfteams and town how much they wanted to try winning the vig shots. One SK, one town and one wolf winning the shots is pretty funny, actually.

I do agree that I was PoE'd because of balance mech, but I did try to use exactly that argument to get myself out of it, so I can't really say it was unfair. It almost worked, too. And also things mightve ended differently if I'd remembered to vote leetic in the poll (I legit forgot to do it), but tbh I think they earned their win, fair and square, and against all odds. They probably had the toughest role in the game to maneuver (and probably the other 3ps had the next hardest wincon).

I was genuinely trying to solve for the landlord team and any potential serial killers, but I did also have to push agenda on top of that. My early game was true scumhunting, contrary to what it may have seemed, and my late game was much more agenda'd after Rico and Lemon flipped, and I knew I had to identify the landlord but avoid flipping them until Fx.

Overall, I had a lot of fun, and the playerlist was awesome! Hosts did a phenomenal job with the roles, mechanics, events, etc.

GOC and an indy win, name a more iconic duo

leetic's glory and the hosts' brilliant efforts have been recorded forevermore in the Hall of Fame.

Thanks Jay! I think you can archive the thread whenever you want.

I’m used to checking it constantly ha ha ha. If it’s not here I’ll break that habit and I checked with Scotty and he’s cool with archiving

I enjoyed this so much, if I can drag Juliets out of retirement I might consider hosting again.