The Syndicate

DrumBeats wrote:I was likely wrong about TH is what happened. Might not have been because looking at Kelly's role she can get promoted when she finds Ryan. Ryan is mafia. She could have been promoted to mafia, hence why nobody has been talking in questions the last two phases.

I'm still relatively sure Epi is mafia, the instant case drop on INH to bea when Espers was almost lynched makes me confident there. And I'll keep pushing this no matter how many petty insults Epi throws at me for doing so.

You're arrogant and don't listen is what happened. You are bad.

For everybody else: TH said I was good. Go see. He had a way of knowing.

Stop letting DB lead you.

I was silenced by the way.

Come on DrumBeats. Tell me more about how I'm bad.

I'd like to be brought back, but some guy was all like, nah, fuck you man.

Epignosis wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:I was likely wrong about TH is what happened. Might not have been because looking at Kelly's role she can get promoted when she finds Ryan. Ryan is mafia. She could have been promoted to mafia, hence why nobody has been talking in questions the last two phases.

I'm still relatively sure Epi is mafia, the instant case drop on INH to bea when Espers was almost lynched makes me confident there. And I'll keep pushing this no matter how many petty insults Epi throws at me for doing so.

You're arrogant and don't listen is what happened. You are bad.

For everybody else: TH said I was good. Go see. He had a way of knowing.

Stop letting DB lead you.

I was silenced by the way.

Says the one who literally is just throwing insults instead of trying to contribute rn. I feel like I have to lead things right now because just about everybody else is inactive to some degree. That's why I want Scotty back, another active civ to take pressure off my shoulders here.

TH's way of knowing is by finding Ryan. Ryan is bad.

Well fuck. I'm sorry th. that's what I get for going against my gut.

I still have a civ role in mind for epi that isn't Pam. Unless I'm dumb. Which is likely.

Epi do you think drumbeats is bad or just following bad theory? If you gave me the botd and allowed that I could be civ, who else would you like to see looked at?

Drumbeats - besides epi, who else do you think is bad and why?


As for the poll, I'm torn between Scotty and indi. I'd love to see wabbit back cuz his ass kicking is what we deserve, but who knows if he's been keeping up....

Voted rabbit. Dude never had a chance.

I figure anyone who died after the Strangler was lynched is almost certainly cig, so I'll vote Juliets because she is always a nice presence in games.

Except that Oscar was alive until Day 6, so targets could have been switched before then. And we don't even know all the roles to even know if it's possible that there is another civ or indy target switcher (even putting aside baddie shenanigans). I think it's dangerous to assume that all night targets are civ, especially before Day 6.

And the further back we go, the less likely someone is paying attention. And even if a deadie is following the game, one's level of following is different when one isn't in the game--moreso the further back one goes.

I think Scotty is the best choice. For these reasons and because he was clearly on his game when he was alive. I want an active player back in the game who won't have too much catching up to do. Voting now.

rabbit8 wrote:

Scotty.

Would anyone object to an early night? I have all the PMs.

actually, scratch that-- night's over.

Scotty has been rezz'd.
Bea has been killed.
It is now Day 10. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

Who deserves a second chance?

Poll runs till Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:19 pm
You may select 1 option


rabbit8
1
timmer (11) 6%
elohcin
0
No votes
leetic
0
No votes
JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes
SVS
0
No votes
Indiglo
0
No votes
Juliets
1
DFaraday (13) 6%
Serge
0
No votes
Scotty
4
DrumBeats (6), LoRab (14), bea (15), Epignosis (16) 25%
insertnamehere
0
No votes
Niall (dom)
10
Dom (1), Quin (2), JaggedJimmyJay (3), Dex (4), indiglo (5), Scotty (7), Golden (8), Bubbles (9), insertnamehere (10), juliets (12) 63%

Scotty, welcome back. What do you think about my case on Epignosis?


Also I'm voting DFaraday.

DrumBeats wrote:Scotty, welcome back. What do you think about my case on Epignosis?


Also I'm voting DFaraday.

Scotty told me your case against me is bad, and that you are bad, and you should feel bad. All in BTSC.

I went ahead and put a vote on Epi for now to make sure we don't have another SVS/Quin situation. Although now that TH flipped civ, I need to reevaluate the players we have left for connections.

DFaraday wrote:I went ahead and put a vote on Epi for now to make sure we don't have another SVS/Quin situation. Although now that TH flipped civ, I need to reevaluate the players we have left for connections.

TH flips civ, and you vote Epi to make sure there isn't another early end day? I'm not sure I see the logic. And I'd think if the baddies were doing another Quin situation, they'd already have gone forth with their plans.

That said, I'm finding you increasingly suspish and I'm going to vote for you, for now at least. Since you seem to be up on voting early, you surely understand.

Eyyyyyyyy it's good to be back, fellows! I'm just getting out of rehearsal but I'll catch up more thoroughly in a bit.

RIP bea, and holy cow, we caught a Mafia in espers! Yahooooo! We're gonna pull out of this. Makes me wonder if Michael has a rezz ability? Though that's pretty shotty if his ability goes to group vote.

DrumBeats wrote:Scotty, welcome back. What do you think about my case on Epignosis?


Also I'm voting DFaraday.

First and foremost, I'm not confident you yourself are not bad, but thank you for voting me in.
Secondly, I think it is a legitimate case. And I will reference to it in a bit.

Epignosis wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:Scotty, welcome back. What do you think about my case on Epignosis?


Also I'm voting DFaraday.

Scotty told me your case against me is bad, and that you are bad, and you should feel bad. All in BTSC.

I actually have no idea what you are talking about. Why are you still alive in this game?

Why are you still alive?

Why are you still alive?



Because I wasn't killed, genius.

LoRab wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I went ahead and put a vote on Epi for now to make sure we don't have another SVS/Quin situation. Although now that TH flipped civ, I need to reevaluate the players we have left for connections.

TH flips civ, and you vote Epi to make sure there isn't another early end day? I'm not sure I see the logic. And I'd think if the baddies were doing another Quin situation, they'd already have gone forth with their plans.

That said, I'm finding you increasingly suspish and I'm going to vote for you, for now at least. Since you seem to be up on voting early, you surely understand.

I voted early because DB voted extremely early with zero explanation, which is obviously reminiscent of the SVS debacle. If the vote hadn't been on me, of course I wouldn't have felt the need. You're seriously saying you wouldn't be on edge if someone immediately votes you with no reasoning in a game where someone instantly died as a result of that? Yeah, they probably would have done it already, but I was occupied during the 15 minutes or whatever between DB's vote and the time I saw it, so I reacted as soon as I could. I voted Epi because even though TH has been cleared, Epi still has been distinctly unhelpful lately, and I'm not at all convinced that he's good.

And if you have other reasons for finding me suspicious, please elaborate.

DFaraday wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I went ahead and put a vote on Epi for now to make sure we don't have another SVS/Quin situation. Although now that TH flipped civ, I need to reevaluate the players we have left for connections.

TH flips civ, and you vote Epi to make sure there isn't another early end day? I'm not sure I see the logic. And I'd think if the baddies were doing another Quin situation, they'd already have gone forth with their plans.

That said, I'm finding you increasingly suspish and I'm going to vote for you, for now at least. Since you seem to be up on voting early, you surely understand.

I voted early because DB voted extremely early with zero explanation, which is obviously reminiscent of the SVS debacle. If the vote hadn't been on me, of course I wouldn't have felt the need. You're seriously saying you wouldn't be on edge if someone immediately votes you with no reasoning in a game where someone instantly died as a result of that? Yeah, they probably would have done it already, but I was occupied during the 15 minutes or whatever between DB's vote and the time I saw it, so I reacted as soon as I could. I voted Epi because even though TH has been cleared, Epi still has been distinctly unhelpful lately, and I'm not at all convinced that he's good.

And if you have other reasons for finding me suspicious, please elaborate.

From an outsiders point of view, I see a difference. Dom posted the lynch post 16 minutes after SVS posted that she had voted. Your post was 22 minutes after DB's post. Sure, the same end day could be in play, but I don't see why the baddies would wit that much longer. Also, they used up that power, according to the roles. Do you know that they have another save? Do you have reason to think that they might have another save?

My base reasons of suspecting you haven't really changed from what I posted earlier. You made good post in defense, but baddies are more than capable of doing so. I don't think you're civ.

Scotty wrote:Eyyyyyyyy it's good to be back, fellows! I'm just getting out of rehearsal but I'll catch up more thoroughly in a bit.

RIP bea, and holy cow, we caught a Mafia in espers! Yahooooo! We're gonna pull out of this. Makes me wonder if Michael has a rezz ability? Though that's pretty shotty if his ability goes to group vote.

DrumBeats wrote:Scotty, welcome back. What do you think about my case on Epignosis?


Also I'm voting DFaraday.

First and foremost, I'm not confident you yourself are not bad, but thank you for voting me in.
Secondly, I think it is a legitimate case. And I will reference to it in a bit.

Epignosis wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:Scotty, welcome back. What do you think about my case on Epignosis?


Also I'm voting DFaraday.

Scotty told me your case against me is bad, and that you are bad, and you should feel bad. All in BTSC.

I actually have no idea what you are talking about. Why are you still alive in this game?

Activity and rationality are the two things we need most now - I know you supply both things.

LoRab wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I went ahead and put a vote on Epi for now to make sure we don't have another SVS/Quin situation. Although now that TH flipped civ, I need to reevaluate the players we have left for connections.

TH flips civ, and you vote Epi to make sure there isn't another early end day? I'm not sure I see the logic. And I'd think if the baddies were doing another Quin situation, they'd already have gone forth with their plans.

That said, I'm finding you increasingly suspish and I'm going to vote for you, for now at least. Since you seem to be up on voting early, you surely understand.

I voted early because DB voted extremely early with zero explanation, which is obviously reminiscent of the SVS debacle. If the vote hadn't been on me, of course I wouldn't have felt the need. You're seriously saying you wouldn't be on edge if someone immediately votes you with no reasoning in a game where someone instantly died as a result of that? Yeah, they probably would have done it already, but I was occupied during the 15 minutes or whatever between DB's vote and the time I saw it, so I reacted as soon as I could. I voted Epi because even though TH has been cleared, Epi still has been distinctly unhelpful lately, and I'm not at all convinced that he's good.

And if you have other reasons for finding me suspicious, please elaborate.

From an outsiders point of view, I see a difference. Dom posted the lynch post 16 minutes after SVS posted that she had voted. Your post was 22 minutes after DB's post. Sure, the same end day could be in play, but I don't see why the baddies would wit that much longer. Also, they used up that power, according to the roles. Do you know that they have another save? Do you have reason to think that they might have another save?

My base reasons of suspecting you haven't really changed from what I posted earlier. You made good post in defense, but baddies are more than capable of doing so. I don't think you're civ.

How do you feel about Epi?

Honestly? I'm not sure. He seems arrogant with an aura of eff you to the players, but that's kind of how he plays generally (not a criticism or an insult, it's how he comes off in the thread usually, and I believe intentionally). Which makes him hard to read. There are moments at which he has seemed to be obviously bad, but then others where that totally breaks down. And more moments at which he's been a question mark.

That the main case against him recently was that he was TH's baddie teammate, the fact that TH flipped civ gives me a hole lot of pause. Your explanations, tbh, seem to be reaching to make reality fit into your assumptions. The facts make Epi seem less suspish to me now than in the last lynch.

But my mind is open. At this point, I suspect everyone other than myself. We're at that point of the game.

The main suspicion of him wasn't being TH's teammate, it was his jump in suspicion from INH to Bea, immediately when espers was about to be lynched. He then stealth switched his vote to bea on the last minute, which had a 50% chance of saving espers life. There's no way in hell that was a coincidence.

DrumBeats wrote:The main suspicion of him wasn't being TH's teammate, it was his jump in suspicion from INH to Bea, immediately when espers was about to be lynched. He then stealth switched his vote to bea on the last minute, which had a 50% chance of saving espers life. There's no way in hell that was a coincidence.

Most of your posts seemed to be about connecting them, but I'll have to reread to see what you mean. I do find it hard to believe tht Epi would be so obvious--in my experience he's a much better baddie than to be so obvious. What you describe doesn't seem to be what I'd expect from an evil Epi. He could be fooling me, but it's not the sense I'm getting. It just doesn't feel like FEB Epi to me.

You seem to be overly convinced of his badness, just like you were about TH. And you were wrong about TH. So, I'm finding it hard to trust your read on Epi because you were wrong on TH. And, in my own reading back, I'm more leaning towards DF being suspish than Epi being suspish. So that's where my vote is.

LoRab wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:The main suspicion of him wasn't being TH's teammate, it was his jump in suspicion from INH to Bea, immediately when espers was about to be lynched. He then stealth switched his vote to bea on the last minute, which had a 50% chance of saving espers life. There's no way in hell that was a coincidence.

Most of your posts seemed to be about connecting them, but I'll have to reread to see what you mean. I do find it hard to believe tht Epi would be so obvious--in my experience he's a much better baddie than to be so obvious. What you describe doesn't seem to be what I'd expect from an evil Epi. He could be fooling me, but it's not the sense I'm getting. It just doesn't feel like FEB Epi to me.

You seem to be overly convinced of his badness, just like you were about TH. And you were wrong about TH. So, I'm finding it hard to trust your read on Epi because you were wrong on TH. And, in my own reading back, I'm more leaning towards DF being suspish than Epi being suspish. So that's where my vote is.

Consider that it was likely a MYLO situation and why the hell wouldn't Epi do that.


I'm still not 100% sure I was wrong about TH. Look at the role. TH had to find Ryan, a mafia. Until then, somebody had to speak in questions everyday - that hasn't happened in a while. I highly suspect a mafia convert occurring imo because TH's two suspicions afterward were false (one on bea and one on myself).

You claimed Lorab that some situations have made Epi seem to "break down" the fact that he is bad. Where? Give me situations because factually, Epi pushed INH constantly, then jumped with little reasoning to Bea and I, despite his prior persistence on INH. Then stealth forced a tie to SAVE A MAFIA MEMBER. Make a case on DFaraday right now that is better than that. Otherwise, I am going to assume that your vote on him is solely taking advantage of my own vote on him and that you are the next mafia to lynch.

Your opinions seem to align more against myself, as do Epi's, so I propose we make this lynch interesting. Let's all vote between Epi and I this phase. I could use some excitement

DrumBeats wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:The main suspicion of him wasn't being TH's teammate, it was his jump in suspicion from INH to Bea, immediately when espers was about to be lynched. He then stealth switched his vote to bea on the last minute, which had a 50% chance of saving espers life. There's no way in hell that was a coincidence.

Most of your posts seemed to be about connecting them, but I'll have to reread to see what you mean. I do find it hard to believe tht Epi would be so obvious--in my experience he's a much better baddie than to be so obvious. What you describe doesn't seem to be what I'd expect from an evil Epi. He could be fooling me, but it's not the sense I'm getting. It just doesn't feel like FEB Epi to me.

You seem to be overly convinced of his badness, just like you were about TH. And you were wrong about TH. So, I'm finding it hard to trust your read on Epi because you were wrong on TH. And, in my own reading back, I'm more leaning towards DF being suspish than Epi being suspish. So that's where my vote is.

Consider that it was likely a MYLO situation and why the hell wouldn't Epi do that.


I'm still not 100% sure I was wrong about TH. Look at the role. TH had to find Ryan, a mafia. Until then, somebody had to speak in questions everyday - that hasn't happened in a while. I highly suspect a mafia convert occurring imo because TH's two suspicions afterward were false (one on bea and one on myself).

You claimed Lorab that some situations have made Epi seem to "break down" the fact that he is bad. Where? Give me situations because factually, Epi pushed INH constantly, then jumped with little reasoning to Bea and I, despite his prior persistence on INH. Then stealth forced a tie to SAVE A MAFIA MEMBER. Make a case on DFaraday right now that is better than that. Otherwise, I am going to assume that your vote on him is solely taking advantage of my own vote on him and that you are the next mafia to lynch.

Your opinions seem to align more against myself, as do Epi's, so I propose we make this lynch interesting. Let's all vote between Epi and I this phase. I could use some excitement

Going in order...

I've played with Epi a long time. What you describe doesn't sound like he way he plays. i get why a player would do what you describe, but that doesn't sound like how he plays the game. It's a judgment call. I'll revisit in the future, but for the moment, I'm not reading him as bad.

Your posts about TH seem like you are hanging on to your theory, even after it hasn't followed through. Given the characters, it makes no sense that Kelly would become bad--maybe that Ryan would be converted to civ, but it makes no sense within the plot that Kelly would go bad. I just can't see that happening.

I have no idea what you're talking about with "break down" can you clarify? I really don't know what you mean.

I've stated my suspicion of DF and my reasons. You can read them in my earlier posts. And I don't assume that INH was necessarily civ, just like I don't believe that any night kill was necssarily civ. If you make that assumption then you are either naive or mafia. I don't think your'e mafia, for the record. But I think you're not looking at the full picture.

I don't think Epi would be so obvious in defending and saving a no show teammate. I just don't. I have played with him a long time and I don't think he'd do that. He'd much sooner throw a no show under the bus and drive over him back and forth a few times. What you describe isn't how FEB Epi plays.

If that makes you suspect me, so be it. I have reasons for my suspicions and assumptions. That they may not agree with yours has nothing to do with whether or not I am correct. After you insisted on our lynching TH, then I really don't think that you're in a position to threaten anyone that doesn't agree with you.

That's not how I play. Sorry.

And, no, I won't play your reindeer games and I have no plans to vote for you. I don't think you're bad, either. So, no. Not taking your deal. And I don't think you're right to make such dichotomies. Yes, there are baddies. I simply think you are wrong about them. That doesn't make you bad. It just makes you wrong.

It was a MYLO situation imo. In a MYLO situation why the hell wouldn't anyone do that? It was a way he could win the game.

If you don't understand my "breakdown" of the event then you clearly weren't paying attention during it and are stubbornly pushing a defense of your scumbuddy. Your case on DFaraday is very weak, him voting to tie the votes after mine makes perfect sense imo after what happened with Quin. I don't see what world you find THAT to be scum indicative, but not tying the vote to save a scum member in a MYLO situation. I find your placement of a second vote on DFaraday on that weak of a basis to be odd. You are looking for a basis to justify a false suspicion of the only Epi counterwagon you can get an extra help vote on. Your vote is opportunistic and if it doesn't move onto anybody else (preferably Epi, but hey if you want to vote me go ahead) I will be highly suspect of you. Your vote was also on the bea wagon.

Also, you just suggested in that post that Kelly would convert Ryan to civ. That role would literally kill the game because Ryan would know who his fellow scumbuddies are. We know Ryan caused the Quin death, which needed to be planned with Jo, the vote forcer. They had to have BTSC - therfore Ryan could not have been seperated from the rest. No matter what Kelly could not have converted Ryan.

The two Kelly possibilities left are that:

Kelly and Ryan remains the same -
This would mean that TH knew who Ryan was before she died. Bea died last night, and there does not seem to be any way for a civ/indy to redirect it left in the game so Bea is almost assuredly town. The only other person TH brought suspicion to then is me. I know I'm not Ryan, but you guys don't. If you believe this route, you must believe that I am Ryan, so vote for me and not DFaraday.

Another option I'm thinking of too is if Epi is Ryan, and some part of the role made TH believe that Ryan was converted. I really don't believe this option is likely but I could see it being possible somehow due to Kelly's show behavior. If you find this more likely than me being Ryan, vote for Epignosis, and not DFaraday.

Kelly is converted -
This makes the most sense to me. It explains why TH acted the way he did. It would be balanced gamewise because it makes the mafia a 5-6 player team, which is a good reation in a 27 player game. I find this the most likely because Kelly did get drawn in by him way too easily throught the show, like remember when she broke everything off with Darryl for him. It wouldn't surprise me if she would hop over to mafia as well. If this is your believed case, then you should vote for Epi, and not Dfaraday.

DrumBeats wrote:It was a MYLO situation imo. In a MYLO situation why the hell wouldn't anyone do that? It was a way he could win the game.

If you don't understand my "breakdown" of the event then you clearly weren't paying attention during it and are stubbornly pushing a defense of your scumbuddy. Your case on DFaraday is very weak, him voting to tie the votes after mine makes perfect sense imo after what happened with Quin. I don't see what world you find THAT to be scum indicative, but not tying the vote to save a scum member in a MYLO situation. I find your placement of a second vote on DFaraday on that weak of a basis to be odd. You are looking for a basis to justify a false suspicion of the only Epi counterwagon you can get an extra help vote on. Your vote is opportunistic and if it doesn't move onto anybody else (preferably Epi, but hey if you want to vote me go ahead) I will be highly suspect of you. Your vote was also on the bea wagon.

Also, you just suggested in that post that Kelly would convert Ryan to civ. That role would literally kill the game because Ryan would know who his fellow scumbuddies are. We know Ryan caused the Quin death, which needed to be planned with Jo, the vote forcer. They had to have BTSC - therfore Ryan could not have been seperated from the rest. No matter what Kelly could not have converted Ryan.

The two Kelly possibilities left are that:

Kelly and Ryan remains the same -
This would mean that TH knew who Ryan was before she died. Bea died last night, and there does not seem to be any way for a civ/indy to redirect it left in the game so Bea is almost assuredly town. The only other person TH brought suspicion to then is me. I know I'm not Ryan, but you guys don't. If you believe this route, you must believe that I am Ryan, so vote for me and not DFaraday.

Another option I'm thinking of too is if Epi is Ryan, and some part of the role made TH believe that Ryan was converted. I really don't believe this option is likely but I could see it being possible somehow due to Kelly's show behavior. If you find this more likely than me being Ryan, vote for Epignosis, and not DFaraday.

Kelly is converted -
This makes the most sense to me. It explains why TH acted the way he did. It would be balanced gamewise because it makes the mafia a 5-6 player team, which is a good reation in a 27 player game. I find this the most likely because Kelly did get drawn in by him way too easily throught the show, like remember when she broke everything off with Darryl for him. It wouldn't surprise me if she would hop over to mafia as well. If this is your believed case, then you should vote for Epi, and not Dfaraday.

I'm guessing you've never seen a game where there is a mafia member who is/becomes, essentially, a mole or a spy for the civies? If you haven't seen that, then I guess that you wouldn't understand my understanding of the likelihood of the Kelly/Ryan relationship, based on the sorce material. But I know that Dom knows that mafia can be recruited/become civs--mainly because I hosted him the first time he encountered that. So, I'm not discounting that possibility.

Your conclusions are based on your not necssarily true asusmptions. And I'm not just going to follow you. Nor am I going to follow you because you threaten me. I think you're wrong. I'm not going to step in line because, well, you weren't right last time and I dno't think you're right now. Your coming up with a bunch of explanations as to why, although you appear wrong, you actually aren't, doesn't help your case in my book.

I suspect DF. I have for a while. If you dn't agree with my reasons, then don't follow my vote. I don't play for your approval--I play the way I play and I have my own set of strategy. Yeah, I know, it doesn't make sense to a lot of folks, but it's been working for me for a while.

And don't insult my intelligence. I understand how the events of this game have worked. I just don't understand how you're using the word "breakdown"--the syntax is off and isn't making sense in context. Maybe if you try to use different words to describe what you're trying to say, it might be clearer. As of now, it seems as if your obfuscating facts to fit your theory and make everyone other than those who have votes seem suspicious.

LoRab wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:It was a MYLO situation imo. In a MYLO situation why the hell wouldn't anyone do that? It was a way he could win the game.

If you don't understand my "breakdown" of the event then you clearly weren't paying attention during it and are stubbornly pushing a defense of your scumbuddy. Your case on DFaraday is very weak, him voting to tie the votes after mine makes perfect sense imo after what happened with Quin. I don't see what world you find THAT to be scum indicative, but not tying the vote to save a scum member in a MYLO situation. I find your placement of a second vote on DFaraday on that weak of a basis to be odd. You are looking for a basis to justify a false suspicion of the only Epi counterwagon you can get an extra help vote on. Your vote is opportunistic and if it doesn't move onto anybody else (preferably Epi, but hey if you want to vote me go ahead) I will be highly suspect of you. Your vote was also on the bea wagon.

Also, you just suggested in that post that Kelly would convert Ryan to civ. That role would literally kill the game because Ryan would know who his fellow scumbuddies are. We know Ryan caused the Quin death, which needed to be planned with Jo, the vote forcer. They had to have BTSC - therfore Ryan could not have been seperated from the rest. No matter what Kelly could not have converted Ryan.

The two Kelly possibilities left are that:

Kelly and Ryan remains the same -
This would mean that TH knew who Ryan was before she died. Bea died last night, and there does not seem to be any way for a civ/indy to redirect it left in the game so Bea is almost assuredly town. The only other person TH brought suspicion to then is me. I know I'm not Ryan, but you guys don't. If you believe this route, you must believe that I am Ryan, so vote for me and not DFaraday.

Another option I'm thinking of too is if Epi is Ryan, and some part of the role made TH believe that Ryan was converted. I really don't believe this option is likely but I could see it being possible somehow due to Kelly's show behavior. If you find this more likely than me being Ryan, vote for Epignosis, and not DFaraday.

Kelly is converted -
This makes the most sense to me. It explains why TH acted the way he did. It would be balanced gamewise because it makes the mafia a 5-6 player team, which is a good reation in a 27 player game. I find this the most likely because Kelly did get drawn in by him way too easily throught the show, like remember when she broke everything off with Darryl for him. It wouldn't surprise me if she would hop over to mafia as well. If this is your believed case, then you should vote for Epi, and not Dfaraday.

I'm guessing you've never seen a game where there is a mafia member who is/becomes, essentially, a mole or a spy for the civies? If you haven't seen that, then I guess that you wouldn't understand my understanding of the likelihood of the Kelly/Ryan relationship, based on the sorce material. But I know that Dom knows that mafia can be recruited/become civs--mainly because I hosted him the first time he encountered that. So, I'm not discounting that possibility.

Your conclusions are based on your not necssarily true asusmptions. And I'm not just going to follow you. Nor am I going to follow you because you threaten me. I think you're wrong. I'm not going to step in line because, well, you weren't right last time and I dno't think you're right now. Your coming up with a bunch of explanations as to why, although you appear wrong, you actually aren't, doesn't help your case in my book.

I suspect DF. I have for a while. If you dn't agree with my reasons, then don't follow my vote. I don't play for your approval--I play the way I play and I have my own set of strategy. Yeah, I know, it doesn't make sense to a lot of folks, but it's been working for me for a while.

And don't insult my intelligence. I understand how the events of this game have worked. I just don't understand how you're using the word "breakdown"--the syntax is off and isn't making sense in context. Maybe if you try to use different words to describe what you're trying to say, it might be clearer. As of now, it seems as if your obfuscating facts to fit your theory and make everyone other than those who have votes seem suspicious.

The problem with it is that your vote allows for mafia to pile on as well and force us to lose the game.

I'll lay the case on Epi in one sentence that is seriously the most alignment-indicative thing possible in a game in this MYLO environment we have been in lately:

Epi stealth voted for bea on the last minute in order to try to save Espers, who is confirmed mafia.

As for my "factual theories" - They are all theories. But they are based on facts, and logical statements about what I've seen in the game. I have personally never seen a mafia to town converter, so I am skeptical of it. Especially with the mafia only having 5 players, and we know there are no more, excluding a possible Kelly conversion due to the roles presented in the OP:

25 roles/27

Michael and the Scranton Strangler are missing.

I was right about espers. I was right about SVS (also proven above). I was wrong about Matt. I may or may not have been right about TH. I am right about Epi. If we are in MYLO, we cannot stand divided as a town. My vote will not move, but I need yours to in order to stop the mafia from abusing this. Move it onto Epi, or move it onto me, but DFaraday is a wagon that mafia can and will pile onto simply because I have voted there.

And actually my bad on the "break down" thing I forgot what I was referring to when you brought it up last time, but I remembered what I was talking about. You said:

LoRab wrote:Honestly? I'm not sure. He seems arrogant with an aura of eff you to the players, but that's kind of how he plays generally (not a criticism or an insult, it's how he comes off in the thread usually, and I believe intentionally). Which makes him hard to read. There are moments at which he has seemed to be obviously bad, but then others where that totally breaks down. And more moments at which he's been a question mark.

What examples do you have in which that occurs?

None of this is intended to insult your intelligence at all and I apologize if it is coming off that way. I definitely think you're a very smart player which is why I'm getting frustrated that you aren't seeing any legitimacy in my points here, given that this phase could be game for us and I am relatively confident I have the game solved right now.

So you've never seen a role in which a member of the mafia became civ or was a civ spy all along. I've seen that more than once. So, your never having had experience with a certain idea does not mean that the idea can't happen

Can you show where your ideas on SVS were demonstrated as even likely correct? You claim they are proven. Maybe I missed that

You seem to keep claiming proof on your ideas which are, to me, speculation. Not that there is anything wrong with specuatlion, but I disagree with you conclusions.

I haven't, and I just did say it is a possibility, but I do not believe it to be so. Why are you so certain that it is what happened? You have not acknowledged the possibility of Kelly being converted at all either.

All the mafia roles have been revealed and none could control SVS's vote that night (Jo could not have used her role the night before). This proves SVS is mafia beyond a reasonable doubt, because there would be no reason for a civilian SVS to place that vote and blame it on being forced if she wasn't.

Also, please answer the question about Epi right above the OT text in my last post. I want to know why you believe Epi to be civ.

DrumBeats wrote:I haven't, and I just did say it is a possibility, but I do not believe it to be so. Why are you so certain that it is what happened? You have not acknowledged the possibility of Kelly being converted at all either.

All the mafia roles have been revealed and none could control SVS's vote that night (Jo could not have used her role the night before). This proves SVS is mafia beyond a reasonable doubt, because there would be no reason for a civilian SVS to place that vote and blame it on being forced if she wasn't.

Also, please answer the question about Epi right above the OT text in my last post. I want to know why you believe Epi to be civ.

You believe SVS was bad. There are many possibilities that could make that not the case. And you have not listened to those of us that know SVS well and know how she would play a role. I seriously doubt that SVS was bad. And that you say it was "proven" makes me doubt other of your claims. And while you focus on role descriptions, there is evidence that there are items in the game--why couldn't the use of an item allow for SVS to be civ? I think the answer is because you're too stubborn to admit that you're wrong about a player in this game. Which is also why I doubt your word on other players.

And my main hesitation of Kelly not being converted as part of her role is that it would make no sense within her character in the show. Dom seems to have been careful to keep the balance of show with a game that makes sense--to construct a role in which Kelly becomes evil just doesn't ring true to the show and so I doubt that Dom would construct the game as such.

I don't know what to think of Epi. But none of what you ahve posted has made me convinced he is bad, especially when I've seen you be wrong several times in the game.

Quin wrote:I decided to rewatch The Office once this game started and I just now finished it again. I now remember exactly why it's my ultimate favourite show.

Don't remember if I mentioned before or not, but I started watching around, I think, the time the game was in signups or close to starting. Sort of a retry, since the first time I only went as far as the second season, but now I'm going all the way, currently started Season 7. I'd say Seasons 2-4 were great (I especially enjoyed Season 4, which got the most "errs" from critics, it seems - I think Carell KILLED IT during that season), afterwards there were the occasional laughs. I wouldn't say it evades some of the usual sitcom problems, like the sandbox need to create multiple romantic bonds within the cast or most of the characters falling into stereotypy (honestly, I'm about as tired of Dwight's village-alpha-male principles and way-o'-life as I grew tired of Ron Swanson being reduced to "steak! capitalism bad! leave me alone! manly man activities!"), but overall it's an enjoyable binge to burn through the summer.

@ LoRab - You can keep pulling the "You've been wrong so i don't trust you opinion" all you want, but I'm one of three people (and two alive) who have actually been right and lynched a mafia. You tried to vote Bea out instead of Espers, so why should any of us trust your opinion here? I have admitted I was wrong about the several players that have no possibility of being scum (So sorry Matt, Splints, and Spacedaisy).

However there is overwhelming evidence that SVS is mafia, and you thinking that a civilian item distribution role had to be the cause of SVS's forced vote shows that you are also making your theories match your suspicions.

I've been rewatching, and Kelly would gladly become evil for Ryan. (At least at or before Season 5, where I am at right now) Kelly's entire character is basically the clingy girlfriend who will do anything for her obcession with Ryan. Conversion would not be far off. I'm not saying that had to be what happened, I still think it is a likely option.

You specifically said earlier that there were moments where Epi's behavior made you think he was good. Show us them instead of discrediting my opinion because I've been wrong a few times this game. Again, timer and I are the only two alive who have been right, so discrediting me for being wrong on things, which everybody else has been too, is weak. I get that you don't want to vote for your scumbuddy Epi, but if you want me to believe that you two are not scumbuddies, you have to do a better job justifying your civ read of him and your suspicion of DFaraday.

DFaraday wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I went ahead and put a vote on Epi for now to make sure we don't have another SVS/Quin situation. Although now that TH flipped civ, I need to reevaluate the players we have left for connections.

TH flips civ, and you vote Epi to make sure there isn't another early end day? I'm not sure I see the logic. And I'd think if the baddies were doing another Quin situation, they'd already have gone forth with their plans.

That said, I'm finding you increasingly suspish and I'm going to vote for you, for now at least. Since you seem to be up on voting early, you surely understand.

I voted early because DB voted extremely early with zero explanation, which is obviously reminiscent of the SVS debacle. If the vote hadn't been on me, of course I wouldn't have felt the need. You're seriously saying you wouldn't be on edge if someone immediately votes you with no reasoning in a game where someone instantly died as a result of that? Yeah, they probably would have done it already, but I was occupied during the 15 minutes or whatever between DB's vote and the time I saw it, so I reacted as soon as I could. I voted Epi because even though TH has been cleared, Epi still has been distinctly unhelpful lately, and I'm not at all convinced that he's good.

And if you have other reasons for finding me suspicious, please elaborate.

didnt TH vouch for Epi though? From observing the game on the other side, it was clear that those 2 were blatantly defending each other. TH even basically gave up there at the end, which I thought marked he and Epi as obviously bad. BUT HE WASNT. He was just a resigned civ.
On the same side of the coin, Epi's been playing for almost the entire game if I recall as a passenger, like a hitchhiker. Both he and TH campaigned and voted in a block together for a period (if i recall, so did DB and TH).

I think TH and Epi somehow knew the both were civs at some point halfway through this game. If the Scranton Strangler hadn't been lynched, I guess I could see Epi as that role mainly because we know nothing about it and it would be a separate possibility to explain Epi's aloofness. I think this aloofness can also be seen as an Epi who has likewise just thrown in the towel, and while i wish he would pick his sorry ass up and brush himself off to contribute more, I understand his strategy if he is civ: be just helpful enough to appear civ while also murking in a web of doubt so he isn't NK'd. And like TH, maybe he's seen the end of the tunnel and he's just not interested any more. He's done his before as civ.
Could he be bad? Most definitely. But this TH involvement and flip sheds serious doubt on that to me.

Why do you think you haven't been NK'd yet, DB? I'm legitimately curious.
You have the most posts in the game; you have been quite vocal during lynches, in some ways, steering the thread; hell, you helped lynch espers, which is a major plus.
But somehow you're still up and attem. I don't get the Mafia kills this game, I really dont, but something doesn't add up here. It's like if we discovered that the pyramids were actually made of styrofoam this entire time.

I think you DB had systematically been steering this thread when convenient. I can also see DF being a willing accomplice in the matter.

DrumBeats wrote:@ LoRab - You can keep pulling the "You've been wrong so i don't trust you opinion" all you want, but I'm one of three people (and two alive) who have actually been right and lynched a mafia. You tried to vote Bea out instead of Espers, so why should any of us trust your opinion here? I have admitted I was wrong about the several players that have no possibility of being scum (So sorry Matt, Splints, and Spacedaisy).

However there is overwhelming evidence that SVS is mafia, and you thinking that a civilian item distribution role had to be the cause of SVS's forced vote shows that you are also making your theories match your suspicions.

I've been rewatching, and Kelly would gladly become evil for Ryan. (At least at or before Season 5, where I am at right now) Kelly's entire character is basically the clingy girlfriend who will do anything for her obcession with Ryan. Conversion would not be far off. I'm not saying that had to be what happened, I still think it is a likely option.

You specifically said earlier that there were moments where Epi's behavior made you think he was good. Show us them instead of discrediting my opinion because I've been wrong a few times this game. Again, timer and I are the only two alive who have been right, so discrediting me for being wrong on things, which everybody else has been too, is weak. I get that you don't want to vote for your scumbuddy Epi, but if you want me to believe that you two are not scumbuddies, you have to do a better job justifying your civ read of him and your suspicion of DFaraday.

If Kelly were not aligned with Town, I HIGHLY doubt that the host wouldn't make us aware of that fact in the lynch post. I've never seen a game when someone switches factions to not disclose a change of team. It would usually read "Kelly has been lynched! She was aligned with Corporate."
Also, why would she be aligned with Corporate? That doesn't make thematic sense.

Michael, however, I could see being aligned with corporate. He did get into an affair with Jan, after all. He's the only one of the employees that I can see either starting as indie or batting for the other team

DrumBeats wrote:I haven't, and I just did say it is a possibility, but I do not believe it to be so. Why are you so certain that it is what happened? You have not acknowledged the possibility of Kelly being converted at all either.

All the mafia roles have been revealed and none could control SVS's vote that night (Jo could not have used her role the night before). This proves SVS is mafia beyond a reasonable doubt, because there would be no reason for a civilian SVS to place that vote and blame it on being forced if she wasn't.

Also, please answer the question about Epi right above the OT text in my last post. I want to know why you believe Epi to be civ.

DrumBeats wrote:I'm still not 100% sure I was wrong about TH. Look at the role. TH had to find Ryan, a mafia. Until then, somebody had to speak in questions everyday - that hasn't happened in a while. I highly suspect a mafia convert occurring imo because TH's two suspicions afterward were false (one on bea and one on myself).

When the roles on the front page fit your theory, they prove things beyond a reasonable doubt.

When a lynch result disproves your theory, you make up role abilities in order for it to fit your theory.

You should run for office. You'd get my vote, just like you are right now.