Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[Epignosis]

Same shit. Different יְוֹם

3J does stuff.

Everyone assumes 3J is doing stuff to make stuff happen, including the stuffed.

Epignosis implies, "3J is full of shit, and is making shit up, and should not be assumed good for it."

Stuffed still is like, "No gee. He's here to help me."

Nope.

3J and Sloonei can hang.

[Sloonei]

I think if Jay doesn't come up with a valid "tell" that made him so sure as to call me out like he did then it's definitely a bad look for him.

As things are, based on past interactions with Jay he's likely to come out and say something like "there is no tell, I was just lying to build thread discussion" or "I'm not telling you what your tell is in case I need to use it again later"

I don't think either of those are acceptable answers for this.

Jay's usual civvie MO is to scatter bricks around on day 0 and 1 in order to start building discussion and put out reads. What Jay's done here is try to throw a single large brick at me, which causes no variation in discussion at all. The only discussion happening right now is surrounding me.

The only way that tactic comes from a responsible civvie mindset is if Jay really and truly believes in whatever he thinks my tell is

This post came in after my adjective compilation, but it carries on what is my least favorite point for Kyle from his previous post, which I labeled "obtuse":

What I'm saying that if I do end up getting lynched for Jay's 'tell'...

Kyle is reducing the potential suspicion and subsequent lynch against him entirely to Jay pretending to have a Day 0 scumtell on him. That claim was bogus from the beginning, and not a single person here is suspicious of Kyle on the basis of a make-believe tell. As far as I can tell, the suspicion is derived from Kyle's reaction to having a make-believe tell pushed onto him. That's where mine comes from, anyway, and that's where the lynch heat would hypothetically come from. The way he has turned this around on Jay has looked like a shortsighted approach to the game, not one that I'd expect town Kyle to take.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Same shit. Different יְוֹם

3J does stuff.

Everyone assumes 3J is doing stuff to make stuff happen, including the stuffed.

Epignosis implies, "3J is full of shit, and is making shit up, and should not be assumed good for it."

Stuffed still is like, "No gee. He's here to help me."

Nope.

3J and Sloonei can hang.

It's "same shit different day" because it happens so much when I'm a civilian. You're full of it, go ahead and get lynched please.

[Kylemii]

Kyle, I strongly disagree with your interpretation of FZ. I think she gave a completely original reason to suspect you which was unrelated to Jay's thing.

I don't necessarily believe that original means better.

I think feeling a need to have an original but also still negative take on me seems like it could be a not good look. it's a ping at the least

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do think Kyle's response to my nonsense was an incorrect representation of the purpose it may serve (ignoring/discarding the obvious civilian motive). I read him in the civilian direction anyway on the basis of tone. I am not sure Kyle is the sort to say he "doesn't have respect for" some play being made if he isn't genuinely angry about it -- an anger I'd expect to be more civilian-driven than mafia-driven.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Y'all please tell me about Epignosis's last post.

He rightly asserts that I shouldn't be assumed good because I make stuff happen. He then parlays that into "hang Jay and Sloonei", as though "doesn't make him good" is equivalent to "makes them bad".

No thanks. I won't be needing any of that today.

[Kylemii]

I'm just tired. I don't like or respect what Jay is doing here no matter what his motive is.

I don't mean to ruin your fun Kyle. Just know that earning your respect is not always the same thing as promoting a winning game thread environment.

You're always talking about winning as if it's something important. At the end of the day we're all just internet friends who play a silly children's game online and take it way too seriously.

Regardless, I get what you were doing now and since it turns out wasn't the most shitty thing possible, I'm not really mad any more.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You're always talking about winning as if it's something important. At the end of the day we're all just internet friends who play a silly children's game online and take it way too seriously.

I don't let my tongue hang out and move my pieces at random when I break out the Checkers board. I like fun. I like winning too.

[Sloonei]

Y'all please tell me about Epignosis's last post.

He rightly asserts that I shouldn't be assumed good because I make stuff happen. He then parlays that into "hang Jay and Sloonei", as though "doesn't make him good" is equivalent to "makes them bad".

No thanks. I won't be needing any of that today.

He loses me at the last three lines, but Epi making up arguments on Day 0/1 is no more unusual than you doing it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei, your takes on non-Kyle people?

[Kylemii]

Jay's actions so far have been NAI to me. He does this every time. He's built a pattern for himself. It stands to reason that he would also do the same thing if he was mafia trying to replicate that pattern.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, your takes on non-Kyle people?

I liked FZ's post. Nutella seems like her usual self, as does Epi. Speedchuck is here but I don't know anything about him yet. Most of you have another game going on right now.

[Sloonei]

Jay's actions so far have been NAI to me. He does this every time. He's built a pattern for himself. It stands to reason that he would also do the same thing if he was mafia trying to replicate that pattern.

Agreed. However, given my negative read of you in response to him, I am inclined to read him favorably by virtue of the relationship between you two. This is not a read which can be substantiated by itself while you're both alive.

[Kylemii]

You're always talking about winning as if it's something important. At the end of the day we're all just internet friends who play a silly children's game online and take it way too seriously.

I don't let my tongue hang out and move my pieces at random when I break out the Checkers board. I like fun. I like winning too.

you shouldn't lick the checkers that's gross just use your hands

Jay do you have a read on Sloonei yet?

[Epignosis]

Y'all please tell me about Epignosis's last post.

He rightly asserts that I shouldn't be assumed good because I make stuff happen. He then parlays that into "hang Jay and Sloonei", as though "doesn't make him good" is equivalent to "makes them bad".

No thanks. I won't be needing any of that today.

This isn't a parlay.

This is a hedge.

You and Sloonei are lapdogs to each other.

Insincere

Bogus

When you two are teammates, you will maintain a significant advantage over people who blindly assume you will lead the civilians to victory.

I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay do you have a read on Sloonei yet?

Civilian. He saw the potential utility of my poop and went right to work with it. His interrogation of you looks authentic and he doesn't seem concerned about appearances with his demeanor and his reads.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When you two are teammates, you will maintain a significant advantage over people who blindly assume you will lead the civilians to victory.

I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen.

Do you suspect that we are teammates in this game right now?

[Sloonei]

Jay's actions so far have been NAI to me. He does this every time. He's built a pattern for himself. It stands to reason that he would also do the same thing if he was mafia trying to replicate that pattern.

~80 minutes earlier:

I think if Jay doesn't come up with a valid "tell" that made him so sure as to call me out like he did then it's definitely a bad look for him.

As things are, based on past interactions with Jay he's likely to come out and say something like "there is no tell, I was just lying to build thread discussion" or "I'm not telling you what your tell is in case I need to use it again later"

I don't think either of those are acceptable answers for this.

Jay's usual civvie MO is to scatter bricks around on day 0 and 1 in order to start building discussion and put out reads. What Jay's done here is try to throw a single large brick at me, which causes no variation in discussion at all. The only discussion happening right now is surrounding me.

The only way that tactic comes from a responsible civvie mindset is if Jay really and truly believes in whatever he thinks my tell is

You think this computes over here?

[Kylemii]

yeah actually

[JaggedJimmyJay]

yeah actually

His question is a good one. If what I did was "what I do every time", then that means you have to know and understand a civilian motivation that doesn't require me to have really believed what I was saying.

[Sloonei]

yeah actually

Error: wtf's kyle talking about?

[Kylemii]

he came back and actually branched off from his large brick toss with a few smaller brick tosses, it's a different tactic

[Sloonei]

he came back and actually branched off from his large brick toss with a few smaller brick tosses, it's a different tactic

But that's still "what he always does", and an hour ago you were going on about what a bad look it was for him as if it's not what he always does.

[Kylemii]

yeah actually

His question is a good one. If what I did was "what I do every time", then that means you have to know and understand a civilian motivation that doesn't require me to have really believed what I was saying.

at the time of my complaints it wasn't 'what you do every time' you threw a fake large and confident suspicion at me and then left. your usual meta is a small read "tink is good, can anyone tell me why" followed by sticking around to analyze.

it wasn't on-brand til you came back and admitted to the lie

[JaggedJimmyJay]

yeah actually

His question is a good one. If what I did was "what I do every time", then that means you have to know and understand a civilian motivation that doesn't require me to have really believed what I was saying.

at the time of my complaints it wasn't 'what you do every time' you threw a fake large and confident suspicion at me and then left. your usual meta is a small read "tink is good, can anyone tell me why" followed by sticking around to analyze.

it wasn't on-brand til you came back and admitted to the lie

The comparison I thought you were making with "always does this" was my screaming at dunya with a tone of confidence before abruptly dropping the case. That's not the only recent example.

In fact, how is "I have a town read on Tink, can anyone tell me why" any manner of brick throw, small or large?

[Epignosis]

When you two are teammates, you will maintain a significant advantage over people who blindly assume you will lead the civilians to victory.

I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen.

Do you suspect that we are teammates in this game right now?

Yes.

Anytime I see this and the like:

Jay do you have a read on Sloonei yet?

Civilian. He saw the potential utility of my poop and went right to work with it. His interrogation of you looks authentic and he doesn't seem concerned about appearances with his demeanor and his reads.

I assume.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yes.

Anytime I see this and the like:

Jay do you have a read on Sloonei yet?

Civilian. He saw the potential utility of my poop and went right to work with it. His interrogation of you looks authentic and he doesn't seem concerned about appearances with his demeanor and his reads.

I assume.

I don't believe you. You'd think we're mafia teammates in every game you play with us. You don't. Fake read. Die.

[nutella]

Yeah I don't get what Epi is saying here. Like, it's reasonable to be cautious of the possibility of Jay/Sloonei w/w, because that would be fucking scary, but it really doesn't make sense for him to assume that this is the case based on the way they have interacted so far (which is pretty much how they always interact as civs).

[Sloonei]

Jay and I have been scum partners once. It was in Street Fighter. He bussed me on Day 1 and then subbed out.

[Kylemii]

he came back and actually branched off from his large brick toss with a few smaller brick tosses, it's a different tactic

But that's still "what he always does", and an hour ago you were going on about what a bad look it was for him as if it's not what he always does.

no that's wrong.

he doesn't usually use specific lies "Kyle has an obvious tell that I learned from sc2 mafia" is a specific lie that could have gotten me lynched if he didn't come back and tell the truth.

"I think tink is civ can anyone tell me why?" vague and harmless, "I think Epignosis is bad can anyone tell me why? also vague and harmless.

"I was going on about it being a bad look" is also not very accurate.

It was an emotionally charged conditional statement. If Jay continued the way he was going and let me get lynched without admitting to the lie then that would have been a strong indicator of a non-townie minded Jay. But he didn't, so it isn't.

It's logically consistent so it literally computes.

[Kylemii]

yeah actually

His question is a good one. If what I did was "what I do every time", then that means you have to know and understand a civilian motivation that doesn't require me to have really believed what I was saying.

at the time of my complaints it wasn't 'what you do every time' you threw a fake large and confident suspicion at me and then left. your usual meta is a small read "tink is good, can anyone tell me why" followed by sticking around to analyze.

it wasn't on-brand til you came back and admitted to the lie

The comparison I thought you were making with "always does this" was my screaming at dunya with a tone of confidence before abruptly dropping the case. That's not the only recent example.

In fact, how is "I have a town read on Tink, can anyone tell me why" any manner of brick throw, small or large?

it was a metaphorical thrown object based on a false read, it doesn't matter what kind of building material it was. Maybe something soft like insulation?

[Sloonei]

he came back and actually branched off from his large brick toss with a few smaller brick tosses, it's a different tactic

But that's still "what he always does", and an hour ago you were going on about what a bad look it was for him as if it's not what he always does.

no that's wrong.

he doesn't usually use specific lies "Kyle has an obvious tell that I learned from sc2 mafia" is a specific lie that could have gotten me lynched if he didn't come back and tell the truth.

"I think tink is civ can anyone tell me why?" vague and harmless, "I think Epignosis is bad can anyone tell me why? also vague and harmless.

"I was going on about it being a bad look" is also not very accurate.

It was an emotionally charged conditional statement. If Jay continued the way he was going and let me get lynched without admitting to the lie then that would have been a strong indicator of a non-townie minded Jay. But he didn't, so it isn't.

It's logically consistent so it literally computes.

I disagree that his tactic in this game is in any way unusual and I never saw any reason to think he was gonna skate by without further comment on your "tell".

[Epignosis]

Yes.

Anytime I see this and the like:

Jay do you have a read on Sloonei yet?

Civilian. He saw the potential utility of my poop and went right to work with it. His interrogation of you looks authentic and he doesn't seem concerned about appearances with his demeanor and his reads.

I assume.

I don't believe you. You'd think we're mafia teammates in every game you play with us. You don't. Fake read. Die.

Are you the only one allowed to spew "fake reads?"

Anyway, it isn't fake.

[Epignosis]

Yeah I don't get what Epi is saying here. Like, it's reasonable to be cautious of the possibility of Jay/Sloonei w/w, because that would be fucking scary, but it really doesn't make sense for him to assume that this is the case based on the way they have interacted so far (which is pretty much how they always interact as civs).

How would you expect them to act when they are both bad together?

[Epignosis]

Jay and I have been scum partners once. It was in Street Fighter. He bussed me on Day 1 and then subbed out.

I find it hard to believe you have only been partners once.

[nutella]

Probably similarly.

[Sloonei]

Jay and I have been scum partners once. It was in Street Fighter. He bussed me on Day 1 and then subbed out.

I find it hard to believe you have only been partners once.

Me too, but here we are.

[nutella]

I just made a post of only adverbs in response to Epi.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are you the only one allowed to spew "fake reads?"

Anyway, it isn't fake.

I'm not the only one allowed to spew fake reads, but if you're going to call your fake read real then it's a moot point.

Jay and I have been scum partners once. It was in Street Fighter. He bussed me on Day 1 and then subbed out.

I find it hard to believe you have only been partners once.

It's true. That was the worst part about having to sub out of that game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How would you expect them to act when they are both bad together?

Answer your own question, and then describe how the play you've seen from us in this thread so far fits that description while failing to fit the description of the civilian-civilian Jay/Sloonei dynamic.

[Epignosis]

How would you expect them to act when they are both bad together?

Answer your own question, and then describe how the play you've seen from us in this thread so far fits that description while failing to fit the description of the civilian-civilian Jay/Sloonei dynamic.

I would expect you two to act the same way as you are acting now: Verifying each other and validating each other.

A weak civilian team is going to just go with that.

And I'll have none of that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would expect you two to act the same way as you are acting now: Verifying each other and validating each other.

A weak civilian team is going to just go with that.

And I'll have none of that.

Nope.

1. Sloonei has not validated me in this game.

2. We have cooperatively read each other as civilians as civilians on numerous occasions, which is why this fake paranoia is being expressed. You know the trend exists as it is the inspiration for this accusation, and yet you cannot substantiate the accusation in this case whatsoever beyond "if the civilians listen to you two they're doomed". It's empty bullshit and you know it.

Epignosis is my top suspect.

[Sloonei]

I would expect you two to act the same way as you are acting now: Verifying each other and validating each other.

A weak civilian team is going to just go with that.

And I'll have none of that.

Nope.

1. Sloonei has not validated me in this game.

2. We have cooperatively read each other as civilians as civilians on numerous occasions, which is why this fake paranoia is being expressed. You know the trend exists as it is the inspiration for this accusation, and yet you cannot substantiate the accusation in this case whatsoever beyond "if the civilians listen to you two they're doomed". It's empty bullshit and you know it.

Epignosis is my top suspect.

what do you think is his motivation right now?

[Kylemii]

he came back and actually branched off from his large brick toss with a few smaller brick tosses, it's a different tactic

But that's still "what he always does", and an hour ago you were going on about what a bad look it was for him as if it's not what he always does.

no that's wrong.

he doesn't usually use specific lies "Kyle has an obvious tell that I learned from sc2 mafia" is a specific lie that could have gotten me lynched if he didn't come back and tell the truth.

"I think tink is civ can anyone tell me why?" vague and harmless, "I think Epignosis is bad can anyone tell me why? also vague and harmless.

"I was going on about it being a bad look" is also not very accurate.

It was an emotionally charged conditional statement. If Jay continued the way he was going and let me get lynched without admitting to the lie then that would have been a strong indicator of a non-townie minded Jay. But he didn't, so it isn't.

It's logically consistent so it literally computes.

I disagree that his tactic in this game is in any way unusual and I never saw any reason to think he was gonna skate by without further comment on your "tell".

it's only easy for you to say that cus you weren't actually involved

getting lynched for day 1 bullshit used to be my #1 cause of death.

[Sloonei]

getting lynched for day 1 bullshit used to be my #1 cause of death.

You described my post as "unhelpful" earlier. why?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

what do you think is his motivation right now?
[/quote]

The nip the Sloonei/Jay teamwork in the bud as quickly as possible, if not merely for you and I then for other observers of you and I, because if left unchecked it usually ends in civilian victories.

[Kylemii]

getting lynched for day 1 bullshit used to be my #1 cause of death.

You described my post as "unhelpful" earlier. why?

because it was unhelpful

all you did was sharpen the focus on something that was already being focused on

is that value added?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I guess I'll ebwop it.

what do you think is his motivation right now?

The nip the Sloonei/Jay teamwork in the bud as quickly as possible, if not merely for you and I then for other observers of you and I, because if left unchecked it usually ends in civilian victories.

[Sloonei]

getting lynched for day 1 bullshit used to be my #1 cause of death.

You described my post as "unhelpful" earlier. why?

because it was unhelpful

all you did was sharpen the focus on something that was already being focused on

is that value added?

I think so. I'd not yet commented on it and had something to say, so I said it. why should we have moved away from the conversation about you so quickly?

[Sloonei]

I guess I'll ebwop it.

what do you think is his motivation right now?

The nip the Sloonei/Jay teamwork in the bud as quickly as possible, if not merely for you and I then for other observers of you and I, because if left unchecked it usually ends in civilian victories.

Does it make sense for scum Epi to make this move so boldly?