The Syndicate

Hello, Syndicateers. You may have noticed yesterday that the recently completed GoC 2016 game (hosted by JaggedJimmyJay and Spacedaisy) briefly was moved here to the Museum, but then has since vanished. You may also have noticed that your post count went down, especially if you were a high poster in the GoC 2016 game.



Unfortunately, the main game thread is permanently gone. The Beach and Hatch threads are still in existence.

For those of you that are wondering how this could possibly have happened, here's what went down (an excerpt from a post I made informing the mods and admins yesterday):
Unfortunately, despite thorough assistance from the entire technical team, we were unable to find a usable solution to recovering the game's content, because once a topic is deleted, it is removed completely from the site's database. The flipside is that in researching this, we have uncovered a couple of preventive measures to introduce into the site, so we will be working on adding those mods and features in the near future.

I apologize profusely to all of you, especially the hosts and players who participated in this game, because this is solely my fault and a completely unprecedented disaster. Needless to say, this should never happen again, but I'm still beyond frustrated that this even occurred in the first place.

After realizing that the topic was not going to be recovered, an idea was spawned among the mod/admin discussion to create this thread to commemorate the game and for all of you players to feel free to discuss what you remember about the game (an "in memoriam" thread).

Thankfully, JaggedJimmyJay was also able to provide links to the role list and his host spreadsheet, so at least that information has been retained, as follows:
This will also serve as the game's link in the Hall of Fame. Please feel free to comment in this thread however you wish. Again, I'm really sorry for all of this; even though I realize the game is complete and this could have been much worse, it still upsets me that I lost all this archived game information.

This is fine. This way nobody gets to research my sub par baddie game

I posted this in the mod thread but I'll post it again here. For me the highlights of the game were:

~ The team effort to get Mac (including llama)
~ Saving bea at the beach
~ bea not suspecting people til we made her
~ The Meagle/DH kill
~ Wilgy's red peak at Golden, helping to confirm Golden as civ (for me)
~ S~V~S's llama catch
~ Farnsworth's cases on BR and Coltrane
~ the Day 4 Lynch where people changed to Scotty
~ The Prisoner's Farnsworth kill
~ sprityo's protection of S~V~S and Floyd kill
~ My siggy bet with S~V~S
~ Lorab breaking open the cylon thing
~ LC's Quin catch
~ Sorsha's bea kill
~ the cylons were all good
~ the end where nobody lied

RIP GOC! You was fun!

Juliets, we should team up and post an analysis of Quins subpar baddie game for future reference.

Golden wrote:Juliets, we should team up and post an analysis of Quins subpar baddie game for future reference.

Hahaha the only thing I remember about Quin's baddie game was I ISO'd him and couldn't identify one thing that was suspicious! I'd say he had a pretty damn good baddie game frankly. If it hadn't been for LC I don't know when we would have gotten him - or if.

RIP GO16, I'll always fondly remember the...

...oh wait, I didn't play.

Mneh.

( )

I remember Llamas sockpuppet giving him the cold shoulder. And Sprit protecting me

Thanks Sprit.

Bea fooled me

Juliets convinced me and played a perfect Juliets game

The second day, in the beach thread (although this should still exist) is memorable for me. The vote split between bea and soneji really felt like a seminal moment in the game, and it certainly drove my perception of what was going on for a while.

Also, the bringing back of the 'cylon' mechanic was pretty cool. It was hard to know whether cylons might be bad or not.

Ricochet wrote:RIP GO16, I'll always fondly remember the...

...oh wait, I didn't play.

Mneh.

( )

It's okay, you were playing in spirit. You were bad though, so tough luck.

bea had me snowed. Actually, it was mostly because Llama made Cheerleader's empty vote go to Soneji, instead of making it look like Cheerleader tried to lynch bea in a seemingly tied lynch. That made bea look really Civ to me.

And as long as my WIN doesn't disappear, I can handle the game being gone. That could be the most Black Rock Content we'll see this year though. Who knows?

I got MacDougall. Got killed Night 1. Won. That's all you need to know.

I spent Day 1 arguing against the case on Macdougall, but redeemed myself on Day 3 by chasing a llama and accidentally poisoning the Professor with a little help from Made. Then I was deactivated by Russians. My entry post was prescient.

Playing on a sock accout while mostly everyone else was not was a lot of fun on Day 1. I actively tried to obscure my identity and approached the day differently (more reserved) than I normally would. But then we split up on Day 2 and I felt the need to generate as much content as I could in the Beach thread and I reverted to all my old habits.

For anyone interested, I kept a spreadsheet of votes and role descriptions up to Night 9 (a day before my death). Here is that.

Spreadsheet

I could probably fill it out with the few later days I'm missing, if anyone's interested in helping out with that. Just post here with who you voted for and things like that.

What was the prevailing theory in the thread about Farmsworth's death? I was caught up in Phenon by that time and didn't follow too closely for a little bit. I was surprised to find out I killed him in the post-game.

Marmot wrote:For anyone interested, I kept a spreadsheet of votes and role descriptions up to Night 9 (a day before my death). Here is that.

Spreadsheet

I could probably fill it out with the few later days I'm missing, if anyone's interested in helping out with that. Just post here with who you voted for and things like that.

Oh, and a VERY interesting stat I noticed from this game.

Each member of mafia only received a vote the day that they were lynched. Never did they receive a vote before that day, and Professor Farnsworth never received a vote at all in the game. This is only including day end votes of course, but still very interesting.

Marmot wrote:

Marmot wrote:For anyone interested, I kept a spreadsheet of votes and role descriptions up to Night 9 (a day before my death). Here is that.

Spreadsheet

I could probably fill it out with the few later days I'm missing, if anyone's interested in helping out with that. Just post here with who you voted for and things like that.

Oh, and a VERY interesting stat I noticed from this game.

Each member of mafia only received a vote the day that they were lynched. Never did they receive a vote before that day, and Professor Farnsworth never received a vote at all in the game. This is only including day end votes of course, but still very interesting.

Not if you count the Beach. Bea was 1 vote away from lynchhood that day.

There are pieces of the game currently sort of available by searching through cached search engine stuff, but I don't see any way to bring back the game in its entirety. Bummer!

Ooh that's right! I forgot she was mafia.

Ok, there's an update I need to add.

Imagine how this game would have gone differently if one more vote had gone to bea that day, that might have taken a couple of days out of the tail.

S~V~S wrote:I remember Llamas sockpuppet giving him the cold shoulder. And Sprit protecting me

Thanks Sprit.

Bea fooled me

Juliets convinced me and played a perfect Juliets game

This is better than a banner tbh.

You fooled me vicariously. I always listen to SVS when she says she trusts you. Now I know she's fallible.

Golden wrote:Imagine how this game would have gone differently if one more vote had gone to bea that day, that might have taken a couple of days out of the tail.

I'd have been the only baddie left and I'd have picked my shit up, probably.

[quote="Long Con"]bea had me snowed. Actually, it was mostly because Llama made Cheerleader's empty vote go to Soneji, instead of making it look like Cheerleader tried to lynch bea in a seemingly tied lynch. That made bea look really Civ to me.

And as long as my WIN doesn't disappear, I can handle the game being gone. That could be the most Black Rock Content we'll see this year though. Who knows?[/quote]

Like SVS - better than a banner tbh.

also - we may have been the bussing baddie team, but at least while we were bussing we tried to set up the next guy as best we could.

his supsish of me was always supposed to create distance then he was gonna walk it back. I can't quite remember when he got backed into a corner with it, but he did.

I know we talked alot about it BTS - and he said - just defend against me like you would anyone. So I did. At the time, I honestly thought no one was going to buy my lame defense of busy and sick. (though they were all legit true) Then SVS came out with her "shitty case" and I was all. Fuck. Llama, there is no way I can not vote for you right now. Like I wanted to find a way that I could vote somewhere else, but I KNEW if I did, it would make SVS smell my baddie stink that much quicker. So - while we all thought that I was the one who should have been bussed. (and basically once mac was lynched day 1 I was useless power wise.) Somehow it ended up being llama. Much like how Golden wonders what would have happened if I had been lynched on the Beach, I wonder how differently this game would have went down if llama lived instead of me.


Llama dear. You know I adore you. SVS is not wrong. Next time, flirt back with your damn sock!!!


Black Rock was amazing this game. Even with all her personal stuffs. Sorsha might have done me a favor killing me when she did. I was trying at that point - to take out civs and pray for the indy vote. Don't fault Sorsha at all for not falling for my bait. All the women who won played amazing games. I'm truly honored to just have been last baddie standing. I was never lying when I said Juliets deserves this win regardless of allignment.

As for Quinn, I thought he played a GREAT game. I know I'm half biased. But shit. That boy was amazing. And really only got lynched cuz LC got lucky with the block. IF I had killed that night, again, things could have gone differently.

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Imagine how this game would have gone differently if one more vote had gone to bea that day, that might have taken a couple of days out of the tail.

I'd have been the only baddie left and I'd have picked my shit up, probably.

He says in a feeble attempt to oversell his own abilities

LC told me in another game he caught me because of my timmer vote on Day 1, and I see how he could have quite easily.

I've traditionally started every game with no assumptions, but I may have to change that. From now on, Quin is scum until confirmed town.

Golden wrote:You fooled me vicariously. I always listen to SVS when she says she trusts you. Now I know she's fallible.

We are all fallible Golden. You should have known better because of parks and rec.


SVS and I are more of a "married couple" in mafia than I am with my own hubby. I at least ask for 3 days before I begin to judge SVS. Cuz I need the time to see her work.

But yet everyone always auto trusts her read on me. That played against the civs this time. But it's civ bitten me in the ass before too. More than once.

I'll remember wondering why none of the mafia even claimed a role to try to delay their lynches. Even a blatant lie can scare a civilian out of a vote for a day.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll remember wondering why none of the mafia even claimed a role to try to delay their lynches. Even a blatant lie can scare a civilian out of a vote for a day.

I couldn't claim Desmond because of what that would entail as far as resurrections. Especially after Sorsha brought up resurrections, if I'd claimed people would treat me like a cyclon and have probably lynched me both for that or as a 'if all else fails' sort of lynch.

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll remember wondering why none of the mafia even claimed a role to try to delay their lynches. Even a blatant lie can scare a civilian out of a vote for a day.

I couldn't claim Desmond because of what that would entail as far as resurrections. Especially after Sorsha brought up resurrections, if I'd claimed people would treat me like a cyclon and have probably lynched me both for that or as a 'if all else fails' sort of lynch.

Most roles weren't exact copies of their original inspirations.

It's all about buying one more day. It can make all the difference. Oh well though.

I claimed everything I was supposed to when the topic came up.

I will say this - IDK if the other members of my mafia team felt like this, but for *me* having a role to claim was a bit weird and a mechanic I had never seen before, so I wasn't sure how best to utilize it. Now that I've had a runaround with it, I might do better in the future.

For prosperity sake I will share a few of my favorite memories from bts.

There was a point where I was last baddie standing - where mac came back in and said "Remember back in the beginning when I said, Bea is gonna play the best baddie game ever? Look at me be right!" and tbh - I missed the bts part where he said that, but the fact that it ended up being true is special.

There was a point where we were worried about cylon recruits and someone said "bea's got too many bts's to juggle." and Quinn said "I used to think people lied about being that busy, then I met Bea. Now I just assume that if she's not here, she's working."

I loved all the personal chatty times with Quinn and Llama and Mac and DF. They were my lifeboat for like a month. I can't express how much I wanted to win *for* them and their continued dedication to the cause as well as just general fuckoffery.

Not gonna lie, the win would have been AWESOME. But to date. Last baddie standing is the BEST I've ever done as a baddie that didn't have Lorab or BDH on my team. I'm really proud of my play here. Even if lots of it was civs being blind. My team had hella good baddie players on it. But I was the last one. I fooled LC. I fooled SVS. I fooled JC. I fooled Golden (he claims by proxy but he should have known better. The game that got me here was the last time I fooled him.) I didn't fool Lorab. That's why I killed her. Well, that and I was hoping her death would focus people more toward cylons.

oh - as far as "so and so would never do that as a baddie." - let me say it here and loud and proud.
IF I flip mafia I will do what I need to do to keep my advantage. There is no line I won't cross. As far as I can remember, I WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THE SIG BETS.
And yes, if I'm bad and you belive for one second that I would never take a bet I can't loose, just that once I will fall on that granade. I will still use this when I'm civ.

IF you think I won't use the "if you lie to me now, I can never trust you again" and I'm mafia, I'm so going to stake my mafia rep on it. I will still use this when I am civ.

I WILL ALWAYS NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DEDICATE TO ANY GAME I PLAY. I WILL FOREVER BE AN EASY LYNCH AS AN UNINVOLVED CIV AND A EASY SLIDE AS A BADDIE.

Lots of peeps would have -pre this game - say that I wouldn't pull the trigger on SVS and that's a HARD trigger for me to pull. But in the end, the TEAM'S needs outweigh my personal needs. So I pulled the fucking trigger.

I was also waiting to use that exact thing against BR. Cuz that day will come.

In the end, the *very* thing that kept me last baddie hidden was the thing that - for my baddie team, I felt the most umbrage against.

When quinn got lynched it was a) LC luck - but when he first came under the firing line it was cuz "I trust everone else's meta and you are the only one left." That's the danger of POE. It worked for quinn - but you lynched ninjacoltraine twice both times a civ because of it. You lynched wigly twice - both times civ because of it.

I prolly could have skated - how many more cycles had sorsha not nked me? because of it?

Meta is kinda bollucks. If I'm a baddie - even if I know I can only do it once - Imma still do it that one time. Just cuz I can.

case in point - everyone was looking at me again but "oh that emotional appeal."

I HONESTLY hate the fact that no one believes me ever until I get super drunk and lose my shit.

I keep trying to play this game as least stressful as I can. And when I'm all zen - regardless of alignment - no one believes me till I have a damn temper tantrum like a 3 year old.

Then all of a sudden I'm "genuine" and "honest" and "oh that emo appeal."

I legit hate my temper tantrums. I wish I had more credibility without them.

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll remember wondering why none of the mafia even claimed a role to try to delay their lynches. Even a blatant lie can scare a civilian out of a vote for a day.

I couldn't claim Desmond because of what that would entail as far as resurrections. Especially after Sorsha brought up resurrections, if I'd claimed people would treat me like a cyclon and have probably lynched me both for that or as a 'if all else fails' sort of lynch.

You were scared to claim Desmond but we set you up to semi confirm your role. You had the ability to trigger the Hatch mechanic. No the role wasn't the same as in the original game, but we had to tweak a bunch of roles for balance. Heck, we even made up a couple roles completely! I was adamant about that being your false claim because you could have claimed it, said I'll prove it and then triggered the hatch. Sorry that you felt like you got the shaft with your false role claim.

bea wrote:oh - as far as "so and so would never do that as a baddie." - let me say it here and loud and proud.
IF I flip mafia I will do what I need to do to keep my advantage. There is no line I won't cross. As far as I can remember, I WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THE SIG BETS.
And yes, if I'm bad and you belive for one second that I would never take a bet I can't loose, just that once I will fall on that granade. I will still use this when I'm civ.

IF you think I won't use the "if you lie to me now, I can never trust you again" and I'm mafia, I'm so going to stake my mafia rep on it. I will still use this when I am civ.

I WILL ALWAYS NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DEDICATE TO ANY GAME I PLAY. I WILL FOREVER BE AN EASY LYNCH AS AN UNINVOLVED CIV AND A EASY SLIDE AS A BADDIE.

Lots of peeps would have -pre this game - say that I wouldn't pull the trigger on SVS and that's a HARD trigger for me to pull. But in the end, the TEAM'S needs outweigh my personal needs. So I pulled the fucking trigger.

I was also waiting to use that exact thing against BR. Cuz that day will come.

In the end, the *very* thing that kept me last baddie hidden was the thing that - for my baddie team, I felt the most umbrage against.

When quinn got lynched it was a) LC luck - but when he first came under the firing line it was cuz "I trust everone else's meta and you are the only one left." That's the danger of POE. It worked for quinn - but you lynched ninjacoltraine twice both times a civ because of it. You lynched wigly twice - both times civ because of it.

I prolly could have skated - how many more cycles had sorsha not nked me? because of it?

Meta is kinda bollucks. If I'm a baddie - even if I know I can only do it once - Imma still do it that one time. Just cuz I can.

To be fair, I didn't want to lynch you because meta. I wanted to lynch you because you looked the worst based on my Professor Farnsworth interaction analyses. True story.

yea - I know newt - and you saw how quick I wanted you to live. :cheers:

Marmot wrote:

bea wrote:oh - as far as "so and so would never do that as a baddie." - let me say it here and loud and proud.
IF I flip mafia I will do what I need to do to keep my advantage. There is no line I won't cross. As far as I can remember, I WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THE SIG BETS.
And yes, if I'm bad and you belive for one second that I would never take a bet I can't loose, just that once I will fall on that granade. I will still use this when I'm civ.

IF you think I won't use the "if you lie to me now, I can never trust you again" and I'm mafia, I'm so going to stake my mafia rep on it. I will still use this when I am civ.

I WILL ALWAYS NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DEDICATE TO ANY GAME I PLAY. I WILL FOREVER BE AN EASY LYNCH AS AN UNINVOLVED CIV AND A EASY SLIDE AS A BADDIE.

Lots of peeps would have -pre this game - say that I wouldn't pull the trigger on SVS and that's a HARD trigger for me to pull. But in the end, the TEAM'S needs outweigh my personal needs. So I pulled the fucking trigger.

I was also waiting to use that exact thing against BR. Cuz that day will come.

In the end, the *very* thing that kept me last baddie hidden was the thing that - for my baddie team, I felt the most umbrage against.

When quinn got lynched it was a) LC luck - but when he first came under the firing line it was cuz "I trust everone else's meta and you are the only one left." That's the danger of POE. It worked for quinn - but you lynched ninjacoltraine twice both times a civ because of it. You lynched wigly twice - both times civ because of it.

I prolly could have skated - how many more cycles had sorsha not nked me? because of it?

Meta is kinda bollucks. If I'm a baddie - even if I know I can only do it once - Imma still do it that one time. Just cuz I can.

To be fair, I didn't want to lynch you because meta. I wanted to lynch you because you looked the worst based on my Professor Farnsworth interaction analyses. True story.

tru story - i hate when peeps have shit on me as a baddie that i know i can't defend against.

tbh - after mac was lynced as a baddie team we were always on the defensive. As hard as we tried we could never get back on the offensive. And that's the real lesson in the GOC game here. We were a great baddie team who should have done far better than we did. But we could never just get over our own paranoia enough to be offensive rather than defensive.

After Mac was lynched I was the worst proponent of that. Cuz then I was basically a nilla baddie with maybe a kill if we snuck it in while peeps thought I was good.

I was totally wrong about Timer and Boomslang. Had no real suspicions since then. I totality trusted Quinn up to his death. Even sent him a message telling him Sorsha was bad night 2. I asked SVS to check Sorsha after that. I hinted at that message and who it came from. She ignored me , leading me to suspect her.Otherwise I played this game with a lot of difficulty relying on juilets.

bea wrote:tbh - after mac was lynced as a baddie team we were always on the defensive. As hard as we tried we could never get back on the offensive. And that's the real lesson in the GOC game here. We were a great baddie team who should have done far better than we did. But we could never just get over our own paranoia enough to be offensive rather than defensive.

After Mac was lynched I was the worst proponent of that. Cuz then I was basically a nilla baddie with maybe a kill if we snuck it in while peeps thought I was good.

You played me like a harp.

Black Rock wrote:

bea wrote:tbh - after mac was lynced as a baddie team we were always on the defensive. As hard as we tried we could never get back on the offensive. And that's the real lesson in the GOC game here. We were a great baddie team who should have done far better than we did. But we could never just get over our own paranoia enough to be offensive rather than defensive.

After Mac was lynched I was the worst proponent of that. Cuz then I was basically a nilla baddie with maybe a kill if we snuck it in while peeps thought I was good.

You played me like a harp.

I'm positive this was the ONE TIME.

But still gonna run with it. Still better than a banner.

I adore you birhday sister. I'm happy you ladies won. You all earned it.

bea wrote:As for Quinn, I thought he played a GREAT game. I know I'm half biased. But shit. That boy was amazing. And really only got lynched cuz LC got lucky with the block. IF I had killed that night, again, things could have gone differently.

It wasn't entirely luck. It was PoE and instinct. Until Quin, I had focused on proving to myself thast Golden, S~V~S, and MM were good.

Quin wrote:LC told me in another game he caught me because of my timmer vote on Day 1, and I see how he could have quite easily.

More accurately, when you referred to the vote as a "pressure vote". That was just what I had said as a baddie in Phenon to excuse my baddie vote. That was after my blocking of you, which was the main reason I was seeking your lynch.

Bea, actually the whole llama Lynch was aimed at you. That was why I made a point of poking you specifically with the shitty case stick. I needed to know you were civ. You waffled enough to give me cause, but you fell in line quickly enough that I figured it was vapors on my part.

I am just glad I was gone when you died. Had I been alive I would have tunnelled Juliets hard.

You played an awesome game. And fwiw I personally hate nothing more than faux suspicion from teammates. The goal of a baddie, at least for me, is to look like a civvie and faux suspish compromises that for me. It works for some people, but not for me, although I have benefited from it, like in WWE. And I know that isn't your cup of tea either, and you played off of it really well.

Black Rock wrote:I was totally wrong about Timer and Boomslang. Had no real suspicions since then. I totality trusted Quinn up to his death. Even sent him a message telling him Sorsha was bad night 2. I asked SVS to check Sorsha after that. I hinted at that message and who it came from. She ignored me , leading me to suspect her.Otherwise I played this game with a lot of difficulty relying on juilets.

I didn't get the message.

bea wrote:oh - as far as "so and so would never do that as a baddie." - let me say it here and loud and proud.
IF I flip mafia I will do what I need to do to keep my advantage. There is no line I won't cross. As far as I can remember, I WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THE SIG BETS.
And yes, if I'm bad and you belive for one second that I would never take a bet I can't loose, just that once I will fall on that granade. I will still use this when I'm civ.

IF you think I won't use the "if you lie to me now, I can never trust you again" and I'm mafia, I'm so going to stake my mafia rep on it. I will still use this when I am civ.

I WILL ALWAYS NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DEDICATE TO ANY GAME I PLAY. I WILL FOREVER BE AN EASY LYNCH AS AN UNINVOLVED CIV AND A EASY SLIDE AS A BADDIE.

Lots of peeps would have -pre this game - say that I wouldn't pull the trigger on SVS and that's a HARD trigger for me to pull. But in the end, the TEAM'S needs outweigh my personal needs. So I pulled the fucking trigger.

I was also waiting to use that exact thing against BR. Cuz that day will come.

In the end, the *very* thing that kept me last baddie hidden was the thing that - for my baddie team, I felt the most umbrage against.

When quinn got lynched it was a) LC luck - but when he first came under the firing line it was cuz "I trust everone else's meta and you are the only one left." That's the danger of POE. It worked for quinn - but you lynched ninjacoltraine twice both times a civ because of it. You lynched wigly twice - both times civ because of it.

I prolly could have skated - how many more cycles had sorsha not nked me? because of it?

Meta is kinda bollucks. If I'm a baddie - even if I know I can only do it once - Imma still do it that one time. Just cuz I can.

Actually, in the Wilgy and Coltrane lynches the second time around was due to them being cylons for me, not POE. POE allowed me to not suspect S~V~S, Golden, LC, and BR so I feel it worked for me. Also, I will know next time not to excuse bea if I have to push her to name suspicions and I won't excuse her on emotional appeals. And as for meta, it's what we used to get Mac and I feel it could have been helpful for ninja if I'd ever been able to find games where she was good or bad. I even went back to Rev and looked at Golden in King Arthur to make sure I was remembering his performance correctly.

I also learned this game to just be me and to stop playing like other people play, or want me to play.

I do not like naming my suspects in the thread. I like watching them, watching other people relate to them, and then using that to force an issue. That was what I did this game, I suspected Llama somewhat before the Cheerleader thing. But only enough to watch him, not to name him. Naming him would have put him on the defensive and would have changed his game play.

So from now on, I will just get lynched, I guess, than be forced to name suspects as some sort of civ litmus test. We all can't play the same game as JJJ and Sloonei, nor should we want to. If we all did things the same it would be boring. I just got mis lynched in another game for insufficient suspect naming, and really, that is just my process. Watching and poking people with sticks to see what happens.

I just had a big old post ready to go, and when I clicked "post" my wi-fi hiccuped. Now it's gone.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I just had a big old post ready to go, and when I clicked "post" my wi-fi hiccuped. Now it's gone.

No, check your History! It may still be there!

Having the viewed the game and the mafia BTSC discussion from a neutral perspective, these are my thoughts on the POE debate:

~ The method itself was not an issue to criticize, as it clearly worked well for the civilians. It has actually been very positive in a number of recent games. *directs smug expression upon the critics*

~ I can understand on some level, however, why it peeved the mafia team. The method itself was fine, but the means by which some of the civilians cleared each other (spousal night kill assumptions, fierce/personal emotional appeals, signature bets, etc) aren't exactly the sort of purely game-relevant indicators that a hypothetically neutral Mafia platform would be built upon -- it'd work based upon the content of posts relative solely to the game at hand and nothing but the game at hand. The problem with this is self-evident: it's a fantasy world. I have never seen a Mafia community anywhere, in person or on a message board, that fits within that idealistic frame. Instead, we all play with people we know, and the effects of that are going to be seen in games. That's just how it is, and I don't think that's something to frown upon. We play as friends, and sometimes that opens doors to unique angles for making reads.

~ There are two obvious negatives that I can identify though for civilians operating this way (crediting and identifying one another based upon unique and marginally relevant appeals or tells):
~~~ 1.) Eventually, someone is going to take advantage of this mindset as a non-civilian and make a number of people look silly.
~~~ 2.) When civilians come to rely too much upon these sorts of tells to progress their POE perspectives, they make a significant sacrifice to their own ability to play the game as anything but civilians. If a player struggles to attain civilian trust without special appeals or tells of this nature, it exposes them when they don't have the proper framework in their roles or mindsets (i.e. when they're mafia-aligned) to meet that criteria. They becomes victims of their own game -- isolated by the POE of other civilians who don't see the tells they're looking for. The only way around this, other than revamping the civilian approach, is to make concessions as a baddie which might not feel morally permissible (and in my opinion, fierce emotional appeals as a baddie are sometimes outright unsportsmanlike). A player is left deciding whether to compromise their values or to compromise their chances to win the game.