The Syndicate

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:21 pm

112 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:19 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:17 pm Haha 112 wildcard I made an funny joak

Haha is this a wolf claim haha!



@tutuu 112 was scum that won in f3 in the champs s6 "wildcard" game (basically the equivalent to semifinals this year)

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:05 am The Gambit Demon has bargained with me.

Here is the reference post outlining the Gambit Demon's role, as stated in the OP. It is a third-party role.

-Gambit Demon: During the day, select a player to bargain with. You will join a chat with the player who can choose to accept your help *SECRETS*

On Day 0, the Gambit Demon selected me as the target, and has revealed their identity to me. They have performed a full claim to me, listing every detail about their role and win condition, and assured me that they intend to townside this game because it helps them fulfil their win condition. I will not be revealing the Gambit Demon's identity right now, because the Mafia Obliterator has a soupkill.

In the spoilers below, I will set out what the Gambit Demon's roleclaim is, how we can use it to our advantage, and ways to protect against deception or treachery by the Demon.

Spoiler: show

Here is what the Gambit Demon claims their role does.

1) As stated in the OP, they can select a player to bargain with, and gain BTSC with them.
2) When a player is being bargained with, they may choose at night to gain more power by striking a deal with the demon. This grants them a power role, but comes at a cost.
3) The first time they strike a deal, they gain a roleblock, but their vote is reduced to 0 the next day. This is "tier 1".
4)The second time they strike a deal is "tier 2", giving them the ability to swap places with another player (ie. a Bus Driver ability), at the cost of having all abilities directed at the Gambit Demon redirect to them instead.
5) The third time is "tier 3", and kills them instantly but allows them to either kill or protect any other player.

This is a mere claim; the Gambit Demon can be lying about any part of this.

The Gambit Demon claims that their win condition is to have any person either take the tier 3 deal, OR strike 7 deals in total. That means that there must be seven instances of a person accepting a power - it could be 3 players going up to tier 2 and a third going up to tier 1, or 7 different players going up to tier 1, or any combination that lets them get up to 7 deals struck in total.

I have very good reasons to believe this win condition is the absolute truth. I think it is imprudent to specify those reasons, but I will ask you to take it on faith that they're being honest about that part - there aren't any booby traps, or "everyone who strikes a deal with the demon ends up getting killed" things going on with this. They just have to get one person to tier 3 or seven people to tier 1, and then they win and can check out of the thread.

Spoiler: show

I believe there is a way for us to use the Gambit Demon's role to our advantage. I will outline briefly the plan here. Naturally there will be concern about betrayal on the part of the Demon. These concerns will be dealt with in the third spoiler, "Protections against treachery". The plan is as follows.

1) I will personally select a player who I trust to be town. The Gambit Demon will offer them a bargain, opening BTSC with them. I myself will strike a deal with the Demon for the tier 1 benefit, and so will the player who they contact.

2) In this manner, two players that I trust to be town will gain a power role (roleblock). Then, we will select another player who we trust to be town, possibly with input from the rest of the thread. This player will also take a tier 1 power.

3) This process repeats, with a new consensus town player selected each night, and taking powers. This part is very important: NO PLAYER WILL TAKE ANY POWER BEYOND TIER 1. Tier 1 is the power that runs the least chance of a catastrophic booby trap implanted in it, as it is hardly likely for the host to inflict severe penalties on someone who accepts a single night's bargain. The downside is not particularly relevant, especially this early in the game. More importantly, it is crucial to the strategy I have devised for protecting against the Demon's treachery that nobody take more than 1 tier of power. I repeat: [color=]ACCEPT THE FIRST DEAL, AND NO MORE[/color]. Don't get greedy and try to make a hero bus driver shot and ruin everything.

4) The sum result of this is that we will essentially turn the Gambit Demon into machine that generates one free roleblock shot every night, to be handed out to people deemed consensus town. Because it is public who the roleblocks are given to, they are held accountable for their shots. That means if we accidentally misclear a wolf and give them a roleblock, they're obliged to use it on someone the town thinks they should use it on, rather than roleblocking a town player or claimed PR.

5) The Gambit Demon has agreed to this plan, because this allows them to get seven bargains struck fairly easily and fulfil their win condition.

Spoiler: show

Now, a name like "Gambit Demon" doesn't exactly inspire suspicion, and neither does the thought of striking mysterious "deals" with them. However, there is no need to worry, as I have devised two strategies to ensure that the Gambit Demon is incentivized to side with town and to obediently hand out roleblocker shots to whoever we agree should get it.

Strategy One: The Leash
Because my plan involves no player taking a power beyond tier 1, the Gambit Demon will have to give seven different players a tier 1 power in order to win. This means that we are essentially putting a leash on them, forcing them to work with us and give players we select a tier 1 power over the course of 7 days. By controlling the circumstances in which the Gambit Demon is permitted to win, and ensuring that they won't actually achieve their win condition until later in the game, we force them to side with us early in the game in order to reach that win condition. This protects against scumsiding, and also against situations where the Gambit Demon achieves their win condition and is free to rampage around the thread causing chaos as they please.

Strategy Two: The Dead Man's Switch
One of my major concerns when constructing this strategy was the possibility of the bargain being more Faustian than expected - perhaps taking a power would have some negative side effect inflicted on me that the Demon has chosen not to disclose. Or perhaps the Demon would get some measure of power over me as a player if I take their bargain. Or perhaps they're simply lying about some aspects of their role claim (remember, I have reason to believe that their win condition is accurate, but not that their role claim is) and can't be trusted.

For this reason, I have established a Dead Man's Switch strategy that allows the Gambit Demon's role to be kept secret (to protect them from being killed by the Obliterator) if they cooperate, but leaked to the rest of the thread if and only if something goes wrong. They are incentivized to make sure this does not happen, because if their identity is leaked, they will be killed either by the Obliterator or by townies, and therefore be unable to achieve their win condition (which is why the Leash is important for keeping them in line, by allowing us to hold this Damocles' Doom over their head).

The strategy is as follows. When the Gambit Demon contacts a player to offer a bargain to them, they gain BTSC with that player. (Remember, this is a player that's been agreed on to be unimpeachably town by the rest of the thread.) As stated in the plan, they will accept the deal and again the tier 1 roleblocking power. They will also, at the same time, establish the Gambit Demon's identity. This can be done in a multitude of ways, or as the player sees fit. If you don't have a better way, the Gambit Demon will tell you what method I used to establish their identity and then have you use it to prove their identity to you.

Under ordinary circumstances, the Gambit Demon's identity is to be kept secret to protect against Obliterator. But if anything goes wrong, the players who know the Gambit Demon's identity will reveal it to the thread, and the town will then execute them, preventing them from completing their win condition. The threat of this will keep the Gambit Demon in line. Things going wrong include: the Gambit Demon not offering a bargain to the person we agreed on, an undeclared negative side effect happening on people who took deals, the people who took deals previously dropping dead without a good explanation for why, or any other evidence of foul play or treachery.

If we have falsely cleared a wolf, and wrongly selected scum to receive the Gambit Demon's bargain, then scum will be privy to the knowledge of who the Gambit Demon is. If the Gambit Demon themselves dies under suspicious circumstances (eg. the Obliterator's soup kill), then we will know that one of the people who we trusted enough to give a roleblock to was a deepwolf in disguise. This is still a positive development for us, because it proves the existence of a deepwolf while we have already gotten to reap some benefits from the Gambit Demon (in the form of giving townies free roleblocks). If the mafia want to waste their nightkill on a 3P slot and work to pass it off as something other than a Gambit Demon snipe (which would out the existence of a deepwolf), that is also fine by me.

If there are any objections or flaws with this plan, let me know.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:44 pm No martin took tier 3 and killed made we figured this out already lol

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:44 pm no no lol

I think Martin took Tier 2 on N3, the night Falcon was supposed to get it. That's why he was insisting on not needing to clear up why GD went off plan. On N4, he took tier 3 and suicided with Made

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:44 pm i am one with the town. i am one with the mafia. i am the 3p. i am the 4p. i am the 5p. i am transcended thru role and alignment. i pull words and letters from mafia posts towards me, like a gravitational black hole, twisting and turning them, and making something new. somethin beautiful

i am the monkey that wrote romeo and juliet on a typewriter. the one in the million. with one hand

i have written the greatest mafia post in the entire world. this? this aint it. this is just a tribute

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:49 pm I am kinda confused by that quoted post of Alison's tho. I mean someone accepted the tier 3 deal, when he said he wouldn't ask them to do that? What if Martin didn't want to accept that deal, but he was given no choice?

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:00 am i mean hell, i could even be fakeclaiming here (im not) and thundercat would be outed wolf by his lack of reaction and going in anti-spewing

C O W A R D L Y

W O L V E S

D E S E R V E

T O

L O S E

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:48 pm I don't think you can make the greatest mafia post in the world without striking a bargain with the gambit demon first

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:49 pm I am kinda confused by that quoted post of Alison's tho. I mean someone accepted the tier 3 deal, when he said he wouldn't ask them to do that? What if Martin didn't want to accept that deal, but he was given no choice?

Grand Scheme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:36 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:48 pm I don't think you can make the greatest mafia post in the world without striking a bargain with the gambit demon first

Make the best post in the world, or I'll eat your soul...

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:49 pm I am kinda confused by that quoted post of Alison's tho. I mean someone accepted the tier 3 deal, when he said he wouldn't ask them to do that? What if Martin didn't want to accept that deal, but he was given no choice?

Grand Scheme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:49 pm One of the top all-time songs.

Joe Who? wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:53 pm

Grand Scheme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:49 pm One of the top all-time songs.

Grand Scheme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:55 pm

Joe Who? wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:53 pm

Grand Scheme wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:49 pm One of the top all-time songs.

Nice, a musically-advanced agreement!

112 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:26 pm @KZA can you explain your thoughts on the game as though you're a hockey player being interviewed?

also why do you sus me i'm townier than nutella pretty much

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:50 pm Nova continually insisting people claim 'because the obliterator isn't even that big of a deal' hardcore undercover cop at a highschool vibes

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:52 pm "how do you do, fellow towns? what are your plans this weekend? is anyone else going to reveal their role? everyone's doing it, don't be a square."

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:49 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:50 pm Nova continually insisting people claim 'because the obliterator isn't even that big of a deal' hardcore undercover cop at a highschool vibes

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:52 pm "how do you do, fellow towns? what are your plans this weekend? is anyone else going to reveal their role? everyone's doing it, don't be a square."

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:27 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:49 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:50 pm Nova continually insisting people claim 'because the obliterator isn't even that big of a deal' hardcore undercover cop at a highschool vibes

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:52 pm "how do you do, fellow towns? what are your plans this weekend? is anyone else going to reveal their role? everyone's doing it, don't be a square."

only thing i'm obsessed with is the pursuit of justice

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:20 pm @Grand Scheme strike a deal with me tonight plssss

KZA wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:31 pm Still flipping 112 unless anyone has a serious objection

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:01 pm So what happens if we lynch Thundercat, someone goes missing?