Jessica Jones S1 Mafia - Day 5 (ENDGAME)

#301

To be clear, I'm leaning INH as a Timmer teammate rather than Epi and Elo, considering the night post.

#302

Epignosis wrote:Them odds tho.

That post, tho. I'm sorry, but MM's dead hand is pointing DIRECTLY at you.

A civ with a one-shot kill targeted someone, and they know if they target the wrong guy they will die instead. What do they do? They leave a little nugget in the thread immediately before the night ends, just in case. MM wasn't even trying to be subtle about it. You and Wilgy are willfully ignoring the obvious. YOU got indiglo lynched. WILGY tried to get me lynched. The two of you have led every lynch so far, with B.S. reasons, and now you are trying to move the thread past MM pointing directly at you.

But since clearly MM targeted you and clearly he died, I can't vote you. So I will be voting for Wilgy today, barring an insane change in the available information to me.

And no, I won't tell you what i think of surviving the lynch, Wilgy, I'm not going to hand you that information.

#303

timmer wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Them odds tho.
That post, tho. I'm sorry, but MM's dead hand is pointing DIRECTLY at you.

A civ with a one-shot kill targeted someone, and they know if they target the wrong guy they will die instead. What do they do? They leave a little nugget in the thread immediately before the night ends, just in case. MM wasn't even trying to be subtle about it. You and Wilgy are willfully ignoring the obvious. YOU got indiglo lynched. WILGY tried to get me lynched. The two of you have led every lynch so far, with B.S. reasons, and now you are trying to move the thread past MM pointing directly at you.

But since clearly MM targeted you and clearly he died, I can't vote you. So I will be voting for Wilgy today, barring an insane change in the available information to me.

And no, I won't tell you what i think of surviving the lynch, Wilgy, I'm not going to hand you that information.

Ok then Timmer, I'm classifying you as a baddie. We are at a point now where we cannot withold any information we have. You are the player who survived, and we have a confirmed kill surviving baddie role.

It makes sense that MM pointed towards Epi, but MM's role suicided on civilian kills as well. You are clearly ignoring the fact that Epi could be a civ, and you are forcing this idea that he has to be the bad one.

Also, what is up with you classifying my vote as BS? I thought we already discussed this. Stop going in circles.

In regards to not witholding information, I'm Louise Thompson, vanilla civ.

The one exception to this can be answered in the following question. Zebra have you lied in any of your host's posts?

#304

No, and any time the opening post has changed to contradict its earlier state, the rules themselves have changed with it.

#305

Timmer is as good as confirmed scum at this point. Even disregarding MM's hint, what is the chance two players can survive lynches in a classic game? I mean...

I'm not feeling the INH lynch right now. I think for a bad, he is trying too hard to piss people off. Ive cpme to learn bads in this site are seldom obvious like that, and in general try to be likable way more than IHN are rigt now.

Im feeling Epi and Elo as bad though. Maybe Scotty or Sorsha, but mostly the former two. Eloh for the reasons Daisy said, Epi because I can totally see him and timmer bussing each other like that, especially in a game where timmer should be expecting to be confirmed bad at any point. Then again, the fact he was expecting to be confirmed adds a thick layer of wifom to all his interactions with other people.

#306

Epi and Eloh: right now, what do you think of each other in this game?

#307

Voted epi thinking votes were still changeable, then realized they were not.

<facepalm>

Epi it is, then.

#308

Okie dokie. Good try, MM.

So we still know nothing of Epi's alignment except if he is bad he has to be Kilgrave. Whoever that is.

I don't want to jump on timmer just yet, but I would fathom that in no way is he Kilgrave.

Let's look at this logically. Would zebra give a bad timmer the ability to lynch stop AND have a baddie that can't die until his minions are dead? I think that's overkill in favor of he baddies. I think timmer is a civvie role.

For all intents and purposes, in this heist game, we've basically already been given info on all 3 power roles, and none of them are protective or investigative. MM was our vigi, timmer could stop a lynch (maybe just his own) and the baddie godfather is fucking lynch proof until the others die before him. I almost feel Kilgrave is TOO OP in this small game, and therefore (now that I've typed out this logic) that we must assume timmer is civ. This is going to turn into simple deduction at this point.

Timmer, would you feel comfortable saying who your role is?

Elohcin wrote:DF was killed AND MM is dead?

Yes. Do you have anything else to add to discussion, fair Elo?

#309

You are overcomplicating it. There is only one ability: it makes Timmer completely immortal until his teammates are dead.

#310

Ohhhhhh I just blundered in my logic. Damned morning logic before coffee.

Timmer could very well be Kilgrave. Sorry bout that, DDL.

Basically ignore what I just said defending timmer. He's definitely scum.

#311

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:You are overcomplicating it. There is only one ability: it makes Timmer completely immortal until his teammates are dead.

Lol yeah, and if there were 2 lynch stopping players it would be hugely unbalanced anyway. There's still another Pr out there. Maybe doc?

#312

I agree with DDL regarding Timmer. DDL, how is Epi bad? I think Marmot suggested that he wouldn't target INH or I, but did target Epi, thus meaning he's immortal or civ.

#313

Looking back. INH had the hardest reaction to my vote on Timmer.

So much so that it seems too easy for Timmer and INH to be teammates.

#314

DDL, do not say Epi's name underlined. This way your vote won't count.

#315

Baddie team is: Timmer, INH and Elo 2.0

#316

DrWilgy wrote:I agree with DDL regarding Timmer. DDL, how is Epi bad? I think Marmot suggested that he wouldn't target INH or I, but did target Epi, thus meaning he's immortal or civ.

Where did he say he targeted Epi?

#317

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Marmot, who will die tonight? Me, or INH?

DF, what are your thoughts on the Epi voters?
Hopefully Epignosis.

This.

#318

I have been very unenthused with elo 2.0's contributions since her replacement.

She gives ambiguous answers in her one meaty post since replacing in (she only has 4 in total):

Elohcin wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Are you talking about Red vs Blue or a different game?
Do you know nothing about me? Do you really think I know the name of the game I am talking about. If only games had faces...then I could describe what it looked like or pick it out of a line-up for sure.

this is unhelpful
Scotty wrote:
Elo, would a bad Epi normally kill you off if he knew you were on to him day 1?
I remember being on a baddie team with him once where he said he would rather end your time on the game if you had a lot on your plate and mafia was only getting in the way (paraphrasing, but he general idea is there). Do you think this constitutes?
Yeah, if I am rather busy and and cannot really participate anyway. If I signed up b/c he asked me to in order to get the game started and the que rolling. Then he might kill me right off and put me out of my misery. BUT, this is a tiny game, and I love it. I have lots of work this week, but I'm not drowning. He knows I very much enjoy small games. So I am not too sure that he would kill me night 1. A the time, I just thought it was weird that he voted so quickly and without reason. But I think he is just overwhelmed with other things maybe. Like I said, we have a lot going on in RL right now.

So in the same paragraph she admits that he would hypothetically kill her if she were busy, and admits that she is busy, but not too busy, so she doesnt know if he would kill her. She then throws a small shard of shade at him for his quick voting as if she might suspect him, but then uses the excuses that they're both busy. I'm not even sure what the moral to the story is. 'He could be bad, but he maybe could be good I dunno?'
DFaraday wrote:
I also don't see why Epi should necessarily be suspicious for his early, reasonless vote. It's not like he has a track record of doing that as a baddie. I don't feel civ about him per se, but that vote alone isn't enough to ping me.

I think I have come to this conclusion myself as well. I think I know why he may have done it. I cannot reveal it at this time, I don't think. But perhaps later. As for now...I am not looking hard at him. I am having a hard time deciding who I don't trust. Wilgy would be top of my list just b/c of responses and overall tone...but of course I have shared this before. I think I can trust Scotty this game. Timmer is being helpful and I think I can trust him. DF, though he hasn't posted a whole lot seems civ to me. Heck maybe Epi was right and indiglo is bad. Or possibly one of the baddies is a low poster.

@Daisy....have fun with your guest. Anyone we know?

and here she reaffirms that Epi probably isn't bad, and continues to be ambiguous in answering "I think I know why he may have done it" but won't share with the class..

Trusts Wilgy. Trusts me. Trusts timmer. Trusts DF. Trusts Epi so much that she votes off indiglo from the island.

Yo @Elo: what are your current thoughts on Epi, and maybe could you explain/reveal why he made a suspicious early vote on day 1? You said maybe later, and its later.

#319

DrWilgy wrote:Baddie team is: Timmer, INH and Elo 2.0

This is what I was gonna say. But I'm still open to suggestions and can change my mind.

Though I think the option exists still to switch INH, who I have parked my vote on twice in a row now, to Epi as well.

Either way, timmer must not get votes until his teammates are dead.

#320

I forgot Sorsha was even in this game. She's been busy petting Mickey Mouse or something and hasn't posted since Ray 1.

She can't be ruled out of discussion as an MIa timmer teammate.

#321

Just reread Spacedaisy's big meaty sausage of a post.

She might be on to something with INH. I formally would like to nominate her for civ grand wizard. and president of the United States plz

#322

Scotty wrote:Just reread Spacedaisy's big meaty sausage of a post.

She might be on to something with INH. I formally would like to nominate her for civ grand wizard. and president of the United States plz

I too like Daisy's megapost.

Wilgy
Scotty
DDL
Daisy
Epi
Sriracha
INH
Eloh 2.0
Timmer

I'm going to wait for 7 hours and then vote. INH, Eloh, I would like full reads on all the players that are alive. If you are civ, convince me of your reads. I believe we are a day away from Lylo if this is a mislynch.

#323

a2thezebra wrote:Kilgrave cannot be killed by any means until at least one of the other two members of Mafia are dead, so if you target an at-that-point-unkillable Kilgrave, you will die then as well.

Day 3 begins now and ends in 48 hours.

Ok three confirmed baddies as predicted. Potential for 3rd party still exists, so this may be Lylo.

#324

Assuming Epi really was MM's target, I can't see why anyone would still suspect him at this point. I mean the most likely reason he would not have died is because he is civ, given the fact we have already seen timmer survive a lynch and the most likely explanation of that is Kilgrave.

Given this I don't see any reason to keep him on my baddie reads. Elo was on there because I felt like she was defending Epi. Can someone outline their suspicion of her now?

I still see INH as a likely timmer teammate. Three reasons. First he randomized timmer on Day 1. If timmer was likely to survive a lynch and he knew it, best thing to do is distance early. Second, he pushed hard the idea that Wilgy was bad for voting timmer after he himself voted timmer. He went for the low hanging fruit IMO. Third, the question about pardoning still stands out to me, it seems like an unusual way to ask a pretty normal question.

I would revise my reads (this time in rainbow list) as follows:
Epi
Wilgy
Scotty
DDL
Sorsha
Elo
INH
timmer

Scotty and DDL have both made a couple blunders in the last 24 hours that have raised my eyebrow, so I dropped them a bit. I believe they are most likely civ just making a mistake but I don't feel as confident in my civ read of them as I do about Epi and Wilgy right now. Sorsha is orange by POE at the moment. If my civ reads are right, anyway.

#325

Uh, I think I messed up the colors somehow... let me fix that:

Epi
Wilgy
Scotty
DDL
Sorsha
Elo
INH
timmer

Sorry about that lol

#326

And that is why Rainbow list should only be use by professionals like Jay, MP and ... anyone but me apparently.

#327

Daisy, would you mind pointing out what raised your eyebrow at those two? It would assist me in my read of you.

#328

Sure.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Timmer is as good as confirmed scum at this point. Even disregarding MM's hint, what is the chance two players can survive lynches in a classic game? I mean...

I'm not feeling the INH lynch right now. I think for a bad, he is trying too hard to piss people off. Ive cpme to learn bads in this site are seldom obvious like that, and in general try to be likable way more than IHN are rigt now.

Im feeling Epi and Elo as bad though. Maybe Scotty or Sorsha, but mostly the former two. Eloh for the reasons Daisy said, Epi because I can totally see him and timmer bussing each other like that, especially in a game where timmer should be expecting to be confirmed bad at any point. Then again, the fact he was expecting to be confirmed adds a thick layer of wifom to all his interactions with other people.

DDL here accepts that timmer is most likely Kilgrave, but overlooks the fact that if MM targeted Epi as his top suspect with his one shot kill and insterad of it killing Epi it killed MM himself, then we can pretty much assume Epi is civ. He even put a vote on Epi, though he believed at the time votes were changeable. I think it might be either a mistake or else the belief that MM didn't target Epi. Either way, I don't feel like I would call DDL bad, just not as confident in my earlier civ read there.

Scotty wrote:Okie dokie. Good try, MM.

So we still know nothing of Epi's alignment except if he is bad he has to be Kilgrave. Whoever that is.

I don't want to jump on timmer just yet, but I would fathom that in no way is he Kilgrave.

Let's look at this logically. Would zebra give a bad timmer the ability to lynch stop AND have a baddie that can't die until his minions are dead? I think that's overkill in favor of he baddies. I think timmer is a civvie role.

For all intents and purposes, in this heist game, we've basically already been given info on all 3 power roles, and none of them are protective or investigative. MM was our vigi, timmer could stop a lynch (maybe just his own) and the baddie godfather is fucking lynch proof until the others die before him. I almost feel Kilgrave is TOO OP in this small game, and therefore (now that I've typed out this logic) that we must assume timmer is civ. This is going to turn into simple deduction at this point.

Timmer, would you feel comfortable saying who your role is?

Elohcin wrote:DF was killed AND MM is dead?
Yes. Do you have anything else to add to discussion, fair Elo?

Scotty had this quasi-defense of timmer, but then followed it up with:

Scotty wrote:Ohhhhhh I just blundered in my logic. Damned morning logic before coffee.

Timmer could very well be Kilgrave. Sorry bout that, DDL.

Basically ignore what I just said defending timmer. He's definitely scum.

after DDL pointed out the flaw in his logic. I really think this was just mistake, but it's not the first time he has soft defended timmer:

Scotty wrote:
indiglo wrote:@ timmer - Are you surprised you survived the lynch? Do you know why you survived?

The way timmer was posting after the poll was closed and before the post went up struck me as very civ, off hand. But hearing from him about it will be helpful.
See, I saw it as a person that knew they were going to be looked at as civ on the flip, and not necessarily an actual civ. I think he knew he was going to survive, and because the roles are hidden, his anonymity is a strong boon for his game. I know it would be if he were bad, shoving blame at Wilgy.

Granted, I'm feeling less than great about the prospects of Wilgy being civ.

Whether timmer is a civ or mafia aligned, he is definitely a power role. The other option is a possible 3rd party lynch pardon, but that would be a wasteful use on day 1 without info and I'm willing to rule that out completely.

Again, I don't feel sold on his being bad though, just not as confident on his being civ as I am about you and Epi.

#329

Elohcin wrote:I think I have come to this conclusion myself as well. I think I know why he may have done it. I cannot reveal it at this time, I don't think. But perhaps later. As for now...I am not looking hard at him. I am having a hard time deciding who I don't trust. Wilgy would be top of my list just b/c of responses and overall tone...but of course I have shared this before. I think I can trust Scotty this game. Timmer is being helpful and I think I can trust him. DF, though he hasn't posted a whole lot seems civ to me. Heck maybe Epi was right and indiglo is bad. Or possibly one of the baddies is a low poster.

@Daisy....have fun with your guest. Anyone we know?

Elo, I was doing an ISO of you to see if I could figure out what others were seeing that I am missing and I found this gem, could you explain the highlighted bit?

After doing an ISO on Elo I can see why she might be a suspect.

Elohcin wrote:hmm. Sorry Indiglo. Epi seems so authoritative to me for some reason. Then when his reasons matched my thoughts.....well....sorry.

She puts responsibility for her vote for Indi onto Epi, saying he matched her own thoughts but she had never voiced any suspicion of Indi except to say "Heck maybe Epi is right about Indi" one time.

I think I still lean INH as my strongest suspect based on what seems like teammate connection with Elo coming in second for her blendy behavior.

Does the vote end at the time the poll says or is it weird again?

#330

Spacedaisy wrote:Assuming Epi really was MM's target, I can't see why anyone would still suspect him at this point. I mean the most likely reason he would not have died is because he is civ, given the fact we have already seen timmer survive a lynch and the most likely explanation of that is Kilgrave.

Given this I don't see any reason to keep him on my baddie reads. Elo was on there because I felt like she was defending Epi. Can someone outline their suspicion of her now?

I still see INH as a likely timmer teammate. Three reasons. First he randomized timmer on Day 1. If timmer was likely to survive a lynch and he knew it, best thing to do is distance early. Second, he pushed hard the idea that Wilgy was bad for voting timmer after he himself voted timmer. He went for the low hanging fruit IMO. Third, the question about pardoning still stands out to me, it seems like an unusual way to ask a pretty normal question.

I would revise my reads (this time in rainbow list) as follows:
Epi
Wilgy
Scotty
DDL
Sorsha
Elo
INH
timmer

Scotty and DDL have both made a couple blunders in the last 24 hours that have raised my eyebrow, so I dropped them a bit. I believe they are most likely civ just making a mistake but I don't feel as confident in my civ read of them as I do about Epi and Wilgy right now. Sorsha is orange by POE at the moment. If my civ reads are right, anyway.

Yep, I took a little nap and just woke up and realize that I already pointed out to myself that if Epi is bad, he has to be one of the non-lynch proof baddies. But then I was still following my old logic that timmer was a civ lynch stopper. Epi would most surely be dead if he were bad, so yes, he is confirmed civ assuming Mm shot him.

#331

Spacedaisy wrote:
Scotty wrote:Okie dokie. Good try, MM.

So we still know nothing of Epi's alignment except if he is bad he has to be Kilgrave. Whoever that is.

I don't want to jump on timmer just yet, but I would fathom that in no way is he Kilgrave.

Let's look at this logically. Would zebra give a bad timmer the ability to lynch stop AND have a baddie that can't die until his minions are dead? I think that's overkill in favor of he baddies. I think timmer is a civvie role.

For all intents and purposes, in this heist game, we've basically already been given info on all 3 power roles, and none of them are protective or investigative. MM was our vigi, timmer could stop a lynch (maybe just his own) and the baddie godfather is fucking lynch proof until the others die before him. I almost feel Kilgrave is TOO OP in this small game, and therefore (now that I've typed out this logic) that we must assume timmer is civ. This is going to turn into simple deduction at this point.

Timmer, would you feel comfortable saying who your role is?

Elohcin wrote:DF was killed AND MM is dead?
Yes. Do you have anything else to add to discussion, fair Elo?
Scotty had this quasi-defense of timmer, but then followed it up with:

Scotty wrote:Ohhhhhh I just blundered in my logic. Damned morning logic before coffee.

Timmer could very well be Kilgrave. Sorry bout that, DDL.

Basically ignore what I just said defending timmer. He's definitely scum.
after DDL pointed out the flaw in his logic. I really think this was just mistake, but it's not the first time he has soft defended timmer:

well, technically I posted that less than a minute after, but I came to that on my own before reading his response. Sort of like how I'm now remembering I literally just posted that I assumed Epi had to be one of the non-lynch proof baddies which is the complete opposite of what I meant. I just shouldn't mafia in the morning. I need to pee
Scotty wrote:
indiglo wrote:@ timmer - Are you surprised you survived the lynch? Do you know why you survived?

The way timmer was posting after the poll was closed and before the post went up struck me as very civ, off hand. But hearing from him about it will be helpful.
See, I saw it as a person that knew they were going to be looked at as civ on the flip, and not necessarily an actual civ. I think he knew he was going to survive, and because the roles are hidden, his anonymity is a strong boon for his game. I know it would be if he were bad, shoving blame at Wilgy.

Granted, I'm feeling less than great about the prospects of Wilgy being civ.

Whether timmer is a civ or mafia aligned, he is definitely a power role. The other option is a possible 3rd party lynch pardon, but that would be a wasteful use on day 1 without info and I'm willing to rule that out completely.
Again, I don't feel sold on his being bad though, just not as confident on his being civ as I am about you and Epi.
i totally did defend him because I found the prospect of a baddie being lynchproof silly and timmer looked authentically annoyed with how it went down. Oh man I need to pee..stupid car rides

#332

lol, sorry I didn't even look at the timestamps, I just assumed it was because DDL corrected you. Either way, like I said I believe you were most likely just making a mistake. I doubt you are baddie, but these couple things just make me less sure than I am about Wilgy and Epi. That's all. I'm really looking at INH and Elo right now.

#333

3 hours left until I vote for INH or Eloh.

Who should I vote out of these 2?

#334

Well, I've made no secret of my suspicion of INH. He's still my leading suspect so I'm voting INH

#335

I'd go with Eloh. My gut says INH is too scummy to be scum.

And yeah I missed the MM hint. Sorry I'm terrible at catching those.

I hope people don't tunnel vision on these two players though. That may be exactly what mafia wants. I've nwver seen a syndicate game where the baddies were obvious and I doubt this will be the first one.

#336

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I'd go with Eloh. My gut says INH is too scummy to be scum.

And yeah I missed the MM hint. Sorry I'm terrible at catching those.

I hope people don't tunnel vision on these two players though. That may be exactly what mafia wants. I've nwver seen a syndicate game where the baddies were obvious and I doubt this will be the first one.

See that too Scummy to be Scum is what pushes me away from him. Regardless, if INH, Eloh and Timmer are bad, we don't have enough votes to swing the vote elsewhere now that 2 have been placed.

#337

#338

Holla

INh

#339

DrWilgy wrote:INH

Make sure you actually vote in the poll

#340

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Voted epi thinking votes were still changeable, then realized they were not.

<facepalm>

Epi it is, then.

#341

Let's have an excersize,

Mafia team is ___________,
If not, its _____________.

I'll start.
Mafia team is Timmer, INH, Eloh,
If not, its Timmer, Sriracha, Daisy.

#342

Scotty wrote:Holla

INh

If INH flips bad, I'll lynch Scotty for not underlining his name.

#343

Guess I should vote somebody. Insertnamehere.

#344

Epignosis wrote:Guess I should vote somebody. Insertnamehere.

Epi are you the 3rd party?

#345

Also for safety sake insertnamehere

#346

Timmer, Eloh, one of Sorsha/Scotty/Daisy

#347

DrWilgy wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Guess I should vote somebody. Insertnamehere.
Epi are you the 3rd party?

You're fishing to see if you should bother killing me or not.

#348

Epignosis wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Guess I should vote somebody. Insertnamehere.
Epi are you the 3rd party?
You're fishing to see if you should bother killing me or not.

Is this a bad thing?

#349

Epi, I take it from this that you suspect Wilgy?

#350

DrWilgy wrote:
Scotty wrote:Holla

INh
If INH flips bad, I'll lynch Scotty for not underlining his name.

Oh shit. Sorry

INH

The Bad