The Syndicate

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:00 am**

R.I.P. (ROCK IN PEACE)

It was a small crowd but that didn't mean the Sugartown Cabaret didn't deserve Neil Hartley's best. He gave it his all and they loved him for it. He belted out some old standards as well as some fresh tunes like "I Can't Believe They Haven't Tried to Kill Me Again," "Old Lady's a Sex Machine," and "Why Do They Still Call it Toecutter's Gang if Toecutter is Dead?" He finished his set and they demanded more.

"Ladies an gents," Neil said with his usual swagger, Neil Hartley has poured his heart and soul into every performance this past week and he needs to give it a rest." Neil saw a sour-faced blonde-haired man sneering at him from the back of the crowd. Somehow he understood. "But I'd be remiss to skip out on one last encore."

It was only a three-song set but by God the man still found a way to bring the house down. He tore around the stage, engaging each patron separately. Like one of the all-time greats that he was, Neil Hartley made each and every person feel like the most important person in the room. There were chills. There were thrills. There was passion in his eyes and sweat glistening on his brow and manly chest.

When the final encore tune had ended, Neil Hartley had only just gotten a 'thank you' out to the standing ovation before him when the lights went out. A gunshot rang out in the darkness. People screamed in terror and scrambled for cover.

When the lights came back on, a great sadness descended on the Sugartown Cabaret. No one could believe their eyes at first, but there was Neil Hartley, dead on the stage. Fittingly, he died the way he lived- clutching a microphone and surrounded by adoring fans.

------------------------------------

NEIL HARTLEY/JAGGEDJIMMYJAY has been killed.

It is now Day 10.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:17 am**

shit, jay died.

Does this mean I need to actively start playing this game again?

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:35 am**

Dom, Quin: fight for my love.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:47 am**

Sloonei wrote:Dom, Quin: fight for my love.

I can't go any further than I have in pushing my Dom case. It's there in its entirety. I intend to spend today finding reasons to rule out it being you or LoRab.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:18 am**

I will avenge you JJJ.

I have started wondering if Quin/Dom is civ/civ misunderstanding and my suspicion of Sloonei has increased, tbh. Didn't want to mention it until night had ended. But, yeah.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:11 am**

Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:What is preventing you from voting Epignosis or LoRab?
Like I've said the biggest town mark I give to Epi is his big theory about Eloh not having active BTSC partners. This lead me to Glorfindel and it might work in theory for either Dom or Quin (or LoRab). He is still a suspect himself, but that's a thing I give him credit for.

LoRab has been a town read all game long with the exception of that one little hiccup on Day 3. I owe her a closer look here on Day 9 though.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:13 am**

Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:What is preventing you from voting Epignosis or LoRab?
Like I've said the biggest town mark I give to Epi is his big theory about Eloh not having active BTSC partners. This lead me to Glorfindel and it might work in theory for either Dom or Quin (or LoRab). He is still a suspect himself, but that's a thing I give him credit for.

LoRab has been a town read all game long with the exception of that one little hiccup on Day 3. I owe her a closer look here on Day 9 though.

This is a blantant lie. You were the first one to mention suspicion of me on day 1 or 2 (can't remember which day but it was before day 3), and have mentioned suspicion of me on pretty much every day since then...until it was pretty much accepted that I was civ, when you toned down the suspicion and went with this message of, oh it was just a blip. To say that you haven't suspected me is just dishonest. Or misremembering. Trying to figure out which.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:39 am**

You're a strong town read and have been for a long time. If that was a lie, it's not one worth telling.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:46 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:Again, the only motivation he would have to AGAIN detract from an almost sure baddie lynch is to try and end the game.
If it's the only conceivable motivation, why are you terrified that you're wrong?
Because I'm assuming you and Sloonei aren't tricking me.
What of LoRab? INH?

INH is almost certainly civ.

I don't think Epi and LoRab were teammate.s

LoRab wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
G-Man wrote:FYI- the night post may be late tonight. I am babysitting my niece and playing Mr. Mom for the baby on my own tonight while my sister and her husband have a date night and while my wife goes to a girls night. Me and two 1-year olds. Let that sink in and hopefully you'll understand what I'm up against.
You're outnumbered and outgunned there, G. Time to circle the wagons
Can I be real a second? For just a millisecond? We're all now singing Hamilton, right? Not just me?!

nice

Anyway, just think abotu the night kills in this game.
Did I really kill all of my suspects? All of them? No! i didn't! That is isnanity-- beyond WIFOM because the pattern broke as soon as my only suspect left was the only baddie left.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:54 pm**

I could sense a little bit of Epi influence in the kills and I wish I'd been able to recognize that sooner. The odd kill choices started right after he subbed in. I can't say what that means for you or Quin right now. I've got a clear schedule for a few hours, hopefully I can finally come up with something.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:24 pm**

Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:09 pm**

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].

You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:27 pm**

Day 6 seems like a good place to start. It's been harped on a bunch, but in my mind it was the most chaotic and, hopefully, revealing moment in the game overall. For my purposes, it starts with this post I made. It was a standard innocent prod for conversation, aimed at two players (Quin and Epi) to kick the day off. Epi responded by immediately throwing shade at me. He was bad. Quin and Dom also had responses, so let's look at them here:

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Epi, who you gonna vote for now that Mr Mac is dead?

Quin, who's your supposed 3 person scum team?
Glorfindel, Dom and Wilgy.

Mac didn't like the first two very much. I'm partial to your argument against Wilgy. They all need ISO's.

What's yours?

A direct response to the question I asked with a brief explanation and a follow-up question. Quin checks off all the Mafia 101 boxes in this post. That looks good. It's also an easy play for a baddie trying to appear town.
Dom's case against Quin started with the false claim that Mac (Night 5's NK victim) had been suspicious of Dom. I see the falsehood there, but I don't see it as a "lie" as Dom spun it. I look at it as a simple mistake. I think this post is mostly harmless and, much like I was not spinning anything against Epi at the time, I don't think Quin was trying to spin something unfair against Dom. He was stating a suspicion which happened to be predicated on a mistaken observation.

On the other hand, Dom's response to my question:

Dom wrote:Sloonei who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

Quinn: Citation needed that Mac didn't like me.

Aggressively comes after me for what he perceives to be unfair interrogation methods against Epi. The obvious piece of glaring suspicion to point out here is that it looks like Dom is defending Epi. I'd like to ask Dom if he has any thoughts on that now.

Dom calls Quin a "liar" in his very next post:

Dom wrote:Quinn is a liar.

That is strong language which I object to, as I already said above. Making a mistake or failing to acknowledge a falsehood does not constitute lying. A lie is deliberate. I got no such sense from Quin and he acknowledges he was wrong and explains the origin of his mistake promptly right here.

Dom wrote:Why would I kill both someone who thought I was civ and someone I was trying to get lynched?

Dom launched into the same self-defense he's using again today, all the way back on Day 6. This strikes me as overly-defensive in my re-read. This thought is not really connected to anything either Quin or I was saying at the time and it comes out appearing like an opportunistic and calculated defense that he just wanted to get out for the sake of doubt and argument.

This is where Dom's hyper-defensiveness starts to come out as an aggressive OMGUS against myself and Quin. Perhaps it's because we became naturally separated into two opposing sides here, but this entire interaction inclines me to read Quin as town and Dom as bad. Once again I can't ignore the similarities between his response with Epi's concurrent behavior. They're both turning slight or no suspicion at all into aggressive pursuit of the two players opposite them. I wonder if it's conceivable for two baddies to come out of the gate with the exact same strategy in a situation like this, whether intentional or not, or whether it's just a bit of a coincidence and Dom was simply responding unfavorably to what he thought was an unfair suspicion. Regardless, his reaction seems a bit overblown in retrospect.
I also can't ignore the hypocrisy he engaged in here. Quin is lying and "spouting BS" about him, but he is also accusing me of things that I never said or did ("that's not what you asked" and his later claim about my Glorfindel suspicion (once again he is defending a now-confirmed scum)).

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:No, I didn't know that the post you quoted even existed.
When did you replace in?

TBH, if you want to make a claim why not research it at all?

Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:That's not what you asked.

And you didn't answer my question(s).
I have a funny way of saying things.

Yes I did.
Did you?
Why expect Epi to have a next suspect to vote when you didn't name one if Glorf was suddenly dead?
I wanted to hear his thoughts. He gave them. I am satisfied with his response for now.

Who are you considering voting for?
You, Glorf, Quin, Lorab, and Scotty.

Casts a wide and vague net. I tend to believe that scum players always list at least one teammate when giving a list of reads like this.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Quin-- no.
I'm sure you wouldn't mind elaborating on your read, in that case.
Why?
I said what I feel is relevant. I didn't suspect you until Day 6. I didn't suspect Sloonei until Day 6. What elaborating is there to do?
Quin wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Quin-- no.
I'm sure you wouldn't mind elaborating on your read, in that case.
Actually, I'm voting for you until you do elaborate. This is the only game related post you've written to or about me prior to my post yesterday, and I'm not even sure about this one because I don't know which paragraph you were referring to:

Spoiler: show
Dom wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
LoRab wrote:@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.
Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?
Can you spell out what you mean here?
Elohcin said she thought a baddie would be replaced before a townie by priority, which she used against Quin since he replaced in first.

I wonder if Elohcin thought to say this because indiglo was the actual baddie replacement and she came second -- against Eloh's expectations.
Ah.

Lynch Indi/INH.
I'm not buying what you're selling.
This is non-sensical.

This is where Quin's case against Dom starts in earnest. Dom rejects it by calling it non-sensical, but I think it's pretty reasonable looking suspicion. Dom has apparently ignored Quin all game long and Quin calls him out on this sudden strong shift in his perspective. These things happen for townies, but that doesn't make it acceptable for Dom to dismiss the entire thing as "nonsense". I am trying to be objective about these two in this review, but at face value Quin just looks a lot better, a lot more level-headed and honest. I've had the sense all along that he is trying to read Dom here and I still get that sense. Dom is just lashing out and rejecting whatever is said against his agenda (by both Quin and myself). It is true that Quin was interpreting his own question backwards, but Dom's response still looks too strongly dismissive for my taste.

Dom wrote:I'm unlikely to vote for you-- but I've got my on you.

This is an interesting development that goes against the other things I've said. For a brief moment, it appears cooler heads have prevailed. Quin explains his point of view, they come to a better understanding, and Dom maintains his suspicion but loses the severity.
To be fair I can see an angle where Quin is bad and he realizes his attempts to cast shade on Dom has failed and now he has no choice but to back down. I can't really identify which is the case here, but I should at least acknowledge this possibility.

Not too long after that, however, he makes this post where he keeps up the Quin suspicion while also acknowledging the possibility that Quin was mistaken, and also presents his erroneous interpretation of my answer to his question from the beginning of the day. I wish I had not been so focused on Wilgy at this time or I would have followed up more strongly on this whole Dom thing. It looks bad that his case against Quin hinges on Quin's misunderstanding/spreading of false information regarding him, but then his case against me hinges on him doing the exact same thing. I get that a town Dom would not necessarily recognize this as hypocrisy, but it seems revealing in some way that this is going on here.

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:This was my answer to your question, Dom. Please point out the parts of it which you object to:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:Sloonei who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

if they die who are you going to vote for?

Quinn: Citation needed that Mac didn't like me.
I am currently voting for Glorfindel until further notice. I am also considering everyone else.
This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?

"In a way that is useful." I'd like to know what that means, Dom. If you're still reading this massive wall of text. Maybe I should mention in BIG COLORFUL LETTERS that I am asking you a question, Dom! And I'd like an answer, if you're capable. What were you hoping to get out of me here? On the one hand it seems you're just antagonizing me and trying to prove a point about my treatment of Epi ("why is Epi fully responsible..."), but in the previous sentence you suggest you are looking for specific game-relevant information out of me. Which is it? What was your motivation here?

After this, Dom goes on a mini crusade where he starts demanding I answer his question, but I am still unclear on why this was such a huge deal or what was unsatisfactory about my many responses. When I pointed out to him that "who are you gonna vote for" is just a routine question I ask people in this game, he swats it away by saying the context is different, and continues to go about demanding something out of me that is equal parts unclear and unfair. At the time I thought Dom was just flustered, but in retrospect he looks to simply be aggressively opposed to and stubbornly refusing anything that can be said against him. And I don't think that's a good look. I'm still not familiar with what past-scum Dom looks like, but I have seen plenty of scum performances that look like this from other players.

For the sake of cutting this post off and getting some thoughts into the thread, I'll leave it at this. If you don't feel like reading everything I just typed (and you certainly don't have to), my conclusion is this: Day 6 Dom looks like an over-defensive baddie who was unwilling to engage honestly with both Quin and myself. I left out his later accusations against Quin, but I think we're all familiar with them by now. My hope with this post was that I could gain a more neutral perspective of Quin and Dom, but I just came out of it feeling more strongly that Dom is bad and, therefore, Quin is good. I'm putting my vote on Dom, but this decision is by no means final.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:31 pm**

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.

What compelled you to feel more strongly about your suspicion of Dom yesterday than the case against Epi and his concession?

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:52 pm**

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
What compelled you to feel more strongly about your suspicion of Dom yesterday than the case against Epi and his concession?

I'll elaborate on this post:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.

Aside from the concession, the most suspicious things I found in Epi's posts were the teammate interactions he had with Dom. My Dom case is significantly more tangible. In respect to Epi's concession, I had my doubts as to his motivation. Firstly, I don't understand the motivation for either a civilian or mafia to throw the game at Lylo, because in either situation he's screwing over his teammates. Secondly, I didn't have Epi pegged as the kind of guy that would throw the game after being suspected. So when he did, I was confused. And that doubt kept me on Dom. If I'd known he was going through what he is it might have affected how I felt about his concession, but that's in hindsight.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:59 pm**

What interactions between Epi and Dom are you referencing? I'd be interested to see an interactive read from you on those two.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:05 pm**

Sloonei wrote:What interactions between Epi and Dom are you referencing? I'd be interested to see an interactive read from you on those two.

I posted about them in the posts going down from this post.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:09 pm**

They're also the ones you called opportunistic

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:13 pm**

Quin wrote:They're also the ones you called opportunistic

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:14 pm**

I noticed in one of the posts you pointed out that zebra had, at one point, placed Dom at the very top of her rainbow. Is this something that you necessarily find suspicious? That's a pretty strong connection for zebra to create if they're both bad.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:18 pm**

Sloonei wrote:I noticed in one of the posts you pointed out that zebra had, at one point, placed Dom at the very top of her rainbow. Is this something that you necessarily find suspicious? That's a pretty strong connection for zebra to create if they're both bad.

The reason that caught my attention was because their interactions beforehand were minimal. Dom's placement on that list was not at all reflective of the conversations they had. So, yes.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:38 pm**

Quin wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
Quin wrote:I notice that the conclusion you've drawn from this ISO is almost entirely specific to INH and a now-dead guy. It's also about your own opinion of INH as opposed to an evaluation of your read on motel room based on his INH related content. I think you wanted to make a point about INH but wanted to feign some sort of context behind it. I am concerned.
Again, my apologies if my post appeared that way, my friend. This is only my second attempt at this level of analysis (you may recall my first was last game in Romance of the Three Kingdoms after which I was promptly NK'd by MacDougall) and I guess I still have some work to do in honing that skill. To clarify, I found motel room's tone to be genuine throughout. I think the conclusions he draws are often logical and he has shown a capacity to be open to being proven wrong such as was his experience with LoRab. I think that also (to an extent) gives credence to his reasons for his multiple vote change at EoD on Day 2 that seemed to draw a number of suspicions from other players.

Further, my approach to this analysis was (I'd like to think) fairly organic. I selected Sloonei and motel room because they were on when I commenced that post. I had an open mind on MR when I started writing it and I'll admit, the deeper the theme of INH went, I suppose it hooked into my feelings and thoughts on that topic as well. I do still harbour suspicions of INH but I agree with you, that content wasn't particularly relèvent to the point I was trying to make in respect of MR and I should've probably omitted it.
This is insight I would have expected in your original post. I guess I appreciate it now, if less so. I think the rest of this post is overcompensation. Not sure how to read that.

This exchange looks genuine to me. If this is two teammates interacting with one another, they hid it very well.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:39 pm**

LoRab wrote:I will avenge you JJJ.

I have started wondering if Quin/Dom is civ/civ misunderstanding and my suspicion of Sloonei has increased, tbh. Didn't want to mention it until night had ended. But, yeah.

If LoRab is bad then she needed only come in and pick a side between Dom and myself. Pushing an additional suspect is unnecessary. I don't think LoRab is bad.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:42 pm**

Someone come in here and contradict me! The separation between Quin and Dom in my mind is growing too wide. I feel like I am overlooking something. My vote is staying on Dom unless something change my mind. I am open to have my mind changed.

I know LoRab said she's currently pursuing me as a suspect. Sure, fair, you're all invited to do that. But I am interested in Dom and Quin alone. Unless LoRab is bad (highly doubt it at this point) one of those two is confirmed to be bad, and I'd like to know which way other people lean between the two of them.
INH, any thoughts?

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:43 pm**

Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:I will avenge you JJJ.

I have started wondering if Quin/Dom is civ/civ misunderstanding and my suspicion of Sloonei has increased, tbh. Didn't want to mention it until night had ended. But, yeah.
If LoRab is bad then she needed only come in and pick a side between Dom and myself. Pushing an additional suspect is unnecessary. I don't think LoRab is bad.

Neither do I. Of course sometimes baddies in a lylo situation play the "open-minded and careful" card more completely than anyone else to trigger this exact thought. BUT, like we're both so fond of saying suddenly, I don't think LoRab is bad.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:49 pm**

Dom, your general thoughts would also be great right now. You've expressed some doubt that Quin is the last scum. If not him, then who is it? What are your thoughts on each of us right now?

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:49 pm**

Quin: What specific reasons are there for you to consider LoRab such a strong town read?

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:51 pm**

It probably goes without saying, but I'd love to hear whatever LoRab has to say about me. And Quin. And Dom.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:00 pm**

Sloonei wrote:Quin: What specific reasons are there for you to consider LoRab such a strong town read?

My discussion with Wilgy in regards to LoRab's associations with Eloh made me feel good about her, and her interactions with Dom support that. Obviously the latter rests on Dom being bad. I also think that most recent post was civ-minded.

I can probably elaborate on this further after I've done reads on you both.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:01 pm**

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Quin: What specific reasons are there for you to consider LoRab such a strong town read?
My discussion with Wilgy in regards to LoRab's associations with Eloh made me feel good about her, and her interactions with Dom support that. Obviously the latter rests on Dom being bad. I also think that most recent post was civ-minded.

I can probably elaborate on this further after I've done reads on you both.

I look forward to you doing that.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:07 pm**

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Quin: What specific reasons are there for you to consider LoRab such a strong town read?
My discussion with Wilgy in regards to LoRab's associations with Eloh made me feel good about her, and her interactions with Dom support that. Obviously the latter rests on Dom being bad. I also think that most recent post was civ-minded.

I can probably elaborate on this further after I've done reads on you both.
I look forward to you doing that.

You'll have to reward me after. I'm already cringing at the idea of reading through 20 pages of your posts, because I know that it's probably all meat.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:08 pm**

We're like 30 pages away from this being the most active side job thread btw. Let's do it.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:09 pm**

posts. Not pages.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:27 pm**

Sloonei wrote:You're a strong town read and have been for a long time. If that was a lie, it's not one worth telling.

You mention wanting to read me an awful lot for someone who thought of me as strong town for a long time, but I accept. It's the mafia paranoia talking. I've suspected you on and off this entire game, but the more I read your posts in retrospect, the more I think you are town.

On the other hand...

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].

Yes, yes I think you did. This is pure WIFOM. And you just earned my vote.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:04 pm**

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.

And why would I do that?
We basically got 2. I understand why a baddie would kill the one whose vote matters, but why would I, as a baddie, kill Jay?

Sloonei wrote: This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?

"In a way that is useful." I'd like to know what that means, Dom. If you're still reading this massive wall of text. Maybe I should mention in BIG COLORFUL LETTERS that I am asking you a question, Dom! And I'd like an answer, if you're capable. What were you hoping to get out of me here? On the one hand it seems you're just antagonizing me and trying to prove a point about my treatment of Epi ("why is Epi fully responsible..."), but in the previous sentence you suggest you are looking for specific game-relevant information out of me. Which is it? What was your motivation here?

After this, Dom goes on a mini crusade where he starts demanding I answer his question, but I am still unclear on why this was such a huge deal or what was unsatisfactory about my many responses. When I pointed out to him that "who are you gonna vote for" is just a routine question I ask people in this game, he swats it away by saying the context is different, and continues to go about demanding something out of me that is equal parts unclear and unfair. At the time I thought Dom was just flustered, but in retrospect he looks to simply be aggressively opposed to and stubbornly refusing anything that can be said against him. And I don't think that's a good look. I'm still not familiar with what past-scum Dom looks like, but I have seen plenty of scum performances that look like this from other players.

For the sake of cutting this post off and getting some thoughts into the thread, I'll leave it at this. If you don't feel like reading everything I just typed (and you certainly don't have to), my conclusion is this: Day 6 Dom looks like an over-defensive baddie who was unwilling to engage honestly with both Quin and myself. I left out his later accusations against Quin, but I think we're all familiar with them by now. My hope with this post was that I could gain a more neutral perspective of Quin and Dom, but I just came out of it feeling more strongly that Dom is bad and, therefore, Quin is good. I'm putting my vote on Dom, but this decision is by no means final.[/quote]
Sloonei, I have played a terrible game. I will admit to it. I have made plenty of mistakes. I have let out of game frustrations aggrevate me in this game. I have been wrong about just about everyone. I look bad. I know it.
But I'm not.

I really thought we settled these questions, but I'll go through this once more.

I kept pushing this because I didn't trust you at the time. I thought you might be trying to get Epig lynched because you saw low participation-- easy lynch. I was very wrong. I've been very wrong more than I've been very right in this game. I wanted to see if you could provide the same information Epig was providing you. You did not, in my opinion, do that. We have since agreed that there was some sort of misunderstanding.

Does that answer your question?

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
What compelled you to feel more strongly about your suspicion of Dom yesterday than the case against Epi and his concession?
I'll elaborate on this post:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.
Aside from the concession, the most suspicious things I found in Epi's posts were the teammate interactions he had with Dom. My Dom case is significantly more tangible. In respect to Epi's concession, I had my doubts as to his motivation. Firstly, I don't understand the motivation for either a civilian or mafia to throw the game at Lylo, because in either situation he's screwing over his teammates. Secondly, I didn't have Epi pegged as the kind of guy that would throw the game after being suspected. So when he did, I was confused. And that doubt kept me on Dom. If I'd known he was going through what he is it might have affected how I felt about his concession, but that's in hindsight.

Aside from him admitting he is bad???????
Like?????

Sloonei wrote:I noticed in one of the posts you pointed out that zebra had, at one point, placed Dom at the very top of her rainbow. Is this something that you necessarily find suspicious? That's a pretty strong connection for zebra to create if they're both bad.

Perhaps Zebra was buddying me. I think Zebra does not like how I helped lynch her in Star Wars and might do that. I don't know.

Sloonei wrote:Dom, your general thoughts would also be great right now. You've expressed some doubt that Quin is the last scum. If not him, then who is it? What are your thoughts on each of us right now?

At this point, if it's not him, it HAS to be you, but I don't see HOW it's you either.
So it HAS to be Quinn.

LoRab wrote:
Sloonei wrote:You're a strong town read and have been for a long time. If that was a lie, it's not one worth telling.
You mention wanting to read me an awful lot for someone who thought of me as strong town for a long time, but I accept. It's the mafia paranoia talking. I've suspected you on and off this entire game, but the more I read your posts in retrospect, the more I think you are town.

On the other hand...

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
Yes, yes I think you did. This is pure WIFOM. And you just earned my vote.

I'm asking you to analyze the Night Kills. Do you they make sense if I am bad? I don't think they do. Continually undercutting my own arguments and setting myself up for the position I'm currently in where everyone thinks I'm bad? Killing SVS and MP early on? Leaving YOU still alive at this point?

Is this really the baddie Dom you know, LoRab?

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:18 pm**

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
And why would I do that?
We basically got 2. I understand why a baddie would kill the one whose vote matters, but why would I, as a baddie, kill Jay?

Sloonei wrote: This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?
"In a way that is useful." I'd like to know what that means, Dom. If you're still reading this massive wall of text. Maybe I should mention in BIG COLORFUL LETTERS that I am asking you a question, Dom! And I'd like an answer, if you're capable. What were you hoping to get out of me here? On the one hand it seems you're just antagonizing me and trying to prove a point about my treatment of Epi ("why is Epi fully responsible..."), but in the previous sentence you suggest you are looking for specific game-relevant information out of me. Which is it? What was your motivation here?

After this, Dom goes on a mini crusade where he starts demanding I answer his question, but I am still unclear on why this was such a huge deal or what was unsatisfactory about my many responses. When I pointed out to him that "who are you gonna vote for" is just a routine question I ask people in this game, he swats it away by saying the context is different, and continues to go about demanding something out of me that is equal parts unclear and unfair. At the time I thought Dom was just flustered, but in retrospect he looks to simply be aggressively opposed to and stubbornly refusing anything that can be said against him. And I don't think that's a good look. I'm still not familiar with what past-scum Dom looks like, but I have seen plenty of scum performances that look like this from other players.

For the sake of cutting this post off and getting some thoughts into the thread, I'll leave it at this. If you don't feel like reading everything I just typed (and you certainly don't have to), my conclusion is this: Day 6 Dom looks like an over-defensive baddie who was unwilling to engage honestly with both Quin and myself. I left out his later accusations against Quin, but I think we're all familiar with them by now. My hope with this post was that I could gain a more neutral perspective of Quin and Dom, but I just came out of it feeling more strongly that Dom is bad and, therefore, Quin is good. I'm putting my vote on Dom, but this decision is by no means final.

Sloonei, I have played a terrible game. I will admit to it. I have made plenty of mistakes. I have let out of game frustrations aggrevate me in this game. I have been wrong about just about everyone. I look bad. I know it.
But I'm not.

I really thought we settled these questions, but I'll go through this once more.

I kept pushing this because I didn't trust you at the time. I thought you might be trying to get Epig lynched because you saw low participation-- easy lynch. I was very wrong. I've been very wrong more than I've been very right in this game. I wanted to see if you could provide the same information Epig was providing you. You did not, in my opinion, do that. We have since agreed that there was some sort of misunderstanding.

Does that answer your question?

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
What compelled you to feel more strongly about your suspicion of Dom yesterday than the case against Epi and his concession?
I'll elaborate on this post:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.
Aside from the concession, the most suspicious things I found in Epi's posts were the teammate interactions he had with Dom. My Dom case is significantly more tangible. In respect to Epi's concession, I had my doubts as to his motivation. Firstly, I don't understand the motivation for either a civilian or mafia to throw the game at Lylo, because in either situation he's screwing over his teammates. Secondly, I didn't have Epi pegged as the kind of guy that would throw the game after being suspected. So when he did, I was confused. And that doubt kept me on Dom. If I'd known he was going through what he is it might have affected how I felt about his concession, but that's in hindsight.

Aside from him admitting he is bad???????
Like?????

Sloonei wrote:I noticed in one of the posts you pointed out that zebra had, at one point, placed Dom at the very top of her rainbow. Is this something that you necessarily find suspicious? That's a pretty strong connection for zebra to create if they're both bad.

Perhaps Zebra was buddying me. I think Zebra does not like how I helped lynch her in Star Wars and might do that. I don't know.

Sloonei wrote:Dom, your general thoughts would also be great right now. You've expressed some doubt that Quin is the last scum. If not him, then who is it? What are your thoughts on each of us right now?

At this point, if it's not him, it HAS to be you, but I don't see HOW it's you either.
So it HAS to be Quinn.

LoRab wrote:
Sloonei wrote:You're a strong town read and have been for a long time. If that was a lie, it's not one worth telling.
You mention wanting to read me an awful lot for someone who thought of me as strong town for a long time, but I accept. It's the mafia paranoia talking. I've suspected you on and off this entire game, but the more I read your posts in retrospect, the more I think you are town.

On the other hand...

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
Yes, yes I think you did. This is pure WIFOM. And you just earned my vote.

I'm asking you to analyze the Night Kills. Do you they make sense if I am bad? I don't think they do. Continually undercutting my own arguments and setting myself up for the position I'm currently in where everyone thinks I'm bad? Killing SVS and MP early on? Leaving YOU still alive at this point?

Is this really the baddie Dom you know, LoRab?[/quote]

SVS can read you--totally makes sense to kill you. I read you worth shit, so makes sense to keep me alive. Overall, WTF kills are good strategy. So, yeah. And, also, WIFOM.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:19 pm**

*to kill her

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:22 pm**

SVS will tell you 'til the cows come home that I am her blind spot. That is the langauge she uses. That is simply not true.

WTF kills? This is essentially undercutting myself all game. Those kills put me in the position I am in.

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:52 pm**

....If you lynch me the game is over because the baddies have won. There will be no recourse unless the protector is still out there and can correctly protect someone tonight. Hear me out.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:18 am**

Dom wrote:....If you lynch me the game is over because the baddies have won. There will be no recourse unless the protector is still out there and can correctly protect someone tonight. Hear me out.

That math doesn't work.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:23 am**

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
And why would I do that?
We basically got 2. I understand why a baddie would kill the one whose vote matters, but why would I, as a baddie, kill Jay?

You just answered your own question. Plus, it's one less confirmed civilian on the lynch poll.

Sloonei wrote: This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?
"In a way that is useful." I'd like to know what that means, Dom. If you're still reading this massive wall of text. Maybe I should mention in BIG COLORFUL LETTERS that I am asking you a question, Dom! And I'd like an answer, if you're capable. What were you hoping to get out of me here? On the one hand it seems you're just antagonizing me and trying to prove a point about my treatment of Epi ("why is Epi fully responsible..."), but in the previous sentence you suggest you are looking for specific game-relevant information out of me. Which is it? What was your motivation here?

After this, Dom goes on a mini crusade where he starts demanding I answer his question, but I am still unclear on why this was such a huge deal or what was unsatisfactory about my many responses. When I pointed out to him that "who are you gonna vote for" is just a routine question I ask people in this game, he swats it away by saying the context is different, and continues to go about demanding something out of me that is equal parts unclear and unfair. At the time I thought Dom was just flustered, but in retrospect he looks to simply be aggressively opposed to and stubbornly refusing anything that can be said against him. And I don't think that's a good look. I'm still not familiar with what past-scum Dom looks like, but I have seen plenty of scum performances that look like this from other players.

For the sake of cutting this post off and getting some thoughts into the thread, I'll leave it at this. If you don't feel like reading everything I just typed (and you certainly don't have to), my conclusion is this: Day 6 Dom looks like an over-defensive baddie who was unwilling to engage honestly with both Quin and myself. I left out his later accusations against Quin, but I think we're all familiar with them by now. My hope with this post was that I could gain a more neutral perspective of Quin and Dom, but I just came out of it feeling more strongly that Dom is bad and, therefore, Quin is good. I'm putting my vote on Dom, but this decision is by no means final.

Sloonei, I have played a terrible game. I will admit to it. I have made plenty of mistakes. I have let out of game frustrations aggrevate me in this game. I have been wrong about just about everyone. I look bad. I know it.
But I'm not.

I really thought we settled these questions, but I'll go through this once more.

I kept pushing this because I didn't trust you at the time. I thought you might be trying to get Epig lynched because you saw low participation-- easy lynch. I was very wrong. I've been very wrong more than I've been very right in this game. I wanted to see if you could provide the same information Epig was providing you. You did not, in my opinion, do that. We have since agreed that there was some sort of misunderstanding.

Does that answer your question?

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
What compelled you to feel more strongly about your suspicion of Dom yesterday than the case against Epi and his concession?
I'll elaborate on this post:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.
Aside from the concession, the most suspicious things I found in Epi's posts were the teammate interactions he had with Dom. My Dom case is significantly more tangible. In respect to Epi's concession, I had my doubts as to his motivation. Firstly, I don't understand the motivation for either a civilian or mafia to throw the game at Lylo, because in either situation he's screwing over his teammates. Secondly, I didn't have Epi pegged as the kind of guy that would throw the game after being suspected. So when he did, I was confused. And that doubt kept me on Dom. If I'd known he was going through what he is it might have affected how I felt about his concession, but that's in hindsight.

Aside from him admitting he is bad???????
Like?????

DId you read that post?

Sloonei wrote:I noticed in one of the posts you pointed out that zebra had, at one point, placed Dom at the very top of her rainbow. Is this something that you necessarily find suspicious? That's a pretty strong connection for zebra to create if they're both bad.

Perhaps Zebra was buddying me. I think Zebra does not like how I helped lynch her in Star Wars and might do that. I don't know.

Sloonei wrote:Dom, your general thoughts would also be great right now. You've expressed some doubt that Quin is the last scum. If not him, then who is it? What are your thoughts on each of us right now?

At this point, if it's not him, it HAS to be you, but I don't see HOW it's you either.
So it HAS to be Quinn.

LoRab wrote:
Sloonei wrote:You're a strong town read and have been for a long time. If that was a lie, it's not one worth telling.
You mention wanting to read me an awful lot for someone who thought of me as strong town for a long time, but I accept. It's the mafia paranoia talking. I've suspected you on and off this entire game, but the more I read your posts in retrospect, the more I think you are town.

On the other hand...

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
Yes, yes I think you did. This is pure WIFOM. And you just earned my vote.

I'm asking you to analyze the Night Kills. Do you they make sense if I am bad? I don't think they do. Continually undercutting my own arguments and setting myself up for the position I'm currently in where everyone thinks I'm bad? Killing SVS and MP early on? Leaving YOU still alive at this point?

Is this really the baddie Dom you know, LoRab?[/quote]

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:24 am**

Why not?
You lynch me, then there are
3 civvies
1 baddie
One is night killed.

2 civvies
1 baddie
One of those civvies' votes don't count. Tied lynch. No lynch. Night kill.
1 civvie.
1 baddie.
And that civvie's vote doesn't count.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:25 am**

I did read that post. It's you bullshititng your way into justifying your vote on me rather than Epig.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:28 am**

@Dom: That's making a lot of assumptions about successful lynches and night kills.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:45 am**

LoRab wrote:
Sloonei wrote:You're a strong town read and have been for a long time. If that was a lie, it's not one worth telling.
You mention wanting to read me an awful lot for someone who thought of me as strong town for a long time, but I accept. It's the mafia paranoia talking. I've suspected you on and off this entire game, but the more I read your posts in retrospect, the more I think you are town.

On the other hand...

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
Yes, yes I think you did. This is pure WIFOM. And you just earned my vote.

If you're able could you at least go through some of the reasons you have suspected me at times?

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:47 am**

Dom wrote:Why not?
You lynch me, then there are
3 civvies
1 baddie
One is night killed.

2 civvies
1 baddie
One of those civvies' votes don't count. Tied lynch. No lynch. Night kill.
1 civvie.
1 baddie.
And that civvie's vote doesn't count.

INH can't vote.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:49 am**

You seem to have acknowledged that, but the math does not check out. I am mostly interested in your use of this defense tactic. I am not sure if it is sincere or just desperation scum scrambling to save yourself.

LoRab and INH, what are your thoughts on Quin?

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:53 am**

We obviously are not allowed to talk about our own roles in this game, but there's nothing preventing us from acknowledging and speculating about the roles that we know to be remaining in the game. Anyone got legal role-related theories to share? This is lylo, so all cards should be on the table.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:54 am**

I'll be at work when the deadline roles around so I need to be fully confident in my vote by tomorrow afternoon.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:56 am**

LoRab wrote:And, Elo, well played. You played the evil role well. I'm sorry personally that I figured out that you were bad and had to go after you--just like you were playing your evil role, I'm playing my civ role. And that role is to kill all the bad people.

How does everyone feel about this? It's a weird sort of apology that I'm reading as genuine. I think it's well elaborated to the point where if it were a bus I think it would be better suited to BTSC chat.

The Syndicate

MAD MAX: GAME OVER

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