The Syndicate

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:39 pm**

mafia should have standardized rules. i have proposed we make a rule set for the syndicate and that was kind of rejected.

its cheating because the game "mafia" is supposed to be uninformed majority vs informed minority. anything else devolves from the game, its no longer mafia. if you happen to rand the minority (mafia) but you selfishly remove your TMI by not reading your role PM, it's like you're town, it's not fair towards the other players. like even if the overall winrate stays the same, on principle, its not fair towards the other players, its dirty

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm**

my post got eaten by automatic log out bleh

your thoughts on this topic are valid but not official

standardized rules would risk alienating players crossing over from new communities and stifle the creativity of hosts who want to introduce rule variations

and while this whole idea has been basically a joke from the start, I think disagree with you on principle that it would create an unfair advantage for the person doing it. In the situation you brought up where you roll mafia, it's not exactly 'like you're town' cus you'd still have teammates and everything else, you'd risk being bussed by or bussing, and you risk needing to change your approach toward players once you do eventually check your role pm, all it does is give you help on putting yourself in the mindset of a townsperson, which is something you should already be doing in the first place, at the cost of collusion. From other players it's no better or worse than posting in just emojis.

plus in most games the strategy would only last 48 hours by default. I think calling it "cheating" to not read your role PM is a little hyperbolic

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm**

If someone were to Never read their role PMs at any time in any game obviously that would be a problem

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:52 pm**

i never claimed my thoughts are official not sure where'd that come from. they are unofficial but truthful at the same time! hosts can still override whatever they want i dont see the issue in that suggestion. but back to the original topic, ur maybe right that calling it cheating is hyperbolic since it doesnt necessarily give u an advantage if we think result-oriented. on principle it gives you the advantage that you get to overcome the biggest hurdle - knowing who is town so u dont need to fake solving. u can do real solving. its not just about knowing ur teammates, if u play normally u know the town too, everything u do has got to be faked and manufactured, thats the point of playing as scum. instead of "cheating" ill settle for "obnoxious" or "insufferable" or "unsportsmanlike". some sites ban you for doing it and i think it makes sense why they do so

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:33 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm From other players it's no better or worse than posting in just emojis.

disagree. if you were truthful that u haven't read ur role pm and u claimed this on day 0, then what u said here is the true. ur basically not rly a player yet. so u could associate that with posting in emoji

but if you deceive the other players and not reveal that you haven't read your role pm, they would make the natural assumption that you indeed have read it. if they are good players, they will correctly identify that you don't have TMI / aren't informed, therefore you are town. so if you happen to be mafia, you would be punishing other players for playing good, hence, u know

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:04 pm**

I agree with basically all of that, except I think annoying or insufferable is also overdoing it. I don't think you'd even be able to tell if it was already happening.

I want to clarify, because sometimes I'm bad at tone on the interne, but I have no negative feelings resulting or causing this conversation I'm actually just interested in your perspective on this because I think some of our core ideas seem to differ.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:18 pm**

I thought about it from an outside perspective for like 30 seconds and actually you're 100% right

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:33 pm**

high five :P

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:18 pm**

insert hi-5 emoji here

I think if I as a player were fooled by someone using that tactic once I'd be like "haha wow what a cool trick" but the moment someone else tried it or the same person did it twice I'd be definitely tired of it.

also anyone who can go a day or more without reading their role PM is a monster in the first place. No one has that kind of willpower

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:32 pm**

I love me some Spider-man and into the spider-verse was such a good movie!

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:35 pm**

Omg! You put Morlun in this game!! Ahhhhh that's so awesome!

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:30 am**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm my post got eaten by automatic log out bleh

your thoughts on this topic are valid but not official

standardized rules would risk alienating players crossing over from new communities and stifle the creativity of hosts who want to introduce rule variations

and while this whole idea has been basically a joke from the start, I think disagree with you on principle that it would create an unfair advantage for the person doing it. In the situation you brought up where you roll mafia, it's not exactly 'like you're town' cus you'd still have teammates and everything else, you'd risk being bussed by or bussing, and you risk needing to change your approach toward players once you do eventually check your role pm, all it does is give you help on putting yourself in the mindset of a townsperson, which is something you should already be doing in the first place, at the cost of collusion. From other players it's no better or worse than posting in just emojis.

plus in most games the strategy would only last 48 hours by default. I think calling it "cheating" to not read your role PM is a little hyperbolic

just for the record, on MU it's considered cheating to the point where the forum software does not allow you to post in the game if you haven't clicked on a confirmation link in your role PM

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:34 am**

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:30 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm my post got eaten by automatic log out bleh

your thoughts on this topic are valid but not official

standardized rules would risk alienating players crossing over from new communities and stifle the creativity of hosts who want to introduce rule variations

and while this whole idea has been basically a joke from the start, I think disagree with you on principle that it would create an unfair advantage for the person doing it. In the situation you brought up where you roll mafia, it's not exactly 'like you're town' cus you'd still have teammates and everything else, you'd risk being bussed by or bussing, and you risk needing to change your approach toward players once you do eventually check your role pm, all it does is give you help on putting yourself in the mindset of a townsperson, which is something you should already be doing in the first place, at the cost of collusion. From other players it's no better or worse than posting in just emojis.

plus in most games the strategy would only last 48 hours by default. I think calling it "cheating" to not read your role PM is a little hyperbolic
just for the record, on MU it's considered cheating to the point where the forum software does not allow you to post in the game if you haven't clicked on a confirmation link in your role PM

I played in 3 champs games and failed to click on that button 3 times.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:36 am**

Not reading role pm is against the spirit of the game. Whether or not that should be considered cheating, idk. I would not want someone to do it in a game that I was hosting.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:00 am**

hm... this has been enlightening to me, i'm not sure what to make of it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:05 am**

how often do you think about your role/alignment/teammates when you're posting?

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:06 am**

like... on purpose, I mean

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:09 am**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:05 am how often do you think about your role/alignment/teammates when you're posting?

If I’m town I never actively think about it. Very rarely if I have a specific strategy involving my specific role, I’ll do something different, but mostly I treat every game as if I’m vanilla town.
If I’m mafia I try to think about it as little as possible on Day 1, but then it’s a main focus every day after that.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:17 am**

so you'll build a case on day 3 and think "this is a mafia sloonei case"

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:22 am**

maybe that's what's wrong with my scum meta, maybe I'd be better if I were more actively shady.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:24 am**

maybe my town meta would be stronger if I were more actively shady there too

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:31 am**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:17 am so you'll build a case on day 3 and think "this is a mafia sloonei case"

I grow a mustache whenever I'm mafia so that I may twirl it sinisterly.

But it's more like I'll let my team's agenda dictate what pushes and cases I make. I think I've gotten better at making my fake cases look authentic (or I've gotten more used to typing up arguments I don't actually believe in in town games and for uh academic purposes), so it's not like I'm cackling at my nefarious words, it's more that I'm blocking off certain roads and going down different ones than I normally would when I'm bad.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:40 am**

hm i see

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:41 am**

i have been mafia once in the last 4 years and i accidentally outed myself at the first given opportunity so i may be a little rusty

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:04 am**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:35 pm Omg! You put Morlun in this game!! Ahhhhh that's so awesome!

More than just Morlun... you must have read the earlier appearances of Morlun, before Spider-verse started? If so, that's very legit.

Have you read Spider-verse? If not, then you can read a compilation here, though there are some criticisms about the issue order. Also, on that site, you can get a more complete read by finding specific issues based on this Reading Order.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:50 am**

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:04 am
sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:35 pm Omg! You put Morlun in this game!! Ahhhhh that's so awesome!
More than just Morlun... you must have read the earlier appearances of Morlun, before Spider-verse started? If so, that's very legit.

Have you read Spider-verse? If not, then you can read a compilation here, though there are some criticisms about the issue order. Also, on that site, you can get a more complete read by finding specific issues based on this Reading Order.

Yeah he ate Spider-man's eye! Haha I used to play heroclix and Morlun was one of my go to characters to use. I've got so much to catch up on reading, but I will check this out. Thanks!

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:50 pm**

I just have been killed n1 in a game tryharding as town.

So im interested in another game, how many players are supposed to play in this game?

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:07 pm**

Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:50 pm I just have been killed n1 in a game tryharding as town.

So im interested in another game, how many players are supposed to play in this game?

Hoping for 30!

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:04 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:07 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:50 pm I just have been killed n1 in a game tryharding as town.

So im interested in another game, how many players are supposed to play in this game?
Hoping for 30!

Really

?

I cant stand that in english right now, radiohead show me that.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:02 am**

broke my rule and read the roles, i have 3 questions:

What is "the scion"

i am immediately interested in the universe where spiderman is a grandfather and clint barton is his son in law

thank you for including Silk in the game, and also I am amazed at the amount of information and disinformation involved in this game it's going to be a wonderful mess of deception and i'm here for it

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:03 am**

actually only one of those things was a question, sorry

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:47 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:02 am broke my rule and read the roles, i have 3 questions:

What is "the scion"

i am immediately interested in the universe where spiderman is a grandfather and clint barton is his son in law

thank you for including Silk in the game, and also I am amazed at the amount of information and disinformation involved in this game it's going to be a wonderful mess of deception and i'm here for it

I'm hoping for some glorious errors of judgment in this one for sure!

The Scion... I do need to flesh that out a bit more. Storywise, the Scion is a baby that is 1/3 of an Inheritor prophecy/ritual to stop Spider-totems from being born (which actually makes no sense and I never thought about that particular glaring plot flaw before. WTF??).

Anyhoo, the Scion is Ashley Barton's baby brother, so she starts off in custody of the Scion. If the Inheritors kill her, they get The Scion, then they only need to kill The Bride and The Other to get a two-kill night. Ashley can give the Scion to someone else if she wants, to keep him safe. If she passes him to an Inheritor, then of course they get that freebie.

I guess Ashley is a bit of a weaker role. Maybe The Scion should grant some sort of boon to the one who holds it.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:37 pm**

so functionally speaking the Scion is just like a football, from the game "Football"

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:00 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:37 pm so functionally speaking the Scion is just like a football, from the game "Football"

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:16 am**

I dont think this game is winnable if you rand mafia here. All town gotta do is to mass claim no?

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:25 am**

Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:16 am I dont think this game is winnable if you rand mafia here. All town gotta do is to mass claim no?

there’s a soup kill so outright mass claiming won’t work

but yes, strictly speaking there’s nothing stopping every villager who’s about to get mislimed from claiming their role and clearing themselves

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:34 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:25 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:16 am I dont think this game is winnable if you rand mafia here. All town gotta do is to mass claim no?
there’s a soup kill so outright mass claiming won’t work

but yes, strictly speaking there’s nothing stopping every villager who’s about to get mislimed from claiming their role and clearing themselves

Interesting, i didnt know there was such mechanic as the soup kill. It's like flavor vigilante on steroids.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:43 pm**

also role claiming is boring and dishonorable so even without the soup kill there is incentive not to claim

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:06 pm**

only cool and handsome people never roleclaim B)

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:19 pm**

Then im ugly and uncool as hell, i dont only roleclaim, i fps so i also fake claim lol.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:33 pm**

fake claiming is always cool and sexy

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:12 pm**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:33 pm fake claiming is always cool and sexy

Ooooh yah! I'm sesssssyyyyy

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:50 pm**

oh boy

what a setup

im def in

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:10 am**

MichaelScott wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:50 pm oh boy

what a setup

im def in

Welcome! We're halfway there!

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:28 am**

MichaelScott wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:50 pm oh boy

what a setup

im def in

yoooooooo

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:14 am**

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:39 pm mafia should have standardized rules. i have proposed we make a rule set for the syndicate and that was kind of rejected.

its cheating because the game "mafia" is supposed to be uninformed majority vs informed minority. anything else devolves from the game, its no longer mafia. if you happen to rand the minority (mafia) but you selfishly remove your TMI by not reading your role PM, it's like you're town, it's not fair towards the other players. like even if the overall winrate stays the same, on principle, its not fair towards the other players, its dirty

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:02 pm my post got eaten by automatic log out bleh

your thoughts on this topic are valid but not official

standardized rules would risk alienating players crossing over from new communities and stifle the creativity of hosts who want to introduce rule variations

and while this whole idea has been basically a joke from the start, I think disagree with you on principle that it would create an unfair advantage for the person doing it. In the situation you brought up where you roll mafia, it's not exactly 'like you're town' cus you'd still have teammates and everything else, you'd risk being bussed by or bussing, and you risk needing to change your approach toward players once you do eventually check your role pm, all it does is give you help on putting yourself in the mindset of a townsperson, which is something you should already be doing in the first place, at the cost of collusion. From other players it's no better or worse than posting in just emojis.

plus in most games the strategy would only last 48 hours by default. I think calling it "cheating" to not read your role PM is a little hyperbolic

me reading that people are allowed to do this and being slightly turned off from joining a game joining from another community ..

ya for sure its hella grimy to ignore role PM and good hosts will make ppl confirm their role when running a game

also to add, solo maf should be allowed to soup. if they win that way, awesome. I played a setup recently that relied on mafia using the soup mechanic.

on glance I think that this setup is really swingy and v complex role interaction wise. Setups like these are better when closed IMO.
I wanted to sign up for a game here but it seems this is the only thing in sign ups but uh, probably will pass until I see a setup I won't want to ragequit.

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:15 am**

also in games like this where all roles are unique and u have a soup kill there shouldn't be any reveal fwiw

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:37 am**

i've moved past this meme, but I'm surprised at how many people get so pearl clutching-ly offended at having nothing to go on.

If ya'll would grow up and just sharpen your psychic abilities maybe you wouldn't have that problem. RIP, I guess.

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:54 am**

DkKoba wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:14 amon glance I think that this setup is really swingy and v complex role interaction wise. Setups like these are better when closed IMO.
I wanted to sign up for a game here but it seems this is the only thing in sign ups but uh, probably will pass until I see a setup I won't want to ragequit.

long con games are notoriously full of intrigue and shenanigans, so i could see how they might scare someone who's only accustomed to playing basic bread and water games.

sad to see you go, but i look forward to playing with you in the future

Posted: **Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:09 am**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:54 am
DkKoba wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:14 amon glance I think that this setup is really swingy and v complex role interaction wise. Setups like these are better when closed IMO.
I wanted to sign up for a game here but it seems this is the only thing in sign ups but uh, probably will pass until I see a setup I won't want to ragequit.
long con games are notoriously full of intrigue and shenanigans, so i could see how they might scare someone who's only accustomed to playing basic bread and water games.

sad to see you go, but i look forward to playing with you in the future

I literally gave feedback on how to improve such a setup ... mafia are easily PoEd here. I helped craft role madness setups before and learned some lessons from that. This setup looks like by day 3 or 4 you have a clear idea whos going to win, which shouldn't be the case.

The Syndicate

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