The Syndicate

I've been over this. A mass claim will help mafia more than hurt them.

S~V~S wrote:As I understand it, Cain was like Athena, a literary device of sorts to demonstrate that all was not black/white, yes? Like in the original series, Cylons were unmitigated evil, no wiggle room. In the reboot,not so much (this is totally from the "only read multiple articles on the wiki & saw half of season one" perspective, I am going to bite the bullet & buy the mini series this weekend so season 1 makes more sense). Athena demonstrated that Cylons could be good, and Cain that humans could be bad. Is this correct? She seems somewhat of a tragic figure, but she seems driven by hate & revenge. No one could blame her personally for hating cylons in general, but it seeped into her command decisions, which is what made it bad.

Even if not for canon driven reasons that make me think this role is bad, I am not a fan of our win cons being made more difficult, since even if the remaining cylons seem to be predominantly bad, the Final Five, not so much.

If she backs down & restores our win cons, I am less likely to worry about her. But I view that win con thing as an act of aggression.

Pretty much. The Pegasus originally had an entourage of civilian ships like the Galactica, but she decided to strip them of vital equipment for spare parts for the Pegasus and left the people to die. For Cain, prosecuting the war against the Cylons trumped preserving the human race, which is kind of insane.

Plus, she delighted in torturing people. So... yeah.

I'm surprised you weren't all over the show.

Polo wrote:Claim Cylon and I might read you good.

Unless of course you come up with the idea. :P

a2thezebra wrote:I've been over this. A mass claim will help mafia more than hurt them.

I would halfway agree with you.

However, people have staggered their claims over the past 2 days. LoRab claimed yesterday, which is why her CPU was turned off today.

It was actually a BOON for everyone to mass claim yesterday because LoRab was going to die either way you looked at it. That way, no one could hold on to their potential immunity.

So two days ago, I would have agreed whole-heartedly. Now? There's only a few that haven't claimed. And they look infinitely more suspicious.

And hey sig,
I'll stop tunneling on you a sec. Glorf is down right making you out to be the sun god while he a loyal servant of Pelor. I think both of you are bad, especially in that you have very similar voting records.

Does that count as not tunneling?

juliets wrote:I saw something in her posts that I believe would have got her punished but I don't think it is wise for me to repeat it. So, I think she's telling the truth.

You did better than I did. Like SD, I couldn't find anything even remotely punishable in her posts prior to her smiley phase. I couldn't find anything that looked like a trigger, either, and I consider her specific claim - that she was punished for triggering an event - just bizarre.

Of all the excuses for not declaring cylon remaining, this may be, to me, the weakest, and therefore the most suspicious.

Scotty wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I've been over this. A mass claim will help mafia more than hurt them.

I would halfway agree with you.

However, people have staggered their claims over the past 2 days. LoRab claimed yesterday, which is why her CPU was turned off today.

It was actually a BOON for everyone to mass claim yesterday because LoRab was going to die either way you looked at it. That way, no one could hold on to their potential immunity.

So two days ago, I would have agreed whole-heartedly. Now? There's only a few that haven't claimed. And they look infinitely more suspicious.

And hey sig,
I'll stop tunneling on you a sec. Glorf is down right making you out to be the sun god while he a loyal servant of Pelor. I think both of you are bad, especially in that you have very similar voting records.

Does that count as not tunneling?

So you halfway agree that a mass claim would help mafia more than hurt them but you're still up for pressuring those that haven't claimed yet to claim just because they look "infinitely more suspicious" if they don't at this point, just because they're the minority now? You're getting my vote.

He asks a question:

a2thezebra wrote:More people G2H read me as bad than I would have expected, for shame. Care to elaborate anyone?

Then answers it succinctly himself:

a2thezebra wrote:Not only am I not claiming Cylon, I highly discourage anyone else who still hasn't claimed Cylon from doing so.

a2thezebra wrote:I've been over this. A mass claim will help mafia more than hurt them.

What kind of intelligence can process this statement as being true? I suggest, an artificial one.

Dex wrote:He asks a question:

a2thezebra wrote:More people G2H read me as bad than I would have expected, for shame. Care to elaborate anyone?

Then answers it succinctly himself:

a2thezebra wrote:Not only am I not claiming Cylon, I highly discourage anyone else who still hasn't claimed Cylon from doing so.

a2thezebra wrote:I've been over this. A mass claim will help mafia more than hurt them.

What kind of intelligence can process this statement as being true? I suggest, an artificial one.

I consider myself female. Not everyone agrees but just FYI.

I don't see how the last two quotes are related to the question I asked before. In the G2H reads a number of people read me as bad that have barely mentioned me or asked me any questions, so I would still like some elaboration on that. My criticism of the Cylon mass claim plan is completely unrelated.

Zebra, I have a legit question for you. Which do you think helps mafia more: A half-player claim where half of the players claim Cylon, or a mass-claim where everyone claims Cylon?

We're roughly halfway (maybe further) to a mass-Cylon claim as it is. Do you suggest we just stop in our tracks?

Dex wrote:

juliets wrote:I saw something in her posts that I believe would have got her punished but I don't think it is wise for me to repeat it. So, I think she's telling the truth.

You did better than I did. Like SD, I couldn't find anything even remotely punishable in her posts prior to her smiley phase. I couldn't find anything that looked like a trigger, either, and I consider her specific claim - that she was punished for triggering an event - just bizarre.

Of all the excuses for not declaring cylon remaining, this may be, to me, the weakest, and therefore the most suspicious.

Even though I saw something for which I see she could be punished I agree that her using that punishment at this stage is the weakest of the reasons. Many of us have claimed and no one has sent out a warning to the others that punishment will come if you claim. Nor has Golden stepped in and given us all a warning quoting a rule and telling us that counts as breaking the rule. I believe one of those things would have happened if punishments go with claiming.

If OA is saying it's because of her specific role that she would be punished for claiming I don't know what exactly to think of that.

a2thezebra wrote:I consider myself female. Not everyone agrees but just FYI.

I don't see how the last two quotes are related to the question I asked before. In the G2H reads a number of people read me as bad that have barely mentioned me or asked me any questions, so I would still like some elaboration on that. My criticism of the Cylon mass claim plan is completely unrelated.

I knew that, too. Derp. I apologize,

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me my suspicion of you is entirely on account of your criticism of the Cylon mass claim plan, so they are not at all unrelated.

Tomorrow I'd like to lynch one of those who haven't claimed yet for I am sure that Cavil is among them.

I'm not. And I would say voting someone entirely on that is a bad idea. But I would consider voting for someone who has done other things that make suspicious and that as well. Don't give people who made the claim a civ pass,it would be an easy way to pick up some cred they don't deserve. I don't want to tunnel on just people who wouldn't claim.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Zebra, I have a legit question for you. Which do you think helps mafia more: A half-player claim where half of the players claim Cylon, or a mass-claim where everyone claims Cylon?

We're roughly halfway (maybe further) to a mass-Cylon claim as it is. Do you suggest we just stop in our tracks?

The latter definitely helps mafia more. I'm not happy that half of the players have already claimed Cylon, make no mistake, but that's still less harmful than for everyone to claim Cylon.

Dex wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I consider myself female. Not everyone agrees but just FYI.

I don't see how the last two quotes are related to the question I asked before. In the G2H reads a number of people read me as bad that have barely mentioned me or asked me any questions, so I would still like some elaboration on that. My criticism of the Cylon mass claim plan is completely unrelated.

I knew that, too. Derp. I apologize,

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me my suspicion of you is entirely on account of your criticism of the Cylon mass claim plan, so they are not at all unrelated.

No worries.

That makes sense that they're not unrelated to you, but it doesn't change that I did not answer my own question by asking why people suspected me and then saying again what I've said before. It wasn't an answer to my own question, I did not know you suspected me because of my criticism of the plan.

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm not. And I would say voting someone entirely on that is a bad idea. But I would consider voting for someone who has done other things that make suspicious and that as well. Don't give people who made the claim a civ pass,it would be an easy way to pick up some cred they don't deserve. I don't want to tunnel on just people who wouldn't claim.

Thank you for that, seriously.

I'm not ever going to give people a civ pass for claiming, but be damn sure that the evil Cylons aren't okay with losing their first lynch immunity.
Most people have already used up their claim; do you want to let Cavil and his toaster pals get the upper hand? Frakking hell.

a2thezebra wrote:

Scotty wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I've been over this. A mass claim will help mafia more than hurt them.

I would halfway agree with you.

However, people have staggered their claims over the past 2 days. LoRab claimed yesterday, which is why her CPU was turned off today.

It was actually a BOON for everyone to mass claim yesterday because LoRab was going to die either way you looked at it. That way, no one could hold on to their potential immunity.

So two days ago, I would have agreed whole-heartedly. Now? There's only a few that haven't claimed. And they look infinitely more suspicious.

And hey sig,
I'll stop tunneling on you a sec. Glorf is down right making you out to be the sun god while he a loyal servant of Pelor. I think both of you are bad, especially in that you have very similar voting records.

Does that count as not tunneling?

So you halfway agree that a mass claim would help mafia more than hurt them but you're still up for pressuring those that haven't claimed yet to claim just because they look "infinitely more suspicious" if they don't at this point, just because they're the minority now? You're getting my vote.

You misunderstand me.

If we had all mass claimed at the same time a few days ago, then there would be no accountability and it would have helped Mafia. Yesterday, after LoRab already came out as a cylon and was the one on the chopping block, it would HURT Mafia more if everyone had claimed yesterday.

I'm not suspecting you right now, and hadn't been FYI. Vote for me if you want, but look at the strategy behind everyone claiming yesterday. Dismissing that strategy, because it logically is very viable, is not a good look.

Or at least help me understand why the last 9 people who haven't claimed should hold off from here on and how that helps Mafia if they do. I really want to understand your mindset.

Scotty, just fyi there are only 7 who haven't claimed according to Polo's last list.

Polo wrote:I'm not ever going to give people a civ pass for claiming, but be damn sure that the evil Cylons aren't okay with losing their first lynch immunity.
Most people have already used up their claim; do you want to let Cavil and his toaster pals get the upper hand? Frakking hell.

It's not that simple and you know it. Why are you acting otherwise?

Scotty wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Scotty wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I've been over this. A mass claim will help mafia more than hurt them.

I would halfway agree with you.

However, people have staggered their claims over the past 2 days. LoRab claimed yesterday, which is why her CPU was turned off today.

It was actually a BOON for everyone to mass claim yesterday because LoRab was going to die either way you looked at it. That way, no one could hold on to their potential immunity.

So two days ago, I would have agreed whole-heartedly. Now? There's only a few that haven't claimed. And they look infinitely more suspicious.

And hey sig,
I'll stop tunneling on you a sec. Glorf is down right making you out to be the sun god while he a loyal servant of Pelor. I think both of you are bad, especially in that you have very similar voting records.

Does that count as not tunneling?

So you halfway agree that a mass claim would help mafia more than hurt them but you're still up for pressuring those that haven't claimed yet to claim just because they look "infinitely more suspicious" if they don't at this point, just because they're the minority now? You're getting my vote.

You misunderstand me.

If we had all mass claimed at the same time a few days ago, then there would be no accountability and it would have helped Mafia. Yesterday, after LoRab already came out as a cylon and was the one on the chopping block, it would HURT Mafia more if everyone had claimed yesterday.

I'm not suspecting you right now, and hadn't been FYI. Vote for me if you want, but look at the strategy behind everyone claiming yesterday. Dismissing that strategy, because it logically is very viable, is not a good look.

Or at least help me understand why the last 9 people who haven't claimed should hold off from here on and how that helps Mafia if they do. I really want to understand your mindset.

Do you want to understand my mindset or do you just want me to spill whatever I need to spill to benefit you and your teammates?

On a serious note that was just a pressure statement and you responded to it very well, so I won't be coming after you or anything. However, I cannot help you understand why those who have yet to claim shouldn't claim (and additionally why those that have already claimed probably shouldn't have) because my reasoning behind it is sensitive and has been extremely vague in-thread for a reason.

juliets wrote:Scotty, just fyi there are only 7 who haven't claimed according to Polo's last list.

Actually it's 8, I may have forgotten to count Epig.

Polo wrote:I'm not ever going to give people a civ pass for claiming, but be damn sure that the evil Cylons aren't okay with losing their first lynch immunity.
Most people have already used up their claim; do you want to let Cavil and his toaster pals get the upper hand? Frakking hell.

I just find your logic to be too closed minded. They have the upper hand no matter what and I am not going to waste precious time just spending my votes in an effort to get people (whose alignment I don't know) to use up their lynch immunity for the rest of the game, while giving others time to sit back on their rumps and let us do so. I'm still going to baddie hunt, I'm just not going to limit myself to just those who haven't claimed because I am not convinced that everyone who has claimed must be civ and everyone who hasn't must be bad. I'm not sure they all are. I know why it looks bad for them, but it won't be the only factor I base a vote upon. And I think it is damaging for us to all do so. Because then you effectually give them a lynch immunity anyway because you may be wasting time on the wrong people. All I a, asking is take their whole game into account instead of this one little part and asking us to just vote for someone who hasn't claimed. I may do so, but you can be damn sure it won't simply because they didn't claim. It will because I've looked at the whole picture and I suspect them as a result. That is all I am saying polo.

Spacedaisy wrote:

Polo wrote:I'm not ever going to give people a civ pass for claiming, but be damn sure that the evil Cylons aren't okay with losing their first lynch immunity.
Most people have already used up their claim; do you want to let Cavil and his toaster pals get the upper hand? Frakking hell.

I just find your logic to be too closed minded. They have the upper hand no matter what and I am not going to waste precious time just spending my votes in an effort to get people (whose alignment I don't know) to use up their lynch immunity for the rest of the game, while giving others time to sit back on their rumps and let us do so. I'm still going to baddie hunt, I'm just not going to limit myself to just those who haven't claimed because I am not convinced that everyone who has claimed must be civ and everyone who hasn't must be bad. I'm not sure they all are. I know why it looks bad for them, but it won't be the only factor I base a vote upon. And I think it is damaging for us to all do so. Because then you effectually give them a lynch immunity anyway because you may be wasting time on the wrong people. All I a, asking is take their whole game into account instead of this one little part and asking us to just vote for someone who hasn't claimed. I may do so, but you can be damn sure it won't simply because they didn't claim. It will because I've looked at the whole picture and I suspect them as a result. That is all I am saying polo.

#PREACH

Resurrection is good for the health.

Look, that is not the only reason for suspecting people; it is major factor but of course not the only one. Take Glorfindel's vote record and behavior, for example, and add to that the fact that he hasn't claimed yet.

Polo wrote:Tomorrow I'd like to lynch one of those who haven't claimed yet for I am sure that Cavil is among them.

Tomorrow (if alive of cors) I'd like to lynch Long Con. Or sig. Bea less so, after this latest claim/hint bizz.

Polo wrote:

juliets wrote:Scotty, just fyi there are only 7 who haven't claimed according to Polo's last list.

Actually it's 8, I may have forgotten to count Epig.

Oh ok Polo thanks for the update.

juliets wrote:

Polo wrote:

juliets wrote:Scotty, just fyi there are only 7 who haven't claimed according to Polo's last list.

Actually it's 8, I may have forgotten to count Epig.

Oh ok Polo thanks for the update.

I can't tell if "thanks for the update" is sarcastic or not.

a2thezebra wrote:

juliets wrote:

Polo wrote:

juliets wrote:Scotty, just fyi there are only 7 who haven't claimed according to Polo's last list.

Actually it's 8, I may have forgotten to count Epig.

Oh ok Polo thanks for the update.

I can't tell if "thanks for the update" is sarcastic or not.

No, not at all.

Okay just making sure, I'm desensitized and all.

Long Con wrote:The only players with a reason to want Cain dead are Cylons.

Catching up, I still have 11 pages and gotta leave for work in about 3 hours...jeez...

Anyway, wanted to stop here because...

This is not true. I will go so far as to say that I don't officially need Cain's head on a stick, but I'd sure love to see it anyway.

ADAMA or BUST

Ricochet wrote:Tomorrow (if alive of cors) I'd like to lynch Long Con.

I'm on board with that. Moreover, anyone of a like mind should cast their vote early. If LC is Cain, as I believe, he has the authority to order a premature jump. Making him the leader in votes before the day is half over will prevent that from happening.

A Long Con lynch will be disastrous.

The Cylon Amnesty Act sure sucks, but it happened and we need everyone to claim in order to make it ineffective.

Dex wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Tomorrow (if alive of cors) I'd like to lynch Long Con.

I'm on board with that. Moreover, anyone of a like mind should cast their vote early. If LC is Cain, as I believe, he has the authority to order a premature jump. Making him the leader in votes before the day is half over will prevent that from happening.

But I'm lynching him for being a Cylon.

Dex wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Tomorrow (if alive of cors) I'd like to lynch Long Con.

I'm on board with that. Moreover, anyone of a like mind should cast their vote early. If LC is Cain, as I believe, he has the authority to order a premature jump. Making him the leader in votes before the day is half over will prevent that from happening.

Now this is a statement I can understand. I can see LC possibly being Cain. I marked him as good in my GTH reads, but I can see getting rid of him based on him being Cain. I don't think he is a cylon though. I don't like the change in my win con as a result of Cain.

a2thezebra wrote:A Long Con lynch will be disastrous.

zebra what are you thinking about when you say this?

Do you want to lynch Cavil first or Cain first?

Ricochet wrote:But I'm lynching him for being a Cylon.

That's fine, just vote for him early.

sig wrote:I don't feel like claiming cylon right now, and I'm not going to be pressured into it when the people attempting to pressure me into it don't care if Epi an outted cylon doesn't do it.

Still catching up, for all I know you eventually claim, but this is not true.

I'd like you to claim and I also care that Epi doesn't do it. I'd like him to claim too.

Also, so I don't forget, and again someone might've already updated the list but so far G-Man and juliets have claimed since my last Cylon Claim update.

Dex wrote:

Ricochet wrote:But I'm lynching him for being a Cylon.

That's fine, just vote for him early.

It takes more to lynch 'im. Also, Cain would jump a fleet to mess with the lynch of a Cylon?

a2thezebra wrote:A Long Con lynch will be disastrous.

Please spell it out to me like I'm a 5 year old: why?

I'd appreciate it if you could do the same for your complaints about the cylon claim mania.

Scotty if I was a baddie with Glorfindel I'd have killed him for such an obvious link. :P

I think he's a civ this game. Though I do believe he could be wrong about zebra.

Ricochet wrote:Glorfindel circumventing lynching a Cylon so much is starting to make my nose twitch.

I'm just trying to catch up this morning and saw this... I'm sorry Rico but I don't understand what it is you're referring to here Also...
Is anyone here experiencing difficulties accessing this site? It started off sporadically at the start of this game but is becoming more frequent messages saying "Server not found" when I try to log in. I'm not experiencing this with any other site...

You guys will be wasting a lynch that could get you an actual baddie if you lynch me. You will literally be wasting a lynch and you will be one lynch behind come endgame when it matters. I can prove it if you just give me a little time. You seriously do not need to lynch me for any reason unless you are a Cylon.

Long Con wrote:You guys will be wasting a lynch that could get you an actual baddie if you lynch me. You will literally be wasting a lynch and you will be one lynch behind come endgame when it matters. I can prove it if you just give me a little time. You seriously do not need to lynch me for any reason unless you are a Cylon.

What is your opinion of what I said earlier regarding Bea and OA?

Glorfindel wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Glorfindel circumventing lynching a Cylon so much is starting to make my nose twitch.

I'm just trying to catch up this morning and saw this... I'm sorry Rico but I don't understand what it is you're referring to here Also...
Is anyone here experiencing difficulties accessing this site? It started off sporadically at the start of this game but is becoming more frequent messages saying "Server not found" when I try to log in. I'm not experiencing this with any other site...

Day Two, Cylon nutella gets lynched, you drop a last vote on a long meaningless counterwagon.
Day Three, Cylon LoRab is outed, you resort to the counterwagon this time and mislynch a civilian.
Day Four, Cylon LoRab is lynched, you vote a mile away from the main action on Wilgy.

Ricochet wrote:

Long Con wrote:Cool gun to head exercise, and cool lynch result.

It's pretty suspicious that no one questioned the main Cylons being baddies until Lorab flipped... and then suddenly theories start coming out where half of them are good. Where were those people when I made my list days ago? I saw Rico tried to put a bit more suspicion my way because of it, so I hope others are noting that kind of thing as well.

I think the distinction between human-friendly Cylons and final five-friendly Cylons is important, and I imagine that the final five might play a big part of some win conditions, giving this mysterious game a lot more complications than a regular civ baddie dynamic.

So as an update of the plan that no one has commented on but I hope to God can work... the president should exempt the final five and athena from the martial law.

Linki agreed on Glorfindel

I questioned some main Cylons being baddies before. I think I even brought up Anna once. And yes your list had Anna resolutely bad. In fact the only non-baddie Cylon you admitted as likelihood was Caprica Six. Now you find it suspicious that people never bothered with thinking otherwise?

Also, do you think the President can override martial law? That's not how martial law usually works.

Caprica Six and Athena, of course.

Looking back, "suspicious" was a loaded word to use. I don't mean I suspect those people of being a Cylon, I mean I suspect those people of believing they personally need me gone, not for any Civ-minded reasons, by which I mean reasons that are remotely helpful to the humans in the fleet.

I think that the President has shown a considerable amount of power already, and that it's possible that she could not *override* martial law, but just altering it with a Presidential Amendment. I think that's totally reasonable.