The Syndicate

I think this question is at the core of what people try to be as Mafia players. If it isn't clear, this question refers to all games regardless of alignment. What do you try to be in the most general sense, and why do you feel that's the best approach for you?

Supatown! I don't think anyone would be fooled by me suggesting anything else.

If only I was as good at appearing town when I AM town as I am at appearing town when I'm not.

I JUST DONT WANNA DIE

Years ago I had a VERY Supatown game, and I got NKed all the time. Once I got NKed three times on my birthday

So I tried to make my bad game more like my civ game (like many people do) but I could not pull it off. So I intentionally did the opposite, and darkened my civ game a bit, and it works for me. I think I still am obvious when I am civ (it can be frustrating being constantly suspected for trivia as a civ when my bad game is generally so much cleaner than when I am civ; I don't filter when I am civ, I just blurt shit out, lol, yet game after game people think smooth me is good and dopey me is bad) but I did it to myself.

S~V~S wrote:Years ago I had a VERY Supatown game, and I got NKed all the time. Once I got NKed three times on my birthday

So I tried to make my bad game more like my civ game (like many people do) but I could not pull it off. So I intentionally did the opposite, and darkened my civ game a bit, and it works for me. I think I still am obvious when I am civ (it can be frustrating being constantly suspected for trivia as a civ when my bad game is generally so much cleaner than when I am civ; I don't filter when I am civ, I just blurt shit out, lol, yet game after game people think smooth me is good and dopey me is bad) but I did it to myself.

I think the same thing happens to me. When I'm good, I'm just all over the place, and people find it suspicious when I'm wrong or when I change my mind. When I'm bad I tend to be much more careful.

Golden wrote:Supatown! I don't think anyone would be fooled by me suggesting anything else.

If only I was as good at appearing town when I AM town as I am at appearing town when I'm not.

Exactly this.

What has colored a lot of Syndicate modus operandi is that, traditionally, civilians had to be alive to win. The trick was in hunting mafia while at the same time trying not to be too much of a danger (or look bad enough yourself) that you could survive to the end and eliminate mafia.

It was very frustrating to have an exceptional civilian game only to be killed two or three Nights before Endgame. I've been there a few times.

The advent of people from other Mafia communities, in which the norm is winning dead or alive, has altered my perception greatly, both as a host and a player. Removing the fear of automatically losing upon death incentivizes the civilians to give their very best effort, and by extension, give the mafia a challenge in blending in. Or at least it should.

I feel that there's a give-and-take no matter which of these a player prefers to pursue. I think a deliberate effort to appear as overtly civilian as possible at all times is a big benefit when in a town role, because it tends to promote trust and that frees people up to focus squarely on hunting, and it makes them very difficult to lynch. It definitely makes games harder when not in a town role though, because maintaining that standard without the innocence of knowing nothing is not an easy task. I do think that working at that has made me a better player with time, but it also makes the game more stressful. To always bear an obligation to fit that profile can be exhausting.

On the other hand, I think favoring a "hard to read" perspective has the opposite effect. I think it makes it more difficult to influence a game when in a town role, but it provides a better vantage point from which to play in a non-town role. In this culture especially where there are numerous games with multiple baddie teams and a pile of independents, that's not really a concession. It's not that much more likely to draw a civilian role than some other role, whereas elsewhere on the Internet I don't think it is quite the same generally speaking.

I'm with Quin, in preferring to be perceived "something else". This may be extremely lame, but really what is most important to me in a game is trying to be kind, defuse tension when necessary, and just trying to make the game fun - for myself and other players if at all possible. I really don't worry that much about winning/losing... of course winning is fun, and when I'm really into a game or a role, I will sometimes go all supatown or supaevil.

First and foremost in the game to me, however, is that this is a game. The object is to have fun and try to keep any actual out-of-game friendships intact. Everything after that is just gravy to me. I've never been super competitive in RL games either, preferring to make people laugh and just enjoy myself. I dunno, I think maybe I'm just weird. I have seen though, over the years, that playing a "good" game or being a "good" player does not equate winning. Just like in baseball, you can do everything right and play a great game... and still lose. I instead, I choose to focus on what I can actually control - my behavior in a game. My hope is to just play nicely and try not be overly irritated or irritating.


Epi - I totally agree Re: civilians winning dead or alive. It's a much more equitable way to play, imo, and does lead to more teamwork. Why play supatown, when you know you'll just get NKed and not be able to win for your efforts? It leads to a better game, imo, when town can work together without that fear. Of course, something I'd like to see shift is the town attitude in general, but perhaps the only place to start is to alter that win condition. Only then will townies be more willing to work together.

Quin wrote:I JUST DONT WANNA DIE

Elaborating here.

I tend to be incredibly selfish when I played mafia. When I'm civ, I find myself wanting to be at the center of the civ cause, and be directly responsible for a town win. When I'm bad, I get an ego boost out of the knowledge that I managed to fool people until the very end. It rarely works out in the latter because I hate bussing teammates. I don't really see any team spirit in playing this way, though, so I do try my best to instead be a team player who keeps the game fun and interesting, but I still have this almost childlike motivation to be the center of attention and have everything go my way.

Quin wrote:

Quin wrote:I JUST DONT WANNA DIE

Elaborating here.

I tend to be incredibly selfish when I played mafia. When I'm civ, I find myself wanting to be at the center of the civ cause, and be directly responsible for a town win. When I'm bad, I get an ego boost out of the knowledge that I managed to fool people until the very end. It rarely works out in the latter because I hate bussing teammates. I don't really see any team spirit in playing this way, though, so I do try my best to instead be a team player who keeps the game fun and interesting, but I still have this almost childlike motivation to be the center of attention and have everything go my way.

Although this philosophy isn't so bad when I'm an indie, but that never seems to happen to me.


I've never played with the rules that the only winners of a civ win are those that survived until the end. If I played those sorts of games I'd probably not be interested at all.

I like to be talked about a lot, but this brings on a solid case of chronic lynch evasion.

I try to cultivate the same image regardless of alignment. Posting levels, degree of suspicion, even how early I vote are all factors I take into account so that I can't be pinned down as one or the other (although of course games often call for deviations at times).

I'll do whatever the hell I want and if you lynch me for it it's your fault if flip town.

I think I've nailed it as a civ, but I'm still working on the scum version of it.

Quin wrote:I JUST DONT WANNA DIE

Your avatar makes this post perfect.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:01 pm What has colored a lot of Syndicate modus operandi is that, traditionally, civilians had to be alive to win. The trick was in hunting mafia while at the same time trying not to be too much of a danger (or look bad enough yourself) that you could survive to the end and eliminate mafia.

It was very frustrating to have an exceptional civilian game only to be killed two or three Nights before Endgame. I've been there a few times.

The advent of people from other Mafia communities, in which the norm is winning dead or alive, has altered my perception greatly, both as a host and a player. Removing the fear of automatically losing upon death incentivizes the civilians to give their very best effort, and by extension, give the mafia a challenge in blending in. Or at least it should.

How about this idea... after death, a player gets to stick around for two phases as a ghost. The ghost still can claim its win condition if it comes about while they exist.

This would eliminate early deaths from qualifying for a win, but someone who really helped the cause along, only to die near the end, gets their due.

i'm actually tired of being perceived as supertown otherwise she bad, and it's part of why mafia became less fun for me. this happened the first time around before my long hiatus. i am an overachiever and get invested in games (and winning, because i have a pretty competitive personality). but hearing comments like "nah this isn't super town dunia" when you simply can't invest that time and energy into the game gets discouraging (and it's no one's fault but my own).

i feel like i finally understand why try-hard players end up coming back intent on "having fun" rather than playing hard to win.

i need a new identity that fits dunya having fun.

As Town
In setups with a Doctor or similar role, I'm happy to be perceived as supertown. Most likely, the Doctor will protect me, and if they don't, the mafia might not even NK me because they think the Doctor will protect me. Worst case scenario, I die and save a PR from being killed for one night.

If there isn't a Doctor, I usually still want to be perceived as supertown - if I die, the PR doesn't, and once I flip green, town will hopefully follow my reads or at least know they are legitimate.

As Mafia
As Mafia, I usually want to be perceived as the third towniest player in the game. This is enough to create trust in me, but not enough to raise paranoia about me potentially being a hidden wolf that is misleading the town, or create questions about why I haven't already died. If there are PRs I can kill at night to ward off the "why isn't the supertown dead" questions, I will be happy to be perceived as supertown.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:48 pm As Town
In setups with a Doctor or similar role, I'm happy to be perceived as supertown. Most likely, the Doctor will protect me, and if they don't, the mafia might not even NK me because they think the Doctor will protect me. Worst case scenario, I die and save a PR from being killed for one night.

If there isn't a Doctor, I usually still want to be perceived as supertown - if I die, the PR doesn't, and once I flip green, town will hopefully follow my reads or at least know they are legitimate.

As Mafia
As Mafia, I usually want to be perceived as the third towniest player in the game. This is enough to create trust in me, but not enough to raise paranoia about me potentially being a hidden wolf that is misleading the town, or create questions about why I haven't already died. If there are PRs I can kill at night to ward off the "why isn't the supertown dead" questions, I will be happy to be perceived as supertown.

I like the specificity of your description, Alison. It would seem a certain art form to be able to build a post history that is worth "third place" -- but if you can manage it, it'd surely be a nice posture.

From this day forward I will be voting for third most civilian person involved.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:48 pm As Town
In setups with a Doctor or similar role, I'm happy to be perceived as supertown. Most likely, the Doctor will protect me, and if they don't, the mafia might not even NK me because they think the Doctor will protect me. Worst case scenario, I die and save a PR from being killed for one night.

If there isn't a Doctor, I usually still want to be perceived as supertown - if I die, the PR doesn't, and once I flip green, town will hopefully follow my reads or at least know they are legitimate.

As Mafia
As Mafia, I usually want to be perceived as the third towniest player in the game. This is enough to create trust in me, but not enough to raise paranoia about me potentially being a hidden wolf that is misleading the town, or create questions about why I haven't already died. If there are PRs I can kill at night to ward off the "why isn't the supertown dead" questions, I will be happy to be perceived as supertown.

I like the specificity of your description, Alison. It would seem a certain art form to be able to build a post history that is worth "third place" -- but if you can manage it, it'd surely be a nice posture.

Third place, for me, usually means "supertown but with some bad/reads". The rest of your game is supertown, BUT you have one read that you've been tunnelled on since day 1 and won't let go of. The rest of your game is supertown, BUT you pushed X player for a reason that's really nitpicky and inconsistent but that you claim is a smoking gun. When I hear the rest of the town go "X is my top townread, Alison is also pretty town but slightly less because of her weird push on Y", that is when I know I'm in a good spot.

i have so much intel on Alison's play before our first game together. *rubs palms together*

This thread reminded me of a game I played on MafiaUniverse a while back. In that game, I was scum, and managed to look supertown in front of everyone, to the point where a lot of the other townies considered me to be "lock town". It was precisely because of this status that the cop (who was a bit of an unpredictable, chaotic player) investigated me out of paranoia and unveiled a red check followed by a swift lynch on me the next day.

This is the danger of appearing too townie as wolf. Even worse, my partners were not expecting me to flip red, and so were careless about managing their associatives with me, meaning that in theory the scumteam should have unravelled after that red flip. Fortunately, the rest of the town got paranoid and descended into infighting and eventually threw the game.

My answer is "fun to play with".

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:44 am My answer is "fun to play with".

I like that!