Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

#4451

Fredwood wrote: Oops. We were talking about the potential for the role to be randomly activated, not about if I'd heard of it before.

About the voting, hindsight is 20/20, I remember the EOD being a lot more hectic and flipfloppy then your summary suggests. I fully admit to fucking up and is probably the best case to lynch me. I also don't think it will have a lot to do with why I'm lynched either (Most likely lynched either way), if I ever play again I'll know not to bother waiting to vote.

Oh gosh Fred I hope regardless of whether you are lynched today or not you will play again. You're playing a good game. I entered the game thinking you sounded civ and I'm entirely unsure at this point what I want to do in terms of a vote.

#4452

I don't like Fredwood's discussions of what the marker would/should do under certain conditions. Those defenses are standard for a guilty player and even remind me of myself as Alfothad (GY!BE serial killer).

His role claim explanation sounds genuine though, so it's a difficult scenario.

#4453

The role claims

speedchuck - Double-voter is compatible with any alignment, so that doesn't help him. That he provided three character names though should be telling so long as someone here has a character named Bellic other than speedchuck himself.

Strawhenge - Revenge killer is definitely a convenient claim. It keeps him alive, though to his credit he didn't claim it until I pressured him. It'd be a little bit redundant next to Silver Lantern's role.

Fredwood - One shot seducer (commutes another player and gets one yes/no question). It's certainly a creative claim. It's only verifiable retrospectively though so that doesn't help. There are some problems with the claim relative to his behavior.

MovingPictures07 - Bus driver -- I don't think his information reconciles with Golden's, but Golden was also scum. So.

juliets - Unknown. She perceived some conflict with Quin's claim, asserting some degree of redundancy.

Dyslexicon: Unknown. They claimed to be protective. This might be at odds with juliets' semi-claim.

I want to lynch all of you.

#4454

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The role claims

MovingPictures07 - Bus driver -- I don't think his information reconciles with Golden's, but Golden was also scum. So.

One thing about this issue. Golden has said many times - and I think he said it in this game - that he does not lie when bad unless absolutely necessary, I think because it's too easy to get caught in a lie. This makes me think he is telling the truth about his claim which leaves me unsure about MP. It doesn't seem like it would have been a necessity to lie.

#4455

juliets wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The role claims

MovingPictures07 - Bus driver -- I don't think his information reconciles with Golden's, but Golden was also scum. So.
One thing about this issue. Golden has said many times - and I think he said it in this game - that he does not lie when bad unless absolutely necessary, I think because it's too easy to get caught in a lie. This makes me think he is telling the truth about his claim which leaves me unsure about MP. It doesn't seem like it would have been a necessity to lie.

If MP is also mafia though then there shouldn't be a discrepancy. It's so easy to just corroborate Golden's claim correctly. I don't understand.

#4456

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
juliets wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The role claims

MovingPictures07 - Bus driver -- I don't think his information reconciles with Golden's, but Golden was also scum. So.
One thing about this issue. Golden has said many times - and I think he said it in this game - that he does not lie when bad unless absolutely necessary, I think because it's too easy to get caught in a lie. This makes me think he is telling the truth about his claim which leaves me unsure about MP. It doesn't seem like it would have been a necessity to lie.
If MP is also mafia though then there shouldn't be a discrepancy. It's so easy to just corroborate Golden's claim correctly. I don't understand.

Yeah you're right. It's hard to believe two mafia smart players like MP and Golden didn't understand how the roles worked. I don't know how to explain it but it bothers me.

#4457

Theory: Dyslexicon played into the dialogue about numerous protective roles by claiming one himself -- it'd allow him to justify most targets he'd make. Those targets of his though are actually marks, and he blew up Golden and Quin.

#4458

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Theory: Dyslexicon played into the dialogue about numerous protective roles by claiming one himself -- it'd allow him to justify most targets he'd make. Those targets of his though are actually marks, and he blew up Golden and Quin.

Looking at it the other way around, did it make sense from a civ standpoint for Dyslexicon to claim protective when he did? I have to look back and refresh my memory of what was happening when he claimed.

#4459

It looks like Dyslexicon was not around for the discussion where I first said I didn't trust Quin's claim (it was late at night eastern time). The next morning he claimed with this statement:

Dyslexicon wrote:Doctor, bodyguard, and I have a protective ability as well. Though not quite as strong, I'd say.

I think I know why Dys claimed but it would be better if he explained why he claimed at this point in time.

#4460

I come back to the game being less solved than when I left. Crazy.

Fred, your roleclaim:
You get a behind the scenes chat with one player during the night, and also get a question?

Do you ask the mod the question? Does it have to be about the person you chat with? When do you get the answer?

Please clarify more, because I'm having trouble with this. Your role sounds very disjointed, like it's a couple of different roles mashed together.

(Not that I can talk, as an seeker/conditional doublevoter.

I've played weirder, though.)

#4461

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:To ensure this causes no confusion later: I did not track speedchuck.

I didn't really believe you did either. All the sads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Theory: Dyslexicon played into the dialogue about numerous protective roles by claiming one himself -- it'd allow him to justify most targets he'd make. Those targets of his though are actually marks, and he blew up Golden and Quin.

juliets wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Theory: Dyslexicon played into the dialogue about numerous protective roles by claiming one himself -- it'd allow him to justify most targets he'd make. Those targets of his though are actually marks, and he blew up Golden and Quin.
Looking at it the other way around, did it make sense from a civ standpoint for Dyslexicon to claim protective when he did? I have to look back and refresh my memory of what was happening when he claimed.

I claimed protective because I felt there were too many protective roles floating around already, and it seemed less likely all of those would be town. I also had used my shots by then, and have basically been vanilla from D3, so I wouldn't mind being killed at that point for being protective, though should've probably left out the "not as strong" part for that purpose. So I did it because I felt it was helpful information. It would make no sense for me as scum to claim protective into a bunch of players already claiming the same.

I would very much be interested in Juliets role. She's the only one that hasn't given much information about it?

---

@Speed, I didn't get the vest N1, and don't quite understand how you think I would. With all the controversy and mistrust around me D1 I would probably be near bottom of the list for gift reveiving. I really don't get why you're nudging at that.

#4462

Is the vest the only item you've handed out, Dizzy?

#4463

So, I'm super conflicted about stuff.
First when reading Fred, I liked his defense. It doesn't make sense for how I would play the game, but it certainly could make sense for him. Not claiming investigative on Soneji in fear of being a target is exactly the opposite of what I would've done. I would hint hard at being cop, ensure Soneji was the lynch (or even better, the gun kill), and then welcome a NK with open arms. But some players are more self-pres for reasons unknown to me, which I'm not. But I could see Fred being this type of self-pres.
The claim is pretty creative if it's made up. It's also possible, however, that the marker have other abilities than just marking.
I really dislike the contradiction that Juliets pointed out, about Fred saying "what is a demo man" and then "I once customized a demo man". That is pretty bad. I also think Fred kind of skipped over that point in his answer, just brushing it off.
Super conflicted. I agree that the "I would've done this and that and not at all this thing that happened" is more likely to come from scum than town. For me, I have no idea how I would've played a marker in this game, I don't have incentive to think about that much. But Fred is seeming to have very detailed opinions and some places information about how that whole thing would work.

For Juliets I'm more so sheeping other's reads. She seems town enough, but DFray being a 3p and that having some impact on only two people being marked isn't all that unreasonable to me. I don't know Juliets, I wish I did, cause maybe it would be easier to have a clearer read.

The way straw made his claim looks better than the claim itself. He's not exempt from suspicion. I also go back to the first impression I had of him in which I think he sounded awkward in thread.

Speed looks better? The claim seems oddly specific and creative. I don't know.

MP is not out of the question for me either. I wish I could trust him, but I just don't. Maybe he has marking powers and bus-driving powers, switched Fred and Golden and targeted Fred, so Golden would get the mark, and Golden would get results back that Fred was targeted by Eloh (when in reality the result he got back was on himself, but he wouldn't know the difference since both Fred and Golden was targeted by Eloh). This actually makes sense.

I actually think it's less likely there is a last mafia. Who would that even be?

#4464

Dyslexicon wrote:I really dislike the contradiction that Juliets pointed out, about Fred saying "what is a demo man" and then "I once customized a demo man". That is pretty bad. I also think Fred kind of skipped over that point in his answer, just brushing it off.

I want to ensure this isn't misconstrued further: I am the one who said I wrote a demo man role, not Fred. Fred later had a "so did I" which caused confusion, but he wasn't talking about that.

#4465

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Is the vest the only item you've handed out, Dizzy?

No.
Would ideally want Juliets to claim, but I have to go soon anyway.
I had two vests to hand out, gave one to Nut N1 and one to Golden (boooo) N2. And that's it. You can see Nut talking about using an item the day before she was killed. It's also clear from the way she was talking about it that it was protective. It looks like it had to be activated though, which I didn't realize as I'm used to BP vests just protecting you for whenever you get targeted. This is why I hinted that Nut would've had to be strongman killed. Soneji was strongman, so story checks out (which is what Quin relied on I guess, should Soneji flip before Quin).

#4466

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:I really dislike the contradiction that Juliets pointed out, about Fred saying "what is a demo man" and then "I once customized a demo man". That is pretty bad. I also think Fred kind of skipped over that point in his answer, just brushing it off.
I want to ensure this isn't misconstrued further: I am the one who said I wrote a demo man role, not Fred. Fred later had a "so did I" which caused confusion, but he wasn't talking about that.

Oh. I didn't get that.

Btw, what do you think of MP and his relation to his own role? He claimed it, but on later day doesn't seem to understand it.

#4467

Dyslexicon wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:I really dislike the contradiction that Juliets pointed out, about Fred saying "what is a demo man" and then "I once customized a demo man". That is pretty bad. I also think Fred kind of skipped over that point in his answer, just brushing it off.
I want to ensure this isn't misconstrued further: I am the one who said I wrote a demo man role, not Fred. Fred later had a "so did I" which caused confusion, but he wasn't talking about that.
Oh. I didn't get that.

Btw, what do you think of MP and his relation to his own role? He claimed it, but on later day doesn't seem to understand it.

I don't understand it either, so

That's kind of the current frustration. There are civilians in this dialogue who have played or interpreted things in bizarre ways and it's making it very difficult to distinguish truth from untruth.

#4468

Dyslexicon wrote: I would very much be interested in Juliets role. She's the only one that hasn't given much information about it?

It's not in the best interest of the town for me to claim unless I'm about to get lynched but I can tell you that like the other roles that have been claimed, it has limitations. It's also a role I have never heard of in the mafia I have played. It is a protective role but has not been mentioned as a possible role in this game. I hope that is enough information. I will think about if there's anything else I can safely say.

#4469

juliets wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote: I would very much be interested in Juliets role. She's the only one that hasn't given much information about it?
It's not in the best interest of the town for me to claim unless I'm about to get lynched but I can tell you that like the other roles that have been claimed, it has limitations. It's also a role I have never heard of in the mafia I have played. It is a protective role but has not been mentioned as a possible role in this game. I hope that is enough information. I will think about if there's anything else I can safely say.

That sounds reasonable enough for me, actually.

I guess, Juliets and Speed are the most likely to be town?

Some sort of wtf mixed feeling about Fred, Straw and MP.
Straw having something that is every night is maybe susp. Most town roles seems to be x-shot, except bodyguard probably?
Fred is just hmmmmmmm all over.
MP.... sigh.

#4470

Soneji -- gunsmith and vest gifter

Silver Lantern -- vigilante and janitor

These are decently well opposed.

Dyslexicon -- vest giver or something

Strawhenge -- revenge killer

These are decently well opposed.

#4471

Let's do an exercise, gang. List all of the remaining six players other than yourselves, and explain at least briefly two things:

1. Why is this player a civilian?

2. Why is this player not a civilian?

See what your brain spills out and gauge the degree of inspiration.

#4472

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Soneji -- gunsmith and vest gifter

Silver Lantern -- vigilante and janitor

These are decently well opposed.

Dyslexicon -- vest giver or something

Strawhenge -- revenge killer

These are decently well opposed.

I see the relation of
Quin (odd night doctor) and Silver (odd night vig)
Soneji (vest and gun giver) and me (vest giver)

I still don't see bus driver as a normal town role though. I actually think I've never seen bus driver/switcher as town friendly. It's very common among 3p at my home site. I realize this is different, but still it's a thing for me.

#4473

I'm fucking stumped (not in the role power way, but in the I-completely-don't-have-a-clue way).

my brain

linki: Jay, I see your questionnaire, let me think on it.

#4474

Dyslexicon wrote:Straw having something that is every night is maybe susp. Most town roles seems to be x-shot, except bodyguard probably?

I had a similar thought, primarily because the people Strawhenge targets will experience nothing, and indeed nothing will happen with the role he has presented -- unless he is night killed. This is analogous to a marker marking every night; nothing happens until later.

#4475

Dyslexicon wrote:I still don't see bus driver as a normal town role though. I actually think I've never seen bus driver/switcher as town friendly. It's very common among 3p at my home site. I realize this is different, but still it's a thing for me.

I've seen it. I am pretty sure the HCR gang lives by it. I don't think it's a great role in town hands because it only causes confusion, but I've seen it.

#4476

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Straw having something that is every night is maybe susp. Most town roles seems to be x-shot, except bodyguard probably?
I had a similar thought, primarily because the people Strawhenge targets will experience nothing, and indeed nothing will happen with the role he has presented -- unless he is night killed. This is analogous to a marker marking every night; nothing happens until later.

I mean... It really is 1-shot. I can only die once.

I don't see it as incongruous with the x-shot nature of the roles we've seen, because I'm not doing anything. Just preparing to do the thing every night.

#4477

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Let's do an exercise, gang. List all of the remaining six players other than yourselves, and explain at least briefly two things:

1. Why is this player a civilian?

2. Why is this player not a civilian?

See what your brain spills out and gauge the degree of inspiration.

I don't have time to do this outside of what I've already said. Sorry.

Didn't want to say this in case I was killed first, cause that would be better. But I'm going abroad in about 10 hours, half way around the globe actually. Pretty sure my wi-fi situation will be decent, but my time and attention likely won't. I didn't expect this game to go on for so long or me to be alive at this stage. I'm sorry if this is inconvenient, I will try my best for it not to be. I don't think having a replacement at this stage of the game is better though, so if people are ok with it I'll just try my best to give what I can.

#4478

I have time to try it but it will take a few minutes.

Dyslexicon, safe travels!

#4479

I'm fucking stumped too. I switch through the suspects in my head, and every time someone posts something I'm finding myself thinking it's believable and go on to the next.

Maybe it's just Fred which seems like the simplest solution.

Speed's claim is curious though. Bringing in Flavor into the actual role, as in giving names? I mean, it's certainly creative if it's a fake claim, but it seems almost too far out? I don't think any other role had descriptions that utilized flavor?

#4480

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:I still don't see bus driver as a normal town role though. I actually think I've never seen bus driver/switcher as town friendly. It's very common among 3p at my home site. I realize this is different, but still it's a thing for me.
I've seen it. I am pretty sure the HCR gang lives by it. I don't think it's a great role in town hands because it only causes confusion, but I've seen it.

Yeah it's probably a null point. Personally I don't like it for a town role that much, but that isn't too relevant here.

#4481

Dyslexicon wrote:Speed's claim is curious though. Bringing in Flavor into the actual role, as in giving names? I mean, it's certainly creative if it's a fake claim, but it seems almost too far out? I don't think any other role had descriptions that utilized flavor?

I do note that nobody has voiced significant trust for him since the claim, indicating that nobody is named Bellic -- or that Bellic doesn't remember their own name. Check your role PMs!

#4482

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Speed's claim is curious though. Bringing in Flavor into the actual role, as in giving names? I mean, it's certainly creative if it's a fake claim, but it seems almost too far out? I don't think any other role had descriptions that utilized flavor?
I do note that nobody has voiced significant trust for him since the claim, indicating that nobody is named Bellic -- or that Bellic doesn't remember their own name. Check your role PMs!

I see how that's of note, but that seems like a pretty intricate role to fakeclaim.

Also, didn't you say, 'Whoever is Bellic, don't indicate that you're Bellic'?

#4483

Strawhenge wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:Speed's claim is curious though. Bringing in Flavor into the actual role, as in giving names? I mean, it's certainly creative if it's a fake claim, but it seems almost too far out? I don't think any other role had descriptions that utilized flavor?
I do note that nobody has voiced significant trust for him since the claim, indicating that nobody is named Bellic -- or that Bellic doesn't remember their own name. Check your role PMs!
I see how that's of note, but that seems like a pretty intricate role to fakeclaim.

Also, didn't you say, 'Whoever is Bellic, don't indicate that you're Bellic'?

I said check with sprityo before claiming your character. The "flavorclaiming" rule/guideline is unclear. It ought not require a claim anyway though -- if there's a civilian out there named Bellic then I think it's a lot less likely speedchuck is mafia. Otherwise that role doesn't make sense to me. If he's faking it, either he made the name up or it's his own name.

#4484

Ok, maybe I will do these two at a time. Here's JJJ and Dys. I'm sure I missed some things, this is from the top of my head.

JJJ is civilian because we have a role reveal that shows he's a civilian and he is obviously trying to solve the game
JJJ is not civilian because his role reveal was fake or he was recruited to the baddie team/marker team after his role reveal.

Dyslexicon is civilian because he identified Marmot early and it came off genuine, he lynched Soneji, he claimed protective even though there were other protective roles claimed, he brought attention to himself day 1 with his fake claim, vest giver balances with Soneji, vest to nutella is believable, seems unconcerned with how posts look, i.e., seems free and easy.
Dyslexicon is not civilian because his claim makes too many protective roles, he gave a vest to Golden, almost too much civilian stuff to be believable.

linki

#4485

Dyslexicon

Town because she seems like she's genuinely scumhunting.

Anti-town because of aforementioned assessments of unpredictable character.

Fredwood

Town because the lack of scumhunting reads like a very Strawhengian dip in confidence.

Anti-town because of the lack of scumhunting, and previously cited (by other players) sus posts, the suspicious nature I happen to agree with.

JaggedJimmyJay

Town because yeah.

Anti-town because he's just goddamn clever enough to have been given some kind of role-switching role to have a town role card be revealed to the public, and still somehow have targeting information, because he is some kind of strange entity who is partly fused with the Greater Spirit of Mafia. (I don't actually believe this. Levity. #alternativetinfoiling)

juliets

Town because scumhunting.

Anti-town because I don't know, nothing has jumped out at me. Which scares me in a Jay way. Now I'm terrified. Okay now I'm fine. Now I'm terrified again. I'm okay. I'm scared. I'm okay. [Strawhenge continues in this way for the next day and a half, long after EOD]

His Majesty the King of Fuck Mountain (MP07)

Town because claim read as genuine.

Anti-town because nobody is that nice, he's up to something. (I don't know.)

speedchuck

Town because scumhunting.

Anti-town ping was actually a real one: his earlier assertion that I must be the anti-town. It was very POE, so I'm not sirengiffing it, but it just seems really convenient and easy to lynch a low-activity player this late in the game. Not a huge ping at all; if we still had enough players to warrant a rainbow list, I'd put him at a yellowish green for this. But this, alongside some of his posts that others have pointed out, make me wary of him.

this entity (I'll do this one for funsies and fairness.)

Town (not scum) because he cased and suspected people on the scum team almost from the get-go, and though it was not a storied voting pattern, his voting pattern—and revenge-kill targeting pattern—is geared largely toward scum. Also revealed role only when pressured with a fatherly tone. Also is just a good egg, man.

Town (not rogue) because I don't know. Things don't look awesome for this entity in this category, but rogues are kinda like that, in such a way that it could literally be anybody but Jay. Also his revenge-kill targets included one of the bomb targets. Could have said that in case Jay tracked him.

Anti-town because of unprovable role, low activity, being a forgettable and bland human.

#4486

MP -

MP is civilian because he would have gotten the role straight before he came to the thread and claimed, voted to Lynch Soneji at last second, he's not getting as upset as he normally does when suspected (though he admits he's not really invested in the game).

MP is not civilian because he was pressed for time so didn't spend enough time in the baddie chat to understand what targets he needed to claim to make Golden's claim believable and what he did claim doesn't make sense, he claimed quickly to get Golden out of hot water, the targets he says he picked for other nights do not make sense.

linki - lol Strawhenge should not be lynched because he is funny. How did you do all those so quickly Straw, I'm like agonizing over here.

#4487

juliets wrote:How did you do all those so quickly Straw, I'm like agonizing over here.

They're all more-or-less gut-reads, because I haven't had the time to really get into the intricacies of the game. I know that diminishes the value of the reads, but that's all I have and I'm trying to contribute. Me:

#4488

Strawhenge: which of those felt the most convincing and which felt the least convincing? I don't count.

#4489

Fredwood, again I know I left some things out. Doing the best I can with these -

Fredwood is civilian because his posts sound genuine, he has tried to point out how the bus driving thing doesn't make sense since way back in the thread, he had suspicion of Soneji for awhile.

Fredwood is not civilian because he didn't vote in the Marmot or Soneji lynches when votes were particularly important, not a lot of scum hunting, he expressed consistent suspicion of Jack, suspected Scotty, makes comment that is strange to be in a game where no one is scared of an sk, argument that marker should have waited a day to explode doesn't hold water, motive for Fredwood to have marked Quin and Golden per JJJ's analysis.

#4490

Dyslexicon wrote: I still don't see bus driver as a normal town role though. I actually think I've never seen bus driver/switcher as town friendly. It's very common among 3p at my home site. I realize this is different, but still it's a thing for me.

I've seen it. http://forum.chocolatepi.net/showthread.php?tid=639 First example off the top of my head.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:I still don't see bus driver as a normal town role though. I actually think I've never seen bus driver/switcher as town friendly. It's very common among 3p at my home site. I realize this is different, but still it's a thing for me.
I've seen it. I am pretty sure the HCR gang lives by it. I don't think it's a great role in town hands because it only causes confusion, but I've seen it.

Busdriver is a great protective role in my opinion.

Working on those town/anti-town things.

#4491

I appreciate the effort, juliets. The point isn't to cover every single detail; it's to just throw some of the data into the thread and make immediate mental comparisons. It can help to sort out which cases are most worth pursuing in an environment like this where there's a lot of uncertainty.

#4492

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Strawhenge: which of those felt the most convincing and which felt the least convincing? I don't count.

Most convincing town read: Dys. Followed closely by juliets.

Most convincing anti-town read: Fredwood. Followed closely by speedchuck.

#4493

Strawhenge -

Strawhenge is civilian because no motive seen for marking Quin and Golden per JJJ's analysis, role claimed when JJJ asked him to, iso'd Long Con early with suspicion and continues with his suspicion later in the game, expressed Quin suspicion, Golden in vaguely suspicion category, expresses suspicion of soneji, he got us the siren gif and he's funny.

Strawhenge is not civilian because he has laid low for the whole game, can't prove his role, conveniently expresses suspicion of most of the baddies.

#4494

I'm feeling myself drawing back to the Fredwood/MP platform, with speedchuck as a backup suspect. If juliets is bad I have been thoroughly fooled and hats off to her. Strawhenge can be cased similarly to Fred, but he doesn't have the same focused marker dialogue that concerns me about Fred. I think there are valid angles with which Dizzy can be suspected, but it still feels more like tinfoil than like a reasoned argument.

#4495

JJJ
Town: Town because scumhunting, litaral townfirm by confirmed role, and proven tracker role.
3P: Because sprityo hates anything resembling actual information or balance and made the 3p a tracker as well, and also made him show up as town because not mafia.
Mafia: Mafia because he's a Godfather/tracker combo which totally is not OP at all.

Town

MovingPicures07
Town: Because busdriving was claimed to have happened, and MP came in and quickly claimed his role without scouring the thread, even without knowing what's up with the role. We already got a scum busdriver dead. The lie was just a pointless lie from Golden.
3P: Because nobody ever tracked MP to see whether he visited two people. We already established that golden lied, now it's a falsifiable lie for no benefit or reason.
Mafia: Because his claim tried to corroborate Golden's (very quickly early on, perhaps with help), and there was a lie in there somewhere for some reason. It also makes little sense for Golden to watch freddie. Wine.

Town slightly more likely than mafia.

juliets
Town: Scumhunting has happened. No sirengifs on her. She is active.
3P: Playing a really good game, but doesn't have mechanical evidence to clear her at all. Claimed vaguely protective (being the third or fourth town protective, if MP is believed). Pushed off an exact claim until too late.
Mafia: Same as 3P.

Why does it feel like tinfoil to state valid scummy ideas about juliets? Town, but not as town as JJJ or dizzy.

Dyslexicon
Town: Because she was on town's side all game. Because the claim fits and is good, made at good times for good reasons. Because mafia was trying to lynch her all game. Because scumhunting.
3P: Been aloof. Anti-mafia would still hold.
Mafia: Gave a vest to Golden. There are totally two mafia vest-givers. Totally.

Town

Fredwood
Town: Early on Soneji tried to do him in. Hasn't really pinged scumdar all game.
3P: Hasn't pinged scumdar all game. Hasn't pinged towndar all day. Hasn't really stuck his neck out for either faction. Claim is unverifiable, doesn't fit with his actions that well.
Mafia: Hard bussing/distancing early and the behind the scenes chat with Soneji was just actually mafia chat. Knew Son was scum because scummates. Claim is unverifiable, doesn't fit with his actions that well.

I could actually go Mafia or 3p on this one. Still possible he's town, but I wouldn't put it at probable.

Strawhenge
Town: Claim was made well, I feel. The claim was also not chosen to be believable or to help survival. Wine there. There is a place for a revenge killer in this setup, yes? Also anti-alignment with the mafia.
3P: Claimed to mark people and then kill them later if lynched. What 3P role is this most similar to?
Mafia: Really stuck with that Dizzy realclaim biz a long time on D1. Yeah, that's all I got.

Not mafia. Possibly 3P.

#4496

Im so loving this game. Glad one of Fred and Silver survived this late to experience Syndicatey late game.

#4497

Strawhenge, the role that you have is both helpful and super dangerous. If you are scum, and lying, then lynching you is fine.
If you are town, and we happen to goof up and lynch you in the next two days, we can technically get two lynches for the price of one with your revengekill.

You've been thinking about your role longer than I have (I hope). Question (for you mostly, and for everyone else):
1. If you were to get lynched, would it be advantageous to reveal your revenge kill beforehand or not?
2. If you were to be selected as one of two people we were most inclined to lynch, and nothing out of the ordinary happened, would it be more advantageous to lynch you first, or the other suspect first?

These are thought questions. Assume that you are town and we do not know it because we are stupid, and are giving you these options.

#4498

juliets wrote: Oh gosh Fred I hope regardless of whether you are lynched today or not you will play again. You're playing a good game. I entered the game thinking you sounded civ and I'm entirely unsure at this point what I want to do in terms of a vote.

Fred already promised to play in an HCRealms/Syndicate full crossover game. No take backs.

#4499

speedchuck -

speedchuck is civilian because he has been actively attempting to solve the game and baddie hunt throughout, voted Marmot when not voting him probably wouldn't have resulted in suspicion, voted Soneji which was a better lynch than LC, brought up problems with Golden's claim. (The first item is a big one as he has been thorough and consistent)

speedchuck is not civilian because the analysis shows he is compatible with marking targets, no one has stood up for him as the third role so it could be his own name, he is knowledgeable enough to make up a plausible role that can't be proved, hammered LC which shut down discussion early, this is opinion but he seems to be the most "mafia smart" of all players except JJJ so I could see him pulling it off. Is making my head hurt with his thought question.

linki Jack: yayay! I didn't know we were talking about a crossover game; glad Fred said he would play.

#4500

Ok, so I come out in the same place as JJJ after all that, with Fred and MP at the top of my list. The MP suspicion is just so hard but I cant make the target claim make sense in my head. I just worry that he was rushed and didn't think through the targets he was claiming. My backup to both suspicions is speedchuck and my tinfoil is Strawhenge because he just hasn't given us a lot of content to rate. I'm scared he could have just laid back because he is bad.

How would you Rate this game?