Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[Gavial]

Guillo and Dizzy both flipping Wolf should confirm both me and Sig.

I must have missed a lot lol. Are these preflip associations or did we really catch 2 wolves before I made my first post?

We only caught them if one of them flip Wolf.
They are literally both aligned together.
Either Wolf or Town.

[Gavial]

Them being wolf confirms 3 Town.
2 of which are Power Players. (Me and Sean.)

[Gavial]

@Jackofhearts2005
If you vote Dizzy with me I won’t target you at night.

[Gavial]

Gives me Paranoia the team is something like:
Dizzy/Guillo/Lime Coke/Jack

[Jackofhearts2005]

Page 1 is just talking about claims but that's boring.

I refuse to claim unless doing so will directly lead to a wolf yeet or unless someone can point out to me that there are safeclaims or wolves can otherwise easily claim.

I hate being cornered by claims as a wolf and I feel bad cornering wolves via claims as a townie. Plus, I got killed once by anticlaim like 2 years ago and I'm still sore about it.

Scumread this idgaf.

[Gavial]

I suppose Jack you could vote Guillo as well but Dizzy is probably trying to pocket Sean and is I feel as the capabilities of dodging the yeet after Guillo/Wolf so I kinda want them to go first but I won’t oppose to Guillo going first.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Guillo and Dizzy both flipping Wolf should confirm both me and Sig.

I must have missed a lot lol. Are these preflip associations or did we really catch 2 wolves before I made my first post?

We only caught them if one of them flip Wolf.
They are literally both aligned together.
Either Wolf or Town.

Got it. Are they like acting scummy?

Dizzy is one of my favorite players and I don't want to remove them from the game just cause. Guillo's like...okay I guess.

[sabie12]

Trying to sort out the LP Guillo argument. I think meta reads can be open to interpretation like two people can see someone's play in different ways. So I feel like falcon seemed like his usual town self to me far but I don't know him as well as others might. My wilgy meta is telling me his random mumble posting is towny.

Tell me your thoughts on that since ngl I started skimming that and then brain dumped it.

I agree with wilgy meta, I do expect him to start like doing something, but not this early and he's mislynched almost as much as me so we gotta have that day 1 protection going on.

I also had a hard time processing all of it. I think it comes down to differing opinions on meta reads and like if someone's meta read is off does that make them scummy. I don't think it does if it's early on in the game when there isn't much other info to go off of.

Yeah that always sucks when that happens but I think that's gotten better for him. If given a chance to live longer wilgy becomes more active. I guess I do the same thing.

There isn't much info to go off?

Have you read the thread?

I have read the thread thank you for asking. When I say not as much info I mean like day 1 we don't have flips or actions or anything to look at yet so the focus tends to be more on meta and tone. I was trying to figure out the point of your disagreement with LP. Do you scum read both LP and falcon?

[Gavial]

Guillo and Dizzy both flipping Wolf should confirm both me and Sig.

I must have missed a lot lol. Are these preflip associations or did we really catch 2 wolves before I made my first post?

We only caught them if one of them flip Wolf.
They are literally both aligned together.
Either Wolf or Town.

Got it. Are they like acting scummy?

Dizzy is one of my favorite players and I don't want to remove them from the game just cause. Guillo's like...okay I guess.

They are basically doing what I expect wolf them to do and their interacts and everything and dizzy’s posts don’t feel natural Townie at all.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I suppose Jack you could vote Guillo as well but Dizzy is probably trying to pocket Sean and is I feel as the capabilities of dodging the yeet after Guillo/Wolf so I kinda want them to go first but I won’t oppose to Guillo going first.

Why are people voting for you eh?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Same question @sabie12

[Gavial]

Trying to sort out the LP Guillo argument. I think meta reads can be open to interpretation like two people can see someone's play in different ways. So I feel like falcon seemed like his usual town self to me far but I don't know him as well as others might. My wilgy meta is telling me his random mumble posting is towny.

Tell me your thoughts on that since ngl I started skimming that and then brain dumped it.

I agree with wilgy meta, I do expect him to start like doing something, but not this early and he's mislynched almost as much as me so we gotta have that day 1 protection going on.

I also had a hard time processing all of it. I think it comes down to differing opinions on meta reads and like if someone's meta read is off does that make them scummy. I don't think it does if it's early on in the game when there isn't much other info to go off of.

Yeah that always sucks when that happens but I think that's gotten better for him. If given a chance to live longer wilgy becomes more active. I guess I do the same thing.

There isn't much info to go off?

Have you read the thread?

I have read the thread thank you for asking. When I say not as much info I mean like day 1 we don't have flips or actions or anything to look at yet so the focus tends to be more on meta and tone. I was trying to figure out the point of your disagreement with LP. Do you scum read both LP and falcon?

Oh no Sabie it’s funnier then that.

Guillo scum reads LP and lock towns Falcon because and only because of their scum read on LP.
Lmao.

[Gavial]

I suppose Jack you could vote Guillo as well but Dizzy is probably trying to pocket Sean and is I feel as the capabilities of dodging the yeet after Guillo/Wolf so I kinda want them to go first but I won’t oppose to Guillo going first.

Why are people voting for you eh?

Literally just “Let’s ML Gavial!”

[Gavial]

Least from what I’m seeing

[Gavial]

Ima null read Jack for today because like he has too much luck rolling wolf.

[sabie12]

Same question @sabie12

Eh guillo thinks I can't read and dyslexicon didn't like that I hadn't provided much content or reads yet and is trying to get me to participate more.

[Marmot]

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

I feel that they're not w/w with LC tho since they asked if something helped them

I'm pocketing LC, don't mind me.

[MacDougall]

I'm excited to have @MacDougall @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME and @Jackofhearts2005 to contribute more. I need bounce plz.

you can't spell contribute without tribute

[MacDougall]

I suppose Jack you could vote Guillo as well but Dizzy is probably trying to pocket Sean and is I feel as the capabilities of dodging the yeet after Guillo/Wolf so I kinda want them to go first but I won’t oppose to Guillo going first.

Why are people voting for you eh?

huh

[Dyslexicon]

Without a reason?
Your posts have been very stingy, I see more wolf equity behind it.

If you all think “Bad Play” and “ML material” is a good reason to push someone then your just asking to lose.

Yeah, you haven't given a reason prior to this.

Why is "very stingy" wolfy for me?
It isn't.

[Dyslexicon]

Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.

Calls me town in this post but then says I’m doing what I did in my scum game in the next.

LOL.

What's your point?

You did do that in your last scum game I saw.
I've seen you make bad reads and tunnel as both town and mafia.

[Dyslexicon]

Boo hiss no wolf flips yet.

Gurl. No.


Get caught up I wanna talk with you <3

[Dyslexicon]

Guillo and Dizzy both flipping Wolf should confirm both me and Sig.

I must have missed a lot lol. Are these preflip associations or did we really catch 2 wolves before I made my first post?

We only caught them if one of them flip Wolf.
They are literally both aligned together.
Either Wolf or Town.

Got it. Are they like acting scummy?

Dizzy is one of my favorite players and I don't want to remove them from the game just cause. Guillo's like...okay I guess.

I love you, Jackofmyheart.

Have you played with Gavial before?

[Dyslexicon]

They are basically doing what I expect wolf them to do and their interacts and everything and dizzy’s posts don’t feel natural Townie at all.

You don't know me like that.

Gavial, real talk. You know you're super frustrating to play with, because you pick a random ass tunnel and just go weeeeeee every fucking game. It is a reasons people keep calling your reads bad.

I don't know how to help you read me if you're trying, cause it seems to me like you've just picked a read and conf bias everything.

I'm obviously trying to solve the game, and it's there if you want to see it. I don't give a shit how my posts "feels" to you. I'll interact as little as possible with you, cause I have nothing nice to say.

[Dyslexicon]

Same question @sabie12

Eh guillo thinks I can't read and dyslexicon didn't like that I hadn't provided much content or reads yet and is trying to get me to participate more.

I actually didn't explain my vote on you at all, I think?

But that is pretty much it, yeah. Curious.

[Dyslexicon]

Guys...Gavial is pinging me again...make him stop...

Particularly by doing this.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

was there a specific post or series of posts you could point at as pinging you

Spoiler: show

16, 4, 18, 1, 13, 9, 7



That is my RNG POE


So Seanzie, falcon, TSP, Dolby, Nook, LP, & Jack...let's start flipping these goons

I like that but not LP.

Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

I can sheep you!

Inside the spoiler but post #1 Gavial takes Falcon's RNG team guess and says "I'm fine with all of them except for LP" which is taking a joke post seriously and literally just being "Fine" with the rest of the names being voted off.

Post #2 just yells out "I can sheep you!" towards Falcon for saying he sus's Sean. Like is he fine with sheeping Falcon because he agrees that Sean is wolfie orrrrrr...?

hmmm was hopeful that we were looking at the same thing but ig not

what're your thoughts on this then @Gavial

Low to mid key think this is towny for Martin.
I think it shows he did have a reaction and thoughts about specifics from Gavial, and was hoping that it would be something he could discuss with Lime. So it's not fabricated, it was a reaction that was really there.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm way too impatient.

Town people:
Guillo
Sean
Tony
Martin
Lime

I'm unsure on Gavial, don't care if he dies.

Unsure on Falcon, but my iffy read on him was more based off of his interaction with Gavial. Still think if Gavial is mafia or Falcon is, the other is likely to be. Outside of this though, I don't really have any problems with Falcon.

[LinearPoint]

Guillo vs LP:

As far as I can understand, Guillo takes issue with LP using his comment about Falcon's meta to build suspicion on Falcon. According to Guillo, LP should not do this when LP null reads Guillo.

I understand the argument logically, but I think it's faulty.
LP agreed that he did use Guillo's statement, along with their own view of Falcon's meta. So Guillo's statement just built up around what LP was already thinking.
And taking a comment about meta on face value is totally normal, regardless of having a read on the person who's saying it or not.
It's not like mafia goes around randomly lying about people's meta on D1 for shits and giggles.
It's ridiculous to hold everyone to an expectations that they should distrust literally everything anyone says unless you town read them, and if you're not doing that, you have TMI.
And some of us doesn't go looking for things to distrust.
Some people are paranoid like that, which I think Guillo is (and for example Sean to a lesser degree), but I think most players aren't.

Regardless of LP's alignment, I think Guillo's point is faulty, so it doesn't convince me at all.

As for Guillo, I'm holding off a bit on having a read. I don't think he's out of town range, but I also don't remember well the differences among his town or scum game. I'm not agreeing much with the direction he has now, but that's also NAI.

LP is lean town for me. They are town if Gavial is mafia. I think they've talked mech from a town perspective (like if we are going to claim, we should do it later when info roles have some actual info), and looked at solutions to have the setup give town benefit. All their solving posts seems fine to me. I've never played with them, so I'd be interested if anyone has meta/opinions.

This is a load of crap my friend im sorry. You cannot tell me with a straight face that you’d believe the meta read of someone you have doubts on. Go back! LP was wishy washy about his read on me, calling me scummy from being all over the place when being all over the place pushing people is the towniest thing a townie can do, only scum would feel uncomfortable and actually threatened by a player looking for answers all over the place and then he says that it just may be my playstyle but in a way that felt like a discredit and less like a compliment.

And then after such treatment, he grabs my meta read onnfalcon, agrees with me and then says that Falcon is most likely to flip as scum? How did i earn such amount of trust from him in just one paragraph hmm?

No my friend.

This is exactly what I'm saying.
It's situational, of course, but there's no reason someone would just lie about a meta take for no reason, regardless of their alignment.
Now, I could read into why someone is bringing meta in at all, but that's another matter entirely.

I went back, and I don't believe LP called you scummy.
He also said that he didn't base his read on your piece of meta, but that the piece of meta supported what he already thought.

This may also be similar to your issue with Lime right now.
You can actually listen and take into account what other players are saying without being sure of their alignment. It's a way of cooperation.
It's also fine if you want to question these instances. But it's not even close a smoking gun, is my opinion.

LP said he had doubts on me because ive been all over he place and looked like i was looking to latch onto any bandwagon. That description fits scummy behavior, he didnt directly call me scummy for scum hunting but he paraphrased it.

Why are you not catching this? How many times have you read it?

What I was trying to say was that I was unsure how to interrupt it. I was saying you were all over the place, but what I wasn't sure on was if you were fishing for a bandwagon to latch onto or just not confident in your own reads. That's why it was null at first, like you said I don't know your playstyle so I have no idea if that was normal behavior for you or just a Mafia being fishy and way to non-committal towards their reads. I only pointed it out because it was noteworthy behavior, but was not enough on its own the make a judgement call that you had to be Mafia.

[LinearPoint]

Also as somebody who doesn't know everyone's alts and stuff.
Who is Dizzy? Because everyone keeps mentioning them and I have no idea.

[Dyslexicon]

Also as somebody who doesn't know everyone's alts and stuff.
Who is Dizzy? Because everyone keeps mentioning them and I have no idea.

It me

[Gavial]

Without a reason?
Your posts have been very stingy, I see more wolf equity behind it.

If you all think “Bad Play” and “ML material” is a good reason to push someone then your just asking to lose.

Yeah, you haven't given a reason prior to this.

Why is "very stingy" wolfy for me?
It isn't.

There is certain ways someone plays town and how someone plays mafia and the motivation and content behind their posts can show who’s town and who’s mafia.

[Gavial]

I'm way too impatient.

Town people:
Guillo
Sean
Tony
Martin
Lime

I'm unsure on Gavial, don't care if he dies.

Unsure on Falcon, but my iffy read on him was more based off of his interaction with Gavial. Still think if Gavial is mafia or Falcon is, the other is likely to be. Outside of this though, I don't really have any problems with Falcon.

Lol that’s stingy as fuck!
Saying me and Falcon Wolf if Wolf after I said the same thing to you and Guillo.
Lmao.

[Gavial]

Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.

Calls me town in this post but then says I’m doing what I did in my scum game in the next.

LOL.

What's your point?

You did do that in your last scum game I saw.
I've seen you make bad reads and tunnel as both town and mafia.

My point is your read isn’t genuine.

If you were genuine you would say something like “I’m undecided towards Gavial’s alignment. I kinda like his recent posting but he is also showing similarities from his previous scum game where he pushed me.”
Kinda like what Lime Coke did but he wanted to scum read me for the paranoia I suppose.

[Gavial]

I can definitely see town motivation behind his push and post though.
I can’t see any town motivation from you Dizzy.

[Gavial]

Boo hiss no wolf flips yet.

Gurl. No.


Get caught up I wanna talk with you <3

Still think the 4 team being Guillo/Dizzy/Lime/Jack is most likely but it is just day 1 but it is still likely.

[Gavial]

They are basically doing what I expect wolf them to do and their interacts and everything and dizzy’s posts don’t feel natural Townie at all.

You don't know me like that.

Gavial, real talk. You know you're super frustrating to play with, because you pick a random ass tunnel and just go weeeeeee every fucking game. It is a reasons people keep calling your reads bad.

I don't know how to help you read me if you're trying, cause it seems to me like you've just picked a read and conf bias everything.

I'm obviously trying to solve the game, and it's there if you want to see it. I don't give a shit how my posts "feels" to you. I'll interact as little as possible with you, cause I have nothing nice to say.

“Random ass tunnel”
No it’s all picked for a reason.

You and Guillo by Gamestate have wolf equity and if you guys truly are wolf the other one is as well.

[Gavial]

Just talk with me it’s not frustrating.
If your town then theoretically you should be able to work with me and act on a Townie mindset.

Like the only true way to solve is the way I do which is entirely game state based.

[Gavial]

Like it’s funny because Guillo be calling Me/Sig not aligned but let’s still vote both of them and Dizzy be mimicking what I did with them and Guillo to me and “random ass choice” Falcon.


And dizzy complaining why I’m suspecting them? Lmao.

[Gavial]

Hey so let’s start walking together eh?
@Dyslexicon
Why TSP town?

[LinearPoint]

Honestly even though Gav isn't giving off the best vibes right now I find it odd no real effort has been put into creating any sort of counterwagon.
Gav still has the most votes at 3 and I just think that logically if Gav was Mafia they would at least put some effort into creating a counterwagon, but it seems to me like everyone is scum reading him and at best not really interested in him.
Plus if Gav was actively being bussed right now I'd still expect more than 3 votes on him, so that plus this seems like his usual play I'm not really leaning on him actually flipping Mafia.

[Gavial]

Honestly even though Gav isn't giving off the best vibes right now I find it odd no real effort has been put into creating any sort of counterwagon.
Gav still has the most votes at 3 and I just think that logically if Gav was Mafia they would at least put some effort into creating a counterwagon, but it seems to me like everyone is scum reading him and at best not really interested in him.
Plus if Gav was actively being bussed right now I'd still expect more than 3 votes on him, so that plus this seems like his usual play I'm not really leaning on him actually flipping Mafia.

I’m telling you it’s probably Guillo and Dizzy.

[Gavial]

As wolves.

[LinearPoint]

What's with the Sabie wagon right now? Is it just that they aren't really contributing?
I can't seem to find a justification for it other than possibly that.

[Gavial]

What's with the Sabie wagon right now? Is it just that they aren't really contributing?
I can't seem to find a justification for it other than possibly that.

Basically it’s being voted and only voted by Likley wolves.
The wagon is similar to mine, it’s basically “ohhhhhh look what we got here boys! An easy ML!”

[Gavial]

Like the only person in this game voted somewhat properly other then myself is like Sig, You, Martin and Mac from what I can see.

[Gavial]

Moving Mac to town for now.

[LinearPoint]

You thing half of the Mafia would try and push the same person day 1 for inactivity with no Town backing them whatsoever?
Plus why not push Wiggly or something since he hasn't posted a single time other than saying he is a Pyro? I would figure Mafia would rather get someone who can mess up their plans out of the way than a random person who is somewhat inactive.

[Gavial]

What's with the Sabie wagon right now? Is it just that they aren't really contributing?
I can't seem to find a justification for it other than possibly that.

Basically it’s being voted and only voted by Likley wolves.
The wagon is similar to mine, it’s basically “ohhhhhh look what we got here boys! An easy ML!”

I think what they are basically trying to accomplish is they knew @TonyStarkPrime was interacting with Sabie (TvT Interaction) and wanted to push that on Sabie without stating anything on TSP.

They are probably hoping TSP sheep’s them on Sabie.

[Gavial]

You thing half of the Mafia would try and push the same person day 1 for inactivity with no Town backing them whatsoever?
Plus why not push Wiggly or something since he hasn't posted a single time other than saying he is a Pyro? I would figure Mafia would rather get someone who can mess up their plans out of the way than a random person who is somewhat inactive.

Because TSP started an interaction with Sabie and wolves wanted to pick up on it.

[Dyslexicon]

Lol that’s stingy as fuck!
Saying me and Falcon Wolf if Wolf after I said the same thing to you and Guillo.
Lmao.

I said that about you/Falcon way before you said your shit.

And why would it matter anyway? Don't answer, it's rhetorical.