The Syndicate

My death is surprising to me, my Rez not so much.

There are lots of thing I (for example) do not know.
How would you like me to take them under consideration?
Should I make illogical decisions based on the fact that my logic might be wrong?
Should I vote roughly randomly to compensate for the chance that MP is just messing with us when he tells us things?

Please, recommend some specific alternative course of action while you rail at my behavior.
Any ideas what this "boom" might be, or how we could prepare for it?
Should we lynch boomslang first, based on your feelings about his behavior?
What role do you think he has, and how would lynching him again help us win in that case?

Linki mp - interesting!
And I am confused that they would choose her, since she was one of a small pool of suspects.
Still, I suppose the odds she would waste a Rez to kill herself to throw off suspicion are a bit remote,
so I'll pop her up into the probably civ category with DF.
I wonder if maybe Henderson is still around? That would explain the very odd choice of target.
I suppose BB is still unaccounted for, so that might have been the alarm clock going off.

Linki mp again..
Bah. I hate guessing games!

Well, in Avant at PA, he killed everyone who opened the package, lol. So that is my experience with Sockses bearing boxes.

So as i see it, our options are Elo, FH & Hedge, right? Based on what I have been reading and who has been presumably cleared?

RIP and welcome back Spacedaisy. I suppose prizes could be in play, but considering I had already started thinking you weren't bad based on your past votes, I feel good about this.

Right now my top two suspects are Hedgeowl and Elohcin, plus a little bit of Boomslang. There isn't really evidence directly supporting either of them as being bad, but the timing of Hedgeowl's vote for Epi on Day 5 does make me think she could have been using that vote to distance. I will read back and see if she was consistent in suspecting Epi, or if that was a one time thing.

Also, as was pointed out earlier, Epignosis is pretty loud and proud about defending his wife when she's a civvie. That never happened this game. Is it because they were once again baddie teammates? Gonna read back through Epi and Elohcin's posts as wel to see if anything jumps out.

I feel like bea went very quiet after Mongoose's death. Could be she's just busy, or maybe just mad that we didn't listen to her, which is fair enough.

S~V~S wrote:Well, in Avant at PA, he killed everyone who opened the package, lol. So that is my experience with Sockses bearing boxes.
So as i see it, our options are Elo, FH & Hedge, right? Based on what I have been reading and who has been presumably cleared?

I seem to recall someone describing another game in which each box had a button that deactivated your bomb, but I could be misremembering.

I'm pretty sure FH is civ, she's been in my 'trusted' list for quite a while.

wb daisy. Any idea why creeper targeted you?

I had to work last night and am just now getting up. Sorry if I seemed quiet FH.

Also, I'm running out of things to say. Hedgey, Elo, boom are my biggest ?


I'll admit, I was a bit eyebrowed about how FH was so sure that Martell was dead when talking to timmer, but as soon as goosey's lynch went through she was "She could be Martell" and is now back to thinking that whole team is dead, but Nev seems to have trust there so, I'm sure the fault lies in me jumping at shadows.

I'm very glad the shield is still in play.

oh - yes - and the box. *shakes fist* curse you Sockhost!

It's gone both ways that I can remember, once the box killed and another time the box saved. So yea, it's Russian Roulette up in this game as far as that goes.

I know I flip-flopped on the Martell issue. It's because I was really, really surprised that Mongoose was Penny. So I sort of had a moment of doubt that it was true.

Flyin' High wrote:RIP and welcome back Spacedaisy. I suppose prizes could be in play, but considering I had already started thinking you weren't bad based on your past votes, I feel good about this.

Right now my top two suspects are Hedgeowl and Elohcin, plus a little bit of Boomslang. There isn't really evidence directly supporting either of them as being bad, but the timing of Hedgeowl's vote for Epi on Day 5 does make me think she could have been using that vote to distance. I will read back and see if she was consistent in suspecting Epi, or if that was a one time thing.

Also, as was pointed out earlier, Epignosis is pretty loud and proud about defending his wife when she's a civvie. That never happened this game. Is it because they were once again baddie teammates? Gonna read back through Epi and Elohcin's posts as wel to see if anything jumps out.

I feel like bea went very quiet after Mongoose's death. Could be she's just busy, or maybe just mad that we didn't listen to her, which is fair enough.

I'm pretty sure Epig always defends Elo, pretty much regardless of alignment.

I can never read Hedge, but I do feel like one or both or her and Elo are the remaining baddies. I think FH being killed by the Piranha plant way back gives her a bit more civvie cred.

And I seriously doubt MP would introduce a 50-50 kill option this late in the game, but what do I know?

Fair enough on both points regarding FH. Like I said, jumping at shadows.

As for the 50/50 kill option. Evol host is Mr. and proud of it. I'd put nothing past him.

I was thinking that maybe we have each others "Disarm Bomb" buttons, that would be very evil, lol.

Hedgeowl wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I am just going to say that i am extremely frustrated; I find it highly unlikely that our host would allow his roles to be so easily pinned down, and i find it distressing that no one will take it under consideration that there might be things they do not know.

For a variety of reasons, Boom struck me as someone with BTS, not as an Indy.

Much as i do not wish to lose after dying twice, I must say I will smirk if not laugh when the boom is dropped by the host. As i am sure it will be.

I cna understand your feeling here. I am definitely starting to feel like everyone can't be who we think anymore or if they are then maybe recruited etc? There were crazayee bTS stuff in Bioshock. I just can't imagine it's that simple. However, I just have no good reads on people and when I thought I did I was very wrong.

There are 11 of us left and based on what people think maybe only to baddies and Cohen, so 9 civs/zodac. That seems like a lot, but with another kill tonight potentially 8 vs 2,3 or more.

The list:

Roles revealed as civ: Lizzy, SVS, BWT

People likely to be civ: Nev, Bea

Likely Indy or bad: boom

Unknowns: DF, ELo, FH, Hedge, SD

Without any evidence saying there's possible recruitment etc I think we should focus on the last 5 people. People seem to be given DF the botd, so I must have missed something there. I am conflicted on Elo given her frustration at the last lynch. Except for being very helpful I have no other inclinations on FH, but haven reread her at all and as other said I don't think there much either way for Daisy.

I didn't get much of a response here, so repost.

I have no read or idea on these last 4 people besides myself. FH made a likely case for why she is not on either team, but the same could be said for me almost, so anything else I am missing? Also, DF is playing exactly like I would expect bad or civv and I've been baddie with him twice. Honestly it all feels like a shot in the dark at this point.

S~V~S wrote:I was thinking that maybe we have each others "Disarm Bomb" buttons, that would be very evil, lol.

Maybe MP hasnt decided yet and will just use the best guess. So, basically we have no idea what will happen.

A few people seemed to be implying that DF had hinted at a certain role. Maybe it was a real hint, maybe it was a fake one, maybe it was a freaking coincidence. But a hint means someone is a civvie, right? Should that be orange, lol?

Memo to all, if I ever hint again myself, shoot me, K?

S~V~S wrote:A few people seemed to be implying that DF had hinted at a certain role. Maybe it was a real hint, maybe it was a fake one, maybe it was a freaking coincidence. But a hint means someone is a civvie, right? Should that be orange, lol?

Memo to all, if I ever hint again myself, shoot me, K?

:polite giggle:

Ebwop: I hate that smiley popping up everytime one types : p

S~V~S wrote:A few people seemed to be implying that DF had hinted at a certain role. Maybe it was a real hint, maybe it was a fake one, maybe it was a freaking coincidence. But a hint means someone is a civvie, right? Should that be orange, lol?
Memo to all, if I ever hint again myself, shoot me, K?

I am not lumping him into the 'mostly trusted' category on the basis of a simple role hint.
There are observables in play, and I would love to explain, but I think that pushes the rules too far.
But you won't be able to figure it out just by reading his posts.

Hedge: I have an excellent reason for trusting FH, and it is not based on her argument earlier.

This is the part of the Night 9 post that has me pondering DF.

MovingPictures07 wrote:The players then walked over to the bus, ready to head to Illinois. Then, familiarly, it started raining papers, which read:

"I feel pretty confident that DF is a civvie. Also Bea and DH are pretty trustworthy, imo. Not so sure about BWT..."

The papers were signed by Jack Torrence. "Wait... wasn't Jack Vompatti??? And wasn't he dead???" inquired juliets. The champions pondered.

At this point Vompatti had already been lynched as Jack. So that occurrence either had to come from the Sinister Exaggerator, or a civvie role that can take on another role's power. Since we are fairly certain at this point that the Manipulators are no more, then it stands to reason DF isn't part of that team. So the question you have to ask yourself, is would the Sinister Exaggerator write a scene saying someone appears civvie if that person isn't their teammate? Or is there a more friendly explanation for the message on the papers?

Everyone seems to be forgetting that that role has only a 50% chance of a reveal being successful in any case. So even if we COULD decipher which were the SI additions, the remainders are only a 50/50 crap shoot.

• Jim Moriarty - [Sherlock] – A criminal mastermind, he seeks revenge on those he sees as meddlers. Every even night, he attempts to uncover a player’s role, thereafter publicly revealing his result, but his result has a 50% chance of being inaccurate. As his team’s killer, he eradicates a player of his choice every odd night. If he dies, his kill passes to the next in line above him.

Anything else about this role is theoretical.

What I quoted had nothing to do with Moriarty's role.

Jack Torrence - [The Shining] – Can post his thoughts to the thread each night. If found by Delbert Grady, they gain BTSC and a nightly kill, changing Jack's alignment.

Jack is like a gossip role. Since Jack was dead, then another role was responsible for that gossip.

Ah, I noticed mention of the SI. I will go sit in a corner now, lol.

Flyin' High wrote:This is the part of the Night 9 post that has me pondering DF.

MovingPictures07 wrote:The players then walked over to the bus, ready to head to Illinois. Then, familiarly, it started raining papers, which read:

"I feel pretty confident that DF is a civvie. Also Bea and DH are pretty trustworthy, imo. Not so sure about BWT..."

The papers were signed by Jack Torrence. "Wait... wasn't Jack Vompatti??? And wasn't he dead???" inquired juliets. The champions pondered.

At this point Vompatti had already been lynched as Jack. So that occurrence either had to come from the Sinister Exaggerator, or a civvie role that can take on another role's power. Since we are fairly certain at this point that the Manipulators are no more, then it stands to reason DF isn't part of that team. So the question you have to ask yourself, is would the Sinister Exaggerator write a scene saying someone appears civvie if that person isn't their teammate? Or is there a more friendly explanation for the message on the papers?

this is what I was referring to as well. So I guess hint isn't the correct word, rather interpretations based on what I can reasonably think is likely to have happened. That coupled with the timing of when his suspicion of me went away and I got moved closer to the likely civ side of things, had me pencil in a role for him. I could be wrong in that role, but like with goosey, it doesn't seem to fit with what I'm seeing in the thread.

Well, this is so contrary to the way i feel comfortable playing, that I will bow out for now. You guys tell me how i should vote, and i will do that. I just really hope you all are right. I have found my gut to be good over the years, and things are not always what they seem. For me, penciling roles for people ruins games, no mystery, no fun, and in my experience, is wrong almost 50% of the time. I guess I understand the Ksite way better now, where all the roles are not known. I might host my next game that way.

So i will be back to vote~ later

I feel badly that you feel like your opinion or voice doesn't matter svs. because it does quite a bit. I certianly never meant to make you feel that way. you asked why I thought DF was civ, I said why. I could be wrong, obviously I don't think I am, but I could be. You're right there are unknowns but being they are unknown, I can't really factor them in can I?


I think somewhere in the Elo/Hedgey/Boom territory is likely to net us a baddie. I'm willing to listen to anyone's opinion on why we should vote one of them over the other. I'm willing to listen to anyone's theory about just about everyone tbh.

Every time i express an opinion, you tell me about hints, or FH tells me what I missed. Like i said, i just sincerely hope you all are right.

You're right there are unknowns but being they are unknown, I can't really factor them in can I?

True. But no one seems to be even acknowledging that the possibility (probablility, certainty) that our host is fucking with us exists. And while some people might not know this, some should. like me, like you. The tone of this remark strikes me badly.

Again, i want to vote for you,~ very, very badly. You are setting off every alarm I have. But more than any other game i have ever played, I feel irrelevant, which makes me doubt myself.

S~V~S wrote:Every time i express an opinion, you tell me about hints, or FH tells me what I missed. Like i said, i just sincerely hope you all are right.

You're right there are unknowns but being they are unknown, I can't really factor them in can I?

True. But no one seems to be even acknowledging that the possibility (probablility, certainty) that our host is fucking with us exists. And while some people might not know this, some should. like me, like you. The tone of this remark strikes me badly.

Again, i want to vote for you,~ very, very badly. You are setting off every alarm I have. But more than any other game i have ever played, I feel irrelevant, which makes me doubt myself.

I don't mean to make you feel irrelevant. I'm truly very sorry that is the case. I'm not trying to set off alarm bells. I'm being sincere. I feel very very badly. I'm sorry.

I'd like to add, that by no means do I think that my opinion is the end all be all of everything. Vote your way. Play the game your way. Your opinion does matter. And there has been a lot going on. I've forgotten things and needed reminding of them, so has FH, so has Nev, so has everyone. I didn't think anyone was saying your opinion didn't matter because we tried to clarify our thinking process for you. At least I know *I* wasn't trying to say that.

S~V~S, how would you have us play differently? I am not using anything that isn't 100% available in the game thread to form my theories and opinions. Yes, MP might be screwing with us, but where's the evidence of that? So far I think almost everything that has happened this game can be explained by reading the roles.

I do agree there may be secrets we're not privy to. And if there are I think it's based on potential prizes that have been handed out (e.g. the MacGyver contest). Did bea come back a non-civvie when she was recruited? Maybe, I certainly can't rule it out. But the reason I am still leaning towards trusting her is that she was the lone defender of Mongoose. And since Mongoose all but admitted to rezzing her, and was civvie, then I'm not sure it makes sense that bea came back as bad.

What do you think about Hedgeowl? Or Elohcin? I waver back and forth between placing my vote on one of them, but I can't decide. Do you think we should take a chance on Boomslang today? I don't want to waste a lynch and give Creeper another night to kill, but I'm open to discussion on this.

Well, it seems like you all have the analysis pretty well locked down, so I'll just pop in to say I'm totally opening my box. And will probably vote Elo, because nothing important has changed since the last day.

S~V~S wrote:Every time i express an opinion, you tell me about hints, or FH tells me what I missed. Like i said, i just sincerely hope you all are right.

You're right there are unknowns but being they are unknown, I can't really factor them in can I?

True. But no one seems to be even acknowledging that the possibility (probablility, certainty) that our host is fucking with us exists. And while some people might not know this, some should. like me, like you. The tone of this remark strikes me badly.

Again, i want to vote for you,~ very, very badly. You are setting off every alarm I have. But more than any other game i have ever played, I feel irrelevant, which makes me doubt myself.

I actually feel like this is something I have been trying to say but failing since several posts I walked away from before finishing. I was really counting on Mongoose being bad and hopefully shedding light on Beas as a possible baddie in thàt case. Since the opposite happened that has made me reevaluate for sure. What I really wonder is if we arè just a bunch of civs sitting around trying to find a baddie or two or whether its the opposite and there have been recruits. I don't know who FH, DF, Elo, SD are and only have guess for Bea, Boom, and Nev. and for the confirmed folk who knows if their roles are right at this point or if something happened with rezzing recruits etc.

If Zodac needs to achieve a balanced game then I could see why more civs need to go. And it makes me wonder about those rezzed by Zodac. I would prefer to to be lynched of course, but I am only one person, so we will see. mongoose felt the same and didnt stop us there.

It would be nice if someone makes at least a small case on me to address, if they are leaning there. Basically those of us who haven't role hinted are being punished by being lynched as unknown, rather than baddie. I'd rather at least lynch a Kate voter, than go on nothing.

Ebwop: prefer NOT to be lynched. Lol.

SVS, if it makes you feel any better, I feel irrelevant most of the time. But you're a confirmed civ, so you're one of the most valuable players we have!

Hedge, I think the suspicion of you mainly comes down to process of elimination. SVS, LIzzy, and BWT are basically confirmed civvies, we have pretty solid reason to believe Nev, Bea, and Daisy are civvies, and Boom is probably Cohen (though he might be a straight-up baddie as well). That leaves you, me, FH, and Elo as the potential baddies. And FH at least has the Piranha thing, which alleviates my suspicion of her somewhat.

You guys, I'm not sure I'm buying this whole SD thing because that's just bad baddie strategy :\ She could be BB, but I somehow don't see her accepting a NK offer from a random butler (unlike myself )

Also, should we have some sort of package strategy? I played the Avant game on PA and naturally, I opened mine (although I think that one was a poll option) and kinda died.

FH, I would not have you do anything differently <3

Basically it is my premise (and always has been, really) that it is easier to be successful as a baddie when you can speak the language of the civvies convincingly. I think discussing odds, probability, etc., usually does give good odds of narrowing the flock to the smallest possible baddie pool. But it is also a conversation I find that it is easier in general for baddies to blend into since it is facts, not opinions~ a fact is or it isn't; opinions can be twisted. For instance, helpful as he was, I really do think DH was bad. I was trying to find a chink in his armor when he got Red Roomed.

I was hoping, via emotional outburst, to get people talking a bit about other than WHO is in the votable baddie pool (overall, Hedgie, Elo, Faraday & FH) and more about sorting them out. I have eliminated FH & Faraday based on things they have said. So Elo has once again said very little~ Hedgie, however, has said a bunch, and none of it really made me feel better about her. I would not be surprised if they both were bad, tbh.

So I am going to vote for you Hedge I feel marginally more confident that you are bad.

*votes*

Linki agreed re Zodac attacking, and i opened mine in PA Avant and died, I have no experience of Avant 2, where apparently they did NOT explode. I am sure it is some other option this time, like I said, the most wicked thing I can think of is that we hold each others buttons, lol.

P.S. I did not even go into my SD opinions as she is not on the poll.

S~V~S wrote:P.S. I did not even go into my SD opinions as she is not on the poll.

Oh bugger! I didn't see that. And... I kinda want to open mine. Go out with a bang and stuff.

And Hedgie is very likely to be my pick for today as well.

S~V~S wrote: For instance, helpful as he was, I really do think DH was bad. I was trying to find a chink in his armor when he got Red Roomed.

I agree with you there! And yes, it was tough to stick anything to him, since he stayed with analysis and avoided opinions.
My reasons for suspecting him revolved around finding flaws or missing conclusions in his analyses..
one can't ever be sure someone didn't really just miss some facts though.

S~V~S wrote:Hedgie, however, has said a bunch, and none of it really made me feel better about her. I would not be surprised if they both were bad, tbh.

I would be!

Nevinera wrote:There are lots of thing I (for example) do not know.
How would you like me to take them under consideration?
Should I make illogical decisions based on the fact that my logic might be wrong?
Should I vote roughly randomly to compensate for the chance that MP is just messing with us when he tells us things?

Please, recommend some specific alternative course of action while you rail at my behavior.
Any ideas what this "boom" might be, or how we could prepare for it?
Should we lynch boomslang first, based on your feelings about his behavior?
What role do you think he has, and how would lynching him again help us win in that case?

Linki mp - interesting!
And I am confused that they would choose her, since she was one of a small pool of suspects.
Still, I suppose the odds she would waste a Rez to kill herself to throw off suspicion are a bit remote,
so I'll pop her up into the probably civ category with DF.
I wonder if maybe Henderson is still around? That would explain the very odd choice of target.
I suppose BB is still unaccounted for, so that might have been the alarm clock going off.

Linki mp again..
Bah. I hate guessing games!

I am out most of the day, so I am just going to remind Nev of this post before he votes.

SVS, I am most surprised by your vote as I thought you might be the one person to know I was possibly civ. My question to you is how come I never got to play your game?

I am not an important civ by any means, but I am civ nonetheless. Sorry if my attempts at discussion make me a baddie, but seriously I was at least trying in the limited time I have right now. Based on my role, which you will all know soon enough, I have been wathcing and waiting for when the lynch bandwagoning might start around me, as a sign of baddies, That is why I am so surprised its coming from NEev and FH, and thats I had the ZOdac speculation that I did. Think about it.

ok, I am out peace ya'll.

I believe she is hinting here, is anyone aware of corroborating evidence?
A night power that targeted Hedge but didn't turn out to hit her, perhaps?

That would persuade me to vote Elo instead today.

I agree, Creeper's decision to kill SD was odd. I see what Hedge might be hinting at, but like you said, Nev, if she was the original target last night, that doesn't make much sense either.

I am trying to look at things from every angle. The only Kate voter's who are still alive are bea, birdwithteeth, and Spacedaisy. But when bea voted for Kate, she was a civvie (assuming we are certain she was civvie before her suicide and rezz?). We know BWT's role so unless something really funky has happened there, I think he can be cleared of being a baddie. And I've pointed out why I don't think SD makes much sense as a Video Game baddie. Plus with her recent death and rezz, there is a civvie role that makes more sense.

I skimmed back through Hedgeowl's posts and she has never been insanified, doesn't appear to have been Homestar Runnered, and hasn't been targeted at night for a kill. So there might be something there.

One thing I considered is players who have missed votes. I know when I am on a team I am much more careful about voting because I have a team relying on my vote. Hedgeowl has missed two votes, but Elohcin, who has been mostly absent from discussion this game, has never missed a vote.

I am going to carefully read back through some people's posts. I was ready to vote Hedge until her latest post which has given me pause.

Question to everyone: Do you think there's a chance Dr. Fetus is dead already? I've been pondering if were dealing with a lone baddie in Creeper right now.

Lizzy wrote:You guys, I'm not sure I'm buying this whole SD thing because that's just bad baddie strategy :\ She could be BB, but I somehow don't see her accepting a NK offer from a random butler (unlike myself )

Also, should we have some sort of package strategy? I played the Avant game on PA and naturally, I opened mine (although I think that one was a poll option) and kinda died.

I would recommend you go back and read my posts after the secrets were revealed. There was a very good reason I was suspicious of Epi because of his connecting the dots of the Moriarty kill and the BB kill so quickly. I was suspicious of him before the secrets were revealed because of the phrasing of a PM I received.