Russtifinko wrote:Sorry everyone. Busiest week I've had at work since I took the job. Not much energy left over for mental/computer work like mafia.
timmer wrote:LoRab wrote:Also, Mr. Klingon, in your big post where you list all of the players and your thoughts on them, every player is in alphabetical order except for INH. Is that because his name is in a different place in your own list of players because he's your teammate?
Because it's really strange to me that everyone else would be in alpha order except that one.
That's an excellent catch, right there. And the fact that he is an "undecided" is classic baddie teammate.... throw a bit of shade, but not enough that you'd be voting there.
I suppose it's possible, but I would think the one thing a baddie would want to do in a post like that is avoid making their teammate stick out in any way, and checking alphabetical order like that is super easy. It's possible Sokoth was trying to do that and failed, but to me it seems more likely something a civ would do because they're more carefree. I disagree with LoRab's point, here. More importantly, though, this feels opportunistic from timmer, to me, and it got me looking into him.....
timmer wrote:I'm going to vote Sokoth now. Epig's and LoRab's thoughts have me convinced, and I believe INH is bad, as well. He was reading very sensible to me, but his voting with MM against Sig, and Sokoth's putting him last on her list... nope.
Also, in terms of LoRab's game play, this feels like her civvie game. When she's called out as bad she tends, imo, to post less and get more defensive. Here she's much more activelty defending herself and calling people out which fits civ lorab.
I don't like this, either. timmer thought INH was super reasonable and trustworthy, but one medium-sized case from Epi and he's completely sold that INH is bad? He also criticizes INH's vote with MM against sig, which is fair,
except that timmer has probably been the most anti-sig person in the game.
I get it - timmer's Zodac experience gies him a different lens through which to view sig's play, so I can see him being more skeptical of sig than most. timmer switched his read on a player from "top X civs" to "top 2 baddies", and having your reasons be
1) Epi said so.
2) He voted for a person (sig) whom I have suspected for days and whom I said was possibly bad as recently as D4, and a confirmed baddie made the same vote.
quote="timmer"]I've put a vote on Wilgy.
Looking back through, I feel like both Wilgy and Sig could be bad, while I'm less sold on the MM case. I trust INH in this game, and haven't trusted Sig all game, however I also see the Wilgy logic, and Eloh is exactly right about the pingy tone of lorab's post, and so it makes more sense for me to vote him and put him ahead than to vote Sig and create a three-way tie that could be open to shenanigans and cause a dead MM instead.
3) A player whose alignment we don't know yet listed INH out of order on their earlier rainbow read. All of these reasons are
astonishingly weak and more or less incoherent, and timmer should be getting scrutiny over this.
Note also that timmer had a chance to tie the lynch vote yesterday and refused to do so. Instead he voted Wilgy on the rationale "I also see the Wilgy logic", and specifically cited not wanting to risk MM dying as a reason for his vote!! This is only the
second time all game that timmer mentioned Wilgy, the first being on D2:
timmer wrote:DrWilgy wrote:I say we end our hosts search for a replacement via lynch. Aren't I the nicest?
Wilgy, looking back it seems like your Dom suspicion began with this: "Dom is bad.
He's poking at Lorabbit's twirlibirdimarks after I already inqured about them. While not being directly opportunistic, he's looking for reasons to vote."
Where are you at, now? Obviously still focused on him, but is there more to your thoughts now that a day has passed? How do you feel the lynch went?
timmer essentially defends Dom here. This made sense when Dom was inactive, but I am arguing it makes way more sense knowing that Dom was in fact bad.
All that is far from a defense of INH. I actually would have preferred lynching INH over Sokoth today, and maybe I should have said so sooner. However, I realize that my judgement on INH may be skewed this game since he's been after me since I replaced in this role, so I held off.
This feels like hindsight now with the Day's end so close, but the Sokoth case worries me. There's similarly little resistance to when I went after Scotty, and a number of people (timmer and BWT come to mind, but possibly others) are saying "Sokoth today, INH next!" like it's a foregone conclusion Sokoth will flip bad. Anytime people do that, it makes me think that they probably won't.
This post took quite a turn from where I thought it would go. I've convinced myself to vote timmer, and to keep doing so until he or I is killed.[/quote]
I really like this case.
Timmer has been in my periphery for a bit, and while he led the brigade on me on day 2, which got us nowhere, I didn't necessarily fault him for that.
But his attitude of the past few days after MM flipped bad has me doubling back. I thought timmer
thrived after catching a bad guy. Instead, he indeed soft defends Dom/MM and stays rather inactive in regards to building any cases from it.
Since Dom was killed by YingYang twins, he has done nothing in terms of establishing cases. There's this post:
timmer wrote:Russtifinko wrote:Epignosis wrote:Who would kill Lorab when someone was talking about lynching her next?
Russtifinko wrote:I think lynching LoRab would be a huge mistake. Epi, I get what you're saying about that looking like a potential bus, but I really don't think that's what's going on here. Besides, MM wasn't lynched, so he couldn't really be bussed. (By the way, thanks for that one, by the way, YinYang). I think looking at other MM connections is a much better way to go, here.
LOL @ MM.
Somebody who had a chat with her.
LoRab wrote:OK. Read up.
Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).
MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.
Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.
Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.
Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.
So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.
I think there's enough evidence in sig's favor. I won't vote for him. Wilgy and MM are gone. Russ got the yellow comment. I want to explore that.
The above alongside Russ's ardent "defense" of Lorab is
prima facie evidence that Russ and Lorab had BTSC at one point, and that despite the initial anonymity, Russ learned the identity of his company.
Think on that. Lorab had an anonymous chat with Russ, and she clearly trusted him (given the yellow).
Have you ever been bad and received BTSC with a civilian? That can be one of the most nerve-wracking experiences in Mafia...although I'd like to think I've gotten it
down to a science.
Or you might just be like Eloh, who unwittingly outed her damn self in
Death Note.
Good times. *Wipes away a giddy tear*.
Russ' defense is unique.
sig never defended Lorab, and by Day 5 said she
warranted a closer look. Dr.Wilgy never defended Lorab. MM was evil and may well have been caught in BTSC. That leaves Russ, who came out defending Lorab.
There are five civilians left.
Shawn Spencer
Carlton Lassiter
Henry Spencer
Abigail Lytar
Woody the Coroner
I don't believe Russ is Shawn or Carlton. I have other people in mind for those two roles. That leaves Henry, Abigail, and Woody. None of those are able to check secrets or roles. And if you are one of those roles, that narrows things down even further.
Russ got BTSC with Frank, figured out that was Lorab, and killed her.
Wait wait wait wait. This analysis was all going so well until the very last line. The whole theory was super well put together, except that I don't see how the conclusion follows. So:
1) LoRab and I had BTSC.
2) LoRab and I trusted and defended each other.
3) LoRab was civ.
4) I am.....bad??
You're giving me way too much credit and not giving LoRab enough if you think I could pull the wool over her eyes like that in BTSC. I'm flattered, but you're flat-out wrong.
I'll be voting timmer again. I'd love to hear some discussion on him, as I put together what I thought was a pretty well-thought-out and airtight (although admittedly poorly timed) case, but the only real response I got was from him, so I feel like I'm talking at a brick wall. His behavior D4 and D5 was just BANANAS, right? And on a pretty pivotal day for the baddies, too!
Has Epi been elected President and Ruler of Casemaking here, or do other people get to have ideas worth talking about too?
Airtight? I do not think that word means what you think it means. You still haven't even looked at it without your blunders on.
But I'm going to concentrate tomorrow on the relevant cases, not on defending a vote that I made in good faith.
where he says he is going to concentrate on relevant cases, and not just defend himself.
Well, OK. He agreed with Epi's "case" on Sokoth and INH. Doesn't really put up any other thoughts. When Russ confronts him, it's just been a "nah, I'm not bad bro" kind of attitude. I feel like he's concentrating on the sun, and if he concentrates too hard, he might be blind in a phase.
Yo
timmer, I'm voting you with Russ. Let's see if you can build your own cases, and let's see if anyone comes out of the woodwork to defend you.