Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[MartinGG99]

oh you already said orange. Why Orange over Gnome, martin?

More-so for group suspicion purposes.

The only notable "solving" I've done publicly has managed to kill someone who had the same role and alignment as me.

If that doesn't make a mockery of my confidence in my solving then I don't know what will.

I am the literal mafia world champion and i was on hawk's case from day 1. don't let one bad read weigh you down.

why is act town?

For most of the time I've felt that Nutella's SoD1 shade at Act was performative. Purely for shade. At first I thought it was towny hunting by Nut but she discontinued that, or at least didn't really repeat it in the same way. Which makes me feel worse about that interaction and that it spewing Act town.

I also haven't really gotten a ping from Act, like ever. I don't frequently see them as being very towny, but certainly not wolfy. Only time I've ever felt it may be them is if I was trying to world-build.

Eventually they made some sort of notable post on D3. I recall Alison commenting on it being towny and feeling reassured, on a slot I couldn't really pin down, I concurred as well.

[Guillotine]

When town leaders dont start dropping is because at least one of them is a deepwolf.

I understand that general perspective. Consider the circumstances anyway:

The mafia tried to kill someone on Night 1 and failed.

The mafia killed a bodyguard on Night 3, and there's a good chance they didn't intend to do so.

They also crammed me into a pseudo-killing death arena with Gavial.

I'm not saying Alison nor Mac can be deep. It's possible. But as of right now I don't think it's the most likely situation, surely not enough to justify our desperado shooting at them to make Guillotine feel more comfortable. Talk to me again in a few day phases, or if I am dead you can be certain others will be alive willing to entertain this stuff. The more you tinfoil though, the more you create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just stop it and let them get killed. You're begging the mafia to kill anyone else.

If one of them flip mafia, i will quote this post along with the one you where you tried to prevent Nutella's yeet, i will case you and i will bag you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't get the impression any PerC folks view orangecrush as town? Am I mistaken?

Where are you trying to get at?

I value their perspectives on their own. None of them read Owner as town either.

[Sloonei]

@MartinGG99 would you be able to do a trustfall exercise for both gnome and orange?

[Guillotine]

It is not about making me feel comfortable, im part of town and i wanna win.

Dont forget that you are talking to town here, J

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If one of them flip mafia, i will quote this post along with the one you where you tried to prevent Nutella's yeet, i will case you and i will bag you.

And I will lecture you post-game like a smarmy professor on exactly what you're failing to understand here.

Anyway, this conversation need not continue.

[Garden Gnome]

@MartinGG99 would you be able to do a trustfall exercise for both gnome and orange?

what is a trustfall exercise?

[Alison]

I would like to hear the case for Act not being aligned with nutella or owner

[Sloonei]

It is not about making me feel comfortable, im part of town and i wanna win.

Dont forget that you are talking to town here, J

Don't forget that the guy with the gun is town and will die if he shoots the wrong target.

[Sloonei]

@MartinGG99 would you be able to do a trustfall exercise for both gnome and orange?

what is a trustfall exercise?

Come up with arguments to town read the players in question.

Martin says you and Orange are his top two choices for me to shoot today. I want him to try to articulate a town read on each of you.

[Alison]

"people who use extra KP to assuage their low percentage tinfoils instead of clearing the POE are cowards" - confucius

[MartinGG99]

@MartinGG99 would you be able to do a trustfall exercise for both gnome and orange?

I've seen it before earlier this year but I suppose I could.

I've never done it before. Isn't trust just compiling what you town-read, then after that compiling what makes you distrust (scum read) them?

Or am I wrong? I also have no clue if anyone else's points on those slots are allowed.

[Sloonei]

@MartinGG99 would you be able to do a trustfall exercise for both gnome and orange?

I've seen it before earlier this year but I suppose I could.

I've never done it before. Isn't trust just compiling what you town-read, then after that compiling what makes you distrust (scum read) them?

Or am I wrong? I also have no clue if anyone else's points on those slots are allowed.

For now all I'm looking for is for you to come up with reasons why you might town read orange and gnome.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just ran down the player list and asked myself "is this player a good candidate to be mafia?" and allowed myself a rare opportunity for some shrugs.

Actvscenei - yes
Alison - no
Allcrab - maybe
bad bunny - maybe
Garden Gnome - yes
Guillotine - no
lost monkey - maybe
MacDougall - no
Made - yes
MartinGG99 - maybe
Nanook - no
orangecrush - yes
Sloonei - no
Seanzie - no
Tangrowth - no

Act, Gnome, Made, and OC seem to form my premier suspect tier. Allcrab, bad bunny, lost monkey, and MartinGG99 would have to round out whoever's missing. This doesn't take any third party into consideration.

Are at least three mafia not contained above? I ask whoever cares to ponder.

[Alison]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

[Guillotine]

"people who use extra KP to assuage their low percentage tinfoils instead of clearing the POE are cowards" - confucius

I wipe my ass with confucius

[Garden Gnome]

Just ran down the player list and asked myself "is this player a good candidate to be mafia?" and allowed myself a rare opportunity for some shrugs.

Actvscenei - yes
Alison - no
Allcrab - maybe
bad bunny - maybe
Garden Gnome - yes
Guillotine - no
lost monkey - maybe
MacDougall - no
Made - yes
MartinGG99 - maybe
Nanook - no
orangecrush - yes
Sloonei - no
Seanzie - no
Tangrowth - no

Act, Gnome, Made, and OC seem to form my premier suspect tier. Allcrab, bad bunny, lost monkey, and MartinGG99 would have to round out whoever's missing. This doesn't take any third party into consideration.

Are at least three mafia not contained above? I ask whoever cares to ponder.

Do you really think that it is possible for orangecrush and me to be teamed? I would suggest that orange's suspcion and scumreading of me has gone far beyond the usual distancing tactics that scum do with each other. This teaming that you've suggested seems to be highly unlikely, in my opinion.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I never got around to proper interactive reviews with Owner, and I am back at a computer. I'll take a look, and also at Twilight 2 since I only barely got glimpses of it in real time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do you really think that it is possible for orangecrush and me to be teamed? I would suggest that orange's suspcion and scumreading of me has gone far beyond the usual distancing tactics that scum do with each other. This teaming that you've suggested seems to be highly unlikely, in my opinion.

I haven't really paid any thought to the possibility of you two being mafia teammates -- rather just that you're both mafia suspects. I'll have to see how I feel about your interactions for myself.

[Guillotine]

Just ran down the player list and asked myself "is this player a good candidate to be mafia?" and allowed myself a rare opportunity for some shrugs.

Actvscenei - yes
Alison - no
Allcrab - maybe
bad bunny - maybe
Garden Gnome - yes
Guillotine - no
lost monkey - maybe
MacDougall - no
Made - yes
MartinGG99 - maybe
Nanook - no
orangecrush - yes
Sloonei - no
Seanzie - no
Tangrowth - no

Act, Gnome, Made, and OC seem to form my premier suspect tier. Allcrab, bad bunny, lost monkey, and MartinGG99 would have to round out whoever's missing. This doesn't take any third party into consideration.

Are at least three mafia not contained above? I ask whoever cares to ponder.

Actually yah. Shoot Act. I would shoot Act now that i think about it.

[Garden Gnome]

@MartinGG99 would you be able to do a trustfall exercise for both gnome and orange?

what is a trustfall exercise?

Come up with arguments to town read the players in question.

Martin says you and Orange are his top two choices for me to shoot today. I want him to try to articulate a town read on each of you.

oh, ok.
It's 1 a.m. here. Going to bed.
Please let me know what I need to do, and I will do it after I wake up.

[Alison]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

hello everyone i actualy only fecognise some of you but i am excited to play here

i have not been able to catch upw tith everything but i have started to

so far i have these people town: Act (though am becoming cautious with him the more i read), Jay, Tangrow, Guil, Dana, Alison (lesser town read)

If sloon is correct on act

And alison is town

This is a really really good readslist to come into the game with

Good enough that I don't want to shoot it

I don't find myself moved? The qualifiers on Act and Alison are meh and the others are predominantly consensus. The only leap of faith here is Dana.

[Garden Gnome]

Do you really think that it is possible for orangecrush and me to be teamed? I would suggest that orange's suspcion and scumreading of me has gone far beyond the usual distancing tactics that scum do with each other. This teaming that you've suggested seems to be highly unlikely, in my opinion.

I haven't really paid any thought to the possibility of you two being mafia teammates -- rather just that you're both mafia suspects. I'll have to see how I feel about your interactions for myself.

Checking our interactions would help you to read us better, in my opinion.
I noticed that orangecrush really hid behind the "I'm catching up" mode when I asked them why they scumread me. I don't think that I ever got a direct answer.

[Garden Gnome]

Do you really think that it is possible for orangecrush and me to be teamed? I would suggest that orange's suspcion and scumreading of me has gone far beyond the usual distancing tactics that scum do with each other. This teaming that you've suggested seems to be highly unlikely, in my opinion.

I haven't really paid any thought to the possibility of you two being mafia teammates -- rather just that you're both mafia suspects. I'll have to see how I feel about your interactions for myself.

Checking our interactions would help you to read us better, in my opinion.
I noticed that orangecrush really hid behind the "I'm catching up" mode when I asked them why they scumread me. I don't think that I ever got a direct answer.

[Garden Gnome]

Do you really think that it is possible for orangecrush and me to be teamed? I would suggest that orange's suspcion and scumreading of me has gone far beyond the usual distancing tactics that scum do with each other. This teaming that you've suggested seems to be highly unlikely, in my opinion.

I haven't really paid any thought to the possibility of you two being mafia teammates -- rather just that you're both mafia suspects. I'll have to see how I feel about your interactions for myself.

Checking our interactions would help you to read us better, in my opinion.
I noticed that orangecrush really hid behind the "I'm catching up" mode when I asked them why they scumread me. I don't think that I ever got a direct answer.

[Garden Gnome]

oops, that was a glitch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

It'd be more of a "two people have similar claims and even if they're true one could be mafia" thing. I think it's technically possible that Allcrab, a town watcher, corroborated the true results of a mafia lost monkey. I wouldn't call it the most likely thing.

[Guillotine]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

It'd be more of a "two people have similar claims and even if they're true one could be mafia" thing. I think it's technically possible that Allcrab, a town watcher, corroborated the true results of a mafia lost monkey. I wouldn't call it the most likely thing.

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall is nutella a hellbusser?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If lost monkey is removed from the pile then the POE is even tighter, so the general question remains: is there any mafioso outside that pile

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

It'd be more of a "two people have similar claims and even if they're true one could be mafia" thing. I think it's technically possible that Allcrab, a town watcher, corroborated the true results of a mafia lost monkey. I wouldn't call it the most likely thing.

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall is nutella a hellbusser?

I wouldn't reduce nutella to any single descriptor like that, but I do think she is capable of significant bussing. I think the more likely bussing/distancing from her on Day 1 would be in Act's direction though.

[Allcrab]

If lost monkey is removed from the pile then the POE is even tighter, so the general question remains: is there any mafioso outside that pile

The only one in that pile I question is I don't see anything that makes seanzie village.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If lost monkey is removed from the pile then the POE is even tighter, so the general question remains: is there any mafioso outside that pile

The only one in that pile I question is I don't see anything that makes seanzie village.

Okay, that's something worth discussing. Do you suspect Seanzie might have hard bussed Owner with false mechanics?

[Alison]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

It'd be more of a "two people have similar claims and even if they're true one could be mafia" thing. I think it's technically possible that Allcrab, a town watcher, corroborated the true results of a mafia lost monkey. I wouldn't call it the most likely thing.

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall is nutella a hellbusser?

I wouldn't reduce nutella to any single descriptor like that, but I do think she is capable of significant bussing. I think the more likely bussing/distancing from her on Day 1 would be in Act's direction though.

when i hydra'd with nutella in modern family we made a plan to bus TAT (the janitor), but when i went to play video games she CFDed elsewhere at EOD due to getting cold feet about the bus and wanting a townie to die

[Allcrab]

If lost monkey is removed from the pile then the POE is even tighter, so the general question remains: is there any mafioso outside that pile

The only one in that pile I question is I don't see anything that makes seanzie village.

Okay, that's something worth discussing. Do you suspect Seanzie might have hard bussed Owner with false mechanics?

I don't see why not if owner was gonna die anyway d2 votes on owner don't really mean anything the way d1 votes do.

[Guillotine]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

It'd be more of a "two people have similar claims and even if they're true one could be mafia" thing. I think it's technically possible that Allcrab, a town watcher, corroborated the true results of a mafia lost monkey. I wouldn't call it the most likely thing.

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall is nutella a hellbusser?

I wouldn't reduce nutella to any single descriptor like that, but I do think she is capable of significant bussing. I think the more likely bussing/distancing from her on Day 1 would be in Act's direction though.

I agree. To me Nutella spewed LoMo town by the way she pushed LoMo on day 1 for his yeet, unless Nutella hellbusses and i dont she does. If after game i find out she did, that'd be a big surprise for me because i hellbus when im scum sometimes, but not the way she pushed LoMo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If lost monkey is removed from the pile then the POE is even tighter, so the general question remains: is there any mafioso outside that pile

The only one in that pile I question is I don't see anything that makes seanzie village.

Okay, that's something worth discussing. Do you suspect Seanzie might have hard bussed Owner with false mechanics?

I don't see why not if owner was gonna die anyway d2 votes on owner don't really mean anything the way d1 votes do.

@Seanzie have a go

[Sloonei]

There's a few mid-Day 1 interactions in act's ISO that center around nutella and Owner concurrently. I suppose they merit conversation if we are wondering whether or not to rule act out as a teammate of theirs.

Spoiler: show

I've been calling things I agree with spicy for literal years now what is wrong with you people

Is anyone other than Owner suspecting you for the word “spicy?”

#1. nutella gripes about objections to her use of the word "spicy." Act observes that Owner seems to be the only person taking issue with "spicy", and prods nutella about this. My kneejerk reaction was that this is a fairly pointed question for one teammate to throw at another. There isn't really a positive way for nutella to spin this, and it also calls added attention onto another teammate (Owner) in the process. Seems like an odd and risky thing to do if act is mafia here.

Spoiler: show

I wanna kill nutella

why

she keeps pinging me, that spicy comment in particular was weird

Owner does that. She picks up on the smallest, seemingly strangest reasons to read people. With that said, it doesn’t usually seem this prominent...meaning, I feel like she’s laying it on thick right now. It feels manufactured in a “I know people know me for this type of game play so I should be doing that!”

For example: in the past, Owner used the word “interesting” as a scum tell for people. In another game, she used an avatar change as a scum tell. Now, I’m seeing her pick up on an odd word AND call out an avatar nearly back to back.

Realized you were talking about Nutella and not Owner here lol.

[/spoiler]#2. The most awkward for sure, Act responds to a read on nutella with a defense of Owner, thinking that she is the player being suspected. Promptly realizes her mistake and sheepishly ("lol") acknowledges it.
On the one hand we can twist ourselves into a big warm pretzel trying to workout the minefield of associatives here in which Mafia Act was too eager to defend Mafia Owner that she didn't even realize the player being accused was Mafia nutella. The gang's all here and it looks goofy.
On the other hand, that feels like too silly of a mistake to make if all three of them are partners. nutella is probably the one in more danger at this point, and the defense of Owner does not seem at all unreasonable given Act's apparent familiarity with her meta.
And on some level, this read suggests to me that Act is Actively in thought with regards to Owner. She has just asked nutella to elaborate on Owner's objection to the word "spicy." So Act associating Owner's name with "the spicy comment" is both natural and reasonable.

Spoiler: show

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

What do you mean it's not alignment indicative? The coffee tell on Dizzy was a pattern. Something very small could easily be another pattern. Do you not analyze patterns? A lot of stuff can be alignment indicative. It depends the players and certain variables, but they can be there.

I agree that small things can be part of a bigger pattern; however, until you start seeing that pattern with confirmed results, how can you call it alignment indicative? Have you seen Nutella play mafia games in which “spicy” was a word she only used as scum?

#3. Act raises a small objection to Owner's suspicion of nutella, prodding her to develop the read further. Taking this post in conjunction with the previous two, I come away with an impression that Act is trying to discover a town read on Owner while also feeling out a new-to-her (I think?) player in nutella. Post #1 is purely interrogative. Post #2 is a favorable assessment of Owner based on meta. Post #3 is a piece of constructive criticism for Owner's nutella read. Act treats the two flipped wolves very differently here, and I think there is a visible difference in where she is mentally with regards to each of them as well in this moment.

But I am open to an alternative version of events where Act suddenly found herself extra cognizant of her association with two of her teammates on Day 1 and tangled herself up in their mutual phony suspicion of one another: we already know that nutella and Owner staged their reads of one another. If two wolves are in on the act, why not a third?

[Sloonei]

pretend i didn't mess up the spoiler tags on the middle quote

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, general note:

Despite the twilight trolling, hawk did leave us with a whole pile of ISOs and analysis. We will not ignore it. It's rude and it's wasteful.

[Guillotine]

JJJ vote Martin please

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ vote Martin please

Why?

[Seanzie]

If lost monkey is removed from the pile then the POE is even tighter, so the general question remains: is there any mafioso outside that pile

The only one in that pile I question is I don't see anything that makes seanzie village.

Okay, that's something worth discussing. Do you suspect Seanzie might have hard bussed Owner with false mechanics?

I don't see why not if owner was gonna die anyway d2 votes on owner don't really mean anything the way d1 votes do.

@Seanzie have a go

What's there to have a go at? I asked Allcrab earlier about his read on me and he ignored me. Right now he seems to just not want to give me credit for things I've done. If he doesn't want to believe the wolfpelt I have thrown over my shoulder, or my general vibe in thread, he's either a wolf or town that isn't going to find me no matter what I do.

[Sloonei]

I suspected Alison Day 1 and then she was poisoned and I tossed my suspicion out the window, but now I am beginning to feel like the poisoner is a third party role.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeah, okay. Dana's town. Don't ask me why.

I went back to review this as you asked, and I am left shrugging. I think it's possible mafia interpreted Dana as a protective role there, but not conclusive. I think it's plausible you were the only one to do so. When she asked Nanook who might be killed, it was in direct response to him saying he didn't think he'd be killed. On its own that looks like Dana prodding Nanook to learn about Nanook. It's speculative so whatever.

Even if mafia did make that read, I don't see why they kill a vaguely protector-like POE Dana over watcher-adjacent Allcrab, possible tracker Seanzie, loudmouth Jay/Mac, nutella/Owner matchmaker Alison, or world champion Sloonei.

I think the mafia killed someone else and she got in the way.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What's there to have a go at? I asked Allcrab earlier about his read on me and he ignored me. Right now he seems to just not want to give me credit for things I've done. If he doesn't want to believe the wolfpelt I have thrown over my shoulder, or my general vibe in thread, he's either a wolf or town that isn't going to find me no matter what I do.

I think you and @Allcrab need to talk this out. It'll help develop reads on both of you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I suspected Alison Day 1 and then she was poisoned and I tossed my suspicion out the window, but now I am beginning to feel like the poisoner is a third party role.

Do you suspect Alison on Day 3? I do think a case can exist -- it'd be a rather typical "too right" case. That's not something I care about much right now or view as compelling, but I'll hear anything out.

[MartinGG99]

Reasons to Trust Gnome:

Chronological order.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 48#p792848 --- Polite Response. GTH I would read that as towny since it doesn't progress or "push" anywhere. If I recall what I know about Gnome, they generally aren't one of those super-solvy types when it comes to reads. Or something. It's been about 2-3 months since I last played with them and only have one game with them, so my recollection may be unclear.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 00#p795500 --- Wolves in general probably don't say this about the potential for misunderstanding.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 68#p798168
https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 50#p798250 --- These two demonstrate effort to solve people they (I presume) may know. She focuses on Hawkatine with quite a few questions in several posts and then is soon after asked for a read on Hawk's wagon to which they answer.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 30#p802230 --- If anything the claim of distancing in a situation most would say is 1 mafia and 1 town (Hawk + Martin) is odd. Especially if they were wolves who knew the truth.

Annnd that's about it. All other stuff I feel may be NAI or otherwise for me to not feel confident in seeing as towny.

[MartinGG99]

On to Orange now.