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Nothing game related persay, but I think I'd rather lynch INH thinking on it. INH is an inactive replacement with a combined 0 posts and sig is an inactive with some posts. I'd prefer INH on principle.
You keep replying everything with "I'm not actually trying hard" and we'll eventually have to lynch you for not looking civ enough. Just saying.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:51 pmI didn't bring up suspicion of nutella. My post wasn't about suspecting nutella. I didn't "frame" anything, and anyone who "picked up on it" was reading it wrong.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 pmYou brought it up bruh. And I didn't like how you did it.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:47 pmWell, since you brought it up, it moves the needle two hairs from 'Town' to 'Scum' for nutella, based on the idea that a reaction that doesn't seem quite right to me evokes feelings of possible fakery.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:41 pmnutellaLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:37 pmFor whom?speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:28 pmeeegeeggggghhhhh
And do you consider this to be possibly alignment indicative?
Framing suspicion in a way that town can pick up on, but that doesn't state it directly. I don't like that.
And then nutella's post was obviously lamenting that we got a town flip rather than scum. In most games, a town flip is worst scenario. This game is different, with lynched failing almost half the time, but it's NOT GOOD, even as you said.
And then the way you presented the obversavion, making sure to place yourself as a part of 'us' and reemphasize the bright side and the town win condition.
These weak bits come together to make me feel like you're trying too hard to be the nonchalant townie and fly under the radar while casting shade on nutella.
So, no, I don't like your post. If you had said "no, not alignment indicative" I would have assumed that it was just a post for the sake of posting. But the way you framed your suspicion is sleazy and suspicious.
Yes, part of nutella's post was "obviously lamenting" that mal was town. There was nothing in my post denying that lynching a Civ is bad, or that nutella thought so.
You would prefer that a player always use the third-person "the Civs" rather than "us" unless they're Confirmed Civ?
I agree, these bits are weak. Weak as hell, I dare say!You are so way off, I'm not trying too hard at anything right now. My nonchalance is pure, natural cool, my friend. I haven't seen "under the radar" in a Mafia game since 2012, so nuh-uh... and I would not want to cast shade on the unique and colourful flower that is nutella.
tl;dr "You're way off from the get-go, dude."
I'll respond to the rest of you suckas in separate posts.
LC doesn't seem like the type who gives up that easily.
Jay would never miss a deadline, for starters.
I don't think that the scum team consists entirely of a inactives.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:58 am Hmm.. well as far as we know, there's
-Aconcagua: immune to the first attempt on their life (lynch or NK)
[-Chimborazo: could have stolen Aconcagua's ability at some point, but seems highly unlikely as Dom/Malakim would have been an unlikely nk target]
-Kilimanjaro: can make themself immune to night actions 3x/game
-Mont Blanc: can switch targets 1x/game
(-Matterhorn: secrets)
(-Olympus Mons: secrets)
...Ehhh. Some of these may have happened, but maybe we really do have scummers sleeping on the job. I could vote an inactive.
ay was replaced into MPs role as scumSloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:09 amNope. I saw some evidence that Jay was softer on sig than the other low posters, and the only time he acknowledged INH at all was in the GTH thing.
But then there's the whole "why aren't they being replaced?" argument. Dunya and malakim both subbed in for townies. Sig has been less active than sprit was and has not been replaced. INH did sub in for glorf, so I guess if we're following this logic I'd put him ahead of sig, but I'm not so sure we should follow that logic. I'm not sure we shouldn't either.
I still feel like voting for bob or maybe Long Con if we prefer to go after an active player. There does have to be at least one active scum remaining, after all.
Jay was in the game when the lack of night kills happened on 2 successive nights. Do you think Jay would have for any reason failed to miss a deadline? (especially when the deadlines were so extended?). I strongly doubt it.Quin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:58 am I've just pulled some posts that stand out.
sig dislikes the nutella wagon but doesn't give an opinion on anyone involved in it besides LC and Epi at any point. His LC talk here is just sitting on the fence.Spoiler: show
NO U.Spoiler: show
Put this here because I wanted to say that I agree with what sig's putting down re: EoD2. I don't have any inclination in reading the actual post.Spoiler: show
---
I'd lynch him. The lack of night kills means more to me than any of that ^.
Is that what you read in that post?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:15 amYou keep replying everything with "I'm not actually trying hard" and we'll eventually have to lynch you for not looking civ enough. Just saying.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:51 pmI didn't bring up suspicion of nutella. My post wasn't about suspecting nutella. I didn't "frame" anything, and anyone who "picked up on it" was reading it wrong.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 pmYou brought it up bruh. And I didn't like how you did it.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:47 pmWell, since you brought it up, it moves the needle two hairs from 'Town' to 'Scum' for nutella, based on the idea that a reaction that doesn't seem quite right to me evokes feelings of possible fakery.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:41 pmnutellaLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:37 pmFor whom?speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:28 pm
eeegeeggggghhhhh
And do you consider this to be possibly alignment indicative?
Framing suspicion in a way that town can pick up on, but that doesn't state it directly. I don't like that.
And then nutella's post was obviously lamenting that we got a town flip rather than scum. In most games, a town flip is worst scenario. This game is different, with lynched failing almost half the time, but it's NOT GOOD, even as you said.
And then the way you presented the obversavion, making sure to place yourself as a part of 'us' and reemphasize the bright side and the town win condition.
These weak bits come together to make me feel like you're trying too hard to be the nonchalant townie and fly under the radar while casting shade on nutella.
So, no, I don't like your post. If you had said "no, not alignment indicative" I would have assumed that it was just a post for the sake of posting. But the way you framed your suspicion is sleazy and suspicious.
Yes, part of nutella's post was "obviously lamenting" that mal was town. There was nothing in my post denying that lynching a Civ is bad, or that nutella thought so.
You would prefer that a player always use the third-person "the Civs" rather than "us" unless they're Confirmed Civ?
I agree, these bits are weak. Weak as hell, I dare say!
tl;dr "You're way off from the get-go, dude."
I'll respond to the rest of you suckas in separate posts.
I agree, speedchuck is full of shit.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:17 amYou know you're full of shit when Epi thinks your linguistics argument is boring.
I don't think that's a fair representation. At the time where bob placed his vote on Jay, there was someone else in the lead.Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:27 am I'd argue that the climate in the thread was very clearly anti-Jay as we approached the deadline yesterday. Your vote may have put him over the top, but I don't find that to be a tremendously convincing fact given that he was clearly the most widely-suspected player and votes were beginning to pile on him.
You literally wrote the same sentence in it.Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:42 amIs that what you read in that post?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:15 amYou keep replying everything with "I'm not actually trying hard" and we'll eventually have to lynch you for not looking civ enough. Just saying.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:51 pmI didn't bring up suspicion of nutella. My post wasn't about suspecting nutella. I didn't "frame" anything, and anyone who "picked up on it" was reading it wrong.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 pmYou brought it up bruh. And I didn't like how you did it.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:47 pmWell, since you brought it up, it moves the needle two hairs from 'Town' to 'Scum' for nutella, based on the idea that a reaction that doesn't seem quite right to me evokes feelings of possible fakery.
Framing suspicion in a way that town can pick up on, but that doesn't state it directly. I don't like that.
And then nutella's post was obviously lamenting that we got a town flip rather than scum. In most games, a town flip is worst scenario. This game is different, with lynched failing almost half the time, but it's NOT GOOD, even as you said.
And then the way you presented the obversavion, making sure to place yourself as a part of 'us' and reemphasize the bright side and the town win condition.
These weak bits come together to make me feel like you're trying too hard to be the nonchalant townie and fly under the radar while casting shade on nutella.
So, no, I don't like your post. If you had said "no, not alignment indicative" I would have assumed that it was just a post for the sake of posting. But the way you framed your suspicion is sleazy and suspicious.
Yes, part of nutella's post was "obviously lamenting" that mal was town. There was nothing in my post denying that lynching a Civ is bad, or that nutella thought so.
You would prefer that a player always use the third-person "the Civs" rather than "us" unless they're Confirmed Civ?
I agree, these bits are weak. Weak as hell, I dare say!
tl;dr "You're way off from the get-go, dude."
I'll respond to the rest of you suckas in separate posts.
again, I feel like you were being a bit pushy here. In your long Jay/Bob iso you clearly say that while bob prodded Jay on numerous occasions, there was no heavy scum read from Bob to Jay. Why did he have "every reason to vote for Jay" then? I think that's a bit of a hyperbole. Perhaps he didn't have any more valid reasons to vote for speedchuck, but he did. That doesn't mean he didn't suspect speedchuck along with everyone else who had a vote on speed at that point.Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:24 am Apologies, but I was only looking for your posts regarding Jay in that ISO. However, my questions are here are meant to be about why you specifically vote for speedchuck rather than Jay, because from what I saw you had every reason to vote for Jay but only ended up moving to him because you preferred the voters against him to the voters against speedchuck. I want to know how your thoughts developed during the day phase, if that helps.
Yeah, first thing in the morning.... scanned the post and missed that sentence.
I tried trying hard and it didn't work out, so I'm trying to take a backseat now. do you think that's a far fetch for someone 1 vote away from being in a tie?
I wasn't arguing friggin linguistics. There was nothing linguistic about my arguments.
You said you had reasons for me to be scum and Cbob town. I think we're still waiting on those?
I feel my reasons become less concrete and valid when Town DrWilgy doesn't always give heavy scum-lists like he did in Pirates, and that was more along the lines of being the exception than the rule.dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:56 am If it helps, I'd also like to state that I went over DrWilgy this morning with fresh eyes and opened some past games of his at the same time (Civ and Scum and independent).
I think outside of trying to make a case against him by ISOing him and tunneling him over some mundane reason of a lack of clear suspects (I got flashbacks for going hard on Jack), he's town actually. So I withdraw my suspicions he could be scum for now.
If anything, however, he may be our independent. But I want our independent to win with us so he's townie for now.
I'm sorry, I'm slow, but I promise I'm working on it. If for nothing else, I want a clear stance on how I feel about both of you. Clear and inductive, rather than basing it more in instinct.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:49 amYou said you had reasons for me to be scum and Cbob town. I think we're still waiting on those?
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:00 amI'm sorry, I'm slow, but I promise I'm working on it. If for nothing else, I want a clear stance on how I feel about both of you. Clear and inductive, rather than basing it more in instinct.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:49 amYou said you had reasons for me to be scum and Cbob town. I think we're still waiting on those?
It's been hard going through so many posts and trying to read through Sloonei's posts omfg. Don't envy me.
If I envied you, I'd be the one doing it. I don't even want to ISO myself. why do you think K2 is one of the most important town roles?speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:18 pm Matterhorn, K2, and Elbrus are the most powerful town roles IMO.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:48 amI wasn't arguing friggin linguistics. There was nothing linguistic about my arguments.
Me neither, I was just responding to your suspicion. I just saw this. I might have seen it before when I first subbed in, but I didn't have any reads then.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:52 am unrelated but @MovingPictures07 voting for yourself just so you can tick off the "I Voted!" box doesn't count. If you're not going to have time to read at least a couple posts and throw a semi-meaningful vote on someone, don't sign up for games at all.
@Spacedaisy @Dom @DrWilgy @Glorfindel @Mesk514 @sig come vote. and not for yourselves.
To me, most of the town roles are pretty bad. Extra votes or missing votes, Malakim's role being able to copy the higher roles if he manages to target them, etc.dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:07 amwhy do you think K2 is one of the most important town roles?speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:18 pm Matterhorn, K2, and Elbrus are the most powerful town roles IMO.
I like this post a lot. Thank you for sharing your opinion, it's enlightening to see and I see and agree with most of your points.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 amTo me, most of the town roles are pretty bad. Extra votes or missing votes, Malakim's role being able to copy the higher roles if he manages to target them, etc.dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:07 amwhy do you think K2 is one of the most important town roles?speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:18 pm Matterhorn, K2, and Elbrus are the most powerful town roles IMO.
K2 gives us an opinion that we 100% know is a town opinion, and that we can take at face value. It is as useful as the person using it can make it, disregarding other votes and random targeting. It's not a game-changer, but it's constantly useful and usable.
Stopping a lynch is useless.
Permanent BTSC is good, but the mountains have to hope they get lucky to get it.
Surviving is good, but at the point I posted this, I assumed that the survival was over. And besides, I was talking about who mafia would target. The survival isn't a role that matters until it is targeted. It doesn't threaten scum actively.
Killing a player that helped lynch you is more likely to result in 2 town death than a real vengeance against mafia.
Kenya is a vig, which is cool, but it's very easy to misdirect. It would be in my top list if it weren't for the chances downgrading over time. I'll bet it tried to kill INH or someone at some point.
Insanifying has the targeting problem, and then it's just insanifying. If you insanify mafia, it just gives them an excuse to be silent. If you insanify town . . . Insanifying should be a scum role. Really.
Blanc might be good. I don't know what it means to take a look at 3rd party. The other two roles are a switch, which is situational, and another role that inhibits the lynch, which is meh. We weren't going to lynch Epi anyway.
K2 isn't as powerful as an info role. It isn't as powerful as a reliable vig, a desperado, or a gifter of some type. But it's active, not passive, and it works without dependence on lucky targets. It provides town with a reliably honest viewpoint. I'd put it up there.
But hey, I'm weird like that.
linki: is that something you could see someone doing to their teammate? It's an easily waived... accusation? Is it even an accusation?
Well, in a sense, Everest itself has vanilla town value. When Everest dies, it's vote passes town to the next highest living mountain. So killing Everest is pointless. The vote will stay as long as town lives.
I must have misunderstood. I thought if Everest dies, it'll go to K2/next highest mountain. I had no idea if K2/next highest mountain dies as well it gets passed on again.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 amWell, in a sense, Everest itself has vanilla town value. When Everest dies, it's vote passes town to the next highest living mountain. So killing Everest is pointless. The vote will stay as long as town lives.
Which... raises some questions.
@Marmot
With town having an extra vote, will the game go to town if we get it down to 1 town 1 scum? Usually scum would overrun because they have a kill and the vote is deadlocked. But whatever townie is left would have 2 votes...
Uhhhhdunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:49 amI must have misunderstood. I thought if Everest dies, it'll go to K2/next highest mountain. I had no idea if K2/next highest mountain dies as well it gets passed on again.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 amWell, in a sense, Everest itself has vanilla town value. When Everest dies, it's vote passes town to the next highest living mountain. So killing Everest is pointless. The vote will stay as long as town lives.
Which... raises some questions.
Marmot
With town having an extra vote, will the game go to town if we get it down to 1 town 1 scum? Usually scum would overrun because they have a kill and the vote is deadlocked. But whatever townie is left would have 2 votes...
nutella/MP thing?speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am linki: is that something you could see someone doing to their teammate?
Where does the role say anything about managing to target them?speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 amTo me, most of the town roles are pretty bad. Extra votes or missing votes, Malakim's role being able to copy the higher roles if he manages to target them, etc.dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:07 amwhy do you think K2 is one of the most important town roles?speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:18 pm Matterhorn, K2, and Elbrus are the most powerful town roles IMO.
The longer that role is alive, the more dangerous it becomes.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am K2 gives us an opinion that we 100% know is a town opinion, and that we can take at face value. It is as useful as the person using it can make it, disregarding other votes and random targeting. It's not a game-changer, but it's constantly useful and usable.
Not at all.
The same comment regarding K2 applies here.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 amPermanent BTSC is good, but the mountains have to hope they get lucky to get it.
Would you consider a protector a powerful civilian role? I would. Survival roles are basically like a protector automatically gets his target right. That's even more powerful.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 amSurviving is good, but at the point I posted this, I assumed that the survival was over. And besides, I was talking about who mafia would target. The survival isn't a role that matters until it is targeted. It doesn't threaten scum actively.
So are lynches. By that thinking, we should never lynch anybody.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 amKilling a player that helped lynch you is more likely to result in 2 town death than a real vengeance against mafia.
How is it very easy to misdirect?speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am Kenya is a vig, which is cool, but it's very easy to misdirect. It would be in my top list if it weren't for the chances downgrading over time. I'll bet it tried to kill INH or someone at some point.
More or less agreed.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am Insanifying has the targeting problem, and then it's just insanifying. If you insanify mafia, it just gives them an excuse to be silent. If you insanify town . . . Insanifying should be a scum role. Really.
If anything, removing someone from the poll lets everyone else know Blanc is alive and well.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am Blanc might be good. I don't know what it means to take a look at 3rd party. The other two roles are a switch, which is situational, and another role that inhibits the lynch, which is meh. We weren't going to lynch Epi anyway.
I'm not altogether sure why you spent an entire post lamenting your perceived lack of civilian firepower.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am K2 isn't as powerful as an info role. It isn't as powerful as a reliable vig, a desperado, or a gifter of some type. But it's active, not passive, and it works without dependence on lucky targets. It provides town with a reliably honest viewpoint. I'd put it up there.
But hey, I'm weird like that.
linki: is that something you could see someone doing to their teammate? It's an easily waived... accusation? Is it even an accusation?
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:51 amI don't think that the scum team consists entirely of a inactives.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:58 am Hmm.. well as far as we know, there's
-Aconcagua: immune to the first attempt on their life (lynch or NK)
[-Chimborazo: could have stolen Aconcagua's ability at some point, but seems highly unlikely as Dom/Malakim would have been an unlikely nk target]
-Kilimanjaro: can make themself immune to night actions 3x/game
-Mont Blanc: can switch targets 1x/game
(-Matterhorn: secrets)
(-Olympus Mons: secrets)
...Ehhh. Some of these may have happened, but maybe we really do have scummers sleeping on the job. I could vote an inactive.
I'm not saying that 1 of 3 might not be inactive.
But let's absolutely not waste a day phase discussing people with no posts and actually try to discuss suspicions we have about people who we can hold accountable for their words to some degree.
I don't think that's logical.
