The Syndicate

Dom wrote:TH, I liked the bonus point the most. I really really hate when people make self assessments of their own meta and try to create a narrative about themselves. It looks, to me, like someone is trying to control the narrative being painted.

You mean like MP did at least twice?

S~V~S wrote:Also, who did Zebra vote for?

She voted for sig before the poll was reset.

Matt wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I'm sure I'll be accused of NO U'ing but I do really like the bonus point to TH's case. It's something I've probably done myself many times as a baddie, pointing out how I'm totally a civ because of this one thing I'm doing that I always do as a civ. Like when I'd always tell Dom he's always wrong about me any time he has the slightest suspicion of me.

What noise is this? Give me my long sword, ho!

I'm not a ho you're very rude.

Bullzeye wrote:

Matt wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I'm sure I'll be accused of NO U'ing but I do really like the bonus point to TH's case. It's something I've probably done myself many times as a baddie, pointing out how I'm totally a civ because of this one thing I'm doing that I always do as a civ. Like when I'd always tell Dom he's always wrong about me any time he has the slightest suspicion of me.

What noise is this? Give me my long sword, ho!

I'm not a ho you're very rude.

I pray, sir, can you read?

TH case on Mac is worth thinking over, I've kind off moved off my idea that DH is mafia.

Matt wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Matt wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I'm sure I'll be accused of NO U'ing but I do really like the bonus point to TH's case. It's something I've probably done myself many times as a baddie, pointing out how I'm totally a civ because of this one thing I'm doing that I always do as a civ. Like when I'd always tell Dom he's always wrong about me any time he has the slightest suspicion of me.

What noise is this? Give me my long sword, ho!

I'm not a ho you're very rude.

I pray, sir, can you read?

Ay, mine own fortune in my misery.

Enough of this; I pray thee, hold thy peace

S~V~S wrote:I am not sure I understand the R'as thing. I was hoping to have it explained like I was in Kindergarten. I just read/skimmed most of the 200+ posts since the night post, and I am none the wiser.

Some of the names and reasons for potential Nero teammates are confusing to me. Sometimes things really ARE what they seem, so not sure why everything has to be bussing all the time. Sometimes you suspect someone, AREN'T their teammate and you vote for them and try to get them lynched. This still happens, right?

And is MP doing this on his own, or was he Penguined or what?

Zebra kept asking to be lynched
Zebra claimed she was inmate, but 'pro-town the entire time'.
Ra's just fits with her behaviour. It's a hunch, really.

juliets wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:@DH - I am for real that I do not think advocating for someone's lynch precludes you from being their teammate yes. As I pointed out, I've done it to my entire team before and won as a result.

I wouldn't expect people to do it just for funsies. My team already had heat. I don't suspect you because I feel like you put heat on Nero early and (for a teammate) unnecessarily. Enrique, on the other hand, flipped out of nowhere. It makes much more sense to me that he was bussing.

I'm just saying, I don't like the argument that advocating for someone's lynch means it is unreasonable to consider that you could be bad.

Aight but peep this.

Juliets took a leap of faith based entirely on my calling out Nero. You made a similar move. This completely shifted the lynch in favor of Nero getting axed. As far as I remember, several of the later Nero votes were "Because Nero has votes, hope [you're] Right!" such as Sorsha' vote in particular.

I'm not saying Nero's lynch was my sole doing, but I am saying that if I were teammates with Nero, I had it within my power (obviously) to ensure someone else took the fall. So when I see sig and MP and Mac arguing that I was his teammate, I have to call bullshit on that because it's bullshit.

Also I doubt Enrique bussed Nero because he called the fucker out even earlier than I did.

DH it wasn't based solely on what you said. I took a leap of faith based on what MAtt said. I don't know that this makes any difference I just want the record to be clear.

Wait I took a leap of faith based on what Matt was saying. I even said so in the thread.

juliets wrote:Well, DH whose case I'm considering voting for now says to vote Nero to have a better chance to save Matt. I don't think the evidence is strong for a Nero lynch so I would be taking a leap of faith in Matt in voting for him. Maybe it's time to take a leap of faith, not something I do often, if ever. This place has just been crazy today.

I'm catching up and just happened to see this when i was scrolling backwards so I'm sure I'll be back with more comment in a few after I've finished reading.

Matt was my primary motivator too.

By my heel, I care not.

juliets wrote:Well, DH whose case I'm considering voting for now says to vote Nero to have a better chance to save Matt. I don't think the evidence is strong for a Nero lynch so I would be taking a leap of faith in Matt in voting for him. Maybe it's time to take a leap of faith, not something I do often, if ever. This place has just been crazy today.

I took that first part as saying "Since DH's case on MP was one I was considering, I'm also taking very seriously his statement to lynch Nero"

Which I guess at this point is semantics.

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I am not sure I understand the R'as thing. I was hoping to have it explained like I was in Kindergarten. I just read/skimmed most of the 200+ posts since the night post, and I am none the wiser.

Some of the names and reasons for potential Nero teammates are confusing to me. Sometimes things really ARE what they seem, so not sure why everything has to be bussing all the time. Sometimes you suspect someone, AREN'T their teammate and you vote for them and try to get them lynched. This still happens, right?

And is MP doing this on his own, or was he Penguined or what?

Zebra kept asking to be lynched
Zebra claimed she was inmate, but 'pro-town the entire time'.
Ra's just fits with her behaviour. It's a hunch, really.

I was thinking Catwoman. "Town-aligned" and all.

Bullz there's a specific reason I asked such a broad question and your response sits fine with me. I think Mr. Freeze blocked the killed because I publicly asked him to block Nero's suspected teammates and voilà, no kill last night.

I don't think Mac is Nero's teammate tbh. He acted hypocritically re: TH / eagerness to call oneself civ, but I don't think it's such a big deal and I'm not sold any of those interactions with Nero were less than normal.

MP is bullshitting, but I agree with him. sig is my number one suspect. More on this after I get out of class and ISOs aren't a pain.

ebwop: kill not killed, lol

So yeah... No big surprise I'm behind in this game. I'm going to catch up in the zodiac game first though since it's only like 4 pages long. Be back later.

MP for how long has sig been your number one supect?

Enrique wrote:MP for how long has sig been your number one supect?

I'm guessing since the beginning of the day when someone hungered/forced it tell me was this your doing Enrique?

sig wrote:

Enrique wrote:MP for how long has sig been your number one supect?

I'm guessing since the beginning of the day when someone hungered/forced it tell me was this your doing Enrique?

It was not my doing. I agree this is some behind the scenes thing, but I want MP to answer me anyway.

Enrique wrote:

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I am not sure I understand the R'as thing. I was hoping to have it explained like I was in Kindergarten. I just read/skimmed most of the 200+ posts since the night post, and I am none the wiser.

Some of the names and reasons for potential Nero teammates are confusing to me. Sometimes things really ARE what they seem, so not sure why everything has to be bussing all the time. Sometimes you suspect someone, AREN'T their teammate and you vote for them and try to get them lynched. This still happens, right?

And is MP doing this on his own, or was he Penguined or what?

Zebra kept asking to be lynched
Zebra claimed she was inmate, but 'pro-town the entire time'.
Ra's just fits with her behaviour. It's a hunch, really.

I was thinking Catwoman. "Town-aligned" and all.

Bullz there's a specific reason I asked such a broad question and your response sits fine with me. I think Mr. Freeze blocked the killed because I publicly asked him to block Nero's suspected teammates and voilà, no kill last night.

I don't think Mac is Nero's teammate tbh. He acted hypocritically re: TH / eagerness to call oneself civ, but I don't think it's such a big deal and I'm not sold any of those interactions with Nero were less than normal.

MP is bullshitting, but I agree with him. sig is my number one suspect. More on this after I get out of class and ISOs aren't a pain.

Who were the other players that you asked mr freeze to block? Which one do you think is most likely Neros teammate?

There was a discussion about it. In my original post I said my picks would be MP and Zebra (I think, maybe sabie) but left it to his judgement. Other names that were brought up were me, TH, sig and DH (correct me if I'm missing some).

Zebra is dead and later pretty much came out as an inmate. so I feel safe crossing her off. It wasn't me, and I see practically no chance of it being either TH or DH.

That leaves us with MP, sabie and sig as the most probable supects.

Matt wrote:I second Enrique's Mr Freeze idea. Please block 2 of the following... Enrique, Turnip, DH, MP, sig, sabie, or dat Zeebs.

This was Matt's list, if we are assuming Mr Freeze blocked people on this list at all, he might have blocked two or one. I'd say this isn't enough alone to find someone to lynch but could help point us in the right direction.

I'd like people to consider my Mac case and also go back and reread him to form their own opinions, but in the meantime I got some juicy nuggets to add to my BR case.

As many of you remember, Day 0/1 of the Champs game was a clusterfuck where Rico pooped all over the thread. Somehow it still had fewer posts than Day 1 in this game. But this was BR's reaction to that thread in a game where she was a civvie:

Black Rock in GoC wrote:What happened? I left off on page 8 and I just got back to page 20. Most of me does not want to read all of that.

Black Rock in GoC wrote:Interesting back and forth between Rico and LoRab.

I haven't read the 11 pages before page 20, and I won't be unless I think I missed something important. Ricos posts don't count.

My opinion is all though Rico has been distracting and posting a lot of crap (all the way up to page 8) I don't find him that suspicious. Would he really want that much attention? I was thinking he had a neutral role, if those exist in this game.

He did have a point about LoRabs original post. Seemed easy and even her Matt points were wishy washy at best. Not the best example of LoRabs mafia play. Is she bad? or just not that into it?

BR skipped a portion of the thread and had no regrets about doing so, saying she would go back if she felt she missed something. She was still able to form reads from what she read and continued to be engaged in current events in the thread.

She even gave bea advice to do the same:

Black Rock in GoC wrote:Linki: Bea I am so sad for you. I hope things get better. Honestly I think you should move forward from here and then check back on specific things as needed.

That is in sharp contrast to how she has handled this thread. I speculate that, as a baddie, BR would think that saying something like "I won't be reading the thread" would be viewed as suspicious whereas civvie BR doesn't care how that looks. So instead of saying "fuck it" and either quickly skimming or starting from the present, BR in this game attempts to:

Black Rock wrote:I've decided to look at a few people to best get a feeling of the thread. I feel a little out of the groove. So I started with Scotty, which I was happy to see had under 30 posts. I wish I knew how to read him better. In a direct comparison to the last game I played with him and this game, he feels a lot more conservative and less accusational. He's playing it safe and I don't trust that.

I'm going to check out dharmahelper next.

As has been widely publicized, the DH ISO never takes place. BR's single attempt at an ISO was Scotty, a player with 30 posts who she doesn't read well and concludes she doesn't trust him.

Her next attempt:

Black Rock wrote:So I am officially starting from the beginning and I can't promise that some of the shit I'll bring up is so three days ago.

This was on Page 40. BR started at the beginning of the thread and makes a bunch of posts about the first 8 pages of the game. She gets through 8 pages and calls it a night. BR never got back to this method of becoming involved which is one reason I think her heart wasn't in this exercise and she was just doing it for show. If her intentions were true, I figure she could have started closer towards the End of Day to get a grasp on what people were voting for, or she could have just not commented on every little thing in the first 8 pages, her read would have gone a lot faster.

Black Rock wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:@Turnip Head interesting point about Black Rock.

The same case could possibly be made for Sabie. Im going to check her ISO right now.

I better find this case.

Well this is an odd post. BR demands that Nero follow through with an ISO of sabie.

Black Rock wrote:It doesn't make me bad just busy and disconnected, it's been hard to have my own opinion when my catch ups are coloured by everyone else opinion and it makes me sad that when I actually was trying to put myself back in the game I get told I am hollow and false.

It should be pointed out that being busy and disconnected doesn't make BR a civ either. I don't know how I feel about BR saying it's hard for her to have an opinion from her catch ups, but I know it wasn't difficult for her to have opinions in GoC where she was similarly behind.

DH asks BR about the ISO on him again:

DharmaHelper wrote:The point I was making with my post count is that my posts for the most part aren't that superfluous or difficult to follow. and I'm not posting like six or seven times in a row or using big fuck-off paragraphs or posting one sentence per line or anything that would make a sincere re-read of me implausible.

Black Rock wrote:I think I misunderstood. I will read you since you really want me to but I was only planning that at the time because I was trying to catch up through key players but I haven't bothered because I have changed tactics several times on how I am trying to attack the thread. I don't find you suspicious at this moment so I saw no point. Maybe your posts are insightful so I'll give it a shot.

This ISO still hasn't happened. If BR did not want to do an ISO of DH, why didn't she just say so? Saying she doesn't find DH suspicious but also saying "maybe your posts are insightful" gives the impression she hasn't read DH's posts so why does she think he isn't suspicious? It just feels like empty words with no real meaning behind them.

I don't really feel the Mac case, since it reads more like he was just changing his opinion as the day went. At the very least, I doubt Mac would be that openly supportive of a teammate in thread early in the game.

I do think the point against him about his meta is worth considering further, though. The same goes for MP, who is also relying on his meta for cred (it's not working on me, since after 6 years I still can't tell his civ and baddie games apart).

Ok thanks guys.

I agree w/Enrique about it probably being mp, sig or sabie.

Sig- which one(s) do you think it most likely is?

As far as the Ra's/zebra thing. Hasn't MP been asking for lynch also? I'd say he's a top contender for my vote today but I'm usually wary when someone asks for a lynch.

Linki- TH I was reviewing your Mac case last night- and had gone back and was reading him from the point of Enrique doing the 180 on Matt/Nero and I just didn't really get the feeling that Mac was a Nero teammate. I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again. Good points on BR though. Time permitting I'll look over it/her posts in more detail.

Sorsha wrote:I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again.

I hope my case didn't put you to sleep I'd appreciate it if you did look again, it's possible I made a subtle point that you missed which could change your mind.

OMG are you claiming Alfred lynch him!

sig wrote:OMG are you claiming Alfred lynch him!

I don't understand sig. What are you seeing?

sig wrote:OMG are you claiming Alfred lynch him!

Are you role claiming Michael Caine now?

juliets wrote:

sig wrote:OMG are you claiming Alfred lynch him!

I don't understand sig. What are you seeing?

I'm not I was being sarcastic since there was that huge back and forth with him. Sorry I meant to add a sticky out tongue but forgot.

sig wrote:

juliets wrote:

sig wrote:OMG are you claiming Alfred lynch him!

I don't understand sig. What are you seeing?

I'm not I was being sarcastic since there was that huge back and forth with him. Sorry I meant to add a sticky out tongue but forgot.

Oh ok.

Turnip Head wrote:

Sorsha wrote:I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again.

I hope my case didn't put you to sleep I'd appreciate it if you did look again, it's possible I made a subtle point that you missed which could change your mind.

No, just tired.

I did just look through BR's posts though and in addition to the points you raised she also mentioned being suspicious of Dom a couple of times. Is there any reason that was left out of your case on her? I'd also like to hear some specific reasons from her why she's suspicious of Dom.

Sorsha wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Sorsha wrote:I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again.

I hope my case didn't put you to sleep I'd appreciate it if you did look again, it's possible I made a subtle point that you missed which could change your mind.

No, just tired.

I did just look through BR's posts though and in addition to the points you raised she also mentioned being suspicious of Dom a couple of times. Is there any reason that was left out of your case on her? I'd also like to hear some specific reasons from her why she's suspicious of Dom.

I guess I left it out because I don't know what to make of it, it could be genuine or it could not be. She said she was seeing civ Dom on Page 5 and then soon after that she changed her mind. She has given no specifics and hasn't made an effort to elaborate on her read.

SIG:

Sorsha wrote:Ok thanks guys.

I agree w/Enrique about it probably being mp, sig or sabie.

Sig- which one(s) do you think it most likely is?

As far as the Ra's/zebra thing. Hasn't MP been asking for lynch also? I'd say he's a top contender for my vote today but I'm usually wary when someone asks for a lynch.

Linki- TH I was reviewing your Mac case last night- and had gone back and was reading him from the point of Enrique doing the 180 on Matt/Nero and I just didn't really get the feeling that Mac was a Nero teammate. I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again. Good points on BR though. Time permitting I'll look over it/her posts in more detail.

Sorsha wrote:Ok thanks guys.

I agree w/Enrique about it probably being mp, sig or sabie.

Sig- which one(s) do you think it most likely is?

As far as the Ra's/zebra thing. Hasn't MP been asking for lynch also? I'd say he's a top contender for my vote today but I'm usually wary when someone asks for a lynch.

Linki- TH I was reviewing your Mac case last night- and had gone back and was reading him from the point of Enrique doing the 180 on Matt/Nero and I just didn't really get the feeling that Mac was a Nero teammate. I fell asleep while doing that though so I should probably go look again. Good points on BR though. Time permitting I'll look over it/her posts in more detail.

Well it wasn't me I can assure you of that.

Enrique, Turnip, DH, MP, sig, sabie, or dat Zeebs.

So I'd say we have three scenarios.
1. Mr. Freeze used both his blocks on the people above and stopped the kill
2. Mr Freeze used one of his blocks and hit the mafia, using the other to complete his own win con
3. Mr Freeze didn't use either of his blocks on the people above and instead searched for his own win con/wanted a mafia kill to further deplete the player pool.

Three would require someone else successfully blocking the kill, this could be a secret role or the other team blocked them.

Know I'm going to look at MP my theory is the Penguin targeted him.
MovingPictures07
3
DharmaHelper (13), Dom (15), Typhoony (22) 9%
One of these three are the Penguin only one is on the list above, there is then a 33% chance DH wasn't targeted by Mr. Freeze. So I'd rank him lower as a potential blocked.

Having said that there is still a chance DH was blocked by freeze I just think it is less likely then someone else. I believe Zebra was blocked by Freeze and if Freeze went with option two then either MP, TH, or Sabie.
Reading over the thread I see TH as being quite civvie, MP is an unknown right know. Sabie was widely inactive/lurking and voted for Matt something that in hindsight is quite scummy. SO if I had to pick two I'd say Zebra and Sabie are the most likely to be blocked.
Listed in most to least.
1. Zebra
2. Sabie She was online today yet didn't post in game we know she isn't silenced if she was blocked she'd know and might be trying to keep a low profile
3. MP,
4. TH
5. DH/Enrique This depends on my Penguin idea which is which.
6 Enrique/Sig
7 Sig/Enrique.


Thoughts on this everyone?

linki: Sorry sorsha it took longer then expected

@Sorsha why would I be one of the three he would freeze?

sig wrote:@Sorsha why would I be one of the three he would freeze?

Or zebra, I should add, but she's dead.

I meant out of those on the list, if freeze did choose from it. I guess we are really just speculating on who WE would choose if we were mr freeze. So I feel pretty much ok about Enrique, DH and TH (mostly) I don't think I'd have blocked them. I'd have picked whoever I was most suspicious of or not sure of. I'm not sure of you or sabie and I'm at least a little suspicious of mp.

I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.

Turnip Head wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I think sig and nero are both reasonable candidates and wouldn't actually mind seeing either of them flip. But, I would like it to be based on something more than DharmaHelper blatantly inviting lurkers to drive by vote whoever he says to.

MacDougall wrote:Sig and nero... Sig, the ultimate in mislynch meta and nero who I've never played with before. Both ping me for different reasons.

Sig - Well, I am seeing an unusually thorough sig. He's held together. Usually civ sig is a little more mealy mouthed lol. His responses to being put under threat here are a little alarming.
Nerolunar - There was the thing on day 1 where he tried to jump in on the Turnip Head suspicion and when TH growled at him he backed off all like "lol jks bra" and tbh that is arguably the most surface scummy thing that has occurred. Coupled with Matt wanting him lynched...

I think I'd endorse Nero being lynched over sig.

MacDougall wrote:Nero is a good lynch today imo. Y'all should just go watch some TV or something and wait for the outcome.

The timing of these posts made my opinion rather crucial for encouraging the avalanche of nero votes. I ain't no nero teammate. I endorsed his lynch over sig's and people listened to me.

I disagree that these posts show you encouraged an avalanche of votes on Nero. The first post is overtly discouraging that from happening. The third post comes after Nero already has a solid lead with 7 votes and you tell everyone to go home.


You also didn't respond to my bonus point about you.

The first post is overtly discouraging of allowing players to vote haphazardly without considering the facts. So as to not be a hypocrite I analysed the situation.

The second post when I declared he to be the better lynch out of he and sig he had 3 votes on him. You keep mentioning how the third post Matt had 7 votes. Well the first time I said it he had 3. To what end would I encourage votes on nero when he was still behind Matt? You are accusing me of bussing?

Turnip Head wrote:Thanks for taking my case seriously Mac but you didn't respond to what I believe are the most damning parts of it.

MacDougall wrote:I think sig and nero are both reasonable candidates and wouldn't actually mind seeing either of them flip. But, I would like it to be based on something more than DharmaHelper blatantly inviting lurkers to drive by vote whoever he says to.

As I said earlier DH's post was addressed specifically to Nero. You pay lip service to sig in the first sentence, but your second sentence shows that you were thinking specifically of Nero. And you had never mentioned a suspicion of sig before this point, though plenty others were so you could have chipped in. Your only mentions of sig before this are supportive of him. For you to call him a "reasonable candidate" at all, even if you ultimately ended up on the right side of it, is suspect.

How is it suspicious relative of me being on the same team as nero. If I was to be trying to cast doubt against sig at this point, why would I only do so tentatively and then end up telling everyone to lynch nero anyway? I had suspicions of sig, I just hadn't verbalised them at that point. I verbalised them in the post below.

MacDougall wrote:Sig and nero... Sig, the ultimate in mislynch meta and nero who I've never played with before. Both ping me for different reasons.

Sig - Well, I am seeing an unusually thorough sig. He's held together. Usually civ sig is a little more mealy mouthed lol. His responses to being put under threat here are a little alarming.
Nerolunar - There was the thing on day 1 where he tried to jump in on the Turnip Head suspicion and when TH growled at him he backed off all like "lol jks bra" and tbh that is arguably the most surface scummy thing that has occurred. Coupled with Matt wanting him lynched...

I think I'd endorse Nero being lynched over sig.

Again, it's weird that you never pursued Nero for what you call the most surface scummy thing that has occurred. Yes, you agreed with me by saying "Was weird huh" when I pointed it out, but you never pursued it further than that. For you then to call it the most surface scummy thing that has occurred feels like you're overplaying your hand a little by knowing that Nero is bad.

This is simply a case of me spending all the time between having observed that post and making this one, focused on other candidates. When the votes took all the candidates I had been focusing on off the table, I was able to think a little more about just how bad that post was.

MacDougall wrote:Yes, it is. My first suggestion nero should have been lynched over sig was before he surpassed you in votes I assure you.

Okay, but isn't this exactly the kind of thing a baddie would want to have on record so he could point back to it? The fact that you are so aware of this occurring leaves room for the interpretation that you did it intentionally.

You are suspicious of me for adequately defending myself? So you concur that I did this, yet in one of your points above here you overlook that fact to remind everyone that nero was safely in the lead. That's not very discerning of you.

Dom wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:BONUS POINT:

On Day 1 Mac made a big hooplah about me going "out of my way" to use the word "we" when referring to civilians. He kept attacking me throughout Night 1, and while I responded with as much patience and tact as I could, the dialogue eventually reached this point:

MacDougall wrote:I don't find your play shitty at all. I find it suspicious. I think that you have just been caught embellishing your opinion which makes me feel like you are mafia. I don't think it's a reflection on the quality of your play.

I am just trying to discover whether you are Mafia. I don't want to upset you. I'm trying to be tactful tbh.

I would clarify that Mac was not upsetting me in my very next post, but not before Mac snuck this in:

MacDougall wrote:It's funny, I never upset people when I case them when I am mafia. When I am town I drive people nuts. If you want some insight into my meta here it is hahaha.

Without even waiting to see if I had been upset by his behavior, he characterizes his play in this way. He went out of his way to say he was playing to his "town meta" without waiting to see from me if what he was saying was even true.

Go back and look at the discussion, it starts before this post and continues shortly thereafter. Mac got excited to make a point about his meta and couldn't wait to say it.

Damn.... that's a good point. Especially this bonus point.

Turnip Head, I intepreted your "sorry if you find my play shitty" as a sulky reaction. You say you weren't, upset... everything to that point made me think you were annoyed at best by my continued prodding.

Yes, I characterised my play that way because it always happens. How is me doing so alignment indicative. What is the baddie motivation? To remind people that I am playing to my civ meta? That is also a civ motivation. It's important for me as a civ for people to believe that I am a civ. That is not alignment indicative.

Cliffs:

I liked nero early in the game as a civ
I observed the post nero made and it did ping me
I focused on other targets, perhaps foolishly, until nero came into clear view
Using that original ping, I deduced he was the better candidate
I did/do have mild suspicions of sig, but I hadn't verbalised them... I bet most of you have had pings in this game you haven't verbalised

I thought you were upset TH
I didn't want you to be upset
I thought it was amusing to point out that civ Mac upsets people, scum Mac doesn't... Because it's true, not "playing to my meta"

I posted that nero was the better vote of the two well before it looked like nero was going to be lynched for certain, he wasn't even in the lead
There are players who actively campaigned in his defence, one of whom is now dead, far less leaps of logic need to be made to put them in a team together

Golden wrote:I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.

Top suspect for being Neros teammate?

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.

Top suspect for being Neros teammate?

Mine was Enrique, although he has made some good points against it, which I need to look into further.

I think it wasn't zebra.
I don't think it's mac either.
Not really seeing it as DH.
Matt is the most unlikely of all. I also feel pretty confident saying it isn't juliets.
MP is a possibility

I haven't really had time to do my own analysis, which I want to. It could be someone we aren't looking at.

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.

Top suspect for being Neros teammate?

Why no plural?

Golden wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.

Top suspect for being Neros teammate?

Mine was Enrique, although he has made some good points against it, which I need to look into further.

I think it wasn't zebra.
I don't think it's mac either.
Not really seeing it as DH.
Matt is the most unlikely of all. I also feel pretty confident saying it isn't juliets.
MP is a possibility

I haven't really had time to do my own analysis, which I want to. It could be someone we aren't looking at.

Would you buss your teammate on day 2 of their first game on this site?

Also, Mac, Matt and juliets aren't even on that list... Where do they come in? What about sig and Sabie? Sorry if I've missed where you explained it already.

Linki- I was asking specifically if Enrique was a top suspect as Neros teammate. I think Enrique is just one person.

MacDougall wrote:The second post when I declared he to be the better lynch out of he and sig he had 3 votes on him. You keep mentioning how the third post Matt had 7 votes. Well the first time I said it he had 3. To what end would I encourage votes on nero when he was still behind Matt? You are accusing me of bussing?

Nero had 7 votes in the third post, not Matt. There was no scenario where Matt was getting lynched in any of the 3 posts in questions, Enrique shot his own case down before any of it happened. I wouldn't call it bussing, more like distancing in the event it went south. If you defended him at that point and he got lynched because of DH's rallying call, would you not have looked scummy?

MacDougall wrote:You are suspicious of me for adequately defending myself? So you concur that I did this, yet in one of your points above here you overlook that fact to remind everyone that nero was safely in the lead. That's not very discerning of you.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying it's exactly the kind of thing a baddie would think to do so they could call back to it.

MacDougall wrote:There are players who actively campaigned in his defence, one of whom is now dead, far less leaps of logic need to be made to put them in a team together

Just because less logic has to be used to rationalize something does not make it true. I think Nero's teammates lie somewhere inbetween those who defended him and those who attacked him hard, which is why I'm currently looking at you.

But Mac howsabout you look at my BR case and/or read her ISO and tell me what you think.

sig wrote:

Enrique wrote:MP for how long has sig been your number one supect?

I'm guessing since the beginning of the day when someone hungered/forced it tell me was this your doing Enrique?

What do we think of Enrique really involving himself with both apparent curses?

Dom wrote:

sig wrote:

Enrique wrote:MP for how long has sig been your number one supect?

I'm guessing since the beginning of the day when someone hungered/forced it tell me was this your doing Enrique?

What do we think of Enrique really involving himself with both apparent curses?

Enrique is involving himself in pretty much everything.

Turnip Head wrote:

MacDougall wrote:The second post when I declared he to be the better lynch out of he and sig he had 3 votes on him. You keep mentioning how the third post Matt had 7 votes. Well the first time I said it he had 3. To what end would I encourage votes on nero when he was still behind Matt? You are accusing me of bussing?

Nero had 7 votes in the third post, not Matt. There was no scenario where Matt was getting lynched in any of the 3 posts in questions, Enrique shot his own case down before any of it happened. I wouldn't call it bussing, more like distancing in the event it went south. If you defended him at that point and he got lynched because of DH's rallying call, would you not have looked scummy?

MacDougall wrote:You are suspicious of me for adequately defending myself? So you concur that I did this, yet in one of your points above here you overlook that fact to remind everyone that nero was safely in the lead. That's not very discerning of you.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying it's exactly the kind of thing a baddie would think to do so they could call back to it.

MacDougall wrote:There are players who actively campaigned in his defence, one of whom is now dead, far less leaps of logic need to be made to put them in a team together

Just because less logic has to be used to rationalize something does not make it true. I think Nero's teammates lie somewhere inbetween those who defended him and those who attacked him hard, which is why I'm currently looking at you.

A baddie teammate would rally a teammate to be lynched over sig on day 2 for cred? Not my style TH and you know it. You were in my last scum chatzy.

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:I think there were lots of people who were talking of Enrique as a top suspect. If I was Mr Freeze last night, I would have blocked him.

The real problem here is assuming Mr Freeze chose who we asked him to choose at all. If Mr Freeze is, say, Enrique, TH is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is Mac, zebra is a likely choice. If Mr Freeze is MP, sig would be his number one choice and Mr Freeze could well be someone who isn't talking a lot and we don't really know for sure who they would feel most suspicious of.

Top suspect for being Neros teammate?

Mine was Enrique, although he has made some good points against it, which I need to look into further.

I think it wasn't zebra.
I don't think it's mac either.
Not really seeing it as DH.
Matt is the most unlikely of all. I also feel pretty confident saying it isn't juliets.
MP is a possibility

I haven't really had time to do my own analysis, which I want to. It could be someone we aren't looking at.

Would you buss your teammate on day 2 of their first game on this site?

Also, Mac, Matt and juliets aren't even on that list... Where do they come in? What about sig and Sabie? Sorry if I've missed where you explained it already.

Linki- I was asking specifically if Enrique was a top suspect as Neros teammate. I think Enrique is just one person.

Depends on the situation. If Nero was bussed, I doubt it was without the entire team feeling it was the best move.

Sig - I don't really have any feeling one way or the other on whether or not he would be Nero's teammate. Early on I was reading sig as civilian, but what bothers me most about him is that he has been very 'forgetful' in this game, his perspective on matters has seemingly changed without any warning and it makes me wonder if he is posting opinions that he doesn't hold and then forgetting.

Sabie, I can't remember who she replaced in for and I haven't really had any read on her at all. I've not met her before and don't have anything based on her contribution in the thread. I'm not even sure why people suggested Mr Freeze block her.

Turnip Head wrote:But Mac howsabout you look at my BR case and/or read her ISO and tell me what you think.

I will.

Sorsha - for clarity, here was my theory for why Enrique bussing is not far fetched to me.

Golden wrote:

sig wrote:Right know I'm mainly looking at DH, his interaction with Nero didn't look good at all. After him maybe MP.

@Golden why Enrique over DH/MP?

Here is what I see in Enrique.

1) Early day zero. I'm back to thinking my first instinct was correct. Enrique was trying to point everyone in the direction of the inmates at exclusion of the mafia. This is why he sussed me early for pointing out that the inmates weren't the mafia and that we needed to keep our mind on both. I let him talk down my first instinct, but I'm back to believing it is correct.

2) Yesterday's lynch, his turn around didn't feel entirely genuine to me. My suspicion as to why... Enrique is on team Nero. His team figures out a theory that Matt is Batman, and suddenly realises that if Matt is lynched and comes back Batman, Nero is probably going down right afterwards. So, the best option is to bus his own teammate, and get civ cred in the process. Others have already pointed out some posts by Enrique that appear deliberately designed to get cred.

3) Last night's TH case - Enrique realises that the TH/Matt thing may not be all it seems. He feels pissed that he has possibly been duped by TH, so with reckless disregard to the possibility Matt and TH are actually Batman and Alfred, he sets out to take TH down for hinting at Alfred. However, to me, the whole thing comes across not as a proper suspicion, well reasoned, because it is full of holes. To me, it comes across as Enrique being mad that TH duped him into bussing his own teammate.

I think Enrique is a teammate of Nero. I think Matt has that one correct.