The Syndicate

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like to pat myself on the back for failing to say "So say we all" over and over despite being Admiral Adama.

If you'd executed yourself for treason, it might have been the highlight of the game!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Nice job indiglo. You were my vote for theme.

I went with Dex for the other one. I know how it feels to work hard in a town effort only to be converted into a losing cause.

Thanks 3J!

I know, I felt so bad for him. I've been there too - loving my civ role and then getting recruited. It's hard. I would have voted him Town MVP too (if I had remembered to vote, of course).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Nice job indiglo. You were my vote for theme.

I went with Dex for the other one. I know how it feels to work hard in a town effort only to be converted into a losing cause.

Thank you for that sir. Takes a little of the bite out of that suckfest.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Anyway,

Thanks for the kind words, Glorfindel. You should stick around and keep playing with us as your time permits. I think you have a talent for transparency, which can be a great asset once people become more accustomed to your style. Hell, in future games if people give you crap for the same reasons, you can refer them back to this and tell them they're bad. :P

Yeah, we'll see my friend. Maybe one day when there's a game with an intriguing theme like this one when I'm not pressured by work and chronically ill family members and you and Ricochet sign up, we might just give it a go. In any case, I wish you all the very best for your future games and life in general

so say we all....

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like to pat myself on the back for failing to say "So say we all" over and over despite being Admiral Adama.

If you'd executed yourself for treason, it might have been the highlight of the game!

Ricochet wrote:11) Technically, Jaydama never missed a single salute.

bea wrote:so say we all....

OMG AWESOME!!!

1 - I look fabulous.
2 - I can't believe how long Starbuck's hair is!!!
3 - 3J has really gotten gray.

I played as I did because I was going to die on Day 6 anyway. Would have been nice of some of you to actually give me a chance to get there like I asked, instead of voting for me and foolishly wasting a lynch. Next time listen to me when I say to give me a chance to prove myself.

Dex wrote:

11) Please to answer: DFaraday / Dex, did you ever determine a lynch?

I determined Long Cain would be lynched. But then he was just lynched anyway. D'oh! I sure could have used that power later.

Wait, what? You switched the lynch to me? Why? Good to know .

Epignosis: Can you please explain why you were trying to get me to say I didn't need all Cylons dead in order to "get your help"? Was any of that real in any way? What happens when someone says it, you get to send them a PM?

Golden wrote:Town, because he needed cavil faction dead. Only townies could win with Cain. Just made the win harder.

But that's not true, Cain needed all Cylons dead to win, not just Cavil faction. I would have played differently if I had only needed Cavil faction dead to win. Why did Adama, for instance, win... Epi was still alive? I was as surprised as anyone to see my role listed as a Town role.

Ricochet wrote:17) Please to answer: Long Con, did you control anyone on N3 throught D5?

No, I actually forgot (or failed to even read) about that power, and Golden never did it randomly like it said, either. I think that's right. Unless I am remembering wrong.

Golden wrote:Also... I think it's fair for me to say this? Ika was targetted by every single negative power on night one. He was sent to the brig, insanified, killed and I can't even remember what else.

I think it's fair to say "good riddance" to him and his gal-pal and their endless need to create drama with them at the centre.

ObscureAllure wrote:

juliets wrote:Obscure Allure, what was with the punishment you claimed you'd receive if you claimed? I didn't believe it which made me for a while see you as bad. Was there punishment and if so what? Or were you just pulling our leg?

The first one was fake. Silver was in the brig and I did it so that I could link to her later. But you guys linked it to a punishment so I went with it. The other punishments were real because I kept talking about BTS shit. Lol.

What, exactly, did you say that got you punished? Maybe link to the posts?

Golden wrote:Dead town MVP - indiglo
Theme MVP... indiglo, but since indi won both, I've gone for second place on this one and the winner is... Long Con.

Congrats to both Indiglo and Long Con - you are both also winners of BSG Mafia.

I would have voted for indi as well. Her leadership in the Rez Ship Sorties was nothing short of awesome. It was a shame to lose her so early.

Thanks for the votes, voters! I can't believe I get a win, despite having a role that was the closest to "impossible to win with" that I can remember having.

John Cavil wrote:It never occurred to you to question why I barely fought back? Or why I was so sure LC was trying to be lynched?

Why did you say this after I was already dead? What purpose does this lie serve?

Long Con wrote:I played as I did because I was going to die on Day 6 anyway. Would have been nice of some of you to actually give me a chance to get there like I asked, instead of voting for me and foolishly wasting a lynch. Next time listen to me when I say to give me a chance to prove myself.

You know better than to ask for such things.

Long Con wrote: Epignosis: Can you please explain why you were trying to get me to say I didn't need all Cylons dead in order to "get your help"? Was any of that real in any way? What happens when someone says it, you get to send them a PM?

My understanding was that if a human said it, and that human needed all Cylons dead, their win condition would change to mine, that of needing Cavil and his minions dead to win.

I tried to help you out, man!

Next time when I try to get your ass to say something, say it.

Long Con wrote:I played as I did because I was going to die on Day 6 anyway. Would have been nice of some of you to actually give me a chance to get there like I asked, instead of voting for me and foolishly wasting a lynch. Next time listen to me when I say to give me a chance to prove myself.

Dex wrote:

11) Please to answer: DFaraday / Dex, did you ever determine a lynch?

I determined Long Cain would be lynched. But then he was just lynched anyway. D'oh! I sure could have used that power later.

Wait, what? You switched the lynch to me? Why? Good to know .\

Yeah, sorry about that man, but your role had to go. Actually, I targeted you another time, but then the fleet jumped before I got my PM in.

I think Adama's win con, despite the role description, changed as soon as he acknowledged that not all Cylons need to be dead.

linki: ninja'd

I still don't get how the baddies knew LC was precisely Cain.

Alright, I'm going to leave the statistics at this.

Game
Votes

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:I played as I did because I was going to die on Day 6 anyway. Would have been nice of some of you to actually give me a chance to get there like I asked, instead of voting for me and foolishly wasting a lynch. Next time listen to me when I say to give me a chance to prove myself.

You know better than to ask for such things.

Clearly not.

Long Con wrote: Epignosis: Can you please explain why you were trying to get me to say I didn't need all Cylons dead in order to "get your help"? Was any of that real in any way? What happens when someone says it, you get to send them a PM?

My understanding was that if a human said it, and that human needed all Cylons dead, their win condition would change to mine, that of needing Cavil and his minions dead to win.

I tried to help you out, man!

Next time when I try to get your ass to say something, say it.

Sorry, I don't trust Cylons. We're better off with them all dead.

Anyway, it wouldn't have made any real difference to me, because I still would be dead after Phase 6. Come to think of it, such an uncharacteristic compromise of my goals and ethics might have cost me the Theme MVP prize, thus costing me the win. I'm glad I made the right decision and didn't say it.

Dex wrote:

Long Con wrote:Wait, what? You switched the lynch to me? Why? Good to know .\

Yeah, sorry about that man, but your role had to go. Actually, I targeted you another time, but then the fleet jumped before I got my PM in.

It was a waste of your power, any lynch of Cain was a waste and a drag on the game. Better to ignore Cain and let her die naturally after phase 6. As I said in the game.

So...the only way you were going to win, LC, was the theme MVP?

Golden wrote:LC - you did need the Cavil faction dead. You then ALSO needed every other cylon dead... but so did every other human if you were alive.

Ah, inclusive... gotcha!

Epignosis wrote:So...the only way you were going to win, LC, was the theme MVP?

That was the easiest way, yes. If fortune had smiled upon me and Adama and Roslin were dead by night 6, then it would have been a different story.

Ricochet wrote:I still don't get how the baddies knew LC was precisely Cain.

SVS called out lots of you based on your role, and was right nearly every time. She has a nose for that kind of thing. She correctly guessed that Matt was Starbuck, LC was Cain, bea was Sam, Jay was Adama, she had silverwolf and OA sorted very early, she was pretty certain G-Man and nutella were her baddie teammates...

I don't remember what else. I'm surprised I never saw her note you being Romo.

My role didn't pay off as far as making people wonder what I'm tasked to do. No controversial players to defend, either, except for maybe sig. I wonder if I could have, in theory, gotten to defend John Cavil, simply by virtue of him being alive.

Ricochet wrote:My role didn't pay off as far as making people wonder what I'm tasked to do. No controversial players to defend, either, except for maybe sig. I wonder if I could have, in theory, gotten to defend John Cavil, simply by virtue of him being alive.

Yep, you could have. You also could have gotten yourself . It was always randomised from the complete list of living players.

Golden wrote:

Ricochet wrote:My role didn't pay off as far as making people wonder what I'm tasked to do. No controversial players to defend, either, except for maybe sig. I wonder if I could have, in theory, gotten to defend John Cavil, simply by virtue of him being alive.

Yep, you could have. You also could have gotten yourself . It was always randomised from the complete list of living players.

I believe there's a sample of roughly 200 posts of me defending myself at the start of my ISO.

Ricochet wrote:I think Adama's win con, despite the role description, changed as soon as he acknowledged that not all Cylons need to be dead.

Yep. This actually happened for me during Night 1 or Day 2, and I think it contributed to Epignosis suspecting me on some level. At first after his Athena flip, I still needed all cylons dead so I was content to continue ushering him toward the gallows. But that changed abruptly and I had to turn it around.

Ricochet wrote:I still don't get how the baddies knew LC was precisely Cain.

I wasn't mafia at the time, but for me the icing on the cake was when LC segued from denying he was Cain to defending Cain.

Dex wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I still don't get how the baddies knew LC was precisely Cain.

I wasn't mafia at the time, but for me the icing on the cake was when LC segued from denying he was Cain to defending Cain.

Yeah, it became just more convenient to do that.

LC - I kept posting about shit I knew BTS that I wasn't backing up with thread evidence. I don't even remember which posts it was, just that I got a little too forthcoming with BTS info.

Yay I won,


Good game everyone I enjoyed it even though I tunneled on two good cylons almost the entire game.

Also thanks Golden it looked super complex and was fun.

Golden, you had concepts going here that I found completely creative and opened my mind to new possibilities. You did this while being completely immersed in the ultimate Mafia Championship. I may be a little drunk right now, but some of the concepts I was very impressed with were the idea of making Laws that impact the game (this is something I think could really be expanded on in future games)... I don't know if G-Man inserted the quality deception involved in his messages, or if it was suggested/dictated in his role, but that was cool: messages signed by a fake sender at the very least. Very good stuff! You were brazenly cavalier regarding Win Conditions, and I think that, all in all, led to fun for many involved. Epi's goal of getting people to say a specific phrase to result in a larger-scale impact on Win Conditions was super-cool, and is something that would be very difficult to replicate in future games due to its very nature... but I still think it's something that could be expanded upon from the right Host with the right amount of subtlety.

All in all, your decisions and plans in this game show you to be an Alpha-level Host in my personal opinion, and, provided I have the time, I would, willingly and even blindly, dive right into a game that has you at the helm. And that's even considering the criticisms I have of the game. That's a good thing. Fantastic job!

Remind me in two days if you don't have banners by then.

sig wrote:Yay I won,


Good game everyone I enjoyed it even though I tunneled on two good cylons almost the entire game.

Also thanks Golden it looked super complex and was fun.

You're welcome Sig, keep the change... :P

Well done. Great game and concepts.

As for my play.....

Epignosis gets the role where he's good and trying his damnedest but people think he's bad the whole time regardless...

da law is da law

Golden wrote:Long Con gets a grand epic role that allows him to tell a story with it.

Well, whoop-de-f*cking-....... actually, that's a pretty good fit for me. All I want is to be able to act out and get attention, really.

Epignosis wrote:Epignosis gets the role where he's good and trying his damnedest but people think he's bad the whole time regardless...

If my Win Condition hadn't required your death, I would have supported you. I wanted to, very much. I liked your style.

...and honestly, now that the game is over... what was up with suspecting me for stealing a Sortie away from the 'Plan' to make a point?

Please tell me that it was only baddies that were going with that angle.

Frankly, I still don't get why you felt the need to butt in or what the point you made with it was. Especially since it drew attention to you and you were secretly a role that needed as little attention as possible.

No, I'm pretty sure it was only the civvies...

And drumbeats suggested a grid pattern skipping a2 where a ship actually was...

And without knowledge, svs nailed the first sortie that was successful.

The sorties were such a fun time.

Ricochet wrote:Frankly, I still don't get why you felt the need to butt in or what the point you made with it was.

Ok, first I should clarify something, my last post was not entirely honest. The main reason I did it was to just mess with the carefully planned method for purely chaotic glee. I did it because it made me laugh to do it.

BUT, the vehicle within which I justified it to myself was the fact that everyone was following DrumBeats' plan without question, when he could have very well been a bold baddie with Civvie-hindering designs. It would have been smarter t try for some double-blind design, where we filter DrumBeats' plan through another lens that alters it slightly but retains the same spirit. There's the less-smart move, and the more-smart move, and I think it's pretty obvious which is which.

And yet, few deigned to weigh in on the idea, and even now, you are saying that you don't know the point I was making, and yet I guarantee that I spelled it out with relatively the same level of precision as I did in the previous paragraph, and more than once. You might (or perhaps more likely, might not) recall me complaining that people weren't reading my posts. This is what I'm talking about.

On the flip side, it was a long time ago in the game, and maybe you don't have a photographic memory, and don't remember my posts that long ago. That's fair. Maybe I just gave an inflated sense of the relevance of my posts.

Especially since it drew attention to you and you were secretly a role that needed as little attention as possible.

My headspace at that point was that my days were numbered no matter what I did, and I feared no lynch, so I should try to shake things up and see where my suspicions played out in the wake of it all. I felt somewhat safe in the knowledge that a) I was immune to lynch the first three days, and b) I had the power to jump the fleet in the next three days (until my death), so I had a great measure of control over whether or not I got lynched even then. ( Dex, I never thought Tory would do something like that to good ol' Long Con...)

Also, I was not aware that everyone's Win Conditions would change to mine when I became Admiral. Were that not the case, the Long Con thrust-into-the-spotlight thing would have lost most of its fuel, and it's unlikely I would have gotten near the attention that I did.

You're right, perhaps I forgot some details, but I still retain the impression that your actual move was more Leroy Jenkins like then "hey, why don't we settle on a whole different pattern, so that we're on the safe side". It would have been odd for me not to agree with such a suggestion, as long as there was some mutual agreement between players.

Golden wrote:One other thing I meant to mention...

I feel like the random gods were shining down on me when I randomised the roles.

Rico has a role highlighting pedantry
Long Con gets a grand epic role that allows him to tell a story with it
Vompatti gets a role where his votes count negative, highlighting an appearance of randomness even further (that was before he even then went and got executed for treason!)
Indiglo gets one of her favourite characters
Matt gets a character where he literally cannot be silenced
Jay gets a role where he is the genuine 'leader of the town'.

I can't remember if there were others, but it was pretty neat.

I was not starbuck but I got to be married to her...

For realzies - I was all "the best part of my role is I mary Starbuck." *waves* hi matt!!!

Epignosis wrote:Epignosis gets the role where he's good and trying his damnedest but people think he's bad the whole time regardless...

I never thought you were bad.

Long Con wrote:...and honestly, now that the game is over... what was up with suspecting me for stealing a Sortie away from the 'Plan' to make a point?

Please tell me that it was only baddies that were going with that angle.

I can tell you about why I didn't vote for you even though I was fairly positive I didn't want you around.


I have no idea about the PLAN. I'm not typically a player who gets included in those sorts of things.

But when you and svs were going round and round. You kept accusing her of role playing. So much so that I thought you were accusing her of roleplaying so much because your shenanigans with the sorties was you role playing. And you were begging for more time to prove yourself. And in my head cannon, without knowing Cain or that you would eventually die anyway, my thought was "who bucks authority at every turn and is still a civ? Fuck. I can't lynch my lady Starbuck."

So FWIW to you and the rest that might wonder why I didn't vote you when it was "completely obvious" you were Cain- that's where my personal head was.

And I was kinda shocked when svs was proven right. It gave her cred for me because I hated Cain as a character. I didn't want to lynch epi to win. I LOVED my win with all cylons who aren't aligned with Cavil win as civs. I was dumb and blind for not seeing that she was fucking Cavil till I was already mostly dead. At that point comic con and my hubby were pulling my cares

LC, I would have done exactly the same thing I did if I were a civ. That is why I always get suspected when I am a civ and not as much when I am bad,paradoxically. Most of the time I leap before I look either way. My thoughts on you had nothing to do with my affiliation, and everything to do with yours

bea wrote:

Golden wrote:One other thing I meant to mention...

I feel like the random gods were shining down on me when I randomised the roles.

Rico has a role highlighting pedantry
Long Con gets a grand epic role that allows him to tell a story with it
Vompatti gets a role where his votes count negative, highlighting an appearance of randomness even further (that was before he even then went and got executed for treason!)
Indiglo gets one of her favourite characters
Matt gets a character where he literally cannot be silenced
Jay gets a role where he is the genuine 'leader of the town'.

I can't remember if there were others, but it was pretty neat.

I was not starbuck but I got to be married to her...

For realzies - I was all "the best part of my role is I mary Starbuck." *waves* hi matt!!!

LOL

First to Golden's list...yeah dude I went full force this game because I was like "EFF IT I'm gonna be here the whole time regardless so might as well go FULL MATT on this bitch"...too bad I was wrong on like, everything.

Second...yeah bea, when I saw you flip Anders, I was like "Ahhhh wtf wtf wtf" hahahaha. I'm sorry you didn't like my ruthlessness going after the non-claimers but I was adamant that DEM PEEPS CLAIM hahahaha.

As always, it was a joy to play mafia with you bea

bea wrote:

Long Con wrote:...and honestly, now that the game is over... what was up with suspecting me for stealing a Sortie away from the 'Plan' to make a point?

Please tell me that it was only baddies that were going with that angle.

I can tell you about why I didn't vote for you even though I was fairly positive I didn't want you around.


I have no idea about the PLAN. I'm not typically a player who gets included in those sorts of things.

But when you and svs were going round and round. You kept accusing her of role playing. So much so that I thought you were accusing her of roleplaying so much because your shenanigans with the sorties was you role playing.

I kept accusing her of roleplaying because of the excessive amount of roleplaying that she was using in her gameplay.... wait, you thought I was accusing her because... really?? Wow, okay. I guess it really is just a pipe dream that people would just read my posts and understand what I am saying in them, and analyze the correctness of the intended communication. That is so frustrating, I didn't think my communications were so complex.

And you were begging for more time to prove yourself.

Indeed I was, I didn't want the Civs to waste a lynch... but Dex wanted to waste one, and his power trumped mine.

And in my head cannon, without knowing Cain or that you would eventually die anyway, my thought was "who bucks authority at every turn and is still a civ? Fuck. I can't lynch my lady Starbuck."

So FWIW to you and the rest that might wonder why I didn't vote you when it was "completely obvious" you were Cain- that's where my personal head was.

I didn't wonder that at all. I wondered why people DID vote for me, I wasn't being concerned with why someone DIDN'T vote for me. If you thought I was Starbuck, then why were you "fairly positive you didn't want me around"?

S~V~S wrote:LC, I would have done exactly the same thing I did if I were a civ. That is why I always get suspected when I am a civ and not as much when I am bad,paradoxically. Most of the time I leap before I look either way. My thoughts on you had nothing to do with my affiliation, and everything to do with yours

No one is questioning or disputing that.

This is what I want to know:

Long Con wrote:

John Cavil wrote:It never occurred to you to question why I barely fought back? Or why I was so sure LC was trying to be lynched?

Why did you say this after I was already dead? What purpose does this lie serve?

You acted like your role had some knowledge that everyone else didn't have. Why did you imply that you had some knowledge that I was "trying to be lynched", especially since I was already dead at the time?

Long Con wrote: Wow, okay. I guess it really is just a pipe dream that people would just read my posts and understand what I am saying in them, and analyze the correctness of the intended communication. That is so frustrating, I didn't think my communications were so complex.

It's not that readers may not understand what you're posting, it's really a matter of whether or not they believe you're telling the truth. For example, going with Drumbeats' sortie plan made you uneasy, because he could have been manipulating everything to come out for his good and our bad (our = civs). As you know, the same thing could have been true about what you were saying in the thread. (As it turned out, his plan was solid, truthful and without malice, yet it's impossible to know that during game play.) So just like Drumbeats' plan, what you are communicating may also be a manipulation designed to come out for your good and our bad.

I can hear you are extremely frustrated, and I appreciate that. I am also extremely frustrated with what happened to me in the game. So I'm not saying what I'm saying to make your frustration seem wrong or out of place, because I don't think it is wrong or out of place, my goal here is just to explain where my head is at in a mafia game, and where I think other peoples' (or other civs') heads may be at in a game context.

You happened to be telling the truth, at the same time, since no one can read your mind, no one knew this. I have not seen in recent memory a role design where it automatically dies at a certain point in the game. So that role mechanic would not have even entered my mind, no matter how much you were indirectly or directly hinting at it, I just never would have come up with that idea unless and until it was 100% spelled out for me. (In fact, I have to say that I really respect the fact that you went ahead and played your role, knowing you wouldn't last long from the get go.) It's just that no one else knew that, and couldn't take what you said at face value... because, well, mafia. There are lots of unknowns when you're civ. You yourself even said you were as surprised as anybody that Cain flipped "civ". So I think many other civs felt the same way, and since we didn't know you'd self-destruct, you were taken out just in case, to make our win cons easier.

Does that make sense and help at all?

Yea. Sorry. I didn't explain that very well lc. :/. I thought it was you were Starbuck or bad. Lol. Not and. I was willing to wait in case it was the former. I also thought for a long time that zeebs and wigly were Baltar and 6. So shows what I know about anything....

Long Con wrote:

S~V~S wrote:LC, I would have done exactly the same thing I did if I were a civ. That is why I always get suspected when I am a civ and not as much when I am bad,paradoxically. Most of the time I leap before I look either way. My thoughts on you had nothing to do with my affiliation, and everything to do with yours

No one is questioning or disputing that.

This is what I want to know:

Long Con wrote:

John Cavil wrote:It never occurred to you to question why I barely fought back? Or why I was so sure LC was trying to be lynched?

Why did you say this after I was already dead? What purpose does this lie serve?

You acted like your role had some knowledge that everyone else didn't have. Why did you imply that you had some knowledge that I was "trying to be lynched", especially since I was already dead at the time?

I did not imply knowledge, and what I said here has no bearing on when you were alive. What I said here WAS manipulation, but it was after you died. When You were alive I said what I said cause I thought it was true

I thought you were trying to get lynched to set up civ cred for yourself. When very early in the game you drew attention to trhe roles, you said to be on the lookout for a lynch when the person with the second most votes is the one lynched, a civvie role. I don;t recall which offhand. I thought you were trying to look like you were hinting that YOU were that role, when I doubt you would do so were you really that role. Then when it looked like you were getting lynched, it looked to me like you did not care; like you knew you would not be lynched, as I said at the time.

In retrospect, that appears to be true, seeing the role secrets revealed.

I understand your frustration, but it is easy to tend to think that anyone who does not see you the way you see yourself is becasue they are bad, and in this case, while I WAS bad, it had no bearing on my perception of the situation. I would 100% acted exactly the same when I was NOT bad.

I thought you were trying to get lynched for faux cred, and I thought your role was bad news for me and for everyone else. I thought any role (not *you*, your role) that could just change everyones win cons & take the win away from civvies could not be a good thing. Especially in retrospect, when more cylons were good than bad.

I am somewhat perplexed this game when I think I played a very soft bad game that so many people are upset with me for playing the hand I was dealt, tbh.

S~V~S wrote:

Long Con wrote:

S~V~S wrote:LC, I would have done exactly the same thing I did if I were a civ. That is why I always get suspected when I am a civ and not as much when I am bad,paradoxically. Most of the time I leap before I look either way. My thoughts on you had nothing to do with my affiliation, and everything to do with yours

No one is questioning or disputing that.

This is what I want to know:

Long Con wrote:

John Cavil wrote:It never occurred to you to question why I barely fought back? Or why I was so sure LC was trying to be lynched?

Why did you say this after I was already dead? What purpose does this lie serve?

You acted like your role had some knowledge that everyone else didn't have. Why did you imply that you had some knowledge that I was "trying to be lynched", especially since I was already dead at the time?

I did not imply knowledge, and what I said here has no bearing on when you were alive. What I said here WAS manipulation, but it was after you died.

Ok, that's good, that's something that I can totally understand. It's worth noting though, that this is one instance of you playing differently as the baddie you were... different from what your Civ game would have looked like.

When You were alive I said what I said cause I thought it was true

I thought you were trying to get lynched to set up civ cred for yourself. When very early in the game you drew attention to trhe roles, you said to be on the lookout for a lynch when the person with the second most votes is the one lynched, a civvie role. I don;t recall which offhand. I thought you were trying to look like you were hinting that YOU were that role, when I doubt you would do so were you really that role.

That, too, I get... and always got. But, the post which you reference (here) was truly just what it looks like: an analysis of the roles and things to be aware of surrounding the roles. I wasn't hinting that I was any other role I mentioned there, so it's very slightly eyebrow-raising that you would single THAT one out of all the rest. But I can accept that; Mafia is a game of subtleties.

Then when it looked like you were getting lynched, it looked to me like you did not care; like you knew you would not be lynched, as I said at the time.

In retrospect, that appears to be true, seeing the role secrets revealed.

That is generally accurate, except that what you said at the time WASN'T that I "knew I would not be lynched"... it WAS that I "was trying to be lynched". Those are two very different things, and you never let up on the "trying to get lynched" thing despite my repeated and emphatic denials of it. THAT is what caused the majority of the frustration I felt - THAT is what I'll note in the future that tags you as a baddie. And if I'm wrong in that future, then too bad. It will be a repercussion that you earned from me.

I understand your frustration, but it is easy to tend to think that anyone who does not see you the way you see yourself is because they are bad, and in this case, while I WAS bad, it had no bearing on my perception of the situation. I would 100% acted exactly the same when I was NOT bad.

Well, as I noted earlier in this post, that is not entirely true. I totally understand why you want that to be the general perception of your gameplay, but the fact is that there are some things you did that were solely because you were bad. So I'm vetoing that "100%".

I thought you were trying to get lynched for faux cred, and I thought your role was bad news for me and for everyone else. I thought any role (not *you*, your role) that could just change everyones win cons & take the win away from civvies could not be a good thing. Especially in retrospect, when more cylons were good than bad.

Totally agree with you on that front. If I had known that I would be changing everyone's Win Conditions, I would have acted differently. At least in retrospect.... even I can't predict how I would have acted, given that my 6-day death sentence was always hanging over my head from the moment the game started. I'd like to think that, given the chance and the knowledge, I would have had the wherewithal to be more subtle about things generally. Really, we'll never know - I'm a wild card sometimes.

I am somewhat perplexed this game when I think I played a very soft bad game that so many people are upset with me for playing the hand I was dealt, tbh.

Most of my upsetness was due to your insistence that I was trying to get lynched, and your complete dismissal of my passionate denials of that.

Otherwise... I would really appreciate you acknowledging the fact that you were roleplaying instead of Mafia playing in all of the instances that I (as concisely as possible) laid out. I understand why you would completely ignore my points in that regard during the game, since you were bad, but it would be really decent of you to accept it now.

And, as I said during the game, I will not require you to add anything to your sig, despite the reality that I could enforce it if it were something that I'm down with.