The Search for Quin [END]

[Sloonei]

EBVOP: Or by clicking the post number, I suppose.

[sanmateo]

fuck it i'm just quoting every single post itt

Spoiler: show

Epi vs LC, aka "El Clásico"

I know, right? I mean, I was just joking around... but Epi's reaction! I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he totally freaked out. He demanded four times that I substantiate my claims, then he throws out a weak-ass OMGUS, and then demands opinions from everyone on it.

Not to mention he completely ignored Wilgy, who also made a very similar joke. I guess he understood that Wilgy's post was a joke, but not mine. This is unexpectedly juicy Night 0 stuff!

alright, well this post is obviously an overreaction. that's approximately one half of the case against this guy, the other half being the meta stuff epignosis was talking about. i obviously don't know much about that but i think it's more important that this kind of conflict between these two has played out multiple times in previous games. i don't think there's much i can do by learning everyone's meta but i'd like to know more about the specifics of the previous installments of the epi/lc clasico.

Spoiler: show

This is unexpectedly juicy Night 0 stuff!

Isn't it though!?
I'm not even under pressure and I'm still finding it impossible to see your posts in a joking light.

It wasn't a joke. If you were egging on Epi to get a reaction, which I could have bought, you wouldn't be backpedaling so ridiculously hard right now.

this is speedchuck's reaction to the post above, makes sense for a townie. sloonei also picked up on it immediately and questioned long con over several posts, because he's sloonei and he asks questions and shit. the otherfirst responder was mp, and he said epi was a town read, which i want him to elaborate on. i think epi's last post (the one about looking at other players) is very town-like but i'm mostly interested on why mp said that at that point in time.

Spoiler: show

Epi vs LC, aka "El Clásico"

I know, right? I mean, I was just joking around... but Epi's reaction! I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he totally freaked out. He demanded four times that I substantiate my claims, then he throws out a weak-ass OMGUS, and then demands opinions from everyone on it.

Not to mention he completely ignored Wilgy, who also made a very similar joke. I guess he understood that Wilgy's post was a joke, but not mine. This is unexpectedly juicy Night 0 stuff!

I don't like the tone of this post. Sounds like you are trying to make him look back without engaging him yourself.

now this, *kisses fingers like chef boyardee* this is that sus shit. just piling on

Spoiler: show

I felt like Epignosis' reactions were way more suspicious than my reaction to them. I don't understand why you ignore my points about his reactions and just vote for me instead.

How about this for a plan then? We lynch you today for your backtracking. If you flip civ, then we lynch Epig on Day 2 since he was clearly egging you on and trying to start something!

piling on... slightly more egregious because bwt said they think both are neutral reads. dragon and bird look scummier to me than LC based on this

[speedchuck]

Is sanmateo town or am I just biased because he is in mindmeld with me?

[Sloonei]

I moved my vote to birdwithteeth.

[sanmateo]

the thing about bird that i feel is throwing me off is jay's post at the beginning of day 1 and the bwt night 0 claim.

[Sloonei]

the thing about bird that i feel is throwing me off is jay's post at the beginning of day 1 and the bwt night 0 claim.

You and I have known Jay the longest of anyone in this game. What do you think are the chances that he provided birdwithteeth with information, true or false, about the Day 0 poll?

[sanmateo]

seems unlikely. but there's clearly a mechanic at play here and mp07 said that there's a precedent for giving info to random players in night 0 polls.

[DrWilgy]

With classic BWT style and grace. I don't like it.

BWT, you state that LC is more bad than Epi. Why? Is LC's baddieness relative to Epi's the determining factor on him being scum? What about those who haven't been here? Like me, Quin, who for some reason you all are looking for.

I would ask you the same question, Wilgy. What do you think of the less-talked-about people?

That I am hungry and indifferent.

[Long Con]

Hey all, another weekend, another food truck event for us. I'm just posting from the event, and when I come home later, I'll post some more. I don't think Epi's points from other games are similar enough to consider comparing this game too. Obviously talking about more people is a healthy thing, and we have plenty of time so I'll talk to you all later.

[Sloonei]

With classic BWT style and grace. I don't like it.

BWT, you state that LC is more bad than Epi. Why? Is LC's baddieness relative to Epi's the determining factor on him being scum? What about those who haven't been here? Like me, Quin, who for some reason you all are looking for.

I would ask you the same question, Wilgy. What do you think of the less-talked-about people?

That I am hungry and indifferent.

which players are you most hungry and indifferent about?

[Long Con]

Also, I loved the Chef Boyardee magnifico finger kiss. I'm still laughing.

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting for Queensland because I have info that it will help the civ cause.

Let's see where that one leads us.

Let's go back to this post. Some people accepted it, all of us seem to have followed it in our votes, but I'm not as familiar with the origins of information like this being distributed. I don't think bwt lied maliciously and I see no real grounds for suspicion here, but how much stock, if any, should we put in a claim like his? Especially in a Heist.

I think it's a reasonable claim. In many games back on Lostpedia/The Piano/Revolutionmafia before The Syndicate was founded, as well as in the early days of this site, it was very commonplace to start out the game with Day 0 with a poll like this. The host(s) often would PM a few randomly selected townies informing them of the option that was town-friendly, and same with the mafia team and independent faction. However, the results of the Day 0 poll usually weren't evident to everyone until the end of the game so that it didn't out people. There were variations, naturally, especially increasingly so over time as hosts became more creative, but a scenario in which each option corresponded to a faction and the option to receive the most votes "wins" for that faction was common when I started playing back in 2010. Another somewhat common variation developed where instead the Day 0 options individualized results (see: my Super Meat Boy game here on TS), where if one player voted for one option maybe it did nothing but another player voted for a different option which gave them a +1 vote for Day 1 or any number of things.

He could be lying, but I tentatively don't see any reason for why anyone would lie about this, especially since games with Day 0 polls accompanied by information have completely fallen out of style for a few years now.

I still like to include some sort of informationally meaningful Day 0 poll. My favourite was the Erlatz Eleven - 11 voters on one choice, and it was known that one of them got recruited to a bad team. Fun!

To this day that just might be my favorite still as well. Man, that was so much fun!

[Tangrowth]

Epi vs LC, aka "El Clásico"

I know, right? I mean, I was just joking around... but Epi's reaction! I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he totally freaked out. He demanded four times that I substantiate my claims, then he throws out a weak-ass OMGUS, and then demands opinions from everyone on it.

Not to mention he completely ignored Wilgy, who also made a very similar joke. I guess he understood that Wilgy's post was a joke, but not mine. This is unexpectedly juicy Night 0 stuff!

If any post produces suspicion against Long Con, it's this one. I agree with Speedchuck that there is an impression of backtracking here in his "I was joking" stance. It may be the case that he was just playfully poking at Epi initially, but the way this post is constructed gives me the impression that he is seizing on the existing backlash against Epi's response to turn it willfully into a bandwagon.

I think that's persuasive and agreeable. I'd say that I'm not really sure what to make of LC but that I do find the post you highlighted here the most suspicious for the reasons you outline.

[Tangrowth]

Epi going after MP early is giving me dejavu.

Hasn't for me yet, probably because no mentions of "bean dip" have been made yet.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Day 1

Australia's most dedicated investigators are on the case. Quin is on the loose, and it will take a coordinated national effort to track him down. The top minds came together at the newly established Headquarters of the Quin Search in Sunshine Coast. The discussion was heated from the start, passions elevated by the terribly indecent nature of their quarry and the necessity to determine his location immediately. Much time was wasted however when presenters promoted numerous leads in Queensland. They'd seemed promising at first, but it quickly became evident that there was nothing there. Eventually the team found their start in New South Wales.

It is Day 1. This phase will last 48 hours.

Based on Jay's post, it seems BWT was either mistaken or lying. Well then.

[Tangrowth]

I felt like Epignosis' reactions were way more suspicious than my reaction to them. I don't understand why you ignore my points about his reactions and just vote for me instead.

How about this for a plan then? We lynch you today for your backtracking. If you flip civ, then we lynch Epig on Day 2 since he was clearly egging you on and trying to start something!

Dammit man, don't get yourself mislynched again for saying stuff so cavalierly.

[Tangrowth]

BWT is being indecisive as fuck. That means he's town. If he was bad, he would force consistency.

[Epignosis]

This is what I was going to say earlier, but did not have time, and I'm glad I didn't since people are talking about him.

I like birdwithteeth's early move. I don't believe 3J gave him information about the poll, and I think he lied about it.

But I think he did it just to do it and, just as he said was intention, get something going.

If bwt is bad and did this, knowing he would be exposed very quickly, that's a short-term gain, long-term loss, as they say, and I'm not even sure that it's a short-term gain at all, because unless he set this up so that his teammates could gain some early credibility, I don't see any positive outcome for him at all.

What I do see is a someone throwing something out there to see who will follow him, who will question him, and who will ignore him.

Nothing wrong with that.

[Tangrowth]

This is what I was going to say earlier, but did not have time, and I'm glad I didn't since people are talking about him.

I like birdwithteeth's early move. I don't believe 3J gave him information about the poll, and I think he lied about it.

But I think he did it just to do it and, just as he said was intention, get something going.

If bwt is bad and did this, knowing he would be exposed very quickly, that's a short-term gain, long-term loss, as they say, and I'm not even sure that it's a short-term gain at all, because unless he set this up so that his teammates could gain some early credibility, I don't see any positive outcome for him at all.

What I do see is a someone throwing something out there to see who will follow him, who will question him, and who will ignore him.

Nothing wrong with that.

I agree entirely. It's now clear given the N0 result that he was lying, but I think that brazen of a move doesn't come from a mafia BWT.

[Tangrowth]

I've got a town read on Epi. Could currently go either way for LC. Looking forward to Epi's meta analysis of LC's previous scum behavior.


-The thread is only 4 pages long, which means MP is probably scum.

-Spacedaisy and nutella are checking in and promising later content. If they don't deliver it, I'm going to see about lynching them.

-Do not like BWT's plan. I feel like we'd have better than 50% odds of lynching two townies with that.

-BWT himself seems to be at a lack for original content. Looking at his recent 4 posts, we have:
A jokey off-topic post, a post that puts LC and Epi as 'neutral' town, quotes of the start of the LC/Epi convo, and a weak vote on LC. Then back before that BWT had a post that almost word-for-word agreed with MP.
All of BWT's posts, except for the ones about info (that was obviously false), have been quotes, OT jokes, and near-exact parroting.

-Sloon and Epi look good to me. Those are my town reads.

Ha, not scum, just restricting myself to the thread only as short breaks or after I've had a productive day's worth of work. I can't afford any full-on MP postfests; Street Fighter was a nice distraction, but my schedule demands more from me at the moment. Besides, I can postfest as scum pretty easily.

That's fair enough, but I believe my buddy [mention]NewTraditionalist[/mention] and arch rival [mention]Dom[/mention] haven't checked in yet either, have they?

LOL, that's BWT's meta to the T.

[Tangrowth]

With classic BWT style and grace. I don't like it.

Does anyone have a way I can get a meta on BWT?

Yeah.

I've known the guy now for over 10 years and he's my best friend. I introduced him to mafia about 6 years ago. Despite our familiarity, he's one of the best people at reading me and I was historically one of the worst at reading him. I mislynched him the first three games we ever played together despite being town alongside him two of those three games (used the other one as a convenient mislynch). When he started playing here, he became an often-mislynched player in general (like sig) and barely if ever made it to endgame without being lynched at some point (very occasionally NKed). Simply put, it's because he always plays fast and loose, tends to express his opinion as a function of previously discussed topics, and forms his thoughts with no regards to consistency.

Honestly it can be difficult for me to suss out when he's being mafia vs. town, but I'd generalize that while his meta is typically characterized by the following descriptors, he tends to be more inconsistent, gambit-driven, OT/jokey, and wacky as town than he is as bad. When he's bad, he forces his opinions to be just a bit more logically consistent and tries to not draw quite as much attention to himself. That's just based on my interpretation of years of playing with him though, and I tend to not try to rely too much on meta, but BWT is one of the rare players where I feel like meta is something that needs to be considered a bit more because he always brings the heat on himself. I try to use vote analysis and other methods to catch him as opposed to zooming in on supposed inconsistencies in his opinions (which I tend to focus on in general).

[Tangrowth]

With classic BWT style and grace. I don't like it.

Does anyone have a way I can get a meta on BWT?

MP does, probably. I've only played sporadically with him over the years, so I don't have a solid meta read on him either. I have not been putting a tremendous amount of stock in his Night 0 infoclaim, but I suppose it could be concerning given that similar info manipulation on Day/Night 0 has been used in the past. But our Host was not here when that sort of thing was in style. It's foreign to Jay, so I wonder whether it's something he would include in a game of his. I don't put it past him to be aware of the idea and to want to slip it into his game as an experiment.

All the signs so far point to BWT's information being false anyway. My initial assumption was that he just made it up to give us something to talk about, but he's so far insisted that he was not lying. I don't think any of this is very telling in itself, but it's going to form the foundation of my read of BWT in this game and he's someone to keep an eye on, I suppose.

I'm trying really hard to talk about things that aren't Long Con before I offer any new thoughts on him. This has been a fairly active, but very one-dimensional start to the game.

I think it's safe to say that BWT lied about it as a gambit to get discussion going at this point, and that he likely wouldn't know how common information-driven N0's would have been when he made the gambit anyway since he hasn't played that much in a while.

[Tangrowth]

Contrary to my previous stance of "Pile all votes on Long Con", I am wary of people who have piled suspicion on Long Con, even though I count myself among them. Regardless of how I feel about the Day 1 case around him, I can't ignore that there is easy potential for this bandwagon to be driven by opportunistic scums right off the bat.

That means posts like these catch my eye:

Spoiler: show

Epi vs LC, aka "El Clásico"

I know, right? I mean, I was just joking around... but Epi's reaction! I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he totally freaked out. He demanded four times that I substantiate my claims, then he throws out a weak-ass OMGUS, and then demands opinions from everyone on it.

Not to mention he completely ignored Wilgy, who also made a very similar joke. I guess he understood that Wilgy's post was a joke, but not mine. This is unexpectedly juicy Night 0 stuff!

I don't like the tone of this post. Sounds like you are trying to make him look back without engaging him yourself.

Since votes are changeable, I'm going to go ahead and put mine on Long Con for now. But since it's still early on Day 1, it's a very weak baddie read right now, but looking back at the initial start I feel like LC looks more bad than Epig.

If I were someone else I'd be wary of me too.

As an aside, my Q and w keys are not working, so any time I need to call in either of those letters I've been copy & pasting from elsewhere on the page. I just want to document my struggle and ask if anyone knows a better solution than my Ctrl + v strategy.

I already have a town read of BWT so perhaps my perception is colored by that, but I am a bit intrigued by DDL's opinion. He seems uncharacteristically tame so far this game. I'm not sure what to make of it.

[Tangrowth]

I'll try to keep this brief.

Spoiler: show

In Mass Effect, an evil independent LC kept calling me nervous. We've had this argument since, but I maintain that I was not nervous, but rather was gleeful that my little scheme to out a member of the mafia was working.

Yes, he'll remind you that I wasn't a civilian (True: I was at the time a neutral who could eventually side with either good or bad) and that he wasn't mafia (True, but he was last man standing, which is a role civilians need dead to win, and is therefore "bad").

My point is that LC framed my posts in such a way that supported his narrative (to get me lynched) rather than one to help the civilians (to get mafia lynched).

Spoiler: show

In Blue Velvet, LC was bad, I was good, and we had a back and forth on Mass Effect. Here is LC's big, misleading post about me.

Spoiler: show

In Night Vale, Long Con and I were both bad- teammates even. What does he resort to?

I look nervous to you, LC?

The line I referenced looks like textbook nervousness... it's not a general thing with all your posts or anything, but come on - you read that line and tell me I'm wrong.

I recall seeing this and rolling my eyes. "Not this 'nervous' bullshit again. Were I not on LC's team, I would have crucified him for it.

Long Con's evil M.O. when he is bad is to cavalierly control the narrative to the point of outright making things up and sticking to them even when proof is presented to the contrary. He would make an admirable politician.

That's why I don't buy for a second his insistence that what he has been trying to sell as a joke was a joke.

Wow, nicely illustrated. I think this is the most convincing meta case you've ever built on Day 1.

[Tangrowth]

I felt like Epignosis' reactions were way more suspicious than my reaction to them. I don't understand why you ignore my points about his reactions and just vote for me instead.

How about this for a plan then? We lynch you today for your backtracking. If you flip civ, then we lynch Epig on Day 2 since he was clearly egging you on and trying to start something!

yeah that seems like a terrible plan. none of what i've seen from the epi/LC thing moves me particularly. it's a bunch of tepid day 1 stuff. but more importantly, if getting into weird arguments in-game is really a recurring thing between them, then obviously we need to look elsewhere because anything coming from either of the two about the other one holds less weight.

This post makes sanmateo look good to me. I sense a general concern from a townie.

[Sloonei]

I think I see BWT's false info gambit exactly as MP and Epi have expressed it as well. The only way it makes sense as a scum ploy is if he's serving us a healthy heap of WIFOM right off the bat. I don't know him well enough to say with any confidence how likely he is to do that, but my gut tells me it's unlikely.

[Tangrowth]

I think I see BWT's false info gambit exactly as MP and Epi have expressed it as well. The only way it makes sense as a scum ploy is if he's serving us a healthy heap of WIFOM right off the bat. I don't know him well enough to say with any confidence how likely he is to do that, but my gut tells me it's unlikely.

He could play with WIFOM like that if bad; I wouldn't put it past him. But I'm currently not of that belief because it all strikes me as genuine.

[Sloonei]

Moved my vote to Sir Dragon D. Luffy.

[Tangrowth]

Snipped a bit here for clarity to respond to sanmateo's inquiry of me:

fuck it i'm just quoting every single post itt

Spoiler: show

This is unexpectedly juicy Night 0 stuff!

Isn't it though!?
I'm not even under pressure and I'm still finding it impossible to see your posts in a joking light.

It wasn't a joke. If you were egging on Epi to get a reaction, which I could have bought, you wouldn't be backpedaling so ridiculously hard right now.

this is speedchuck's reaction to the post above, makes sense for a townie. sloonei also picked up on it immediately and questioned long con over several posts, because he's sloonei and he asks questions and shit. the otherfirst responder was mp, and he said epi was a town read, which i want him to elaborate on. i think epi's last post (the one about looking at other players) is very town-like but i'm mostly interested on why mp said that at that point in time.

I assume you're referring to this post by me. I read Epi pursuing LC, especially at that particular post, as genuine; it even specifically felt like flashbacks to prior games in which a town Epi sat back and observed a bit, made some potentially discussion-starting remarks, then pounced on someone for perceived illogical behavior or a contradiction. I'd have to do a bit of digging to uncover parallels for you, but that's what crossed my mind when I read that post. Epi's admittedly a tough player to pin down and I'll never truly 100% trust him especially after he and Daisy made fools of me in Lost Again, but in the moment that post read sincere to me so I wanted to throw out a town read for it.

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting for [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

[Epignosis]

I think I see BWT's false info gambit exactly as MP and Epi have expressed it as well. The only way it makes sense as a scum ploy is if he's serving us a healthy heap of WIFOM right off the bat. I don't know him well enough to say with any confidence how likely he is to do that, but my gut tells me it's unlikely.

So what made you vote for him?

[Spacedaisy]

I'm voting for @Spacedaisy because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

If this came from anyone else I could excuse it, but this guy right here knows that I have barely been on the site in the last few days. He knows that I am juggling multiple writing projects in addition to two games. He knows I've been exhausted and slept a lot more than normal. So tell me why this guy says me being quiet is shady. No, I'm not buying this.

*votes MP*

[Tangrowth]

A reads/preliminary rainbow list for me right now would look something like this:

Moderate Town -- would NOT vote
birdwithteeth11
Epignosis
sanmateo

Slight Town -- would NOT vote
speedchuck

==================================================

Neutral-- would potentially vote
Dom
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
NewTraditionalist
nutella
Serge
Spacedaisy

Slight Mafia-- would potentially vote
Long Con
Sloonei

Players are not ranked within groups, only across groups.

Generally I prefer to stick to POE and usually don't feel comfortable making any firm mafia reads at this stage, but despite being hesitant because I do feel LC is a player who can get himself into trouble early on, I'm relatively convinced by Epi's pursuit of LC and would call him a sole slight mafia read. I also am a bit wary of Sloonei; perhaps it's a bit leftover shock still from Street Fighter, but without taking an in-depth look at his ISO I'm not sure I buy Sloonei's attempts to start discussion to be genuine. Specifically, he doesn't seem that interested in actually developing reads and seems a bit too hoppy. But those are just general impressions and maybe I'm being overly paranoid of him.

As for my neutrals, well, I'm not sure how to sort Wilgy or DDL yet. Everyone else has been too quiet or essentially nonexistent, which is disconcerting. Hopefully we hear from them before the deadline.

I'm going to be pretty busy tomorrow, so my activity will be less than ideal. I'll be here in the hour or two leading to EoD though at a minimum; I think I can set aside that time at least.

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting for @Spacedaisy because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

If this came from anyone else I could excuse it, but this guy right here knows that I have barely been on the site in the last few days. He knows that I am juggling multiple writing projects in addition to two games. He knows I've been exhausted and slept a lot more than normal. So tell me why this guy says me being quiet is shady. No, I'm not buying this.

*votes MP*

Woah, hold your horse there. I know you've been really busy and am aware of your preoccupations as well as your work schedule. It's merely a pressure vote. I didn't say you were shady; I just want you to say things and expressed that I get paranoid of you when you aren't talking.

I'm not sure what to make of this reaction, but I tentatively feel OK about it.

[Tangrowth]

Moving my vote to [mention]nutella[/mention]

I await Daisy's fully formed opinions, but that actually makes me feel good enough about her for now.

[Sloonei]

A reads/preliminary rainbow list for me right now would look something like this:

Moderate Town -- would NOT vote
birdwithteeth11
Epignosis
sanmateo

Slight Town -- would NOT vote
speedchuck

==================================================

Neutral-- would potentially vote
Dom
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
NewTraditionalist
nutella
Serge
Spacedaisy

Slight Mafia-- would potentially vote
Long Con
Sloonei

Players are not ranked within groups, only across groups.

Generally I prefer to stick to POE and usually don't feel comfortable making any firm mafia reads at this stage, but despite being hesitant because I do feel LC is a player who can get himself into trouble early on, I'm relatively convinced by Epi's pursuit of LC and would call him a sole slight mafia read. I also am a bit wary of Sloonei; perhaps it's a bit leftover shock still from Street Fighter, but without taking an in-depth look at his ISO I'm not sure I buy Sloonei's attempts to start discussion to be genuine. Specifically, he doesn't seem that interested in actually developing reads and seems a bit too hoppy. But those are just general impressions and maybe I'm being overly paranoid of him.

As for my neutrals, well, I'm not sure how to sort Wilgy or DDL yet. Everyone else has been too quiet or essentially nonexistent, which is disconcerting. Hopefully we hear from them before the deadline.

I'm going to be pretty busy tomorrow, so my activity will be less than ideal. I'll be here in the hour or two leading to EoD though at a minimum; I think I can set aside that time at least.

where do my reads fail to meet your standards? There have been slim pickings in the non-Long Con division of this game, most of my posts so far have been geared toward generating content so that I can develop reads.

[Sloonei]

I think I see BWT's false info gambit exactly as MP and Epi have expressed it as well. The only way it makes sense as a scum ploy is if he's serving us a healthy heap of WIFOM right off the bat. I don't know him well enough to say with any confidence how likely he is to do that, but my gut tells me it's unlikely.

So what made you vote for him?

Indecision and the speculation that players could be opportunistically piling pressure onto Long Con.

[Tangrowth]

where do my reads fail to meet your standards? There have been slim pickings in the non-Long Con division of this game, most of my posts so far have been geared toward generating content so that I can develop reads.

Honestly, typing up that post I was going to name you as neutral but then I hit your name and it was really a spur of the moment GTH sort of read, something about you that just makes me feel uneasy about sorting you at the moment. Admittedly, a very weak suspicion. I'll dig through your ISO and hopefully I can better place my feelings about you -- and quickly because I need to get back to work.

[Epignosis]

Moving my vote to @nutella

I await Daisy's fully formed opinions, but that actually makes me feel good enough about her for now.

Wearing body marks into that couch already, are you?

[Tangrowth]

Moving my vote to @nutella

I await Daisy's fully formed opinions, but that actually makes me feel good enough about her for now.

Wearing body marks into that couch already, are you?

Nah, I just like the fire with which she responded. Daisy has an unmistakable difference in her town vs. mafia games; it's the 'town spark' phenomenon that isn't quite there when she's mafia even though she can fake it well and still fool me (ahem, Lost Again, but that was my fault for being so closed-minded in my read of her). I wasn't even quite expecting it; with the town reads I've been developing I figure it's possible she's mafia, and she hadn't said anything yet, so I wanted to see if she would just shrug it off or not. The fact that she didn't just shrug it off and came at me was a bit unexpected but works for me.

[Sloonei]

[mention]MovingPictures07[/mention] I mean, look at your rainbow list. You have 7 people in the neutral territory. How can I be blamed for having lackluster reads when you yourself agree that more than half the players in the game are more or less unreadable at this stage?

linki: fair enough. I look forward to your ISO. I can't blame you if there's lingering suspicion from Street Fighter. I made a deliberate effort to buddy you.

[Spacedaisy]

I'm voting for @Spacedaisy because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

If this came from anyone else I could excuse it, but this guy right here knows that I have barely been on the site in the last few days. He knows that I am juggling multiple writing projects in addition to two games. He knows I've been exhausted and slept a lot more than normal. So tell me why this guy says me being quiet is shady. No, I'm not buying this.

*votes MP*

Woah, hold your horse there. I know you've been really busy and am aware of your preoccupations as well as your work schedule. It's merely a pressure vote. I didn't say you were shady; I just want you to say things and expressed that I get paranoid of you when you aren't talking.

I'm not sure what to make of this reaction, but I tentatively feel OK about it.

Here's the thing. When you are pressure voting someone you are upfront about it. No you didn't use the word shady. You said it makes you nervous when I'm not posting. You didn't say this is a pressure vote. You implied that me not posting is somehow scary. When you know that my not posting has zero to do with my alignment.

[Tangrowth]

Sloonei, briefly glancing at your post history I don't see anything alarming per se, but I do think your opinions are relatively... predictable? Not sure what a better word for it would be. You didn't find anything suspicious in Epi's behavior, you then made some good points against LC's reactions but only after Epi already started making them, and then you moved your vote to BWT after sanmateo expressed that things should be shifted to the LC bandwagoners. Your opinions just seem to be moving with the tides of the thread, and now that Epi and I expressed a town opinion of BWT you've shifted again. You're also asking a ton of questions, which I know is your norm, but I don't get the sense from a lot of them that you're forming reads about any of the people you're inquiring from -- Wilgy, sanmateo, etc. It all just seems very safe, like you're trying to seem like you're hunting but ruffling as few feathers as possible. I also felt like you may have shifted your vote to BWT hoping that he would be a mislynch but without really pushing it hard, but now you've backed off of it seemingly. Maybe it's an unfair characterization of your posts, I don't know, and I realize it's possible I'm being overly paranoid due to recency bias. I wouldn't say it's anything other than a minor suspicion at this point, but I do still stand by my overall assessment of it.

[Tangrowth]

MovingPictures07 I mean, look at your rainbow list. You have 7 people in the neutral territory. How can I be blamed for having lackluster reads when you yourself agree that more than half the players in the game are more or less unreadable at this stage?

linki: fair enough. I look forward to your ISO. I can't blame you if there's lingering suspicion from Street Fighter. I made a deliberate effort to buddy you.

Do you think I'm unfairly questioning you?

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting for @Spacedaisy because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

If this came from anyone else I could excuse it, but this guy right here knows that I have barely been on the site in the last few days. He knows that I am juggling multiple writing projects in addition to two games. He knows I've been exhausted and slept a lot more than normal. So tell me why this guy says me being quiet is shady. No, I'm not buying this.

*votes MP*

Woah, hold your horse there. I know you've been really busy and am aware of your preoccupations as well as your work schedule. It's merely a pressure vote. I didn't say you were shady; I just want you to say things and expressed that I get paranoid of you when you aren't talking.

I'm not sure what to make of this reaction, but I tentatively feel OK about it.

Here's the thing. When you are pressure voting someone you are upfront about it. No you didn't use the word shady. You said it makes you nervous when I'm not posting. You didn't say this is a pressure vote. You implied that me not posting is somehow scary. When you know that my not posting has zero to do with my alignment.

I literally said "because I want her to say things". I thought that made it evident enough that it was a vote designed to get you to say things. And it does make me nervous when you're not posting; that's a general fact regardless of the circumstances that may have been keeping you from posting in this game. You and I both know I always try to sort you as quickly as possible for that reason.

[Sloonei]

MovingPictures07 I mean, look at your rainbow list. You have 7 people in the neutral territory. How can I be blamed for having lackluster reads when you yourself agree that more than half the players in the game are more or less unreadable at this stage?

linki: fair enough. I look forward to your ISO. I can't blame you if there's lingering suspicion from Street Fighter. I made a deliberate effort to buddy you.

Do you think I'm unfairly questioning you?

I feel your initial read of me was made using a point that should not apply. There's nothing unfair about questioning me.

[Tangrowth]

MovingPictures07 I mean, look at your rainbow list. You have 7 people in the neutral territory. How can I be blamed for having lackluster reads when you yourself agree that more than half the players in the game are more or less unreadable at this stage?

linki: fair enough. I look forward to your ISO. I can't blame you if there's lingering suspicion from Street Fighter. I made a deliberate effort to buddy you.

Do you think I'm unfairly questioning you?

I feel your initial read of me was made using a point that should not apply. There's nothing unfair about questioning me.

What point shouldn't apply specifically?

[Epignosis]

I think I see BWT's false info gambit exactly as MP and Epi have expressed it as well. The only way it makes sense as a scum ploy is if he's serving us a healthy heap of WIFOM right off the bat. I don't know him well enough to say with any confidence how likely he is to do that, but my gut tells me it's unlikely.

So what made you vote for him?

Indecision and the speculation that players could be opportunistically piling pressure onto Long Con.

I hope I make sense with what I'm getting ready to say.

bird threw something out there that was, from my perspective, an inconsequential lie (for us) that could have probably gotten him lynched (given his track record).

You threw this out there:

Pile votes on Long Con, let's go.

To me, that's a bit more obvious bait than someone claiming Day 0 information to get people moving on a Day 0 poll.

It's so obvious, you only got (?) one person to vote, and that was...bird. If in fact you got him to vote because of what you said (I don't think you got anybody to vote LC because of your pile on post).

You counted DDL as a bite, but that doesn't make sense to me either.

Contrary to my previous stance of "Pile all votes on Long Con", I am wary of people who have piled suspicion on Long Con, even though I count myself among them. Regardless of how I feel about the Day 1 case around him, I can't ignore that there is easy potential for this bandwagon to be driven by opportunistic scums right off the bat.

That means posts like these catch my eye:

Spoiler: show

Epi vs LC, aka "El Clásico"

I know, right? I mean, I was just joking around... but Epi's reaction! I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he totally freaked out. He demanded four times that I substantiate my claims, then he throws out a weak-ass OMGUS, and then demands opinions from everyone on it.

Not to mention he completely ignored Wilgy, who also made a very similar joke. I guess he understood that Wilgy's post was a joke, but not mine. This is unexpectedly juicy Night 0 stuff!

I don't like the tone of this post. Sounds like you are trying to make him look back without engaging him yourself.

Since votes are changeable, I'm going to go ahead and put mine on Long Con for now. But since it's still early on Day 1, it's a very weak baddie read right now, but looking back at the initial start I feel like LC looks more bad than Epig.

If I were someone else I'd be wary of me too.

As an aside, my Q and w keys are not working, so any time I need to call in either of those letters I've been copy & pasting from elsewhere on the page. I just want to document my struggle and ask if anyone knows a better solution than my Ctrl + v strategy.

I wouldn't regard either of these are piling suspicion on Long Con. You do though. And you voted birdwithteeth11, and then moved your vote to DDL.

This all strikes me a charade- a dance, if you will- intended to protect Long Con while giving yourself an avenue of looking open-minded in case he got lynched after all.

"Look at all the opportunistic mafia! All two of them!"

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, briefly glancing at your post history I don't see anything alarming per se, but I do think your opinions are relatively... predictable? Not sure what a better word for it would be. You didn't find anything suspicious in Epi's behavior, you then made some good points against LC's reactions but only after Epi already started making them, and then you moved your vote to BWT after sanmateo expressed that things should be shifted to the LC bandwagoners. Your opinions just seem to be moving with the tides of the thread, and now that Epi and I expressed a town opinion of BWT you've shifted again. You're also asking a ton of questions, which I know is your norm, but I don't get the sense from a lot of them that you're forming reads about any of the people you're inquiring from -- Wilgy, sanmateo, etc. It all just seems very safe, like you're trying to seem like you're hunting but ruffling as few feathers as possible. I also felt like you may have shifted your vote to BWT hoping that he would be a mislynch but without really pushing it hard, but now you've backed off of it seemingly. Maybe it's an unfair characterization of your posts, I don't know, and I realize it's possible I'm being overly paranoid due to recency bias. I wouldn't say it's anything other than a minor suspicion at this point, but I do still stand by my overall assessment of it.

The BWT vote was a pressure vote and an attempt to slow the roll on the Long Con wagon. As of right now he's still my intended vote-recipient. But, again, we need more varied discussion, so I'm throwing it around. I'm developing reads. I hope they'll be here soon. I won't pretend to have them before they arrive.

[nutella]

Thoughts from catching up -

I'm torn on LC. Epi's references to other games are somewhat compelling; I was in those games and thus am fully aware of why Epi feels the way he does about LC, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he has to be right. Players don't always fulfill the patterns you expect across alignments. LC's reactions (especially the one after my post) were pretty over-the-top though and I can definitely see him being a caught baddie here.

At the same time, I'm torn on BWT as well. The circumstances of his info claim and its apparent misguidedness are intriguing, but I grant that it seems unlikely he would claim bad info openly if bad, so it's more likely it was just misguided/misleading false info. But his over-eager "let's all lynch LC" post was very suspicious. I've been considering voting for him but MP's post here rings pretty true to me and I'm inclined to trust his read:

BWT is being indecisive as fuck. That means he's town. If he was bad, he would force consistency.

I might look into joining Sloonei in a DDL vote; I'll look back at DDL next. Not feeling MP's and Epi's suspicion of Sloonei; I'm seeing town behavior.