Magic the Gathering Mafia - Game Over - Mafia has won!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Honestly, I think Punish the Fool was poorly considered. Not in terms of costs and damage but in its existence at all.

I was normally a weakened version of a roleblocker, a medium strength town role. Specifically, the roleblocker has the low chance to block a mafia kill, saving a townie and catching a wolf. This part of the power was removed, making my role weak to the point of actually being antitown. Without the chance to block a kill, I deemed the chance of blocking a more useful town ability higher than the ability to meaningfully disrupt scum on most nights.

Now, in order to move my ability from antitown to medium strength town, I had to

1) Out my ability, giving the mafia a roadmap and leading to a higher chance of disruption via mafia night action and

2) One or more likely two townies had to sacrifice their night actions by giving me mana.

Perhaps more important than those downsides, upgrading my ability requires the town to coordinate night actions in a way that is unrealistic. In spite of my D1 claim and being widely townread, it’s my understanding that I never received mana from a townie all game. I personally missed the mid day mana giving deadline (midday deadlines being not a thing in 99% of mafia games) multiple times.

Punish the Fool seems to be a mechanic similar to soupkill or anticlaim, ie giving the wolf team a massive bonus in extra kills in order to counter and discourage a game breakingly powerful town strategy of roleclaiming, generally in games with open setups or restricted themes. However, it was instead used to counter a difficult to coordinate mechanic that already requires significant sacrifice.

This town was mechanically weak without PtF. With it, I’d wager that most of the mechanics in this game were not used at all because there was such a strong disincentive for townies to give each other mana.

[Jackofhearts2005]

This is not to pile onto Tutuu or make her feel bad but rather to underline that when designing a setup, we should consider the reason powerful mechanics are used and see if they apply and try to predict what your setup will motivate players to do.

[tutuu]

Honestly, I think Punish the Fool was poorly considered. Not in terms of costs and damage but in its existence at all.

I was normally a weakened version of a roleblocker, a medium strength town role. Specifically, the roleblocker has the low chance to block a mafia kill, saving a townie and catching a wolf. This part of the power was removed, making my role weak to the point of actually being antitown. Without the chance to block a kill, I deemed the chance of blocking a more useful town ability higher than the ability to meaningfully disrupt scum on most nights.

Now, in order to move my ability from antitown to medium strength town, I had to

1) Out my ability, giving the mafia a roadmap and leading to a higher chance of disruption via mafia night action and

2) One or more likely two townies had to sacrifice their night actions by giving me mana.

Perhaps more important than those downsides, upgrading my ability requires the town to coordinate night actions in a way that is unrealistic. In spite of my D1 claim and being widely townread, it’s my understanding that I never received mana from a townie all game. I personally missed the mid day mana giving deadline (midday deadlines being not a thing in 99% of mafia games) multiple times.

Punish the Fool seems to be a mechanic similar to soupkill or anticlaim, ie giving the wolf team a massive bonus in extra kills in order to counter and discourage a game breakingly powerful town strategy of roleclaiming, generally in games with open setups or restricted themes. However, it was instead used to counter a difficult to coordinate mechanic that already requires significant sacrifice.

This town was mechanically weak without PtF. With it, I’d wager that most of the mechanics in this game were not used at all because there was such a strong disincentive for townies to give each other mana.

i disagree with mostly everything here

i dont think that you can say that the mafia non-damaging actions which we got to see in action (interacting with the chopping poll) were way too anti-town, and also say that your ability to block non-damaging actions was anti-town

these two seem to contradict each other, dont they?

i dont think that using the unkicked power of your role was antitown. there were no investigative roles as written in the OP, the most anti town thing you could have done was block one of the two protectives. blocking wilgy and made's roles weren't that impactful, they were VT-esque. all 4 of the mafia members had non-damaging anti-town abilities

you didnt need to out your ability. you needed 2 blue and 3 generic to activate it. you could generate 2 blue and 1 colorless by yourself. you could ask for 2 of any color, at most you could claim that you were centered around blue mana if you wanted to but i dont think you needed to claim anything about your color or ability. urist sent you a blue mana on day 1

there were only 3 townies who had to sacrifice their ability in order to give away mana - urist, guillotine and made. their abilities costed 3. your role, kyle's, hollowkatt's, falcon's, mac's, ted's roles - all of those used 2 mana for their basic ability, and were incentivized to give one of their spare mana away every day, unless they think that they will receive something. marmot and epi were masons with purposely very weak artifacts and were also incentivized to give away mana or use it on one of their abilities. 112's role couldnt activate her ability on her own so similarly she was incentivized to either give it away or try to obtain.

without PTF i think that the game was breakable because people could split the game in two parts - one scummy and one towny part, and force all players from the scummy part to give their mana to the players in the towny part. and then everyone would claim it, and people would keep records of it, and, idk. in the early game maybe it wouldn't have been that breakable but at the mid-late game if there were 1-2 wolves they would have been mech outed easily i think due to being forced to give away mana

i agree that the way it is now was too punishing for town and they couldnt coordinate enough even if they wanted to

i disagree that without it the town was mechanically weak

[Jackofhearts2005]

Having a nonkill roleblocker does not balance the mafia’s ability to essentially make a mafia yeet impossible if it isn’t blocked. It’s not reasonable for a townie to expect that “things I can roleblock” includes a mafia ability to essentially burn a day phase.

No, I didn’t need to put my ability. Yes, I needed to put that my ability is worth sacrificing your (to a townie) ability to use.

Balancing your game on the idea that the town could successfully bully all players into doing X is unrealistic. Even if the town had done exactly that,the only thing that results in is....a normal role madness town that doesn’t even have investigative powers.

I fail to see how that qualifies as “broken in favor of the town.”

[tutuu]

i dont think it would have been bullying players into doing X, i think people would just try to solve the game the most optimal way they can

it would have been broken because the mafia would be robbed out of their night kill every night because it costs mana

i wanted to give mafia options so i made their NK cost mana. if it didnt cost mana, and more abilities didnt give feedback / weren't confirmable perhaps PTF wouldnt have been needed

[tutuu]

It’s not reasonable for a townie to expect that “things I can roleblock” includes a mafia ability to essentially burn a day phase.

i probably could have done a better job at communicating in the OP that the game has a ton of non-standard mechanics, but, i thought that the player who randed your role would target his scumreads every night. i wouldnt make a role that incentivizes its owner to holster it if they wanna play optimally

[Jackofhearts2005]

The idea that I one time received 1/3rd of the required mana to upgrade my ability or that there were several townies with the ability to band together in trips to upgrade a single town ability does not disprove my point.

I gained twice as much mana from wolves as from townies, from which the idea that I should have found wolves based on who gave mana does not follow.

And again, this is coming from the pov of a townie that said prior to any night phase “my power is more useful if I get mana from other people.” And I was widely townread.

I’m not sure if I didn’t get mana because people missed the uncommon day deadline or they feared punish the fool or gave elsewhere or didn’t trust me. I think all of those things factored into townies not having a lot of night power.

And the town not having a bunch of night power isn’t an issue. I just think it doesn’t deserve multiple extra wolf kills to balance it’s strength.

[tutuu]

The idea that I one time received 1/3rd of the required mana to upgrade my ability or that there were several townies with the ability to band together in trips to upgrade a single town ability does not disprove my point.

I gained twice as much mana from wolves as from townies, from which the idea that I should have found wolves based on who gave mana does not follow.

And again, this is coming from the pov of a townie that said prior to any night phase “my power is more useful if I get mana from other people.” And I was widely townread.

I’m not sure if I didn’t get mana because people missed the uncommon day deadline or they feared punish the fool or gave elsewhere or didn’t trust me. I think all of those things factored into townies not having a lot of night power.

And the town not having a bunch of night power isn’t an issue. I just think it doesn’t deserve multiple extra wolf kills to balance it’s strength.

1/2nd (you needed 2 mana to upgrade it)

i think that a lot of people missed deadline because there was an information overload, punish the fool was way too powerful too. scum had the advantage of having 4 people who could submit each other's mana, so 4 times the chance to not miss the deadline. on day 1 they all didnt submit it optimally aswell, they were too overwhelmed and just self targeted

i think that, once again, my mistakes was the reverse chop on day 3, and punishing town from trying to teamplay. the game was really complex and i didnt communicate how non-standard it was. (the post i wrote right after the game ended)

i disagree that mafia being given extra KP was inbalanced in this particular game since it was all publicly announced

the Marks - they were publicly announced. JPIC gaining 5 dmg if he wins a duel - he had to win the duel first. the 3 dmg from dunya's / tsp's role - they had to neighborize a person

locking town people out of voting was annoying - i get that, and i will hesitate before implementing it again, but:

town was in control of the day 4 chop (it was 2 townies and 1 scum deciding the vote between 1 town and 1 scum). town knew that they would lose if they chopped urist and jpic was mafia. it was telegraphed. i dont think the mafia kill power was the issue in this game

i do believe that day 4 was basically f3 lylo, and town had great odds if jpic was chopped

[Jackofhearts2005]

It’s not reasonable for a townie to expect that “things I can roleblock” includes a mafia ability to essentially burn a day phase.

i probably could have done a better job at communicating in the OP that the game has a ton of non-standard mechanics, but, i thought that the player who randed your role would target his scumreads every night. i wouldnt make a role that incentivizes its owner to holster it if they wanna play optimally

I do think this comes back to assumptions about roles. Town disruptives are more likely to hit townies than wolves based on pure chance.

So it’s like what is the detriment of blocking a town cop or doc vs blocking a wolf block or a wolf kill.

In a 70 player mash, you assume extra shitty wolf abilities like vigilantes or poisoning to exist so that motivates you to use the ability. If the host says there are no investigative roles, that motivates you to use the ability. If the ability flat can’t block wolf kills, that motivates you not to. Same for a smaller game where you don’t expect super strong wolf abilities like day skips.

Generally, that reverse chop just shouldn’t have been in the game so it’s not reasonable for me to be more willing to use a block for fear of a wolf power like that.

That said, knowing your host style better would have made me more likely to use it and I decided to use it later in the game because the random chance of targeting a wolf on N4 is higher than N1.

[tutuu]

wolves didnt give you mana afaik

[Jackofhearts2005]

Publicly announcing a thing doesn’t make it necessarily balanced. It’s a good step a lot of the time but a public imbalanced setup is still imbalanced.

[Jackofhearts2005]

wolves didnt give you mana afaik

It was my understanding that I received mana from LC and Urist on D1 but not enough to kick on N1. I could be wrong on all of that.

[tutuu]

wolves didnt give you mana afaik

It was my understanding that I received mana from LC and Urist on D1 but not enough to kick on N1. I could be wrong on all of that.

wolves gave mana only to themselves all game afaik. only urist gave u 1 mana d1. u generate 3 mana per day, u targeted urself, on n1 u had 4 mana total, u needed 1 more to kick

[tutuu]

Publicly announcing a thing doesn’t make it necessarily balanced. It’s a good step a lot of the time but a public imbalanced setup is still imbalanced.

i dont think that the marking role was imbalanced, feel free to disagree and be adamant about it if you want but i dont think its imbalanced

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think it was less information overload and more unconventional mechanic.

As a player, I expect to place a vote during the day and submit an action during the night.

The vast majority of day powers I’ve received are high impact. Itas. Day vigilante. Suicide bomber. Poison healer. It’s easy to remember to use these day abilities by the end of the day.

The ability to give someone currency that maybe let’s them do a thing I am not sure if it exists? By party way through the day?

I’m much more likely to not use that.

I think that’s very much a live and learn kinda lesson as new mechanics often have unpredicted outcomes.

Like I sympathize with the mod that comes up with this intricate system of mana giving and the ins and outs of this thematic thing and then players just forget to submit the deadline. I’ve totes designed mechanics like that only to facepalm later.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The worst was me designing a mechanic that I didn’t predict would strongly disincentivize posting at all.

Ultimately, that made the rest of the (painstakingly and lovingly crafted and balanced) mechanics moot.

[MacDougall]

Honestly, I think Punish the Fool was poorly considered. Not in terms of costs and damage but in its existence at all.

I was normally a weakened version of a roleblocker, a medium strength town role. Specifically, the roleblocker has the low chance to block a mafia kill, saving a townie and catching a wolf. This part of the power was removed, making my role weak to the point of actually being antitown. Without the chance to block a kill, I deemed the chance of blocking a more useful town ability higher than the ability to meaningfully disrupt scum on most nights.

Now, in order to move my ability from antitown to medium strength town, I had to

1) Out my ability, giving the mafia a roadmap and leading to a higher chance of disruption via mafia night action and

2) One or more likely two townies had to sacrifice their night actions by giving me mana.

Perhaps more important than those downsides, upgrading my ability requires the town to coordinate night actions in a way that is unrealistic. In spite of my D1 claim and being widely townread, it’s my understanding that I never received mana from a townie all game. I personally missed the mid day mana giving deadline (midday deadlines being not a thing in 99% of mafia games) multiple times.

Punish the Fool seems to be a mechanic similar to soupkill or anticlaim, ie giving the wolf team a massive bonus in extra kills in order to counter and discourage a game breakingly powerful town strategy of roleclaiming, generally in games with open setups or restricted themes. However, it was instead used to counter a difficult to coordinate mechanic that already requires significant sacrifice.

This town was mechanically weak without PtF. With it, I’d wager that most of the mechanics in this game were not used at all because there was such a strong disincentive for townies to give each other mana.

i disagree with mostly everything here

i dont think that you can say that the mafia non-damaging actions which we got to see in action (interacting with the chopping poll) were way too anti-town, and also say that your ability to block non-damaging actions was anti-town

these two seem to contradict each other, dont they?

i dont think that using the unkicked power of your role was antitown. there were no investigative roles as written in the OP, the most anti town thing you could have done was block one of the two protectives. blocking wilgy and made's roles weren't that impactful, they were VT-esque. all 4 of the mafia members had non-damaging anti-town abilities

you didnt need to out your ability. you needed 2 blue and 3 generic to activate it. you could generate 2 blue and 1 colorless by yourself. you could ask for 2 of any color, at most you could claim that you were centered around blue mana if you wanted to but i dont think you needed to claim anything about your color or ability. urist sent you a blue mana on day 1

there were only 3 townies who had to sacrifice their ability in order to give away mana - urist, guillotine and made. their abilities costed 3. your role, kyle's, hollowkatt's, falcon's, mac's, ted's roles - all of those used 2 mana for their basic ability, and were incentivized to give one of their spare mana away every day, unless they think that they will receive something. marmot and epi were masons with purposely very weak artifacts and were also incentivized to give away mana or use it on one of their abilities. 112's role couldnt activate her ability on her own so similarly she was incentivized to either give it away or try to obtain.

without PTF i think that the game was breakable because people could split the game in two parts - one scummy and one towny part, and force all players from the scummy part to give their mana to the players in the towny part. and then everyone would claim it, and people would keep records of it, and, idk. in the early game maybe it wouldn't have been that breakable but at the mid-late game if there were 1-2 wolves they would have been mech outed easily i think due to being forced to give away mana

i agree that the way it is now was too punishing for town and they couldnt coordinate enough even if they wanted to

i disagree that without it the town was mechanically weak

My base role required all my mana

[Urist]

I think the only strong mechanically strong mafia ability was jpic's "treacherous duel" ability or whatever it was called, which allowed him to also eliminate his opponent if he was executed.
I think everything else was mechanically null, town just had to work around it. If anything the abilities were inversely proportional to town's competence - that's probably why they seemed so broken this game. I think that's the mark of good design though... if we played well then the abilities would not have been effective at all. Town just refused to coordinate and come up with solid plans to deal with these mechanics.

[Justplayingitcool]

The idea that I one time received 1/3rd of the required mana to upgrade my ability or that there were several townies with the ability to band together in trips to upgrade a single town ability does not disprove my point.

I gained twice as much mana from wolves as from townies, from which the idea that I should have found wolves based on who gave mana does not follow.

And again, this is coming from the pov of a townie that said prior to any night phase “my power is more useful if I get mana from other people.” And I was widely townread.

I’m not sure if I didn’t get mana because people missed the uncommon day deadline or they feared punish the fool or gave elsewhere or didn’t trust me. I think all of those things factored into townies not having a lot of night power.

And the town not having a bunch of night power isn’t an issue. I just think it doesn’t deserve multiple extra wolf kills to balance it’s strength.

i do believe that day 4 was basically f3 lylo, and town had great odds if jpic was chopped

I dunno.

I think even if I lost the duel, mafia still had really good odds because of the dishonorouble duel. 6 VS 3 and with no roles that could mess with us, we only really need another misyeet if maths is correct

[tutuu]

My base role required all my mana

it required 1 red and 1 blue, your base mana was 1 red 1 blue and 1 colorless

[tutuu]

required 1 blue and 1 generic*

[MacDougall]

i misread it

[Alison]

I agree. As soon as I realized it, I lost WIM and left.

rage quitting a game because you believe the setup is scumsided is poor form imo

[DrWilgy]

Lol, remember when I redchecked Dunya? Good times. Good times.

[DrWilgy]

I didn't have enough time while this game was going on lol. I was able to read like a quarter of the posts. I still had fun thoptering people. Thank you for the game Spinning Anime Girl <3

[Guillotine]

I agree. As soon as I realized it, I lost WIM and left.

rage quitting a game because you believe the setup is scumsided is poor form imo

I don't regret it and would do it again. You cannot force to play a game I no longer wanna play.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've updated the site Hall of Fame for this game's results.

[dunya]

ayy missed out on the win rate

thanks for subbing in, Tony!

and great team we had! mafia sweep woop!

thanks tutuu, i look forward to fallout 3.

[dunya]

I agree. As soon as I realized it, I lost WIM and left.

rage quitting a game because you believe the setup is scumsided is poor form imo

I don't regret it and would do it again. You cannot force to play a game I no longer wanna play.

true that! you're always welcome to sub out of a game, no questions asked.

however, announcing your reason was because you felt the game was imbalanced isn't fair to the host (or your team) especially since you subbed out before knowing the full setup! sometimes games feel imbalanced, but don't judge till you know the ins and outs of behind the scenes.

[Justplayingitcool]

Damn, Dunya deserved the win as much as everybody else on our team!

[Long Con]

Damn, Dunya deserved the win as much as everybody else on our team!

Absolutely key.

[Guillotine]

I agree. As soon as I realized it, I lost WIM and left.

rage quitting a game because you believe the setup is scumsided is poor form imo

I don't regret it and would do it again. You cannot force to play a game I no longer wanna play.

true that! you're always welcome to sub out of a game, no questions asked.

however, announcing your reason was because you felt the game was imbalanced isn't fair to the host (or your team) especially since you subbed out before knowing the full setup! sometimes games feel imbalanced, but don't judge till you know the ins and outs of behind the scenes.

I subbed out because i thought the game was imbalanced and when the game ended i realized i was right. We didnt have a chance at winning this. Of course this is my personal opinion about the game and in no way it should mirror the opinions of others but i didnt tell tutuu the reason why i subbed out until i said so here when the game ended.

[tutuu]

town could have won if they played good as opposed to playing bad like they did

[tutuu]

for day 3 - if everyone agreed on a name - lets say X to get chopped, everyone could have voted alphabetically for the person below their name except X. this guarantees X to get chopped because they can't self-vote or interfere in any way. it was way too annoying for town but technically the D3 chop was in town's control as long as they put a lot of effort to work as a team

the chop on D4 was also in town's hands. it was 2 towns and 1 mafia deciding the chop. town was in control and they mischopped

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I think subbing out because you don't like the setup on d3 or whatever is uh

Pretty crappy and should be actively discouraged

Ymmv

[Justplayingitcool]

town could have won if they played good as opposed to playing bad like they did

Even if the town were good, the mafia would still have wiped the floor because we were such a great team

[Long Con]

town could have won if they played good as opposed to playing bad like they did

Even if the town were good, the mafia would still have wiped the floor because we were such a great team

Yeah, the town would have had to be damn near perfect, and that isn't due to the game's mechanics.

[Jackofhearts2005]

for day 3 - if everyone agreed on a name - lets say X to get chopped, everyone could have voted alphabetically for the person below their name except X. this guarantees X to get chopped because they can't self-vote or interfere in any way. it was way too annoying for town but technically the D3 chop was in town's control as long as they put a lot of effort to work as a team

the chop on D4 was also in town's hands. it was 2 towns and 1 mafia deciding the chop. town was in control and they mischopped

This plan fails if even 1 additional player doesn’t play along. There are multiple wolves in this setup and townie don’t agree on everything. Not to mention the time spent trying to essentially undo the rules of the game is time not spent doing anything to find the wolves.

Like...just because you came up with ideas to break your own mechanics doesn’t mean it’s reasonable for the town to have that same idea and for everyone to go along with it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think subbing out because you don't like the setup on d3 or whatever is uh

Pretty crappy and should be actively discouraged

Ymmv

But yeah, this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like if the wolves wanted, they yeet a townie on D3 100% of the time. There is no mathematical way for town to control the yeet under that rule set. Wolves could give the town the ability to yeet but ultimately, the wolves were in control.

2/3rds of the townies alive at endgame had no vote for half the game.

3/3rds of the townies had no ability to vote for their top suspect for half the game.

In mafia, wolves should control kills and townies should control yeets. In this game, wolves got to essentially control both. They were given extra kill power and were able to control who could and could not be yeeted from a mechanical perspective.

We could have flat caught 3/4ths of the mafia on Day 3 but as long as JPIC wasn’t caught, all of the mafia would have survived the game.

I’m sorry. This game was flat broken.

[tutuu]

for day 3 - if everyone agreed on a name - lets say X to get chopped, everyone could have voted alphabetically for the person below their name except X. this guarantees X to get chopped because they can't self-vote or interfere in any way. it was way too annoying for town but technically the D3 chop was in town's control as long as they put a lot of effort to work as a team

the chop on D4 was also in town's hands. it was 2 towns and 1 mafia deciding the chop. town was in control and they mischopped

This plan fails if even 1 additional player doesn’t play along. There are multiple wolves in this setup and townie don’t agree on everything. Not to mention the time spent trying to essentially undo the rules of the game is time not spent doing anything to find the wolves.

Like...just because you came up with ideas to break your own mechanics doesn’t mean it’s reasonable for the town to have that same idea and for everyone to go along with it.

just because i didnt leave enough room for error to the town it does not absolve the town of the fault that they misplayed and does not mean that im going to keep taking the blame and letting the losing team cope with the fact that they lost because they played worse by blaming the mechanics or the setups

town played worse and they lost. town's reads were not good at any stage of the game

the post that you're quoting to is clearly in response to the argument that "town never stood a chance"

even if the chop on d3 was robbed town has only themselves to blame for the mischop on days 1 2 and 4

im getting tired of people being sore losers. we clearly have different opinions on balance. singing up for my games is optional and u dont have to do it if u dont want to. im sorry for the black dot on your win record in the spreadsheet but im sure you'll live with it

[tutuu]

Like if the wolves wanted, they yeet a townie on D3 100% of the time. There is no mathematical way for town to control the yeet under that rule set. Wolves could give the town the ability to yeet but ultimately, the wolves were in control.

2/3rds of the townies alive at endgame had no vote for half the game.

3/3rds of the townies had no ability to vote for their top suspect for half the game.

In mafia, wolves should control kills and townies should control yeets. In this game, wolves got to essentially control both. They were given extra kill power and were able to control who could and could not be yeeted from a mechanical perspective.

We could have flat caught 3/4ths of the mafia on Day 3 but as long as JPIC wasn’t caught, all of the mafia would have survived the game.

I’m sorry. This game was flat broken.

as ive said, eveyone could agree on a person to get yeeted and that person would have been yeeted. town could yeet whoever they wanted to as long as they agree in advance

on day 4 multiple people couldnt vote but they could speak. they could have suggested to epi and hollowkatt to vote for their scumreads. the town was warned of the extra kill power had urist been chopped. town played flat out poor

[Jackofhearts2005]

I lose games all the damn time and I didn’t claim to have played a good game, here.

This is absolutely not about being a sore loser and I’m tired of perfectly legit criticism being handwaved by corner case technicalities and personal attacks.

[tutuu]

your criticism is not legit

wolves had no mechanical control over who gets chopped. town had.

town also had kill power

[tutuu]

i am aware and acknowledge the fact that it was too much / too annoying / not enough room for error, the way i made it, but thats clearly not what im arguing agaisnt

[Jackofhearts2005]

your criticism is not legit

wolves had no mechanical control over who gets chopped. town had.

town also had kill power

Your proposed plan only works if ALL players play along, even wolves.

I literally had no ability to effect the yeet as a townie for half the game.

That’s broken.

Town had to catch and all specifically agree on two wolves to yeet a wolf D3.

Town had to catch specifically JPIC and all agree on D4.

That’s broken.

I’m not upset I lost. I like being fooled. I have never once been mad at a wolf for tricking me. I probably have lost half of the town games I’ve played. Maybe more.

For you to dismiss criticism of this game by calling me a poor sport is bullshit and rude.

[tutuu]

Official VC 3.2:

(On the left = wagon. On the right = voters)

112 - 1 - Urist
DrWilgy - 0 -
TonyStarkPrime - 1 - Long Con
Enrique - 1 - hollowkatt
Epignosis - 2 - Guillotine, Justplayingitcool
falcon45ca - 1 - MacDougall
Guillotine - 1 - Epignosis
hollowkatt - 1 - falcon45ca
Jackofhearts2005 - 1 - Enrique
Justplayingitcool - 0 -
Long Con - 1 - TonyStarkPrime
MacDougall - 2 - DrWilgy, Jackofhearts2005
Urist - 1 - 112

Not voting - 0 -

Let me know if there are any mistakes


ISO Links:

Spoiler: show

tutuu

DrWilgy
dunya / TonyStarkPrime
Enrique
Epignosis
falcon45ca
Guillotine
Jackofhearts2005
Justplayingitcool
Kylemii
Long Con
MacDougall
Made
Marmot
Nicol Bolas / 112
hollowkatt
tedxtr
Poison / Urist

this is the wagon composition on day 3 (the reverse chop day)

I don't even have a fucking townread on Guillo.

That move was scummy af.

I hard town read the following:
Epi
TSP
Guillo
LC

Town read:
Mac
You (Jack)
Falcon
Enrique

Don't town read:
Urist
112
Wigly
JPIC

That's not the point, though.

The point is that if it's JPIC and Wilgy but not Enrique, that would have singlehandedly yeeted a townie and I don't see the townie motivation to make that move.

Now, if JPIC or Wilgy goes and flips town on us, it's NAI. So yeah, worrisome but we'll see.

this is your last post on day 3. its 40 minutes before eod

you had the power to choose who gets chopped between wilgy and jpic. you were online

there were no votes in between this last post of yours and eod

you could have chopped wilgy or you could have chopped jpic. you instead kept ur vote on mac who already had a vote and gave wolves the ability to decide who gets chopped between wilgy and jpic

how can u argue that i robbed u of the chance to vote man

why didnt u vote one of them d3? am i missing something?

[Jackofhearts2005]

If I had voted Wilgy, nothing stops LC from voting JPIC and yeeting Tony.

[tutuu]

your criticism is not legit

wolves had no mechanical control over who gets chopped. town had.

town also had kill power

Your proposed plan only works if ALL players play along, even wolves.

I literally had no ability to effect the yeet as a townie for half the game.

That’s broken.

Town had to catch and all specifically agree on two wolves to yeet a wolf D3.

Town had to catch specifically JPIC and all agree on D4.

That’s broken.

I’m not upset I lost. I like being fooled. I have never once been mad at a wolf for tricking me. I probably have lost half of the town games I’ve played. Maybe more.

For you to dismiss criticism of this game by calling me a poor sport is bullshit and rude.

if wolves didnt play along with the most pro-town plan you could have chopped them

you had the ability to affect the chop on d3, on d4 u had ur voice

the town had no just agree to chop a wolf on d3

town didnt have to catch specifically jpic. it was 2 townies and 1 mafia deciding the chop. then jpic made it 50/50 between himself and a town. "Town had to catch specifically JPIC and all agree on D4. - this line makes no sense

i dont think the setup was broken

[Jackofhearts2005]

If I had voted Wilgy, nothing stops LC from voting JPIC and yeeting Tony.

Except Tony was a wolf right? Lol