Mafia Championship Scrimmage [END]

[Frog]

Hey, I hear we're playing a mafia game in here?

Yeah man! You in? You Mafia?

Yea to both, King Con.

Please don't self lynch bait

Imagine the setup further down the line and there is no way to prove your alignment (aka vanilla-esque game). By opening with a self-lynch bait and no way to 'clear' yourself, if you end up in F3 scenario, you're going to be untrustworthy from the beginning.

1. You are either lying about your alignment - untrustworthy
or
2. You are mafia - untrustworthy

It's a lose-lose type of situation.

I'm just going to ask you straight up:
1) Were you kidding about being in the mafia?
2) Tell me you're town.

What do you think of all my other posts?

Vote: Sloonei

It's very simple - tell me you're town in your own unique way

[Long Con]

I've JUST finished a C12 match on MU where many vanillagers were fake claiming TPRs, and fake counter claiming TPRs all over the place. Some of them worked, some of them didn't. Those that didn't work were because of a cognitive dissonance between players. With this in mind, if you are town reading a player, and they fake claim a power role, would you counter claim them?

Furthermore, with respect to claims, I'm planning on following this format every day:
If I'm X role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.
If I'm Y role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.
If I'm Z role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.

So, after a few days, if everyone does this, then we can get every town power role verified to each person they targeted.

Doesn't this cause games to devolve into a bunch of counter-claiming and informed defending?

[Sloonei]

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

lmao - I sense a divide amongst players and I'm not entirely certain if it's alignment indicative or not. Trolls and Tryhards. I'm going to go ahead and say when I'm town I tryhard, I'm putting Sig as Villager lean.

Sloonei's aggressive behavior doesn't seem characteristic of a wolf unless he truly just does not give a flip in any of his games. Can anyone confirm Sloonei's meta as town vs. scum?

This is sloonei's town meta.

[Marco]

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

lmao - I sense a divide amongst players and I'm not entirely certain if it's alignment indicative or not. Trolls and Tryhards. I'm going to go ahead and say when I'm town I tryhard, I'm putting Sig as Villager lean.

Sloonei's aggressive behavior doesn't seem characteristic of a wolf unless he truly just does not give a flip in any of his games. Can anyone confirm Sloonei's meta as town vs. scum?

If you're only tryhard as town, isn't it easy for people to catch you on your home boards? Reflects upon your question to Sloonei as well. There's no reason to assume he has easily distinguishable town and scum meta.

[Zexy]

Frog, asking people to say they’re town and doing so yourself is Troll, right? Then are you a Tryhard for reals?

Well, Dizzy, all previous posts weren’t really about analysis on things… this would be your second and it involves only me, again. Hope I don’t end up being your tunnel target…

[Zexy]

Ok and for now I'll stop following the thread for a while. Later!

[Psittaciform]

So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

That works best when people are used to hypo claiming. We could go that route but doesn't look to me like everyone is used to hypo on their home boards. I don't mind PR cover either but it's hard to pull off with complete strangers. I'd have to have a really strong town-read on someone (or say an innocent report).

What good does it do for every player to claim every role? How does it benefit the Power Roles to be able to "naturally" throw their real results in?

From what I understand, the idea is, should a PR get killed before having a chance to claim and clearly state results, they can simply sneak them out as part of a fake claim-fest, and when they die, all the other town players need to do is look back at their posts and see what info they left. Such a tactic should only be left to info roles like Cop or Tracker/Watcher, and only in a environment where it's the standard and people can be expected to carry it out, however. And as I said before, I'm against it here, without any experience in those tactics, it will probably just lead to a confused mess for town.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei's aggressive behavior doesn't seem characteristic of a wolf unless he truly just does not give a flip in any of his games. Can anyone confirm Sloonei's meta as town vs. scum?

2 minutes later...

What do you think of all my other posts?

Vote: Sloonei

It's very simple - tell me you're town in your own unique way

You don't think my behavior looks bad, but you're voting for me because... you can't read me?

[Marco]

I've JUST finished a C12 match on MU where many vanillagers were fake claiming TPRs, and fake counter claiming TPRs all over the place. Some of them worked, some of them didn't. Those that didn't work were because of a cognitive dissonance between players. With this in mind, if you are town reading a player, and they fake claim a power role, would you counter claim them?

Furthermore, with respect to claims, I'm planning on following this format every day:
If I'm X role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.
If I'm Y role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.
If I'm Z role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.

So, after a few days, if everyone does this, then we can get every town power role verified to each person they targeted.

Doesn't this cause games to devolve into a bunch of counter-claiming and informed defending?

Yep. This also works best in a setup you actually know. Right now, majority of us will be clueless about the actual setup. So, hypo-claiming this game is probably going to be an advantage to mafia more so than town. They have the liberty of knowing the exact setup we're playing on Day 1 whereas most townies are clueless. So, I'm quite against trying Frog's strategy this game. And I wonder why he'd suggest this strategy without actually knowing what setup we're playing.

VOTE FROG

[sig]

Alright. I'm just going to blend into the background so you guys get some time to develop some disputes. Then I will point at the scums using the highly scientific method of "spin the bottle".

- Kisses

I want a kiss. Unless you have diseases then I don't want a kiss.

Spoiler: show

MM seems to be as jokey as normal, not an alignment indicator.

MP comes into the thread with his normal "I won't post much it doesn't mean I'm mafia unlesssss I decide to post alot, but I probably won't" thing. So expect lots of posts and activity from MP. :P

There isn't much to go on yet but, inaword had a towny entrance to the thread.

He is doing some RVS, but that is common on MU. I usually dislike doing this however, it isn't an alignment indicator.

However, having said this I'm not sure I like how MP is talking about the hammer function. It's a bad gut ping to me. Not enough to vote/lynch on, but I'll be keeping my eye on MP.

I was going to comment on these tidbits as well but figured it was common knowledge and too much information instead of analysis. However, since you've opened pandora's box:

1) I agree, so far there is very little that alignment indicative
2) I personally dislike RVS as well - I feel it's just an excuse for scum to rack up post count without content, but more importantly, it's not game solvey. However, it is widely prevalent. It is what it is. I have a theory with respect to this I will build upon later today.
3) I thought the discussion of the hammer function was useful to be honest, I didn't know about hammer existing D1. It was more like an informative heads up, which isn't indicative of alignment. Again, IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis) has been disproven as alignment indicative (Silverwolf and Ika know which MS article I'm referencing).

So while I misliked Frog's claiming post, I do like his stance on RVS. However, Frog do you think some people are more likely to be helpful/playful as mafia then as civ? Some information discussion is fine, however I'd watch any player who does this to much and doesn't post other on topic content.

Sig, what is the nature of your ping on me? How strong is it and why is it there?

It isn't a strong ping, it is in the range of mild to small. It seemed weird how you said it seemed scummy for me to posting so much it seemed like an early attempt to set up a bandwagon on me, and we all know how prone I am to get wagoned. :P

more linkis: I'll answer them in the next post.

[Long Con]

So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

That works best when people are used to hypo claiming. We could go that route but doesn't look to me like everyone is used to hypo on their home boards. I don't mind PR cover either but it's hard to pull off with complete strangers. I'd have to have a really strong town-read on someone (or say an innocent report).

What good does it do for every player to claim every role? How does it benefit the Power Roles to be able to "naturally" throw their real results in?

From what I understand, the idea is, should a PR get killed before having a chance to claim and clearly state results, they can simply sneak them out as part of a fake claim-fest, and when they die, all the other town players need to do is look back at their posts and see what info they left. Such a tactic should only be left to info roles like Cop or Tracker/Watcher, and only in a environment where it's the standard and people can be expected to carry it out, however. And as I said before, I'm against it here, without any experience in those tactics, it will probably just lead to a confused mess for town.

Seems like an attempt to get through loopholes. I wouldn't allow it as a host.

[Marco]

You cannot start a hypo-claim fest this game as fake-claims will be easy to discover, especially for mafia as they know which setup we're playing.

[Sloonei]

@ sig: I would never encourage an early bandwagon. I just moved my vote off my top suspect at the moment (Frog) because 2 other people voted for him.

[Marco]

Assuming I'm Vanilla Townie, I have no way to know which setup we're playing until we see some PR (town and/or mafia) deaths. I could see the potential for PR cover after we have better idea of what setup we're in but mafia is going to probably have that knowledge alone for a while and hypo-claiming requires the contribution of quite a number of well-informed townies.

[sig]

So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

That works best when people are used to hypo claiming. We could go that route but doesn't look to me like everyone is used to hypo on their home boards. I don't mind PR cover either but it's hard to pull off with complete strangers. I'd have to have a really strong town-read on someone (or say an innocent report).

Yeah TS isn't as big on claiming as some sites I've played on.

I'm liking Psittaciform first post, but he is still null.

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

lmao - I sense a divide amongst players and I'm not entirely certain if it's alignment indicative or not. Trolls and Tryhards. I'm going to go ahead and say when I'm town I tryhard, I'm putting Sig as Villager lean.

Sloonei's aggressive behavior doesn't seem characteristic of a wolf unless he truly just does not give a flip in any of his games. Can anyone confirm Sloonei's meta as town vs. scum?

I don't think it is an alignment indicator. Some players are always more try hard or troll like, then you've got some who will be more try hard in some games then others. I've played a good amount of games with Sloonie, but I can't recall if I've ever seen him play as mafia. He is usually very active and aggressive, but that isn't a town clear in my view.

@Sloonie okay two questions
Have I ever played with you when you were mafia?
What do you think of role claiming, when should it be done ect?

[Frog]

You are right. A lot more is going to happen. But that more has not happened yet, so for now I have to work with what I have. What do you think of sig and I? Your last post didn't really give a stance either way.

If anything, the fact you are trying to read someone on this little could be scum trying to slowly and steadily justify a scumread on a townie.
I don't have too much of a stance yet, my posts are also there so you two react to them and they can help me read you through that. You are more defensive than sig which is also slightly scummy of you to do.

Alas. That's the way she goes.

She?

While I'd like to see more from Dyslexicon, posts like that are kinda regular in PerC so it's cool for now

Also, Sloonei, Frog's question is good and all. Explaining basic stuff about power role cover is useful.

So I shouldn't be attempting to read anyone? Got it.

And I'd like to hear Frog's response to me before I pass any further judgment on him.

LMFAO - your perspective is top down, cocky as a mofo. You haven't asked me any questions up until this point in the thread when you had posted this. What am I "responding" to?

Make a claim with a warrant and a basis, then we can talk.

E.g. You are not in favor of me claiming town, the warrant for this belief is ???, the basis for this belief is ???

I'll put it to you this way, and you can keep this in your tool box.
Analyze players from the perspective of Town, Scum, and Not-Town (which are 3 quite distinct categories).
I'll say this much - any serious players who claim to have randed Town, more likely than not, have randed Town - and I'm not talking about the 50%+ (since Town accounts for 50%). I'm talking about the last 50 games I've played in, I can only recall twice when a scum has opened claiming to be town. That is the basis. The warrant for this argument that those who claim town are in fact town is that scum are self conscious and don't want to speak incorrectly. Claiming town is like flapping your snake in the wind - that kind of a brazen and bold attitude that would be counter conscious-scum attitude early D1.

[Marco]

@Frog, you came in encouraging a strategy involving hypo-claiming. How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Friendly reminder to all players that votes need to be placed in the poll and in the thread, with this precise format:

VOTE [PLAYER]

All caps with the large font. Font size can be found between "Flash" and "Font colour".

I need to be a stickler about this to minimize the likelihood of tally mistakes and to ensure I can find every vote that has been placed. Thanks!

[Frog]

So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

Zexy is towny as flip.

Zexy + Sig = Town

Marco + Sloonei = scum teamish - On page 2 Marco randomly defends Sloonei. Lol. Obv slip is obvious.

[Sloonei]

You are right. A lot more is going to happen. But that more has not happened yet, so for now I have to work with what I have. What do you think of sig and I? Your last post didn't really give a stance either way.

If anything, the fact you are trying to read someone on this little could be scum trying to slowly and steadily justify a scumread on a townie.
I don't have too much of a stance yet, my posts are also there so you two react to them and they can help me read you through that. You are more defensive than sig which is also slightly scummy of you to do.

Alas. That's the way she goes.

She?

While I'd like to see more from Dyslexicon, posts like that are kinda regular in PerC so it's cool for now

Also, Sloonei, Frog's question is good and all. Explaining basic stuff about power role cover is useful.

So I shouldn't be attempting to read anyone? Got it.

And I'd like to hear Frog's response to me before I pass any further judgment on him.

LMFAO - your perspective is top down, cocky as a mofo. You haven't asked me any questions up until this point in the thread when you had posted this. What am I "responding" to?

Make a claim with a warrant and a basis, then we can talk.

E.g. You are not in favor of me claiming town, the warrant for this belief is ???, the basis for this belief is ???

I'll put it to you this way, and you can keep this in your tool box.
Analyze players from the perspective of Town, Scum, and Not-Town (which are 3 quite distinct categories).
I'll say this much - any serious players who claim to have randed Town, more likely than not, have randed Town - and I'm not talking about the 50%+ (since Town accounts for 50%). I'm talking about the last 50 games I've played in, I can only recall twice when a scum has opened claiming to be town. That is the basis. The warrant for this argument that those who claim town are in fact town is that scum are self conscious and don't want to speak incorrectly. Claiming town is like flapping your snake in the wind - that kind of a brazen and bold attitude that would be counter conscious-scum attitude early D1.

I didn't ask you any questions, but I voted for you and gave a reason. That's something you can respond to. I do not agree with your last paragraph, if I'm understanding it correctly. You are saying that only townies can claim town? Because that's uh... well that's false. We come from different communities, so obviously we'll have different experiences, but I see an unprovoked town claim as a strange and possibly suspicious thing to do.
Now you're getting a bit overly defensive on this issue. You started this post off by saying that there was nothing to respond to, and then followed it up with a convoluted response to me about how claiming town is something only townies do. First I am too cocky and my vote is unwarranted and has no basis, but then my vote warrants a lengthy retort. All in the same post.

[Sloonei]

So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

Zexy is towny as flip.

Zexy + Sig = Town

Marco + Sloonei = scum teamish - On page 2 Marco randomly defends Sloonei. Lol. Obv slip is obvious.

Good point. Keep it up.

[Frog]

@Frog, you came in encouraging a strategy involving hypo-claiming. How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?

Marco, you're a scum who isn't seeking an answer. Zexy has already explained the strategies that are commonly used on Mafia Universe (shared by several communities).

You have TMIed my friend, Marco, too many times already. I'll bring up your other TMI posts, but let me start here. "How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?"

First, I'll answer your question for the sake of town:
Mafia is informed which vertical or horizontal setup we're on because of their team powerroles. Whereas even if you are a Town PR, you do not know the setup. My plan is to claim every town power role every day in one post, because im assuming there are no last wills, and for posterity sake we must say what we did. I already explained it quite logically:
If I'm Tracker I did this N1 N2
If I'm Doctor I did this N1 N2
etc. etc.
That way if any town PR flips, their information can be easily found, AND town villagers provide the most amount of cover for actual town PRs.

It's a standard method because it's objectively the most successful way to play this setup.

As for your slip - You already know I don't know the setup, as you implicitly slipped:
"How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?"

[Tangrowth]

Just a heads up regarding my schedule, for those that care: I'll be around in about 5.5 hours from now to post Smashfest matches, but I may or may not be sufficiently finished with work by then to call it a night; if I am, I'll check in here, and no earlier. If I am not, I'll be back sometime later this evening. See you all sometime.

[Sloonei]

@Frog, you came in encouraging a strategy involving hypo-claiming. How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?

Marco, you're a scum who isn't seeking an answer. Zexy has already explained the strategies that are commonly used on Mafia Universe (shared by several communities).

You have TMIed my friend, Marco, too many times already. I'll bring up your other TMI posts, but let me start here. "How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?"

First, I'll answer your question for the sake of town:
Mafia is informed which vertical or horizontal setup we're on because of their team powerroles. Whereas even if you are a Town PR, you do not know the setup. My plan is to claim every town power role every day in one post, because im assuming there are no last wills, and for posterity sake we must say what we did. I already explained it quite logically:
If I'm Tracker I did this N1 N2
If I'm Doctor I did this N1 N2
etc. etc.
That way if any town PR flips, their information can be easily found, AND town villagers provide the most amount of cover for actual town PRs.

It's a standard method because it's objectively the most successful way to play this setup.

As for your slip - You already know I don't know the setup, as you implicitly slipped:
"How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?"

How much experience do you have with this setup? I've never played it before, and I'm not used to fake role claiming strategies like this.

[sig]

Ah I understand what Frog is saying, I've seen players do this on my home site quite a bit, I dislike it but I wouldn't consider it role claiming in the sense that your claiming the role. If that makes sense. I misunderstood what hypo claiming was I guess. I don't think it overly helps or hurts the town usually the mafia ignores them. I was thinking you meant something different.

What is a TMI post?

[Frog]

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

[Sloonei]

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

A town player can defend another player for what they perceive as incorrect or invalid lines of suspicion. I do not agree with your analysis, but I've not looked closely at Marco.

Also what do you mean when you call my posts "troll" posts? I made a confused face when I read that.

[Marco]

So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

Zexy is towny as flip.

Zexy + Sig = Town

Marco + Sloonei = scum teamish - On page 2 Marco randomly defends Sloonei. Lol. Obv slip is obvious.

It would look better if you answered my question rather than deflecting at me. And what are you referring to when you say I randomly defended Sloonei?

[Frog]

@Frog, you came in encouraging a strategy involving hypo-claiming. How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?

Marco, you're a scum who isn't seeking an answer. Zexy has already explained the strategies that are commonly used on Mafia Universe (shared by several communities).

You have TMIed my friend, Marco, too many times already. I'll bring up your other TMI posts, but let me start here. "How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?"

First, I'll answer your question for the sake of town:
Mafia is informed which vertical or horizontal setup we're on because of their team powerroles. Whereas even if you are a Town PR, you do not know the setup. My plan is to claim every town power role every day in one post, because im assuming there are no last wills, and for posterity sake we must say what we did. I already explained it quite logically:
If I'm Tracker I did this N1 N2
If I'm Doctor I did this N1 N2
etc. etc.
That way if any town PR flips, their information can be easily found, AND town villagers provide the most amount of cover for actual town PRs.

It's a standard method because it's objectively the most successful way to play this setup.

As for your slip - You already know I don't know the setup, as you implicitly slipped:
"How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?"

How much experience do you have with this setup? I've never played it before, and I'm not used to fake role claiming strategies like this.

I've played countless semi-open setups. The key aspect with THIS setup is that:
1) Mafia are informed of the entire vertical or horizontal that we're playing on, and Town does not

Similar to ANY setup, Town Power Roles must leak our their information, and Vanillas must decoy and protect.

If ONLY the power roles were to claim their information everyday, we'd end up with quite a lot of dead power roles very quickly.

The meethod of going about this is very simple. Everyone claims every role with various feedbacks etc.

If there are no conflicting feedbacks, then we proceed with information based lynch.

If there is a counter claim, then we reevaluate and use post analysis and mech analysis, etc. as though it's an actual game and not simply a gamed strategy. (Honestly, there is no possible 'gamed strategy' in this semi-open setup)

[Sloonei]

So how many roles should we all be claiming?

[Frog]

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

A town player can defend another player for what they perceive as incorrect or invalid lines of suspicion. I do not agree with your analysis, but I've not looked closely at Marco.

Also what do you mean when you call my posts "troll" posts? I made a confused face when I read that.

My friend Marco, if you want to be taken seriously, at least make an argument. You've read my analysis from various perspectives that involve claims, warrants, and basis. Your response is: I disagree because reasons. But you don't list reasons. LOL. You haven't even engaged which parts you disagree with with respect to my analysis. It really just seems like you're randomly defending Marco, but cautiously backing off in case you get linked. I think you know I'm onto something, I've just posted TWO of Marcos slips.

1) TMI - he KNOWS that I don't have knowledge of the entire setup - aka, he's presuming me a Town, and yet he's voting me, lol.
2) Defending you after you make THESE trolls posts that I've ALREADY brought to your attention, and told you to please refrain from self-lynch baiting. I even explain WHY self-lynch baiting is horrible for Town. If you choose not to interact with me in actual content based discussion I can only concluded the worst for you.

Hey, I hear we're playing a mafia game in here?

Hey, I hear we're playing a mafia game in here?

Yeah man! You in? You Mafia?

Yea to both, King Con.

Here you open by claiming to be mafia - since you're like "I DON'T TROLL FROG!!"

... really?

[Marco]

Ignore my last post.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

It is not defending when I clarified Sig's obvious misinterpretation. And I corrected Sig because I was interested in the actual answer to the question Sloonei asked. This had nothing to do with Sloonei. How is it that you brought nothing of this up until after I voted for you and called you out?


As for the hypo-claiming clarification, that's my bad. I didn't understand your proposed strategy clearly.

[Marco]

My friend Marco, if you want to be taken seriously, at least make an argument. You've read my analysis from various perspectives that involve claims, warrants, and basis. Your response is: I disagree because reasons. But you don't list reasons. LOL. You haven't even engaged which parts you disagree with with respect to my analysis. It really just seems like you're randomly defending Marco, but cautiously backing off in case you get linked. I think you know I'm onto something, I've just posted TWO of Marcos slips.

1) TMI - he KNOWS that I don't have knowledge of the entire setup - aka, he's presuming me a Town, and yet he's voting me, lol.
2) Defending you after you make THESE trolls posts that I've ALREADY brought to your attention, and told you to please refrain from self-lynch baiting. I even explain WHY self-lynch baiting is horrible for Town. If you choose not to interact with me in actual content based discussion I can only concluded the worst for you.

1. That was my point. I was calling out that if you're town, you don't know which setup we're playing. Then how could you be suggesting a hypo-claim strategy. As I admitted, I hadn't understood your strategy clearly. I didn't get that you meant we claim all the possible roles. It appeared to me that you knew the setup we're in and forgot that the rest of us don't have that information.
2. I wasn't defending Sloonei. I was pointing out that Sig was answering the wrong question.

[Marco]

As my suspicion of Frog was because of my own misinterpretation, UNVOTE

[Sloonei]

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

A town player can defend another player for what they perceive as incorrect or invalid lines of suspicion. I do not agree with your analysis, but I've not looked closely at Marco.

Also what do you mean when you call my posts "troll" posts? I made a confused face when I read that.

My friend Marco, if you want to be taken seriously, at least make an argument. You've read my analysis from various perspectives that involve claims, warrants, and basis. Your response is: I disagree because reasons. But you don't list reasons. LOL. You haven't even engaged which parts you disagree with with respect to my analysis. It really just seems like you're randomly defending Marco, but cautiously backing off in case you get linked. I think you know I'm onto something, I've just posted TWO of Marcos slips.

1) TMI - he KNOWS that I don't have knowledge of the entire setup - aka, he's presuming me a Town, and yet he's voting me, lol.
2) Defending you after you make THESE trolls posts that I've ALREADY brought to your attention, and told you to please refrain from self-lynch baiting. I even explain WHY self-lynch baiting is horrible for Town. If you choose not to interact with me in actual content based discussion I can only concluded the worst for you.

Hey, I hear we're playing a mafia game in here?

Hey, I hear we're playing a mafia game in here?

Yeah man! You in? You Mafia?

Yea to both, King Con.

Here you open by claiming to be mafia - since you're like "I DON'T TROLL FROG!!"

... really?

I just said I didn't know what you meant by "troll" because I've never seen that term applied to mafia before. I think your focus on that one post of mine is silly. It's clearly the most meaningless post in my post history but you've now brought it up like three different times. Why?

[Sloonei]

As my suspicion of Frog was because of my own misinterpretation, UNVOTE

What did you misinterpret and how has he changed your mind?

[Marco]

As my suspicion of Frog was because of my own misinterpretation, UNVOTE

What did you misinterpret and how has he changed your mind?

I didn't realize he meant we hypo-claim all the possible roles from the 12 setups. I have only ever come across hypo-claims in open setup games, not semi-open, so my immediate reaction was that "we can't hypo-claim", we have no idea what setup we're in.

To demonstrate: Generally the setups I've played with people hypoing involve just cop, doctor, RB, hypos as we know all three roles are present.

I was thinking along those lines and missed out that Frog meant we claim ever role. So, it appeared to me that Frog slipped and didn't realize that town doesn't know what setup we're playing.

[Frog]

Ignore my last post.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

It is not defending when I clarified Sig's obvious misinterpretation. And I corrected Sig because I was interested in the actual answer to the question Sloonei asked. This had nothing to do with Sloonei. How is it that you brought nothing of this up until after I voted for you and called you out?


As for the hypo-claiming clarification, that's my bad. I didn't understand your proposed strategy clearly.

I had already noticed fishy behavior between you and Sloonei in particular. I decided not to bring it up to see how you two would act and vote. Sure enough, like sharks you seem to be buddying Marco hardcore.

I'm going to disagree with you entirely in your defence of your actions. You have no engaged with me in the advantages and disadvantages of jumping into discussion that did not include YOU. I've gone over the benefits and setbacks depending on perspectives, and it is clearly anti-town.

By jumping into Sig and Sloonei's conversation, you have cut Sloonei out of the picture, thereby IMPLICITLY defending Sloonei, AND almost EXPLICITLY defending Sloonei by pressuring the player (Sig) who was pressuring Slooeni.

Again, it's very simple if you want to have a real honest discussion based on logic and actual content. I can't imagine why it's so hard for you to simply acknowledge my questions and answer my logical content. I have to deduce you are scum, which is really no fun since the game JUST started. Meh, I'll take the easy lynch if you're going to be no fun.

[Sloonei]

So far it seems all of us who are mixed in with this current grouping are unfamiliar with each other's playstyles and communities. I've never played with either Frog or Marco before, and I don't know whether or not they've played together but I think the answer is no. Either one of them can correct me if I'm wrong. But I think we should all be cautious before reading each other too strongly. Sometimes unfamiliarity can give the illusion of scumminess. I'll need to take a step back from all this to think more clearly. I am also slightly distracted at the moment.

[Frog]

I'll return in a few hours. Going for a few drinks now.

[Sloonei]

Ignore my last post.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

It is not defending when I clarified Sig's obvious misinterpretation. And I corrected Sig because I was interested in the actual answer to the question Sloonei asked. This had nothing to do with Sloonei. How is it that you brought nothing of this up until after I voted for you and called you out?


As for the hypo-claiming clarification, that's my bad. I didn't understand your proposed strategy clearly.

I had already noticed fishy behavior between you and Sloonei in particular. I decided not to bring it up to see how you two would act and vote. Sure enough, like sharks you seem to be buddying Marco hardcore.

I'm going to disagree with you entirely in your defence of your actions. You have no engaged with me in the advantages and disadvantages of jumping into discussion that did not include YOU. I've gone over the benefits and setbacks depending on perspectives, and it is clearly anti-town.

By jumping into Sig and Sloonei's conversation, you have cut Sloonei out of the picture, thereby IMPLICITLY defending Sloonei, AND almost EXPLICITLY defending Sloonei by pressuring the player (Sig) who was pressuring Slooeni.

Again, it's very simple if you want to have a real honest discussion based on logic and actual content. I can't imagine why it's so hard for you to simply acknowledge my questions and answer my logical content. I have to deduce you are scum, which is really no fun since the game JUST started. Meh, I'll take the easy lynch if you're going to be no fun.

The highlighted part is what I disagree with and why I can't jump on board with what you are saying. Knowing my own role helps, but I don't read Marco's post the same way you do. I see it as him pointing out that sig appeared to misinterpret something I said, so he corrected sig's mistake. Nothing more than that. No defending, no accusing.

[Marco]

Ignore my last post.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

Hello.

Sig came in and tried to drag as much content out of things as he could. I'd like that if it didn't feel like such an effort to distance oneself from the label of low participation or scumminess.
Let's VOTE SIG

You'd usually like it but, don't this time? That doesn't make much sense.Also it is weird seeing how this is the beginning of day 1 so how would I be labeled as low participation if I hadn't had made any posts after my first one?

So why is it scummy that I'm posting and trying to get some content, since from where I sit it looks like your trying to stifle discussion.

He wasn't calling you out for low participation.

For reference, this is Marco randomly defending Sloonei from Sig.

Why would any player have incentive to defend another player, especially in the early stages where players are seeking reactions? Marco essentially forced Sig to not get the reactions from Marco, and shielded Marco from having to react.

From a Town perspective - It's possible Marco was shielding his town read, Sloonei, from abuse. Judging how Marco proceeded to vote me after I voted Sloonei, I would say assuming Marco!Town, Marco clearly has discovered a way to hard Town read Sloonei from a few troll RVS posts, a miracle to say the least.

From a Not Town Perspective - Marco!Town was acting not town by disallowing everyone in the game from seeing actual content argument between sig and marco, whereby we would be able to actively gauge v/w, v/v type of interactions. Instead Marco!Town was not town and cut these interactions shorts, and denied Marco's reaction

From a Scum Perspective - Marco!Scum comes from an informed perspective. Either he knows Sloonei is town and is trying to pocket him, or Marco is defending a wolf bro.

Of these scenarios, and because of Marco's previous TMI (Too Much Information) posts that suggest he's coming from an informed perspective, I'm much more inclined to deduce and FOS (Finger of Suspicion) Marco at this point OVER Sloonei.

There is a variation in which Sloonei is in fact Town - judging by Sloonei's aggressive behavior and general interactivity across the board, I'd like to bump Sloonei up from lean scum to cautious null.

I will also bump down Marco into a hard wolf read.

[flash=3]Vote: Marco[/flash]

It is not defending when I clarified Sig's obvious misinterpretation. And I corrected Sig because I was interested in the actual answer to the question Sloonei asked. This had nothing to do with Sloonei. How is it that you brought nothing of this up until after I voted for you and called you out?


As for the hypo-claiming clarification, that's my bad. I didn't understand your proposed strategy clearly.

I had already noticed fishy behavior between you and Sloonei in particular. I decided not to bring it up to see how you two would act and vote. Sure enough, like sharks you seem to be buddying Marco hardcore.

I'm going to disagree with you entirely in your defence of your actions. You have no engaged with me in the advantages and disadvantages of jumping into discussion that did not include YOU. I've gone over the benefits and setbacks depending on perspectives, and it is clearly anti-town.

By jumping into Sig and Sloonei's conversation, you have cut Sloonei out of the picture, thereby IMPLICITLY defending Sloonei, AND almost EXPLICITLY defending Sloonei by pressuring the player (Sig) who was pressuring Slooeni.

Again, it's very simple if you want to have a real honest discussion based on logic and actual content. I can't imagine why it's so hard for you to simply acknowledge my questions and answer my logical content. I have to deduce you are scum, which is really no fun since the game JUST started. Meh, I'll take the easy lynch if you're going to be no fun.

I know certain boards have soft-rules against not answering for other people, which is why I specifically didn't expand on what Sloonei actually meant. Just that Sig was misinterpreting him. I don't believe pointing out that Sig is misinterpreting Sloonei is cutting Sloonie out of the picture. And yes, I was pressuring Sig with my question, because his response to Sloonei was a deflection, whether intentional or not. But that does not mean Sig wasn't free to engage Sloonei with the correct response. Also, if Sloonei dropped the discussion just because of my simple intrusion, it would help me develop read on him, regardless.

[Long Con]

Host: Do we get to know who was nightkill-targeted if a hypothetical Doctor is successful in protecting someone?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Host: Do we get to know who was nightkill-targeted if a hypothetical Doctor is successful in protecting someone?

No.

[Long Con]

So that's what it takes to get you guys to shut up for an hour and a half. I'm going to work now, be back in a while.

Frog, loving the point of view, maybe I'll try some of your logic out, if I'm not too lazy.

[ika]

silverwolf

As always

fyi I'm out of state so I'm mobile till probably night 1, posting will be lower then normal

[Frog]

As my suspicion of Frog was because of my own misinterpretation, UNVOTE

What did you misinterpret and how has he changed your mind?

I just wrote a huge post and it's gone. FML

[Frog]

As my suspicion of Frog was because of my own misinterpretation, UNVOTE

What did you misinterpret and how has he changed your mind?

I retread the thread and I see where your misunderstanding was. You assumed my hypo claiming strategy revolved around mafia's privileged knowledge with respect to the existing power roles on a specific vertical/horizontal - where the claims would revolve around the specific unknown set of actual power roles. I'm saying- every power role should be hypoclaimed precisely because the vertical/horizontal is unknown to everyone except for scum.

I'm assuming we're playing with most championship rules where:
A) no last wills
B) claiming (fake or otherwise) is allowed
C) I've never heard of a rule where players aren't allowed to answer for others

Comments wrt above:
A) because there are no last wills, we must divulge our information and actions with appropriate cover
B) I'd urge you, especially if you rand village in the championships, to hypoclaim. You can expect quite a lot of straight up fake claiming, especially from town for decoy purposes
C) my vote remains on you for a few reasons, most notably to inform players of the existing buddying and butting in between you two (Marco and Sloonei)

Extra notes-
Sloonei- you're asking me WHY I'm bring up your introductory troll posts.
The answer is simple - clearly Marco hard town read you based on that prior to defending you going into the second page of posts.
So my question to you, Sloonei, is this:
Clearly you town read Marco based on amswering for him.
Clearly Marco town reads you based on answering questions for you.
Aren't you skeptical of HOW Marco could possibly V read you based on your intro troll posts?
To me, it doesn't add up AT ALL.
And I'm VERY skeptical of this reciprocal relationship.
I'd like everyone to look into this as well.

Caution-
Only half the players have checked in so far
We must be cautious of TvT (Town vs. Town) arguments
Scum has NO incentive to solve, be mindful of this

[Golden]

147 posts before I even wake up lol. I imagine this is only a taster of what the actual thing will be like.

Catch up time

[sig]

147 posts before I even wake up lol. I imagine this is only a taster of what the actual thing will be like.

Catch up time

You should join me with who I'm voting for I'm sure you'll see the sense in my case.