The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 pmLong Con had his own team kill him once.

I don't need to describe a theory that "works for me."

You need to describe it if you want to work together with people. If you don't want that that's your choice. But you leave a lot to be desired for me to understand where you are coming from.

---

I will ask everyone: What do you all think about what you gather Epi's theory is?

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:41 pm I believe LC thought the game was LMS, skimmed his role, it wasn't written in a town way, and ran with the LMS plan until he was corrected. It's good enough for a Day 1 this early on.

I'm not sure I understand you correctly here - So do you think LC was under the impression of being an LMS role or just a straight up anti-town role? Or that he didn't know for sure but he knew he wasn't town?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:43 pm

I'm sure Epi has an excellent reason for this inquiry.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 pmLong Con had his own team kill him once.

I don't need to describe a theory that "works for me."

You need to describe it if you want to work together with people. If you don't want that that's your choice. But you leave a lot to be desired for me to understand where you are coming from.

---

I will ask everyone: What do you all think about what you gather Epi's theory is?

If I want to work together with people? I thought this was LMS.

Oh wait. No I didn't. Heh.

Look, I get people lynched for less than this. I make a good point, and people come in and go, "Epi makes a great point" and they vote. It's how it goes. I don't have to describe anything in this scenario, because I think people are just hoping to survive for a while.

Look! You already have two votes. More than anybody else.

If you must have something from me, here's this: I don't buy LC publicly affirming his deal with you while privately offering it to me (for a second time, this time saying that no one has to know about it). I flat out told him my opinion of him depended on your alignment. I am not making deals with devils who have too many hooves in the cookie jar. LC tried to get me in a deal with not voting for him, and that's fine if he believes this is a last man standing game, which I hope it is not, because those are not fucking Mafia games, and they should stop calling them Mafia, but my role gives me the slim hope that there are mafia to find, and I'm not interested in making vague deals with people, especially if those people make them with everybody and their brother and then everybody again behind the brother's back.

Even *EPIGNOSIS* got a deal?!?!?

@Dys, I think you understand me fine

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:53 pm Even *EPIGNOSIS* got a deal?!?!?

Twice. LC is like a bad car salesman.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:53 pm Even *EPIGNOSIS* got a deal?!?!?

No one has offered me a deal.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:50 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 pmLong Con had his own team kill him once.

I don't need to describe a theory that "works for me."

You need to describe it if you want to work together with people. If you don't want that that's your choice. But you leave a lot to be desired for me to understand where you are coming from.

---

I will ask everyone: What do you all think about what you gather Epi's theory is?

If I want to work together with people? I thought this was LMS.

Oh wait. No I didn't. Heh.

Look, I get people lynched for less than this. I make a good point, and people come in and go, "Epi makes a great point" and they vote. It's how it goes. I don't have to describe anything in this scenario, because I think people are just hoping to survive for a while.

Look! You already have two votes. More than anybody else.

If you must have something from me, here's this: I don't buy LC publicly affirming his deal with you while privately offering it to me (for a second time, this time saying that no one has to know about it). I flat out told him my opinion of him depended on your alignment. I am not making deals with devils who have too many hooves in the cookie jar. LC tried to get me in a deal with not voting for him, and that's fine if he believes this is a last man standing game, which I hope it is not, because those are not fucking Mafia games, and they should stop calling them Mafia, but my role gives me the slim hope that there are mafia to find, and I'm not interested in making vague deals with people, especially if those people make them with everybody and their brother and then everybody again behind the brother's back.

Jeez, you're impossible. I said that the deals were not valid because it's not LMS, and you spout some ominous shit at me. So I PM you and say "Hey fine, if you're upset, then we can have a deal. I didn't mean anything by it." Then you come in here and just throw it in my face like I'm trying to fucking do some double-dealing shit.

I don't know what alignment Dyslexicon is, obviously I can't win by voting for her though. If she's Civ, I helped lynch a Civ. If she's bad, then Epi leads the mislynch on LC. Great setup already.

You think I'm the one with a hoof in the cookie jar? You agreed to the original deal despite knowing it isn't Last Man Standing... and now you come in here and preach and huff about how you're "not interested in making vague deals with people".

@Epi - I'm not concerned about getting voted, I'm concerned about what processes are behind that. So thanks for sharing that. Obviously I don't know what goes on behind the scenes and who PMs who, that is all new to me in a game. So you're saying LC PMed you with a LMS-type deal after he offered one to me? Cause to me he said that he now can see that he is town and that he missed it first time around. So he denied the LMS thing altogether to me.

What I'm wondering is what this all really has to do with me? I didn't choose to get a PM from LC, I responded how I saw fit. He first wanted to make a deal. Then later sent a PM that was like - oops, didn't read my role properly, I now see I'm town. I shared everything I learned in thread. Why does your opinion on LC depend on my alignment?

What I'm questioning is what intentions LC would have if he knew he was not town to go out in the thread and say it was an LMS game and then go back on his word? What would he gain from that if he was scum? That makes no sense to me. This is why I'm questioning Timmer's thought process on this.

What I'm not getting a sense of is what LC's offers and PMs has to do with me, other than that I got PMs and shared them in thread?

/I agree LMS games aren't mafia games. I have a town role and I assume there are mafia or the likes to find.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:01 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:50 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 pmLong Con had his own team kill him once.

I don't need to describe a theory that "works for me."

You need to describe it if you want to work together with people. If you don't want that that's your choice. But you leave a lot to be desired for me to understand where you are coming from.

---

I will ask everyone: What do you all think about what you gather Epi's theory is?

If I want to work together with people? I thought this was LMS.

Oh wait. No I didn't. Heh.

Look, I get people lynched for less than this. I make a good point, and people come in and go, "Epi makes a great point" and they vote. It's how it goes. I don't have to describe anything in this scenario, because I think people are just hoping to survive for a while.

Look! You already have two votes. More than anybody else.

If you must have something from me, here's this: I don't buy LC publicly affirming his deal with you while privately offering it to me (for a second time, this time saying that no one has to know about it). I flat out told him my opinion of him depended on your alignment. I am not making deals with devils who have too many hooves in the cookie jar. LC tried to get me in a deal with not voting for him, and that's fine if he believes this is a last man standing game, which I hope it is not, because those are not fucking Mafia games, and they should stop calling them Mafia, but my role gives me the slim hope that there are mafia to find, and I'm not interested in making vague deals with people, especially if those people make them with everybody and their brother and then everybody again behind the brother's back.

Jeez, you're impossible. I said that the deals were not valid because it's not LMS, and you spout some ominous shit at me. So I PM you and say "Hey fine, if you're upset, then we can have a deal. I didn't mean anything by it." Then you come in here and just throw it in my face like I'm trying to fucking do some double-dealing shit.

I don't know what alignment Dyslexicon is, obviously I can't win by voting for her though. If she's Civ, I helped lynch a Civ. If she's bad, then Epi leads the mislynch on LC. Great setup already.

You think I'm the one with a hoof in the cookie jar? You agreed to the original deal despite knowing it isn't Last Man Standing... and now you come in here and preach and huff about how you're "not interested in making vague deals with people".

I'm not upset. Your PM to me mentioned nothing about me being upset.

My thing here, LC, is that you make these deals, but you can't honor them. Already Dys has two votes and you have one, but you won't vote to save yourself, I imagine (although I think you would).

My point is this: You two advertised early that you have a deal between you. If this is an LMS game, then I have a motive to break up that public deal.

If this is an actual Mafia game, then I have a motive to break up that deal (given my previously stated suspicions).

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:54 pm @Dys, I think you understand me fine

No, I don't. That's why I'm asking.

Here's the thing based on what you've said:
- I take it that you assumed LC to know that he was anti-town.
- With this information LC chose to go into the thread claiming this was an LMS game.

My reaction to this is, why the hell would LC go into the thread claiming such a thing that would obviously draw attention if he didn't believe it to be the case?

I think there's very little chance that LC was lying about not knowing his role. I think he assumed this to actually be an LMS game, what would be the benefit of claiming it otherwise? Unless it was some sort of weird instigator/reaction fishing (which honestly I could see myself doing because lol).

This, however, does not say much about what role LC actually is after checking it. It just says to me that he thought it was LMS and was mistaken.

What I'm getting from you is that I have a very hard time understanding your thought process here. You seem to think LC basically willingly gave himself away as anti-town at the start of the game. This somehow makes you vote for me, and you claim this to be for reactions. You also seem evasive in my questioning.

If you are town, where am I mistaken in my reasoning?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:09 pm

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:54 pm @Dys, I think you understand me fine

No, I don't. That's why I'm asking.

Here's the thing based on what you've said:
- I take it that you assumed LC to know that he was anti-town.
- With this information LC chose to go into the thread claiming this was an LMS game.

My reaction to this is, why the hell would LC go into the thread claiming such a thing that would obviously draw attention if he didn't believe it to be the case?

I think there's very little chance that LC was lying about not knowing his role. I think he assumed this to actually be an LMS game, what would be the benefit of claiming it otherwise? Unless it was some sort of weird instigator/reaction fishing (which honestly I could see myself doing because lol).

This, however, does not say much about what role LC actually is after checking it. It just says to me that he thought it was LMS and was mistaken.

What I'm getting from you is that I have a very hard time understanding your thought process here. You seem to think LC basically willingly gave himself away as anti-town at the start of the game. This somehow makes you vote for me, and you claim this to be for reactions. You also seem evasive in my questioning.

If you are town, where am I mistaken in my reasoning?

I love defending civilians when I'm bad. It grants so much mileage.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:08 pm My thing here, LC, is that you make these deals, but you can't honor them. Already Dys has two votes and you have one, but you won't vote to save yourself, I imagine (although I think you would).

My point is this: You two advertised early that you have a deal between you. If this is an LMS game, then I have a motive to break up that public deal.

If this is an actual Mafia game, then I have a motive to break up that deal (given my previously stated suspicions).

I have not advertised that I have a deal with LC - gurl plz.

I don't have any "deal" with LC - his offer was moot to me since this is not an LMS game.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:04 pmI'm not upset. Your PM to me mentioned nothing about me being upset.

I was paraphrasing from memory. Looking now, I included a line like "I'm not trying to act like a deal we made doesn't matter", and "I'm not totally sure what your response indicates". I am confident in saying that your level of reading comprehension would give you the indication that I took your response to be a negative one.

What about the other thing? You agreed easily to the first deal, and now you act as though you're anti-deals. That's not the most trust-inspiring behaviour.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:10 pmI love defending civilians when I'm bad. It grants so much mileage.

Should I descipher this as you thinking I'm scum and LC is town? Or is it something else?

I can't vouch for LC, but I see no reason why he would go into the thread assuming this to be an LMS game if he knew he was anti-town - do you?

Wtf with these deals?

@LC - Now would be a good time to clear up that thing about you not voting me for however long. Why? You claimed town to me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:30 pm [snip]

I lurv you, btw. Let's be friends and never vote each other before Day 5. \o/

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:38 pm[snip]

I did PM a couple of other folks, with basically the same offer. But those offers are not really valid anymore, because it's not a LMS game. I do like Dizzy's friendly attitude about it though. I guess I'll refrain from voting Dizzy for the first five days. (Although my offer was more like "until we're in the Final Five"... a concept that isn't the same in a regular Mafia game).

Well, Dizzy, here's the exchange. It's not a "thing about me not voting you", so much as you saying "Let's be friends and never vote each other before Day 5. \o/" and me saying "Sure, why not". What part of our earlier exchange is giving you trouble? Why am I the one "clearing it up"? You were there. You clear it up for me.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:22 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:30 pm [snip]

I lurv you, btw. Let's be friends and never vote each other before Day 5. \o/

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:38 pm[snip]

I did PM a couple of other folks, with basically the same offer. But those offers are not really valid anymore, because it's not a LMS game. I do like Dizzy's friendly attitude about it though. I guess I'll refrain from voting Dizzy for the first five days. (Although my offer was more like "until we're in the Final Five"... a concept that isn't the same in a regular Mafia game).

Well, Dizzy, here's the exchange. It's not a "thing about me not voting you", so much as you saying "Let's be friends and never vote each other before Day 5. \o/" and me saying "Sure, why not". What part of our earlier exchange is giving you trouble? Why am I the one "clearing it up"? You were there. You clear it up for me.

Oh, loooool. Fuck, that was clearly a joke based on our PMs. Or, "clearly", I thought. I forgot about that entirely. To be clear: I make jokes! This was not a serious offer.

@Epi - I see where you got the deal thing from now - I apologize. I thought it was clear that it was a joke, and I didn't remember saying it.

@LC - Why run with that offer? The paranoia is not with you, man.

When I have the time to read this shit I'm sure it'll be fuckin' dope.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:29 pm When I have the time to read this shit I'm sure it'll be fuckin' dope.

I'm entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

@Dys:

I think LC has played mafia long enough that the word civilian in a role description is not something that he would have missed. So I surmise that it is possible that his role does not have the word civilian in it. Also very possible is that LC actually IS an LMS role. Whatever he is, he may legit be what he thought the game was. His role could say "must be last one left" or something, and thus he thought that was everyone's boat because that is what he thought the game was.

Either way, NO, I do not think LC knew he was anti-town and chose to play like this. I think he just missed that he is not civilian and/or is an LMS role and goofed in thinking that that was the norm.

As for why my vote is on you? Because it seems to bug you.

So in case this is still unclear - Deal-gate:

- I was offered a deal by LC when he said he thought it was an LMS game.
- I declined and said it's not an LMS game because I'm towm.
- LC says he didn't read his role properly and then claims town and role, and asks me what role I am, which I don't answer.
- I make a joke in thread saying I lurv LC and let's totally not vote each other.
- LC takes this seriously and says he won't then.
- I forget about it because I thought it was so clearly a joke, but it seems LC and Epi took it seriously.

This is mafia, homie. Everything is serious (and also not).

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:32 pm @Dys:

I think LC has played mafia long enough that the word civilian in a role description is not something that he would have missed. So I surmise that it is possible that his role does not have the word civilian in it. Also very possible is that LC actually IS an LMS role. Whatever he is, he may legit be what he thought the game was. His role could say "must be last one left" or something, and thus he thought that was everyone's boat because that is what he thought the game was.

Either way, NO, I do not think LC knew he was anti-town and chose to play like this. I think he just missed that he is not civilian and/or is an LMS role and goofed in thinking that that was the norm.

As for why my vote is on you? Because it seems to bug you.

That makes more sense than what I have gathered earlier, the fact that he would miss the civ out of it all.

Still. If he is an LMS role the action he took does not make sense to me. The natural response to being an LMS role is not to assume that everyone is. This leads me to conclude that whatever LC's role is he just didn't know before he posted and assumed he had no role so all was up in the air. The point that his eyes should've recognized the civ is the fairest so far.

What's bugging me is trying to figure out people's mindset. I've played enough mafia games in my life to have be voted before. Some people here would know lol.

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:38 pm This is mafia, homie. Everything is serious (and also not).

Well, it was a joke from my side ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you're saying everything in thread can and should be considered into figuring out alignment, then I agree.

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:32 pmEither way, NO, I do not think LC knew he was anti-town and chose to play like this. I think he just missed that he is not civilian and/or is an LMS role and goofed in thinking that that was the norm.

Ok, Mr Smart Guy. If I am an LMS-type role and just got confused by that, then why did I say this in the sign-up thread:

Long Con wrote:No, not like that - open BTSC makes for epic alliances and epic betrayals, and I don't want to get my heart broken again.

It's obvious I was thinking it was LMS from the get-go. "Epic alliances and epic betrayals" isn't really the tagline for a regular Mafia game, open BTSC or not.

But that's my point, LC. You were thinking it was LMS. You've admitted it. So if you actually GOT an LMS role.... you might think we all did, right? Because you were thinking it was an LMS game and here you were with an LMS role, etc.

I don't have an LMS role. I have a Civ role. My mind just read the "vanilla" part and didn't process the "civ" part as a "civ-vs-mafia" thing because I wasn't in that mindset. Like, we're all Civvies in a LMS game, you know?

I've actually played a game where everyone was VTs on D1. I kind of don't want to think about it... but. o.o

Well I've NEVER had to knock on wood
But I know someone who has
Which makes me wonder if I could
It makes me wonder if
I've NEVER had to knock on wood
And I'm glad I haven't yet
Because I'm sure it isn't good
That's the impression that I get

If anything this should illustrate the dangers of saying too much too soon to the wrong peoples. The slightest pressure and this whole BTSC-spiracy collapsed. Nerds.

Hm. I believe LC and Dys are telling truths.

P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

So many posts, oh geeee
This talk is not for meeee
All this girl wants to beeee
Is taken to Kay Eff Ceeee

Tell me all your se-creeets
While we're having nu-ggeeets
So delicious, you'll seeee
It'll make us feel freeee

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:51 pm But that's my point, LC. You were thinking it was LMS. You've admitted it. So if you actually GOT an LMS role.... you might think we all did, right? Because you were thinking it was an LMS game and here you were with an LMS role, etc.

I am confused by this.

If you think he actually IS an LMS role, then he would not have baddie teammates. So why are you voting for Dizzy?

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:54 am P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

So many posts, oh geeee
This talk is not for meeee
All this girl wants to beeee
Is taken to Kay Eff Ceeee

Tell me all your se-creeets
While we're having nu-ggeeets
So delicious, you'll seeee
It'll make us feel freeee

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:05 am

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:54 am P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y I'm Poppy!
P O P P Y That's me!

So many posts, oh geeee
This talk is not for meeee
All this girl wants to beeee
Is taken to Kay Eff Ceeee

Tell me all your se-creeets
While we're having nu-ggeeets
So delicious, you'll seeee
It'll make us feel freeee

I'm just getting sick of it to be honest, it's at the point it's annoying me

ALl in favor of voting to lynch the most annoying player?

thellama73 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:33 am ALl in favor of voting to lynch the most annoying player?

Why? So he can gain immunity for perpetuity because he successfully got himself lynched Day 1?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:35 am

thellama73 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:33 am ALl in favor of voting to lynch the most annoying player?

Why? So he can gain immunity for perpetuity because he successfully got himself lynched Day 1?

If it makes him stop being annoying, then yes

Also I doubt the prescence of a Fool/Jester so I see no problem at lynching. There are only 3 power roles present after all since it's a heist, correct?

Mkay time to catch up

Self imposed curses annoy the heck out of me, but they don't make people baddies. Unfortunately.

I used to think they were just a way for people to weasel out of answering questions in a coherent way, or to have the appearance of a lot of posts without having any actual content (until I saw G Man iso the entire player list in Haiku or Limericks, some kind of poetry in a non poetry themed game) but in my experience, baddies seldom actually do that kind of thing becasue it draws too much attention to them.

I doubt Rico is bad, but his P O P P Y schtick is, lol.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:56 pm I don't have an LMS role. I have a Civ role. My mind just read the "vanilla" part and didn't process the "civ" part as a "civ-vs-mafia" thing because I wasn't in that mindset. Like, we're all Civvies in a LMS game, you know?

Hmmm I think this is it right here fam I don't think LC is lying.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:46 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:35 am

thellama73 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:33 am ALl in favor of voting to lynch the most annoying player?

Why? So he can gain immunity for perpetuity because he successfully got himself lynched Day 1?

If it makes him stop being annoying, then yes

Also I doubt the prescence of a Fool/Jester so I see no problem at lynching. There are only 3 power roles present after all since it's a heist, correct?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:05 am
I am confused by this.

If you think he actually IS an LMS role, then he would not have baddie teammates. So why are you voting for Dizzy?

At this point, mostly for the lulz. If nothing else happens I'll more likely vote for LC.

Do not want to hunt LC or Dys.

SVS is not good boy.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:31 am Do not want to hunt LC or Dys.

SVS is not good boy.

Afraid you're mistaken there, Spot. THis makes me sad, dogs generally like me.