[Day 7]: Film Noir - Game Over

#351

I'm still a bit lost - does boo's death suggest that he was Bigelowe?
And could anyone summarize what was up with timmer?
I don't really understand the suspicion there, and I won't have time to reread the whole thread with full attention in the near future :-\

There seem to be a lot of informational roles this game, and I've never played with a 'lie detector' before -
are there any standard rules for what types of statements he/she can check?
After Llama's whole "you can't tell if I'm lying" argument in the other game, I suspect he'll be kind of literal about it.
Is there any reason we *shouldn't* just request that everyone state their civness?

If we can organize it, it'll go even better if we can get everyone to state something like:
"I am civ, and I don't know that X and Y are not civs."
(the people above and below them in the alphabetic list).
Then if the LD can catch someone he'll automatically get a bunch of extra information.
I mean, it seems like it abuses the role, but I *love* abusing a good role :-P

(I am civ, and I don't know that Turnip Head or Enigma Eve is not).

#352

I guess I should direct that last one to our hosts:

@hosts: are there limits to (a) the nature or (b) the complexity of statements Keyes can test?

#353

I am not surprised by this result, really. I expected one of two things; that boo would be nked cause i said i would NK him if i were bad OR that they would not, which would mean HE was bad himself. I am sorry he was killed this way. Also not surprised by Epis death, although, again, sorry it happened, and that i did not trust him earlier.

I will have more time tonight.

#354

Why do you think Boo was NK'd? Do you think it was Wilder?
I mean Kindler has *secrets*, so it could be, but I don't see how they would get two kills last night.
In fact, I don't see how they would have gotten *one*, unless the kill passes. Doesn't it usually say that when that's the case?
I mean, I guess it must have, for two deaths last night.
(That's why I was all congratulatory in my first post; I thought you had already eliminated the only nightly killer).

@llama - did the night kill pass now that Powell is dead?

#355

Nevinera wrote: @hosts: are there limits to (a) the nature or (b) the complexity of statements Keyes can test?

Keyes can *ask* to test any statement he wants. Whether or not the result is useful information is another matter entirely.

Nevinera wrote: @llama - did the night kill pass now that Powell is dead?

Yes.

#356

Ah well, after the deaths last night I guess that was expected.

I'm not sure what to make of the first response.
I can't tell if he's cautioning us to be careful with construction,
or that he's not going to let me turn the game into a complex logic problem :-\

I guess it would only matter if we knew and could protect the LD anyway.

#357

Why I oughta...

#358

Hey all, so reading back, I think I trust Hedge and would like to hear her thoughts on the gsme.

#359

Rest in peace Epignosis, you crazy sonuvabitch. And rest in peace, boo. I'll miss your take on the game

Welcome Nevinera! I like your plan to help the LD but I'm not sure that your proposed statements are checkable. I have no way of being sure of this, because the hosts won't give us a clear answer. I don't mind doing it but I have a feeling it won't be allowed because it directly reveals alignment. There are also ways I can see where the information gleaned from your proposed statements might not be entirely helpful for the LD anyway.

I have no idea what to make of timmer now. My theory that he slipped up is largely invalidated if his explanation for why he did so is true. I just... I mean his story is so bizarre. Skimming the thread and missing a post or two is one thing, but missing entire chunks of important game content is another thing entirely. Especially when he was able to find his own name in boo's post to reply to, but somehow he missed everything around it going on related to Dom's lynch? Whatever the case, his explanation makes me not want to lynch him in case he's telling the truth about what happened, and it also makes me think he didn't have anyone else behind the scenes that was able to set him straight. Which is exactly what I would expect a baddie-Timmer to be able to manipulate me into thinking and believing. He is exactly the kind of player who could make a stupid slipup and then afterwards find the exact right way to convince me that I'm wrong. I'd like to let it go for now and look elsewhere, but at the moment I don't really have any strong pings. I think Dom's teammates were lying low or trying to do some misdirection. So many players did not participate during the first two days.

#360

I assume boo was killed by the occasional baddie killer, Nev. Although it could have been anyone really.

It was not me; I have not been involved in the night deaths of anyone.

#361

I guess that could make sense.
The description of that role made me think "Crazed violent death rampage" descriptions would be evident, rather than 'mysteriously died' type descriptions.
I still think that Bigelowe is more likely though.

So we think that only non-outing statements can be checked, possibly?
That's way harder to use effectively, I guess.
I can't think of anything clever, so I'll go with yours I guess:
I have not been involved in the night deaths of anyone.

#362

I hate when I stop mid-post and come back later;
I always end up sounding stupid because I reuse words and phrases unconciously, I guess.

#363

This whole confession business looks a bit ridiculous k, because

1. I don't believe any of you

2. The polygraph dude is ONE and can't do much without outing himself;
3. I'm super evil

(I'm available for recruiting k

)

#364

I disagree Lizzy. Leaving statements for the LD gives him options to check. Otherwise he would have nothing to check. He can use the info he receives without outting himself. It will let him know which people to trust and which people are untrustworthy. Would you rather people not leave him statements, and negate his power completely?

#365

i don't trust anyone so his role is pointless to me k

#366

So i went back and looked at the poll results and on day one these are the people who voted Flyin High. kneel4justice (12), Turnip Head (13), timmer (15). I think we can find a baddie in this group.

On day 2 K4J voted Dom, first. (Did we ever discuss the fact that Dom only had 2 votes and was lynched over TH?) So I think its least likely to be him.

Out of the other 2, TH has been more outgoing with his willingness to post LD statements and, added to that, Timmer's vote sure looks like a save of Dom. My plan atm is a vote for Timmer.

#367

I am suspicious of TH and SVS because I feel as though they both worked around voting for Dom. It is hard to fault TH for thinking what I was thinking as far as voting for FH because I still think my argument against FH was valid after seeing the performance last game, but the problem was TH agreed with me rather than making the point and going with it. Or if he did make the point he didn't vote until I did, so that makes me wonder about him.

#368

I said I waffle on Dom, he fooled the crap out of me in Shawshank, and I totally misread him in CAH. Plus I have known him since he was like 13 or so so it is hard for me to NOT fall for his sympathy act. I thought I was exceedingly clear after he was saved but before he was lynched. I did not know Doms role, we did not have BTS, I was not on Doms bad team. It is what it is.

#369

S~V~S wrote:I said I waffle on Dom, he fooled the crap out of me in Shawshank, and I totally misread him in CAH. Plus I have known him since he was like 13 or so so it is hard for me to NOT fall for his sympathy act. I thought I was exceedingly clear after he was saved but before he was lynched. I did not know Doms role, we did not have BTS, I was not on Doms bad team. It is what it is.

What do you think about TH? I haven't really been able to keep up.

#370

Turnip Head wrote:I disagree Lizzy. Leaving statements for the LD gives him options to check. Otherwise he would have nothing to check. He can use the info he receives without outting himself. It will let him know which people to trust and which people are untrustworthy. Would you rather people not leave him statements, and negate his power completely?

I think there's a bit too much emphasis on the poor guy, and I wouldn't be surprised if the baddies used this as a distraction. Like I said, the fact that he knows that someone is bad or not does not really help because they can't do too much without outing themselves. And I don't see what's the point of statements like 'I'm a civ' is because it doesn't tell me personally anything about said person, and I have a vote to cast, it will probably tell the polygraph (ONE person) what their alignment is IF they decide to check that thing, not to mention the fact that we don't even know if he can check that kind of statements. The baddies can come in and post 'oh look at me I'm such a nice civ' knowing that it will probably make them look good AND that the polygraph guy can't do a lot about it without risking getting killed the next night.

Also, it's not negating his power. Leaving him alone to pick on proper slips or odd statements would be wiser.

So yus! Dom, who 'accidentally' voted for me and was one of the first who started this confession trend, was rotten. Now the other person who I had the feeling was trying to put a tag on yours turely as a non-baddie, and thus making me vulnerable during the night, plus now has a whole list of statements, is SVS.

And you're not looking too good yourself, son.

a bunch of linkis

#371

S~V~S wrote:I said I waffle on Dom, he fooled the crap out of me in Shawshank, and I totally misread him in CAH. Plus I have known him since he was like 13 or so so it is hard for me to NOT fall for his sympathy act. I thought I was exceedingly clear after he was saved but before he was lynched. I did not know Doms role, we did not have BTS, I was not on Doms bad team. It is what it is.

#372

kneel4justice wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I said I waffle on Dom, he fooled the crap out of me in Shawshank, and I totally misread him in CAH. Plus I have known him since he was like 13 or so so it is hard for me to NOT fall for his sympathy act. I thought I was exceedingly clear after he was saved but before he was lynched. I did not know Doms role, we did not have BTS, I was not on Doms bad team. It is what it is.
What do you think about TH? I haven't really been able to keep up.

When i read TH, I read his posts in my head in the voice of Mr Rogers. He is always very level, and even, friendly & helpful, hard to read. The main thing that sticks out to me, if I recall correctly (i will have to check) is that when he & Dom started making statement like i had been doing, after Epi started saying we were teammates, I am fairly sure they did not start until night was either over, or was nearly over. When it was too late for the checker to change his PM. They both started doing it about the same time, too.

That kinda was one of those things that make you go Hmmmmmm, you know?

Linki @ Lizzy~ you never played a game in the old days, when the LD really ran the game. The first post EVERYONE made was an LD statement, it eventually became that you could not force a statement, and certain things became uncheckable, like "I am not a baddie", etc. I have not seen an LD in ages, Faraday was the first in some time, it was very old school. But these hosts have said they will allow carte blanche, so when one comes under suspicion, saying boldly what you are and are not is helpful.

Lini @ Dom Yeah, you are always eager puppy to my mind, lol~

#373

#374

EPWOP, I will not say that I will for a fact suspect anyone who refuses to make one, but I have seen that happen

Linki ~ <3

#375

Interesting about the timing of that SVS. I need to go check.

#376

SVS - that may be ture for 'the old day', but with this one, I'm thinking in the context of this particular game. As far as I can see, Keyes doesn't have any secrets and is not protected against NKs, so I can't really see him running the show.

#377

Yeah i just looked, they both made their first checkable statements after the night post, http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 200#p58740~ dom in his first post after the NP, and TH in his second.

Linki @ Lizzy, possibly, but you already made one or more, when you said you were bad or evil, so no worries there

And most LDs were not protected, so that made the paranoia even worse~ you did not know if he was alive or not

So it still applies. It's a sucky role to have in a game if you are bad.

#378

Anyway, I have to vote now. Good luck!

*votes SVS*

linki - Stop being so nice and buddy up to me and make me feel bad about my vote!

#379

LOL, no worries Lizzy, I am not bad, but do what you have to do

#380

S~V~S wrote:I am not surprised by this result, really. I expected one of two things; that boo would be nked cause i said i would NK him if i were bad OR that they would not, which would mean HE was bad himself. I am sorry he was killed this way. Also not surprised by Epis death, although, again, sorry it happened, and that i did not trust him earlier.

I will have more time tonight.

Why are you sorry for Epi's death? Did I miss something that confirmed him as a civ?

#381

With one team, i think it is unlikely he is Doms teammate. Plus he was killed by Franz Kindler, who is one of the baddies

boo being civ is more questionable since he was killed by "???"

#382

S~V~S wrote:With one team, i think it is unlikely he is Doms teammate. Plus he was killed by Franz Kindler, who is one of the baddies

boo being civ is more questionable since he was killed by "???"

Oh. Whoops!!
I got Franz confused with Frank and thought a civ killed Epi.

#383

I feel like I can read Timmer well. Just ask him. I have called him out bad and been right more than I have been wrong. I am feeling like Timmer was genuine after he made his posts and realized he had missed several posts. I am not getting any nose twitches about him. Yes his vote was unfortunate for FH but I really feel like he is prob good. So I don't think I can vote for him.

I am still suspicious of TH and with who was killed (Epi) I could see TH doing for the confusion and wifom in the thread. He is a good player and his posts read as slick to me. I am going to stay with my previous vote for TH again today.

#384

Ok I'll go with th but I'm keeping an eye on timmer.

#385

Roxy has pretty much never been wrong about me lol, which is a source of great annoyance when I'm bad!

Kate, I can't defend against the placement and timing of my fh vote it is what it is, but to your point about being forthcoming with ld statements, I'm simply not of the opinion that posting a million different statements is actually helpful. I posted that I am civ. thats one Line, they can check it and know everything they need to about me. sometimes when a bunch of people are all posting twenty different statements each, it feels shady to me tbh. like yeah you've got one Line that says you are civ but then you've got twenty more like "I dont have btsc" which may be helpful but less than saying you are civ. more statements means a greater chance that the ld will make a mistake and pick something dumb. as far as I'm concerned saying that I'm chic like I previously did is more efficient.

#386

lol my phone always wants to turn civ into chic! (and for the ld I am chic as well lol)

#387

I double checked the polls and th seems like a good bet. vires.

#388

I did not kill Epignosis. Much as I may have wanted to :P

It's also silly I think to try and use the timing of my LD statement against me. I made statements for the LD before the one you're talking about, and have been a major proponent of sharing information with him from the very beginning. You'd have to argue that I was being coy about helping the LD if you were going to use the timing against me. The timing of me making that statement is directly related to SVS and Dom making those statements right before I did. So you could argue that the timing has nothing to do with me and everything to do with SVS and Dom.

Roxy, what's your case against me? Is it just my vote for FH? Because Timmer voted for FH too but you have him a complete pass. Are you suspicious of my tone? What would you argue that my tone has been this game, and how has it been different from my tone in other games?

Also, frankly I don't see how I could be bad at this point. If I was on the baddie team with Dom I could have voted for Epignosis and Dom could have as well. I'd like someone to make a logical case for how that lynch played out from the perspective of me being a baddie. It doesn't make sense at all to me.

I think the baddies are just afraid of letting me hang around, and want to take advantage of the fact that suspicion of me hasn't completely dissipated yet.

#389

Man. The votes against me honestly look like you guys have no logical reason to be suspicious of me. Just taking advantage of my name being tossed around to not discuss other suspects instead. If I do end up being lynched, I hope those that voted against me are held accountable for their votes. I'm being voted for out of convenience and because it means we don't have to talk about other players.

#390

Anyways, I'm suspicious of k4j. I think if he was a civvie he'd be more interested in talking to me directly about my behavior and things that I've done in the game in order to form his opinion about me. Instead he's only asked other players for their thoughts on me while not giving his own opinion. Testing the waters to see if there was enough suspicion on me to get me lynched.

#391

I also find it suspicious that no one tried to get to the bottom of what happened yesterday when Dom was lynched even though I had more votes. Dont people normally ask "TH, do you know why you survived?" None of that here. Just people voting for me without question. Which again seems like a baddie move.

#392

Turnip Head wrote:I also find it suspicious that no one tried to get to the bottom of what happened yesterday when Dom was lynched even though I had more votes. Dont people normally ask "TH, do you know why you survived?" None of that here. Just people voting for me without question. Which again seems like a baddie move.

TH, do you know why you survived?

#393

Turnip Head wrote:I also find it suspicious that no one tried to get to the bottom of what happened yesterday when Dom was lynched even though I had more votes. Dont people normally ask "TH, do you know why you survived?" None of that here. Just people voting for me without question. Which again seems like a baddie move.

I mentioned that, no one responded but you and not until right now.

#394

Nope. I have no idea why I survived. Thanks for asking though

Interesting, Kate and k4j, that that was the only thing I said that you both thought was worth commenting on.

I really wish I was able to be around and give more detailed defenses and work this out with you guys, I hate the thought of being wrongfully lynched as a civvie,especially since I feel like not much will be learned from my death. but I simply don't have time right now. There is just not enough hours in a day :P

When I'm gone, I hope that the civvies do not give Kate full civ cred just because she voted Dom two days in a row. I can see her throwing her teammate under the bus, especially in a one mafia game setup.. Don't want people to forget that.

#395

Voting TH

#396

Turnip Head wrote:Anyways, I'm suspicious of k4j. I think if he was a civvie he'd be more interested in talking to me directly about my behavior and things that I've done in the game in order to form his opinion about me. Instead he's only asked other players for their thoughts on me while not giving his own opinion. Testing the waters to see if there was enough suspicion on me to get me lynched.

Lol I did not even see this. You sound desperate.
I admit, I haven't had the time to be on and speak directly with you but I haven't spoke directly to many people. That's my fault but I fail to see how it makes you suspicious of me. Especially when I did give my opinion about you, why are you saying I did not? Also, I clearly don't need to test any waters, people are suspicious of you without my input. Oh and I replied and asked you because I wanted to see if you would say yes because that would give me something to think I am wrong about, but you didn't so I think you're scum still.

#397

Turnip Head wrote:Man. The votes against me honestly look like you guys have no logical reason to be suspicious of me. Just taking advantage of my name being tossed around to not discuss other suspects instead. If I do end up being lynched, I hope those that voted against me are held accountable for their votes. I'm being voted for out of convenience and because it means we don't have to talk about other players.

I don't agree with logical. I think my thoughts make sense. But I don't doubt you are an upset scum who really feels this way. Sometimes scum get caught based on faulty logic, it's annoying, I know.
Voting for you though.

#398

Yes but no ones given a specific reason for finding me suspicious. Epi thought my vote for FH was suspicious but no one else has really cited that. No one has cited my tone as being suspicious either. Guess I just want people to explain what they see in me.

#399

Kate wrote:So i went back and looked at the poll results and on day one these are the people who voted Flyin High. kneel4justice (12), Turnip Head (13), timmer (15). I think we can find a baddie in this group.

On day 2 K4J voted Dom, first. (Did we ever discuss the fact that Dom only had 2 votes and was lynched over TH?) So I think its least likely to be him.

Out of the other 2, TH has been more outgoing with his willingness to post LD statements and, added to that, Timmer's vote sure looks like a save of Dom. My plan atm is a vote for Timmer.

This right here was my thought as well about the FH voters. I was coming in here thinking I would probably vote K4j, but he's not of the poll, sooo...did I miss where we talked about that? I don't see a public role mechanic that does this.

#400

Turnip Head wrote:Yes but no ones given a specific reason for finding me suspicious. Epi thought my vote for FH was suspicious but no one else has really cited that. No one has cited my tone as being suspicious either. Guess I just want people to explain what they see in me.

I am pretty sure I said I thought that your vote for FH was suspicious and that you seemed to have been working around voting for Dom.

Which kitty killed Mattmatt?