[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[MacDougall]

I feel quite safe this evening.

[Marmot]

Did you guys even read past the first line?

[MacDougall]

I'm not sure what's so confusing? Devin almost gets lynched on day 4 and the scum double down on ensuring a town lynch day 5 by drugging him night 4. Makes my argument that there are people on the tail end of Devin's wagon that would be scum too.

[seaside]

I don't think he was drugged.

[MacDougall]

I don't think he was drugged.

Enter the voice of reason.

Okay go on. What's the truth.

[seaside]

Anyway, I'm sticking with either one of the 3 being scum. Espers, Diiny or JJJ
I do agree that if espers is just going to get night killed we should then just kill Diiny.

Although it seems that the only person who agrees with me on that is also everyone elses top scum suspect outside of espers.

[seaside]

I get those names from the people who voted for Ricochet on day 3? the one with the poll about who long con team mate. Whichever day that was.
These are the people who voted for him

JaggedJimmyJay, Rbzmncaeaei, Diiny, Golden, seaside, espers

Now RBZ and Golden have been killed.
I know i'm not scum.
Which leaves JJJ, Diiny and Espers.

[seaside]

Although it seems that the only person who agrees with me on that is also everyone elses top scum suspect outside of espers.

just realised i misread who else voted. ignore this line

[Matt]

Devin Heaven also wanted Diiny gone. For "reasons".

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

[seaside]

Dear serial killer

Although we've never met before fate has intertwined our paths. I am sure this will be very bold of me but bare my straightforwardness. I have been having very clear indications that strawhenge/sig/epignosis/rico are scum. By scum I mean scum of the earth. Thugs of the lowest order that need to be exterminated in order for both of our factions to have a decent chance to win this game. Many people call you a serial killer but they are gravely mistaken. You are a white knight upholding justice. Just kill either of those four(or two if you have stacked kills) and make this world a better place.

PS: Cherish every moment, life is too small for being petty.
PS 2: Don't kill me.

Your beautiful and all knowing friend.
Little Chris.

!

Not only am I scum for you for allegedly chatting about the SK (feel free to refresh your scum read on me, if otherwise)

but you've just went from "talking about SK is scum"

to addressing the SK himself and asking for his "help"!

i believe you are town despite really wanting you to be scum

[seaside]

lol i just realised it is already night....
i made those last posts without realising that devin had already been lynched.

can drugs be used on only one person? or can scum use it on more than one person?

[RadicalFuzz]

I'm glad that I'm a reassuring presence, MM. Somewhat confused as to how, but glad nonetheless.

Heads up J3.

[Marmot]

I'm glad that I'm a reassuring presence, MM. Somewhat confused as to how, but glad nonetheless.

Heads up J3.

You are very calm and collected. Your decisions are not rash, and your demeanor is unwavering.

I like you.

[Marmot]

lol i just realised it is already night....
i made those last posts without realising that devin had already been lynched.

can drugs be used on only one person? or can scum use it on more than one person?

Drugs can use his power once every even night. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

[seaside]

lol i just realised it is already night....
i made those last posts without realising that devin had already been lynched.

can drugs be used on only one person? or can scum use it on more than one person?

Drugs can use his power once every even night. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

are we assuming drugs also voted for the person the next day?

[Marmot]

lol i just realised it is already night....
i made those last posts without realising that devin had already been lynched.

can drugs be used on only one person? or can scum use it on more than one person?

Drugs can use his power once every even night. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

are we assuming drugs also voted for the person the next day?

If you were Drugs, would you vote for the player you tossed two extra votes on?

[seaside]

lol i just realised it is already night....
i made those last posts without realising that devin had already been lynched.

can drugs be used on only one person? or can scum use it on more than one person?

Drugs can use his power once every even night. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

are we assuming drugs also voted for the person the next day?

If you were Drugs, would you vote for the player you tossed two extra votes on?

i have been absent throughout yesterday, so i don't know how the votes went onto both espers and devin in real time
but say for example if jjj was drugs, he voted early, gave drugs to devin the night before. then realised that it was going to be close, he could either change his vote to ensure that devin gets lynched, making it look suss with the late vote change
or he could of just left it on, knowing that espers getting lynched on a cointoss would also work for scum. or he could of communicated with his scum mates to jump onto devin to make the numbers?

[seaside]

also what is with devin self voting? has that been brought up yet?

[Marmot]

also what is with devin self voting? has that been brought up yet?

At this point, since he flipped townie, it was definitely just a frustrated townie throwing in the towel.

I don't think we can deduce anything else from that.

[seaside]

also what is with devin self voting? has that been brought up yet?

At this point, since he flipped townie, it was definitely just a frustrated townie throwing in the towel.

I don't think we can deduce anything else from that.

well if that 1 vote doesn't count because it is rule breaking. it means there were 3 extra unaccounted votes for him not just two.
well we could theorise that there was drugs used on him and a power from one of the following: pulled up, blind or once in a lifetime.

[Marmot]

HOSTS: Was Devin's lynch influenced by anything other than the roles in this game?

No.

From this, I assumed that any punishment Devin received did not impact the result of the lynch.

[seaside]

HOSTS: Was Devin's lynch influenced by anything other than the roles in this game?

No.

From this, I assumed that any punishment Devin received did not impact the result of the lynch.

but that doesn't mean devin vote counted

[Strawhenge]

I've lost steam and am terribly distracted.

I will vote so as not to damage this excellent game the mods have put together—having experienced a replacement-heavy game myself recently—but my participation will be minimal. I'll answer questions as I can but there's very little time I can now devote.

I'm still suspicious of Metalmarsh.

I have no idea why Choutas pegs me as scum.

Eh.

[Strawhenge]

Devin Heaven also wanted Diiny gone. For "reasons".

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

I think Floyd's being gone doesn't deserve those heavy quotes, mate. I think he's legitimately been dealing with things IRL. And also this is his first game. This game was so big and complex that even I have had very little energy to put toward it. Floyd's level of activity should not be used against or for him.

[fingersplints]

fingersplints was highly aggressive against Black Rock in Economics Mafia. Turned out she was town and BR was mafia, so her read was accurate. Does anyone who played in or observed that game feel this parallel is meaningful?

Let's see. Economics: fingersplints is a civvie and thinks black rock is bad. fingersplints is accused of tunneling and only talking about one thing. (Black rock being bad). A bunch of civvies die while no one listens to fingersplints. Black rock is finally lynched and someone else gets credit despite fingersplints mentioning her first.

Shaping up to be exactly the same. I'm a civvie. Black rock is bad. No one is listening to me, as I am being accused of focusing on one subject (Roxy), while other civvies are being lynched instead.

Perhaps the reasons why the civvies keep losing is because they keep listening to the same leaders. Perhaps they should try following someone else for a change.

I'm a bit surprised Russ doesn't remember something that happened in his games, especially since I feel it was kind of important. I remember exact specifics of all my game. Like my first contest I ever hosted in 2011 was won by manu for a poem titled "my life as a princess" :lol: idk maybe he really doesn't remember, but maybe he doesn't want to see how similar my game is to there. Idk just thinking. He seems kinda rational about his thoughts so he is on my undecided list for now.

I gotta try and figure out what was going on with that golden/Bullz thing I remember skimming early. My gut reaction is that Bullz is a civvie, but I think I always think that. Does anyone feel very civvie or baddie about him?

[fingersplints]

Also @ Russ - black rock and I have been playing since 2011 together and she is correct we somehow, whether by our own devices or host mechanics, seem to be at odds. I dont find her the easiest person to read, however she is one of two people I think that I have finally figured out how to read them better. It's a slight tone thing that's hard to explain, but it's what lead me to her instantly in Economics and I see the exact same BR here.

I know she said Roxy isn't an easy target, but I don't think that is true. She was distracted and taking some heat already. It was an easy vote. (Just to clarify - I am by no means accusing BR of using Roxys RL situation to her advantage. But perhaps she should consider that I knew all that, and decided to defend someone I feel most strongly is a civvie who I knew would not be able to herself at that time)

Also since I forgot to say earlier sorry to hear about all your troubles Matt. If you ever need anyone to talk to I'm here.

[Ricochet]

@ Matt and Epi: Whatdo you see about rico? I feel like he's been a helpful civ.

For me, it's tone. He sounds like he's trying to be helpful and it's rubbing me as false. That's completely subjective, but that's what it is. My suspicion of him came from him making a big ass post of nothing:

Joke aside, I addressed that ping of yours back then - saying it's not, as you say, covering everything for the sake of covering everything, but in fact coming clearly with a few suspects out of the BWT vote, plus questioning the motives of several players who voted early during the new Day - and I don't remember hearing back from you. I don't in fact recall any new suspicion of yours on me since, which makes it at least an odd tunnelling on a Day-2-old one-post suspicion.

You've also took me on and off your bad list, so it doesn't even sound like a strong, definitive suspicion to insist on. I rather show up (again) on your bad list as soon as others happen to suspect me (again).

It also makes JJJ extremely unlikely to be scum since he was pushing the shit out of it.

And 3J keeps stressing how civilian you are.

I noticed that, too.

I guess that makes you guys literate. Congrats.

I didn't give credence to you being suspect based on a Found a Job theory which I didn't believe is accurate, but I'm starting to see too much of this bantz defensiveness, not to get weird vibes from such repeated reactions.

RIP Devin.

espers....Avoids being modkilled by checking in, only to say that he doesn't care about the game and wants to be out anyway (and that's not counting his punishment of saying "I deserve to die". Probably forces us to use another lynch to get him, Super lame, and probably a baddie indicator.

Agreed, it's his perceptiveness at checking in, given MP's statements that he'd be modkilled otherwise, that's most suspicious for me. Unlike Mac, I don't think the mafia team is mostly comprised of slackers and low posters, in fact I'm growingly convinced it has big players at the wheel; furthermore, if any low posters do exist in there, I think the mafia team would not desire to simply lose them via modkill.

Here's something to chew on. This relies on Occam's Razor quite a bit.

I looked back through the role list. Drugs appears to be the most likely impact on the lynch of Devin because it directly applies 2 votes to Devin's total if he was targeted. Also recall that Drugs will add 2 votes to each subsequent lynch of the targeted player, not just the following day. On Day 5, Devin was lynched even though he appeared to be behind in the lynch 8-6 to espers.

But on Day 4, Devin lost in the lynch to Sorsha 10-9. Again, if Devin was targeted by Drugs before Day 4, then he probably should have been lynched on this day, but Sorsha was lynched instead. This would suggest the Devin was targeted by Drugs on Night 4. But why would Devin be targeted by Drugs on the night after he gained 9 votes and almost won the lynch? What do y'all think? Why toss the two extra votes his way? Why use an every-other-night power on a player with a lot of suspicion around them instead of on another player who you expect to last longer in the game and also be an effective force?

I believe it could be more than Drugs. His power would only have brought Devin to 8-8 with espers, right? It can still mean Devin lost the tie coin toss, sure. Nonetheless, assuming they are still alive, there are a few more players who could have influenced the tally. Unfortunate, but possible, considering Devin was a main suspect after all.

I get those names from the people who voted for Ricochet on day 3? the one with the poll about who long con team mate. Whichever day that was.
These are the people who voted for him

JaggedJimmyJay, Rbzmncaeaei, Diiny, Golden, seaside, espers

Now RBZ and Golden have been killed.
I know i'm not scum.
Which leaves JJJ, Diiny and Espers.

I don't quite understand the rationale here. Your suspects, according to this, stem out of my D3 wagon, although you also contributed to that wagon, by clearly thinking I am bad. How can you simply exclude yourself from this, via simple civ claim, and treat the others suspicious for a lynch that you also endorsed?

[MacDougall]

Bantz defense is scummy now. Noted.

[MacDougall]

I call upon Choutas to read Epignosis as a possible serial killer and tell me what he thinks. Over to you Choutas.

[Choutas]

I've lost steam and am terribly distracted.

I will vote so as not to damage this excellent game the mods have put together—having experienced a replacement-heavy game myself recently—but my participation will be minimal. I'll answer questions as I can but there's very little time I can now devote.

I'm still suspicious of Metalmarsh.

I have no idea why Choutas pegs me as scum.

Eh.

I'm demented bro.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i have been absent throughout yesterday, so i don't know how the votes went onto both espers and devin in real time
but say for example if jjj was drugs, he voted early, gave drugs to devin the night before. then realised that it was going to be close, he could either change his vote to ensure that devin gets lynched, making it look suss with the late vote change
or he could of just left it on, knowing that espers getting lynched on a cointoss would also work for scum. or he could of communicated with his scum mates to jump onto devin to make the numbers?

Is there a scenario in which you wouldn't be suggesting I'm scum right now?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Perhaps the reasons why the civvies keep losing is because they keep listening to the same leaders. Perhaps they should try following someone else for a change.

Who?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

None of the people I've called out for being bad have been lynched yet. 3J says town should trust one another despite misgivings.

I haven't been trusted once. Pick one of these: bcornett24, MacDougall, Black Rock, Russtifinko, and Ricochet...

...and lynch one.

Yeah I mean to at least reassess the ones we've not already talked about at length.

[Choutas]

I call upon Choutas to read Epignosis as a possible serial killer and tell me what he thinks. Over to you Choutas.

Some things that have pinged me(see I can use the TS word ping myself).
1) He sounds like the TS version of theprofessional. Compliment or slander you make the call.
2) http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 18#p185718 This suggestion is weird, we had two couples on rym and there was never a game where them living together or knowing each other well has given town extra insight. It's the kind of post I'd make if I were scum and pink with her bf(fuck I'm forgetting names now) also played the game.
3) Too interested in upholding the rules. I was doing it a lot in my earlier games, it's not something I should look negatively but it's worth pointing out.
4) He corrected others about his Meta. This is a bit wrong. Everybody has argued their own Meta at least. On the other hand Meta is what the other players view on you is not self-determined. Arguing your Meta brings us to WIFOM. WIFOM can be employed by an anti-town player to survive a meta accusation.
5) Accused you of pulling a confidence trick. That's a less direct way of calling you a con man. He voted for you and said that his votes on you has nothing to do with you calling him a SK I think. Well then what was the reason?(Epi if you can point me to the post you explain I'll retract that point). It looks like an OMGUS vote or OMGUS influenced vote unless I see the reason.

He looks suss enough to make a bigger case.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hosts, could you state whether this post is sufficient to avoid a modkill? If this question is more than you'd care to answer then please don't answer it. Thanks.

ugh why am i still not dead

i'm genuinely sorry for my behaviour, but i'm way behind and not really invested in this right now.

no insult intended to the hosts or anyone playing, i'm just not in the right frame of mind for this. don't anticipate checking in again.

also, i deserve to die for missing the vote

[Choutas]

Am I the only person who becomes wistful and retrospective when listening to the Beatles.
I ponder on my whole life, all of the people I met, the good times, the bad times, how music changed etc.
Seriously the only band who flips that switch.

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It also makes JJJ extremely unlikely to be scum since he was pushing the shit out of it.

And 3J keeps stressing how civilian you are.

I noticed that, too.

You "noticed" it? You picked it up from the implied hidden meanings in my otherwise opaque posts?

There is no "noticing" my content. There is only seeing it plainly along with everyone else who is reading this thread.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

You think the scum would have bumped me off if I was a rogue but not if I'm town?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

RYMers - Is espers polite enough to acknowledge and go through with MP's punishment if he planned on not even playing anymore?

Yes I think he is, but that shouldn't have any bearing on his alignment in my opinion.

[Ricochet]

Bantz defense is scummy now. Noted.

When rather right off the bat, yes, a bit.

Matt came with the SK theory, second reaction you make to it is telling "us idiots" to be able to make a right call if the theory is valid or not.

Now that Epi pointed at you and JJJ curiously handing each other stronk town reads, and I approve of that, your reaction was to "compliment" our reading skills.

It's banter and it's dismissive and it slightly makes me wonder why the need for it, instead of a casual response.

[Ricochet]

Am I the only person who becomes wistful and retrospective when listening to the Beatles.
I ponder on my whole life, all of the people I met, the good times, the bad times, how music changed etc.
Seriously the only band who flips that switch.

Have you met Roxy?

[Choutas]

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

You think the scum would have bumped me off if I was a rogue but not if I'm town?

I said the scum would have a better incentive to bump you off if they believed you were the rogue. A supertownie who has a normal townie role vs a supertownie faceted rogue with unknown powers that needs to kill some scummers sooner or later. Do you disagree with that.
Fwiw I am trying to wrap my head around the fact you're still alive. Makes me even more certain that some of the scummers are after all lurkers.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You cracked the case guys. Jimmy has been publicly orchestrating town lynches on purpose while maintaining a vocal town read on a teammate and we both bussed Long Con on day 2 because he asked us to.

Or we are both townies who have a town read on each other and both had a scum read on a scum player.

And in a twist of fate you two are our teammates.

You may have Jay fooled, but you don't have me fooled.

So you're willing to assume I'm merely wrong and not a dark evil overlord?

This is not a joke question if it appears as such.

[Choutas]

JJJ are you for the modkill of Espers? You voted for him yesterday. It saves a lynch phase if he died from a modkill. You should have pressured the mod more if you're sold to his case.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

You think the scum would have bumped me off if I was a rogue but not if I'm town?

I said the scum would have a better incentive to bump you off if they believed you were the rogue. A supertownie who has a normal townie role vs a supertownie faceted rogue with unknown powers that needs to kill some scummers sooner or later. Do you disagree with that.
Fwiw I am trying to wrap my head around the fact you're still alive. Makes me even more certain that some of the scummers are after all lurkers.

If they'd have some way of knowing my specific role and ID'd me rogue then sure.

Regarding my continuing lifespan: maybe I'm just lucky?

[Ricochet]

It also makes JJJ extremely unlikely to be scum since he was pushing the shit out of it.

And 3J keeps stressing how civilian you are.

I noticed that, too.

You "noticed" it? You picked it up from the implied hidden meanings in my otherwise opaque posts?

There is no "noticing" my content. There is only seeing it plainly along with everyone else who is reading this thread.

What? I didn't say I picked it up from "hidden meanings" or such. I said your statement(s) were noticeable.

However, the point I said I noticed was not simply you townreading Mac hard, but this "townreading" becoming very reciprocal right now between the two of you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ are you for the modkill of Espers? You voted for him yesterday. It saves a lynch phase if he died from a modkill. You should have pressured the mod more if you're sold to his case.

I don't "pressure the mod" to do anything. The hosts will handle that business however they see fit, and I would never presume I have the privilege of influencing that. That's shit Mafia and I refuse.

I only mean to ask because it will affect the way many people approach game in the immediate future.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What? I didn't say I picked it up from "hidden meanings" or such. I said your statement(s) were noticeable.

I know you didn't say it. But "I noticed that too" is suggestive you "picked up on" something as opposed to merely observing it in broad daylight. One does not "notice" the sun.

However, the point I said I noticed was not simply you townreading Mac hard, but this "townreading" becoming very reciprocal right now between the two of you.

Yes, we're town reading one another. Loudly. We've both also supplied a ton of reasons for that, so if it's an issue then players should contest those stated reasons. Mac and I have played a ton of Mafia together and I think we boast a certain degree of synergy. Sure, I could be wrong about him here (I could be wrong about any read I ever state), but without a good reason to think so I'm not going to move from my perspective. Sell me on it by telling me why my reasons for town reading Mac are dubious or weak.

[Ricochet]

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

Why is it easier to pull off being right about which lynches are/feel right and which feel wrong as a solitary rogue, compared to a being in a team of seven, aware of who is civilian (except for the SK)?

In a previous game I was solo indy and I was totally in the fog at discerning mafia from civs, contributing to several civ lynches. As soon as it also appeared that I soft defended a confirmed mafia, the field roasted me. So at least from a personal experience, I dispute this theory that the rogue can con with better reads than a mafioso; if a player is in very good form, he can certainly pull great reads, but as a rogue, he is definitely not more knowledgeable than the mafia.

[Choutas]

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

You think the scum would have bumped me off if I was a rogue but not if I'm town?

I said the scum would have a better incentive to bump you off if they believed you were the rogue. A supertownie who has a normal townie role vs a supertownie faceted rogue with unknown powers that needs to kill some scummers sooner or later. Do you disagree with that.
Fwiw I am trying to wrap my head around the fact you're still alive. Makes me even more certain that some of the scummers are after all lurkers.

If they'd have some way of knowing my specific role and ID'd me rogue then sure.

Regarding my continuing lifespan: maybe I'm just lucky?

Luck is small in a game created by a psychologist.
linki: If you think espers should have been modkilled it's not shit mafia. Expressing your opinion is not shit mafia. If here was RYM he would have been modkilled don't cha think? Pushing for something that is wrong is shit mafia, Espers has barely been here. I have a busy schedule and I still try to play.
linki2: JJJ like RDW prefer to be town or rogues over scum. This is meta talk but a truth nonetheless. I was speaking exclusively about JJJ.