[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[DrWilgy]

Mac, Matt, Fuzz and Floyd, who did you target last night?

We had a fail kill and no psycho killer. Chances are one of y'all intervined, possibly in both, and y'all should know how. JJJ you should know as well.

I will explain everything as soon as I'm back from the renaissance festival.

JJJ, no beef, got much love for ya.

[MacDougall]

Don't you have a townread on MacDougall, Jay? Why is he not on that list?

Reads change. Fools stick to their day 2 reads. What a bizarre and naive question to ask.

Linki: would I not be info dumping?

[Strawhenge]

BLACK ROCK

I disagree with half of your iso on her, but the other half is dang convincing. Especially wert Roxy.

Please tell me about your points of disagreement.

Sure.

1. BR being snarky. Someone being snarky on the internet? Gasp! I'm sorry for that. But you see my point?

2. BR's stance on Floyd. I don't really see her comments about Floyd being either for or against him. Just seems like she had a different interpretation of Floyd's behavior. In fact, I tend to agree with her that it's possible. Hypothesis: If Floyd is scum, that means he has BTSC with scum. Floyd's communication with them might have given them the impression that he'd be better of silent; maybe he showed a lack of understanding of how the game worked and they were like, Whoa whoa whoa, maybe keep it low-pro, bro.

I guess I'm just saying BR's interpretation is as plausible as Matt's.

3. BR's stance on Epi wert LC. I don't think this outright paints BR as suspicious to think that Epi, who is normally suspicious of LC, was suddenly at LC's defense. Wouldn't it be weird back in RYMville if aether and sleepy had each other's backs?

That's pretty much it. I don't think they exonerate BR whatsoever, but those are the posts where I go all, Huh. I guess I just don't see it.

As I said, the Roxy stuff is pretty convincing. Focusing on the SK as a scum makes sense.

...Which, uh.... Anyone remember when Mac called for an entire day to focus on SK-hunting?

[MacDougall]

It should be rather obvious who I would target Wilgy...

[DrWilgy]

Does that count? As far as I'm concerned you could be lying.

You stating who you targeted is not 100% truth. Nor is it revealed by any role powers, simply actions that happened over tge course of the night. MODS HELP.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Reads change.

Why do you think this has happened in this case?

[MacDougall]

Sure I did do that. I thought we had the potential to have three dead townies last night. Looks like some rocks preneted a massacre.

Linki: probably the weight of other people's opinions and a wavering in your confidence.

[MacDougall]

* prevented

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Revealing night targets is infodumping. Any claim in the thread can be doubted to some degree, but that's beside the point. Information from outside the thread should not find its way into the thread.

[MacDougall]

I am blinking in morse code.

[Tangrowth]

Please do not discuss anything about night targets or actions in the thread. Thanks folks!

[DrWilgy]

Ugh... There goes that play. I invested so much into that too...

[DrWilgy]

Sorry MP. I'm still not used to infodump rules. I really didn't mean anythin by it.

[MacDougall]

I was just saying I am hungry in morse code.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Linki: probably the weight of other people's opinions and a wavering in your confidence.

What if it's something else?

[MacDougall]

Linki: probably the weight of other people's opinions and a wavering in your confidence.

What if it's something else?

Could not possibly be.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Could not possibly be.

Wrong answer.

MACDOUGALL

[MacDougall]

Could not possibly be.

Wrong answer.

MACDOUGALL

Uhh what the fuck. There is no right answer then. You are a hack.

[MacDougall]

Enjoy your mislynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Could not possibly be.

Wrong answer.

MACDOUGALL

Uhh what the fuck. There is no right answer then. You are a hack.

Yeah I'm still reading TownDougall here. Shrug.

BLACK ROCK

[Strawhenge]

JJJ did you see the link, though, that I put at the end of the thing I did that you asked me for? The thing there?

What do you think of that, wert focusing on SK?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ did you see the link, though, that I put at the end of the thing I did that you asked me for? The thing there?

What do you think of that, wert focusing on SK?

I don't think a SK focus is automatically a problem. At least with Mac, there's plenty of content preceding his SK hunt in which he seemed to be working on finding the mafia team. For BR, it's a pretty limited ISO for mafia hunting which meant to me that the SK focus (specifically the Roxy as SK focus) was of heightened significance to her compared to the average player. It's the only player in the game that the mafia can genuinely hunt for.

To be honest, the phase you're referring to featured too much SK conversation in general. Mac certainly drove that and I can understand him catching flak for it -- but numerous other players seemed willing to spend a ton of time on it alongside him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Straw, can you talk to me about that one point I made about bcornett that I felt was important? It should be pretty recent in my post history.

[Strawhenge]

Straw, can you talk to me about that one point I made about bcornett that I felt was important? It should be pretty recent in my post history.

I don't think he was trying to fudge facts; I remember that post from when I ISO'd him, and I read it as he was immersed in catching up and didn't read things closely enough.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I compiled more vote data, but this list is all I had time to color code:
This is all the players that have voted for a confirmed civ, or neutral (assuming mafia aren't night killing their own of course):

What does everyone think of this? I would really like feedback on this one.

Keep forgetting to give feedback on this. It's a nice compilation, and now it can be updated to account for the espers flip.

Before I talk about it, can you explain how the color coding works here?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Straw, can you talk to me about that one point I made about bcornett that I felt was important? It should be pretty recent in my post history.

I don't think he was trying to fudge facts; I remember that post from when I ISO'd him, and I read it as he was immersed in catching up and didn't read things closely enough.

So you agree with me that it makes him appear town?

[Strawhenge]

Maybe not 'makes him appear town,' so to speak, but I don't think it makes him scummy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Maybe not 'makes him appear town,' so to speak, but I don't think it makes him scummy.

Do you think it's possible for a mafia bcornett24 (on LC's team) to assert Golden bussed LC without it being an intentional fudging of the facts?

[DrWilgy]

I don't have much time until my phone dies. Each vote amount increased the red. Most red means most common civvie voter.

I have alot to explain, but the summary is that I was trying to keep myself alive until the play I wanted to make today. I'm kinda embarrassed that it didn't go through as planned.

Vote registered for Mac.

The renaissance festival is a blast. I already got a highfive from a random person who apparently liked my style. She then instructed me to "fuck bitches get money."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't have much time until my phone dies. Each vote amount increased the red. Most red means most common civvie voter.

The thing I'm taking away from it right now is the order of the votes more than the number of them. There seems to be some consistency about when players have made their errant votes. For example, bcornett and Choutas both appear to have voted relatively early, while Diiny voted late (among people in the orange pile). Mafia can obviously vote whenever they must, but it is at least tougher to manipulate a lynch earlier than it is later.

I'll have to review the tallies thoroughly when time permits to get more from it.

[TheFloyd73]

I'm back from my trip

[Strawhenge]

Maybe not 'makes him appear town,' so to speak, but I don't think it makes him scummy.

Do you think it's possible for a mafia bcornett24 (on LC's team) to assert Golden bussed LC without it being an intentional fudging of the facts?

I think that could be a possibility, yes. If he's scum, I don't think that's the post to lynch him on.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Maybe not 'makes him appear town,' so to speak, but I don't think it makes him scummy.

Do you think it's possible for a mafia bcornett24 (on LC's team) to assert Golden bussed LC without it being an intentional fudging of the facts?

I think that could be a possibility, yes. If he's scum, I don't think that's the post to lynch him on.

This is my confusion: if Brian is scum, and is LC's scum partner, and asserted that Golden bussed LC, and was being genuine, then that means he thought Golden was on his team.

How can that be?

[Epignosis]

I don't think it's fair to say I am not saying anything else russ. I have pointed out a possible other connection, to BR but I'd rather make sure she is bad first. I also asked about the golden/Bullz thing. It doesn't even seem like you are reading my posts to know what you are talking about.

I'm reading your posts. It's just really hard for me to take you seriously. You have exactly one point to make so far in the game since you replaced in. Anyone who disagrees with you, you immediately attack with accusations of being bad and also with jabs about not playing right or not paying attention to you. I am reading your posts, as I'll show below, but you're continually playing the "Poor me, nobody reads my posts or says hi or follows my proposed lynch trains! You all are dumbdumbs and you don't play mafia my way, which is the only right way! WAAAAH! LOVE MEEEEEEE!" card.

Here's what you can do to make me feel better:

1)offer one, single, thread-supported read on any player in the entire game that isn't based on how that player feels about you, Roxy, or BR.

2) Be more mature. Stop saying that people are playing wrong or not reading you just because they don't agree with you. You haven't given us any good reason whatsoever to agree with you, and even if you had mafia is a game based on observation, instinct, and guesswork. Reading you =/= coming to all the same conclusions with you, but you're acting like it does.

I'm not sure what Russ is expecting out of my post wise and it's a bit unfair as he isn't holding himself or anyone else to the same criteria. He is talking about mostly the same people as I am,and not making mention of the vast majority of the players, but I'm tunnelling. It honestly just feels like he is reiterating what others already said

My apologies. I reread all 25 of your posts. You have mentioned Epi, Elo, and JJJ once each, none of which I realized. To be fair to me, you offered unsupported, weak civ reads of Elo and JJJ, and you said one specific thing Epi did, did not make him look suspicious to you. A Ctrl+F of "Roxy" in your post history gives 33 hits, and searching "BR" and "Black Rock" yields a combined 26.

By contrast, I've talked about seaside, espers (RIP, by the way. Looks like I was wrong about you.), bcornett, BR, Epi, and you, all since Night 5 started. What standard do I have for you that I'm not holding others to?


I was going to vote BR now that espers is dead, but fingersplints has convinced me not to. I still might, if I find at day's end that my own reasons are good enough to. Until fingers does the 2 things I pointed out above, I will be ignoring anything she says. It seems to bother her, so maybe it'll induce her to play for real.

This is horseshit. Black Rock and Russ are teammates.

[Epignosis]

Total waste, espers. You could have at least tried to bait a kill.

You're right. There's absolutely no way that he could have survived a kill at all.

Epignosis

??

I mean, I find Epi suspicious of the next guy. Could you please clarify what the above exchange means, though?

And Straw, why are you suddenly back and posting a bunch? Mind reminding me why you were gone?

Taking the rest of the night off. See you folks tomorrow.

Please lynch Black Rock and Russtifinko.

[Matt]

HOSTS - If the Mafia or Serial Killer is prevented from making a kill for whatever reason, do you still show their kill attempt in the Night Post? If the Mafia or Serial Killer simply don't make an attempt, do you completely ignore them in the Night Post?

Thank you

[Epignosis]

MacDougall: Talk about Russtifinko.

Go.

[Matt]

REPOSTING cuz I like this post

Here's something I worked on.

This is an update of the LC-players relations. I forgot to take out espers before uploading the picture. Any further mention of espers in the text is also void, but I'm too tired right now to proofread and edit anymore.

http://s15.postimg.org/v31yglvgr/Untitled.png

A few preliminary steps in developing my research:

TOPIC A

The vote tallies right now are an insane and unhelpful chaos for any proper, traditional hunt:

-- on D1, LC, since then confirmed mafia, received only one vote (incidentally, a player, Zebra, that the mafia also disposed two Nights later); that means he had six teammates who went places. Main wagon and mislynch was BWT and that wagon is currently still ripe with alive players (b24, Diiny, Wilgy, Matt, sig; meanwhile only HB and Sorsha are dead), so some of them might still be there, but others could easily have also scattered further.

-- on D2, we have our LC lynchers (out of which so far not a single player has received mafia retribution). Here's the more disturbing aspect: the second wagon (b24) voters have all but one (Epi) been removed from the game, with not a single LC teammate located so far there; the rest of the votes are also worryingly scattered

-- it gets worse during our three-Day mislynch fest:
D3 Golden was lynched and he almost certainly civ. Second wagons was a now-confirmed civ (Sorsha) and me, and I happen to also be civ. Also a smaller wagon on Russ, plus a few remaining scattered votes.
D4 Sorsha was lynched, flipped civ. Second wagon flipped civ D5. Five remaining votes were scattered. Five!
D5 the player with the most visible votes didn't get lynched and the second wagon, manipulation notwithstanding, got actually lynched and flipped civ

CONCLUSION A

Considering that for the past three Days we've had not only mislynches with our top wagons, but also second wagons that later also flipped civs, I believe now is the best time to consider a reevaluation on how and what to hunt for during subsequent phases. Given this D3-D5 bad trend and lack of results, I feel we'll be on a road to nowhere in no time, if the next lynches will keep failing this way. Keep in mind that the mafia can well control such a tendency, if they didn't already do so during the previous Days.

TOPIC B

I find it also telling that the "LC defenders must be baddies" path hasn't led to great results, in pretty much the same way: mislynch after mislynch since LC got caught, the next mislynch always having been an alternative wagon the previous Day. Feels like lynching in circles.

From the stats I pulled, the players left alive who have defended or felt positive about LC are:

-- Roxy
-- Epignosis
-- moi

Gone are:

-- FZ, killed by the Psycho Killer, but I'm personally feeling she was civ
-- Golden, partly suspected for defending and trying to save LC from lynch, before gathering votes and putting into motion his role plan (including asking to be lynched), which contributed even more to his death
-- Sorsha, partly suspected for crass defending of LC, until more suss piled up on her and got her lynched D5
-- Devin, who has a moment of picking up LC's suspicion, then suddenly dropping it and never saying much more about LC until after his death

CONCLUSION B

So with two more players (again, I'm not bad) left to survey using this angle and, worst case (at best, the SK was inspired to take out two mafia during N1 and N3; at worst, no mafia was touched so far), six mafias remaining, it's clear to me we need to start looking a different angles as well, including even the most extreme ones: the potential bussers.

TOPIC C

Here's what we know about LC:

-- he's a competent, dangerous, smart, possibly strategic, "con"ning player when in mafia skin
-- he created a confirmed fake bullsuit case on bea
-- he flipped onto a sig case, calling it his "real" case; it atracted moderate attention, including catching in a web the later confirmed-civ BWT, whose sig vote garnered bad vibes and contributed to his lynch; whether the sig case is also fake bullsuit (in the sense that he tried to frame a second civilian, after bea) or a moderate sussing on a teammate attempt, enough however not to catch fire completely, still remains to be seen; as for the BWT mislynch, it's notable that he distanced from this; if it's mostly a mafia work of art, his signature is not on it, because he didn't endorse it
-- he added in desperate self-preservation a vote on b24 at the end of D2, a player which he didn't address at all during the game. Once again, if the b24 wagon is a mafia work, his signature is not on it, because he didn't endorse it, nor did he interact with any of the b24 sussers
-- someone also mentioned that LC could have well orchestrated everything he did, in order to get himself out of the game (due to conflicts with starting to run AWR soon)

Given all these fabrications, conning, distancing from main lynches or wagons and such, what does your gut tell:
a) did LC's flip leave a lot of his teammates exposed (which, so far, we have made no real progress on with the following lynches); or
b) either LC in a careful strategy or his teammates on their own, through careful steps, took measures that they don't look exposed following LC's flip

Combine A + B + C and, for me at least, you get all the signs that the moment is just right to reevaluate things at a profound level and even consider the extremes of the interactions with LC: either his purest defenders, either the players who were most responsive to question, challenge and ultimately vote him.
Without further ado, and aware of the risks of simply being called mad for going this path, this is exactly what I'll do.

Hear my voice, hear my voice, it's saying something and I hope you're concentrated.

================================

Let's go back to D1. One single vote for LC (from a civ, Zebra; I say civ because I doubt the mafia had any incentive to go cannibal on a teammate on N3 and he was obviously not the SK) and yet I have four players who strongly questioned his gameplay during that very Day:

Re: sig, I'd only be repeating myself. He made a consistent effort in suspecting LC (partly in reaction to what LC himself was placing on him), but then voted BWT for arguments others made and by calling him his most "suspicious player" (with a self-defense motivation added there as well)
Sig returned to his LC speech and gave his vote on him during D2; since then he's put his votes on two mislynches and missed a vote.
Trajectory post LC lynch:
> slight suss on JJJ and Choutas
> strong suspicion on Sorsha (for arguments others made)
> no read on case on Epig
> not sure of Sorsha anymore, suspects Golden and seaside for links to LC
> more and more against Sorsha lynch
> votes Golden
> votes me (for arguments others made)
> finds me genuine in defending, jumps back on Golden (partly agreeing with Wilgy's analysis)
> D4 stays clear of Sorsha wagon, brings back Choutas suss
> considers voting Devin (no previous mention of him!)
> misses vote
> votes Choutas (recurring suss)
> willing to vote MacDougall (when did he ever suspect him before?)
> leans on an Epi vote (for SK arguments MacDougall brought)
> disapproves of espers wagon and votes Devin (for "suspicious expressed in the past"... uh, which ones?)

Complete scrambled of a game, if you ask me.

I had Mac written down as having went hard on LC right from the start and his suss post indeed contains strong language like LC being "tactical, mindful, nervous first major action", but upon revisit it's actually a suspicion in a post in which he goes for Diiny being "the worst" and votes for him, too.
Trajectory afterwards is surprisingly lighthearted:
> picks on rey for making a "hello" contribution
> picks on seaside's absurd townread of Floyd
> not very phased by llama's suss on him being hostile - maybe something to keep in mind about Llama, if Mac flip mafia
> criticises FZ's disapproval of the Sig and Diiny wagons (not using her own justifications)
> brings up theory on Flowers and brings up the idea that lurkers should be lynched; switches vote to rey
DAY ENDS
> N1, engages in rebuttals with LC over his Flower theories
> votes FZ for her case against Epig
> calls for seaside to be dealt with, either as potential mafia or as liability to the civ game, whilst undecided himself
> insists on seaside tactic in reply to Sorsha, whilst also fending off her idea that LC made good points about him (presumably in the Flowers' conversation) and that he didn't challenge LC's thoughts
> more defending against his seaside tactic looking bad
> votes llama, gut read he needs to elaborate, no read on B24, plus suddenly a sign of approval for the LC lynch
> "I have been very wary of LC from the word go", disapproves of Syndicateers' angle that LC wouldn't make such obvious conning
> feeling very good about keeping vote on Llama after Llama's Diiny reasoning
DAYS ENDS "oh look at that the guy who seemed scum was scum and I told you the meta angle was bullsuit"

So for a player bragging at the end of LC's lynch that he always picked up on LC's shtick being scummy and that he had the precise right angle on him, whilst others were contemplating wifom and meta, his entire trajectory is pretty waffles and also never ever putting his stamp on LC. Given this, the timing of his "I've been wary of LC from the word go" - early on, LC wagon starting to brew, but still a comfy moment, with the votes heavily spreaded - is starting to sound a bit cooked.

Further trajectory and votes during the next Days aren't too supertown either. Mislynches Golden and Sorsha. The main angles he approached don't sound good to my ears, if you've paid attention to my Topic B. Here's a sort of summary of his next moves:
> LC defenders must be scum because Occam Razor. Singles out Roxy alongside FZ, Epi, Sorsha.
> Stays pretty much away from JJJ/Golden spat, but turns on Golden once he insists on lynching Sorsha despite having a town read on her
> Suddenly disapproves of Matt's own reasons to lynch Sorsha.
> Split between Sorsha and Golden; would rather see Sorhsa lynched to get a sense of Matt
> Doesn't hop aboard my lynch wagon, but afterwards starts entertaining the idea slightly; goes from pointing out to JJJ about my TH lyrics to suspecting me of using them as the SK. W.T.F.
DAY ENDS. His vote never left Golden, early on.
> "We should lynch Sorsha because she didn't get lynched today (and we can't lynch Rico)". Votes Sorsha. Nuff said.
> Adds arguments that lynching Sorsha would break the game open any way she flips. "Let's take the odds to a civ lynch for future knowledge", guys.
> Again gets discontent with Matt voting Sorsha, a player that he previous asked the thread to lynch, no matter what.
> Flips to Matt, including the Matt Lynch Party invitation.
> Comfy again with Sorsha lynch after seeing Devin lynch catching up.
DAY ENDS. "Oh noes"

I can't believe my senses were so numb. Everything is clear now. MacDougall is le baddie.

motel room. Also quick to tell that LC's case on bea comes off as too strong, but this is in reply to llama's questionnaire on whether bea reacted in a genuine way to LC's vote and case on her.
Starts picking on several things sig said afterwards. Quite insistent on it.
Invites, however, at one point sig to join him on a LC wagon. Ironically, neither ever do.
Calls out LC's flip on sig as "pressured and gross, backpedalling".
DAY ENDS. His vote remains on sig from early banter with him. Not only did he reacted strongly to LC's case and counter-case, along the way, but also invited to a LC wagon, yet nothing from this made him put the stamp on LC.
Incresingly suspicious of every move by LC. Votes him.
Switches to Choutas (for his unexplained vote on LC?). Also considers JJJ lynch.
Goes back to LC, picking him over b24.
DAY ENDS.

Well if LC clearly instructed his teammates to take a stance against him, to the point of bussing when things get totally serious, it's simply unnerving. Don't know what to make of MR. His LC sussing looks so on point, but his D1 flipping is, to put it in his words, "gross" and the vote switches during D2 feel a bit as if he was testing the waters for alternatives or for distancing, but then returned to LC, almost as if shit got serious and he was aware he previously sussed LC enough not to do a stupid move and get out of orbit.

Onwards
> First thought of D3 is that people who defended LC's meta are most suspicious: Sorsha and Epi. Goes with Epi.
> Still wants to hear from Choutas' LC vote.
> Sig is suddenly good.
> JJJ lynch being considered no more.
> Also brings an LC-bea link theory.
DAY ENDS. His vote stayed on Epi all along.
> D4 votes Sorsha for placeholder, oh oh!
> Talks other topics, including Mac potentially bandwagoning on Sorsha.
DAY ENDS. His vote remained on Sorsha.

It's 5am and I don't want to die from exhaustion, so I'll stop here and resume later. I've left enough for now, anyway. I should in theory do JJJ as well and might just do him in full, but you have my crazy gut read on him. I'll grant him this though, compared to what I've revisited above on the other "LC critics", he has been rather more inquisitive and going through all the questioning/analysing stages by comparison. Overall, it'd be a sheer craftsman work, unlike anything I've seen, if he truly bussed LC. Gonna mull on this further.

Others, on the other sides of the spectrum, to follow as well.

[MacDougall]

MacDougall: Talk about Russtifinko.

Go.

I don't know him personally but he seems lovely.

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

[Epignosis]

MacDougall: Talk about Russtifinko.

Go.

I don't know him personally but he seems lovely.

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Really bad.

[MacDougall]

In fairness Russ's posts of late have been dripping with insincerity. He is as scummy as anyone in the game. I will do a good analysis of he and BR when I awake from my nap. I have a migraine.

Linki: I heart you epi.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When it comes to Russ I've been relying too heavily upon DrWilgy's assessment of his vote during the LC lynch. I'll ISO him next.

[Epignosis]

When it comes to Russ I've been relying too heavily upon DrWilgy's assessment of his vote during the LC lynch. I'll ISO him next.

That's an odd thing to say. Why not just Russ's vote? Why DrWilgy's assessment of his vote?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When it comes to Russ I've been relying too heavily upon DrWilgy's assessment of his vote during the LC lynch. I'll ISO him next.

That's an odd thing to say. Why not just Russ's vote? Why DrWilgy's assessment of his vote?

I wouldn't have identified the vote as being so solid were it not for Wilgy's analysis. I am giving him credit for doing the legwork, not blaming him for the read.

[TheFloyd73]

The Floyd

RYMer, totally new to the game of forums Mafia let alone the Syndicate. Has had heaps of "mental shit" going on.

IRL, yes. If you wish to investigate this "shit" further, feel free ask.

[Epignosis]

When it comes to Russ I've been relying too heavily upon DrWilgy's assessment of his vote during the LC lynch. I'll ISO him next.

That's an odd thing to say. Why not just Russ's vote? Why DrWilgy's assessment of his vote?

I wouldn't have identified the vote as being so solid were it not for Wilgy's analysis. I am giving him credit for doing the legwork, not blaming him for the read.

I don't see how that's helpful.

This is also odd:

Yeah I think FZ has raised a decent point about Russ, and I can't see any other explanations, so I will be *Voting Russti*

Whaddya think of my reviews of Diiny and Devin, which returned a number of pings for me?

[TheFloyd73]

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

Very odd things, would you like to elaborate on this?

[Epignosis]

Relationship between Russtifinko and Long Con:

Spoiler: show

I wasn't convinced by JJJ's single read on Long Con. The Llama Gambit (saying you're suspicious of someone you're not to see who bandwagons it) is a fairly common Syndicate ploy. But this analysis by Matt F might have some merit. The posts you're highlighting show Sorsha acting how I'd imagine myself acting if I were on a baddie team with LC. Sorsha, you say you and LC have been playing together for years, but what made it obvious to you that LC's suspicion of bea was a ploy if you think she's the last person he'd use to pull a ploy?
LC, what are your thoughts on Sorsha at the moment?

sig, you said earlier you're a weak player and an easy lynch candidate. Any examples? I'm not sure if I've played with you before.

espers, why did you change from voting seaside with a reason to voting me without one? And no, "to make things interesting" does not count. If tightening up the lynch was really your objective, sig would've made more sense than me as he was closer to BWT in votes.

He expressed doubts about my initial case against LC and suggested that such gambits are common in general around The Syndicate. I've not observed this maneuver in any game yet, so I'll ask Russ now to reference another example of that precise gambit.

Also he's criticizing Sorsha for her treatment of LC re: The Ruse and prodding LC to talk about Sorsha. At the least he is showing that he isn't afraid to talk a lot about the confirmed scum, and to defend him in the face of my inquisition.

Spoiler: show

RIP to our departed friends.

I had a Hell Day at work and am keeping it light tonight, since reading hurts my head.

I wasn't convinced by JJJ's single read on Long Con. The Llama Gambit (saying you're suspicious of someone you're not to see who bandwagons it) is a fairly common Syndicate ploy. But this analysis by Matt F might have some merit. The posts you're highlighting show Sorsha acting how I'd imagine myself acting if I were on a baddie team with LC. Sorsha, you say you and LC have been playing together for years, but what made it obvious to you that LC's suspicion of bea was a ploy if you think she's the last person he'd use to pull a ploy?
LC, what are your thoughts on Sorsha at the moment?

Nothing too pingy at the moment. Sorsha's not always the easiest to read, but I haven't found her particularly suspicious yet.

Well this is waffly.

To Russ's credit, LC responded to that prior request with meaningless vagueness and Russ didn't let him get away with that.

Spoiler: show

Ugh, I'm on time to vote but feel like I may be late to the party. This was a very good point.

How is it, that not one regular syndicater voted for LC? How is it, that none of the Rym players don't take that into consideration? Are we missing something here?

I should say that I have suspected LC as recently as my last post, though, and I'm a Syndicater, so it's not 100% true. Everyone seems to have ignored my posts, though, as I don't think anyone answered a question I asked...

Anyway, the fact that no other TSers are suspecting LC makes me feel a bit better about him. However, I have absolutely no read whatsoever on bcornett, and I think voting seaside or Macdougall at this point seems like a real bad idea. So I don't see a ton of opportunity to influence the lynch with my vote.

Also, I know Golden is a SuperStar Civ, but it's weird to me that at least 2 people (bea and motel room) are willing to just accept his suspicion at face value and go that way.

Starting to drink the Kool Aid that LC's ruse was legit.

Spoiler: show

Linki: Also don't love Sorsha trying to push LC harder to people who don't know LC here. I'm voting Sorsha.

I kind of like this. That he'd go after Sorsha for pushing against LC specifically to people that don't know him suggests to me that he was experiencing genuine doubts about his suspicion of LC.

Spoiler: show

I really don't see any reason to lynch llama at the moment and don't trust the reads of the people voting him. If necessary I'll switch my vote to prevent it.

Russ's vote for LC is famous now, and controversial (hi Wilgy and FZ). I am inclined to side with Wilgy in this case, because I think such an important vote wasn't absolutely necessary for Russ given his post history. He started [/i]mildly[/i] suspicious of LC and that suspicion waned -- he had so many avenues to vote for someone else. And given the heat LC was already under and likely to stay under, I don't think the mafia would have seen it as a major problem if the Flowers role was exposed with the group of bcornett voters. It'd still serve to delay the LC lynch, perhaps long enough to make a huge difference.

I like Russ's vote.

Spoiler: show

Posting because the host tells me I will be a non-participant if I don't.

I will read up throughout today and try to say something intelligent.

Why are you going to put so much thought in what you post? Trying to hide something? Just post your gut reads whether they are intelligent or not.

I support his decision to read up before posting suspicions.

Looks like mild buddying.

~~~

I think Russ emerges from this looking decent. I don't want to lynch him today.

3J, if Russ is bad, I think you are too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't see how that's helpful.

The post wasn't meant to be helpful. I was acknowledging that I had not done my due diligence on the Russ read and that I should change that.

This is also odd:

Yeah I think FZ has raised a decent point about Russ, and I can't see any other explanations, so I will be *Voting Russti*

Whaddya think of my reviews of Diiny and Devin, which returned a number of pings for me?

No it isn't. I constantly ask for feedback on everything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

3J, if Russ is bad, I think you are too.

Show me the content of that massive post you quoted in its entirety which brings you to make this comment.

I could have been wrong about Russ, I don't know. I definitely wasn't right in my analyses of everyone.