Golden's role madness matrix

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Golden
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Golden's role madness matrix

#1

Post by Golden »

Here it is! Golden's 23 by 23 role madness matrix. Scaleable from 17 through 23 players.

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Here are some probably necessary rules for use:

1) No role claiming/infodumping - the setup will essentially become open within a fairly limited time
2) Don't reveal roles as 'mafia 1' or 'mafia 2' where two mafia exists. Simply reveal them as 'mafia' and allow any discovery about multiple mafias to come from learning which world the set up is.
3) In two mafia set-ups, mafia teams will alternate kills each night.

Here are some recommended rules for use:

4) Mafia have a factional kill that must be undertaken by a specific individual each night.
5) All targeted abilities that say 'will', including factional kill, are randomised if not used. Targeted abilities that say 'may' are not randomised if not used.
6) Serial Killers kill every night
7) The mafia must have ended any path to victory for the town or another mafia team to win (which might require more than just a majority of players). Independents need to satisfy their win condition before any other faction wins.
8) Targeting the same player on two consecutive nights is not permitted.

There could possibly be some further changes - lets call this draft 1.0.

The idea is that the setup is randomly selected at the moment of game start. However, you could take any one of these worlds by choice and add a theme of your choice, and it would probably work... or add no theme, and just go for it.

TOWN ROLES
Spoiler: show
Amnesiac - You may not vote for the same person in a lynch poll on any two consecutive days.
Antique Dealer - You may target a dead player each night, and learn whether their affiliation upon flip was truthful.
Astronomer - You may effect phase structure three times in the game. You have a 1-shot ability to cause two days in a row, a 1-shot ability to cause two nights in a row, and a 1-shot ability to cause an eclipse (day and night simultaneously). Your death will trigger your unused shots in the above order.
Athlete - You begin each day at -2 votes.
Banker - You may bank your vote on any day by PM; your vote for that day will count zero (but you may still vote in the poll), and you will bank that vote for use on a future day. You may use your standard vote plus any or all banked votes on any given day (all votes on any given day go to the person you vote in the poll, they may not be split).
Blind Witness - You always target every person who dies during the night, to no effect.
Blocker - You will target someone each night, and any ability they use will have no effect that night.
Bodyguard - You will target someone each night, and if they would die that night you will die in their place.
Bomb - You will kill the person who kills you immediately upon your death (or, if you were lynched, the last person to vote for you).
Bulletproof - You are unable to die by nightkill (this ability can be blocked).
Commuter (2-shot) - You may choose to commute at night twice in the game. If you choose to commute, you become untargetable by all abilities for that night.
Cop - You will target someone each night, and learn their affiliation.
Cop (2-shot) - You may choose to target someone at night twice in the game. If you choose to target someone, you will learn their affiliation.
Coward - You will hide behind another player each night. You will not die if you are targeted for a kill, but both you and the person you hide behind will die if they are targeted for a kill.
Curser - You will curse someone each night (specific curse at the election of the host).
Dam - Only the first ability you are targeted with will be effective each night; all subsequent abilities that you are targeted with will have no effect.
Doctor - You will target someone each night, protecting them from any kill attempt made against them.
Druid - You have three targeted abilities, each of which you may use once in the game. You have a 1-shot doctor ability (if used, you will protect your target from any kill attempt made against them), a 1-shot priest ability (if used, you will reveal your target's role publicly in the thread), and a 1-shot necromancer ability (if used, you will use the ability of a revealed dead role of your choice).
Elementalist - You have four abilities relating to vote totals, each of which you may use once in the game at night. Only one ability may be used on any given night. Water - you may target someone to start the next day with the number of votes that you publicly appeared to take (in the poll) on the previous day; fire - your vote will be worth three for the following day; earth - each vote cast against you the following day will only count as half a vote; air - you may vote for three people the following day (two by PM), but all three votes must be for different people.
Hedgehog - anyone who targets you during the night will automatically begin the next day with one vote against them.
Ice Cream Man (1-shot) - Once in the game, you may target a player and deprive them of their role power, making them vanilla.
Jailer - You will jail someone each night, preventing them from both using their own power and being targeted by any other powers.
Journalist - Each night, you may send the hosts a message to be published in the thread at dawn the following day. The host may set restrictions on the content of the message.
Lawyer - You will defend someone each night, removing that player from the poll the following day.
Male Model - Each night, you will watch yourself, and learn who targeted you.
Mason - You have BTSC with the other civilian mason.
Miller - You appear to be mafia when investigated (while alive) or revealed (while alive or at death). The mafia role you are revealed as will be selected randomly from those mafia roles that are present (alive or dead) in the current game.
Necromancer - You may target a dead player whose ability has been revealed each night, and use their revealed ability. Can only target each dead role once.
Parrot - You may replicate one ability used by another player each night. You will also select a target for any targeted ability (in case you replicate a targeted ability). However, you will not be informed of what ability you have replicated or any effect they may have had. You will only replicate an ability that is actually used on that night (for example, if you copy a player with an x-shot role who does not use a shot on that night, then you will replicate nothing.)
Physicist - You will search each night for the Invisible Man, and will be told if you find him.
Pizza Chef - You may send a person a pizza each night, choosing the pizza toppings. The pizza itself has no effect. You may not expressly out yourself via pizza.
President (1-shot) - Once in the game you may, by PM, determine who is lynched (instead of the person with the most votes).
Priest (1-shot) - Once in the game, you may target a player at night and reveal that players role publicly in the thread at dawn.
Redirector - You will target two players each night; the ability of the first player will be used on the second player (instead of the first player's target).
Reloader - You will target a player each night, and if they have a power that is x-shot and they have consumed at least one shot, you will reload a single shot of that target's power (if the target has multiple x-shot powers, the first power used will be reloaded). This ability will have no effect on any player with an x-shot ability who has not yet used any shot. You may only target each player once.
Reseller - You will target a player each night and give them an additional vote to use for the following day (that additional vote will be cast by PM and may be for the person that the player publicly votes for or a different person).
Scrutineer (2-shot) - Twice in the game at night, you may choose four people, and only those four people will appear on the lynch poll on the following day.
Shapeshifter - You begin as a vanilla civilian, but at any point you may choose to permanently take on the role of a dead player by sending a PM to the host. Your power will be selected randomly from all dead players (including unrevealed and revealed roles) after the completion of the phase in which you send the PM. You will not change affiliation or win condition, even if you obtain a role from another affiliation. If your ability is revealed after you have shapeshifted, you will appear as your new role.
Silencer - You will select a player each night. That player will be silenced and unable to post the following day.
Snitch - You will search each night for the Don, and will be told if you find him.
Spy - You will poison someone each night. There is an equal chance that they will be silenced, blocked, or killed.
Supatownie - You are a vanilla civilian, but you must be nightkilled to win.
Survivalist (1-shot) - You will survive the first attempt on your life, however it may occur.
Telephone (3-shot) - Three times in the game, you may select a person at night that you would like to have BTSC with. You will have BTSC with them for the following day phase.
Telephone (1-shot) - Once in the game, you may select a person at night that you would like to have BTSC with. You will have BTSC with them for the following day phase.
Time Traveller - You will select a player each night, and delay the effect of any ability used by that player by a full phase (if it is used during a day phase, it will take effect on the subsequent day phase. If it is used during a night phase, it will take effect on the subsequent night phase). For the purpose of any tracking abilities, they will track abilities when they are used rather than when they take effect.
Tortured Soul - You are a vanilla civilian while alive. You may continue to talk in the thread on topic after death (but not vote).
Tracker - You will select a player to track each night. You will learn who (if anyone) that player targeted with any ability they have.
Vigilante (1-shot) - Once in the game, you may target another player at night and kill them.
Watcher - You will select a player to watch each night. You will learn who (if anyone) targeted that player with an ability that night. You are unable to watch yourself.

MAFIA ROLES
Spoiler: show
Astronomer - You may effect phase structure three times in the game. You have a 1-shot ability to cause two days in a row, a 1-shot ability to cause two nights in a row, and a 1-shot ability to cause an eclipse (day and night simultaneously). Your death will trigger your unused shots in the above order.
Athlete - You begin each day at -2 votes.
Banker - You may bank your vote on any day by PM; your vote for that day will count zero (but you may still vote in the poll), and you will bank that vote for use on a future day. You may use your standard vote plus any or all banked votes on any given day (all votes on any given day go to the person you vote in the poll, they may not be split).
Blocker - You will target someone each night, and their ability will have no effect that night.
Bus Driver - You will target two players each night. If both of those players are actively targeting someone, their targets will be switched.
Curser - You will curse someone each night (specific curse at the election of the host).
Don - Abilities that can learn affiliation will be told you are a civilian if they target you.
Forger (1-shot) - You may choose one person to appear as an alignment of your choice upon any public reveal (but not upon investigation). You may select a person at the start of the game and change this person at any time except during the last hour of a phase, up until one person has a forged role publicly revealed, at which point your shot is consumed. The role they are revealed as will be selected randomly from roles of the relevant alignment that are present (alive or dead) in the current game.
Ice Cream Man (1-shot) - Once in the game, you may target a player and deprive them of their role power, making them vanilla.
Invisible Man - Abilities that can learn who players target are unable to see you when you target someone for a kill (this includes roles such as the watcher, tracker and male model).
Janitor (1-shot) - Once in the game, you may choose a player at night. That player's role will not be revealed upon their death.
Necromancer - You may target a dead player whose ability has been revealed each night, and use their revealed ability. You can only target each dead role once.
Politician - You are only able to be lynched if you receive a plurality (but not an outright majority) of all lynch votes cast.
Role Cop (2-shot) - Twice in the game at night, you may target a player and learn their role (but not their affiliation).
Role Cop (1-shot) - Once in the game at night, you may target a player and learn their role (but not their affiliation).
Scrutineer (2-shot) - Twice in the game at night, you may choose four people, and only those four people will appear on the lynch poll on the following day.
Shapeshifter - You begin as a vanilla mafioso, but at any point you may choose to permanently take on the role of a dead player by sending a PM to the host. Your power will be selected randomly from all dead players (including unrevealed and revealed roles) after the completion of the phase in which you send the PM. You will not change affiliation or win condition, even if you obtain a role from another affiliation. If your ability is revealed after you have shapeshifted, you will appear as your new role.
Squid (1-shot) - Once in the game at night, you may determine that there will be no public poll on the following day, forcing all players to vote by PM. Players may also not use voting tags in the thread, but they may claim who they are voting for in the thread.
Surgeon - You may make yourself appear to be any role from the matrix when your role is publicly revealed upon your death.
Survivalist (1-shot) - You will survive the first attempt on your life, however it may occur.
Telephone (1-shot) - Once in the game, you may select a person at night that you would like to have BTSC with. You will have BTSC with them for the following day phase.
Thief - You may steal one ability held by another player each night, and use it. You will also select a target for any targeted ability (in case you steal a targeted ability). However, you will not be informed of what role you have stolen or any effect they may have had. You will only steal an ability that is actually used on that night (for example, if you steal from a player who has an x-shot role, but who does not use a shot on that night, then you will steal nothing). If you steal from a player who uses more than one ability, the ability you steal will be chosen randomly.
Tracker - You will select a player to track each night. You will learn who (if anyone) that player targeted with any ability they have.
Watcher - You will select a player to watch each night. You will learn who (if anyone) targeted that player with an ability that night. You are unable to watch yourself.

INDEPENDENT ROLES
Spoiler: show
Billionaire - You will buy a player off each night, preventing that player's power effecting you for the rest of the game (including kills). You must survive to win.
Cult Leader - Every even night, you recruit someone to your cult. They gain BTSC with all living members of the cult, and their win condition changes to win only if the cult wins. Cult members maintain any role powers that they had before being a member of the cult, other than kills. The game ends and all cult members win if the number of living cult members outnumbers the number of other living players in the game. The cult leader does not need to be alive for this win condition to be met. Recruitment by a cult leader cult will be blocked by anything that prevents kills (eg, it will burn a survivalist's shot), as well as standard blocking abilities.
Darkness - You will remove one person's win condition each night, which they will not get back unless Darkness dies. You will win (and all other players will lose) if all other living players are suffering from the Darkness at any time.
Gambler - You must pick a faction on night 2; you will only win if that faction also wins.
Hypnotist - Each night, you will give one player the name of another player that they will then need dead to win (along with any other win condition they may have). You may only target each player once. You must survive to win.
Jester - You have no role power. You must be lynched to win.
Serial Killer - You may kill each night. You must be the last person alive to win.
Shapeshifter - You begin as a vanilla independent, but at any point you may choose to permanently take on the role of a dead player by sending a PM to the host. Your power will be selected randomly from all dead players (including unrevealed and revealed roles) after the completion of the phase in which you send the PM. You will not change affiliation or win condition, even if you obtain a role from another affiliation. If your ability is revealed after you have shapeshifted, you will appear as your new role. You must survive to win.
Stalker - You will choose a player during the first night phase of the game by PM to the hosts. That player must be dead at game end in order for you to win. You must also survive to win.
Last edited by Golden on Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:41 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#2

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Voodoo type roles like Rumplestiltskin in Grimms mafia that curse players who use certain words/phrases.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#3

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Olivia Dunham- (Secret Role: You are Olivia Dunham. During the course of the game you may stay awake for two nights. If you stay awake, you will not be night killed or affected by Pattern Events. In addition, on nights that you do not stay awake, you will search for either Peter Bishop, John Scott, or The Observer. If you find Peter Bishop, you will protect him for two nights. If you find John Scott, you will have to kill one person. If you find the Observer, you will stop the use of Pattern Abilities for two nights. Also, you will gain these abilities if one or more of the people you are searching for are killed. If you successfully find all three of these men, you will permanently gain the ability to kill, investigate, or protect one person every night. You may not kill John Scott.)
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#4

Post by Sloonei »

DharmaHelper wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:26 pm Olivia Dunham- (Secret Role: You are Olivia Dunham. During the course of the game you may stay awake for two nights. If you stay awake, you will not be night killed or affected by Pattern Events. In addition, on nights that you do not stay awake, you will search for either Peter Bishop, John Scott, or The Observer. If you find Peter Bishop, you will protect him for two nights. If you find John Scott, you will have to kill one person. If you find the Observer, you will stop the use of Pattern Abilities for two nights. Also, you will gain these abilities if one or more of the people you are searching for are killed. If you successfully find all three of these men, you will permanently gain the ability to kill, investigate, or protect one person every night. You may not kill John Scott.)
I got like halfway through designing a Fringe game a couple years ago and then never finished.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#5

Post by DharmaHelper »

Sloonei wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:58 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:26 pm Olivia Dunham- (Secret Role: You are Olivia Dunham. During the course of the game you may stay awake for two nights. If you stay awake, you will not be night killed or affected by Pattern Events. In addition, on nights that you do not stay awake, you will search for either Peter Bishop, John Scott, or The Observer. If you find Peter Bishop, you will protect him for two nights. If you find John Scott, you will have to kill one person. If you find the Observer, you will stop the use of Pattern Abilities for two nights. Also, you will gain these abilities if one or more of the people you are searching for are killed. If you successfully find all three of these men, you will permanently gain the ability to kill, investigate, or protect one person every night. You may not kill John Scott.)
I got like halfway through designing a Fringe game a couple years ago and then never finished.
If you can manage to read it, the first game I ever hosted and wrote with my brother is here http://www.spoilertv.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 2643895ff0

Feel free to use those ideas, or if you have a question, PM me. Or if you don't care, just enjoy how awesome I was at writing games

Edited to add:

In particular I'm proud of the way Aces and I handled "vanilla" roles like the FBI Agents and Lab Assistants. giving them a rotating, random pool of powers to use was clever and inventive.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#6

Post by Sloonei »

DharmaHelper wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:58 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:26 pm Olivia Dunham- (Secret Role: You are Olivia Dunham. During the course of the game you may stay awake for two nights. If you stay awake, you will not be night killed or affected by Pattern Events. In addition, on nights that you do not stay awake, you will search for either Peter Bishop, John Scott, or The Observer. If you find Peter Bishop, you will protect him for two nights. If you find John Scott, you will have to kill one person. If you find the Observer, you will stop the use of Pattern Abilities for two nights. Also, you will gain these abilities if one or more of the people you are searching for are killed. If you successfully find all three of these men, you will permanently gain the ability to kill, investigate, or protect one person every night. You may not kill John Scott.)
I got like halfway through designing a Fringe game a couple years ago and then never finished.
If you can manage to read it, the first game I ever hosted and wrote with my brother is here http://www.spoilertv.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 2643895ff0

Feel free to use those ideas, or if you have a question, PM me. Or if you don't care, just enjoy how awesome I was at writing games

Edited to add:

In particular I'm proud of the way Aces and I handled "vanilla" roles like the FBI Agents and Lab Assistants. giving them a rotating, random pool of powers to use was clever and inventive.
I may use this to kickstart my interest in finishing the game, thank you. I've been meaning to complete one of my setups for a Full Game queue since I joined the syndicate but i'm much too lazy for that.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#7

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wow yikes 10 years ago
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#8

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treestump
Lunalee wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 amQuin's ISO is full of posts that are actually trying to be helpful to the game. This doesn't look like town Quin.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#9

Post by Tangrowth »

Okay, this may be the greatest idea ever.

I'll see what I can dig up sometime to contribute too.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#10

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M Plus 7 wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:04 pm Okay, this may be the greatest idea ever.

I'll see what I can dig up sometime to contribute too.
Wow cool new name way better than the old one and definitely not lame.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#11

Post by Tangrowth »

DharmaHelper wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:15 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:04 pm Okay, this may be the greatest idea ever.

I'll see what I can dig up sometime to contribute too.
Wow cool new name way better than the old one and definitely not lame.
Thanks, I think? :p
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#12

Post by Tangrowth »

Damn DH, speaking of Aces, you and he should co-host a game again one of these days. That'd be amazing.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#13

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M Plus 7 wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:33 pm Damn DH, speaking of Aces, you and he should co-host a game again one of these days. That'd be amazing.
You think *I'm* difficult to wrest from retirement, try Aces. :haha:
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#14

Post by Tangrowth »

DharmaHelper wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:48 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:33 pm Damn DH, speaking of Aces, you and he should co-host a game again one of these days. That'd be amazing.
You think *I'm* difficult to wrest from retirement, try Aces. :haha:
:sigh:
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#15

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The matrix is filling up... if you have grand ideas, share them soon!
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#16

Post by Quin »

Golden wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:26 am The matrix is filling up... if you have grand ideas, share them soon!
I once hosted a game where players bought powers with currency. That theme could probably be adapted into a single role.
Lunalee wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 amQuin's ISO is full of posts that are actually trying to be helpful to the game. This doesn't look like town Quin.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#17

Post by S~V~S »

Quin wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:38 am
Golden wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:26 am The matrix is filling up... if you have grand ideas, share them soon!
I once hosted a game where players bought powers with currency. That theme could probably be adapted into a single role.
I had a game with a similar mechanic. Players got tickets, like in skeeball ( it was a Dogma theme), and bought extra votes, protections, one shots. It was a fun mechanic.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#18

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Mr. Duponte - You are Mr. Duponte, International con-man and thief. If you are detained, attacked, tracked, or otherwise targeted, you will weasel your way out and another person will be targeted. That person, however, will not receive all of the effects you would originally be targeted by. They will only be affected by the first action to target yourself. If you are one of the last three remaining townsfolk, this ability will no longer work for night kills.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#19

Post by Dragon D. Luffy »

The 13 role from CC123 :shifty:
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#20

Post by Dragon D. Luffy »

(just kidding don't add that. plz)
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#21

Post by Golden »

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:39 am The 13 role from CC123 :shifty:
I've added something far worse than that :feb:

Just ask Long Con about the Darkness.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#22

Post by Tangrowth »

Golden wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:40 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:39 am The 13 role from CC123 :shifty:
I've added something far worse than that :feb:

Just ask Long Con about the Darkness.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#23

Post by Golden »

Update:

I have enough independent roles and also enough mafia roles and strong town roles (although if you still have any ideas, fire away - if they're better than what I've got, I'll kick something out).

What I really need are moderate or weak town roles that are of some sort of interest, as every setup needs a ton of these and I don't want too many of these plainer roles to be in too many setups. One of the tough things about such roles is finding ones that are interesting to play (by necessity, for balance, there are always roles that are only one step from vanilla). At least a wide range of variance within the matrix would provide something that played somewhat differently each time (the last thing I want is for every set up to basically feel the same).

What I'm looking for are roles that either do provide a player with some kind of tactical decision, roles that by their very nature and existence force others to think about how to deal with them tactically, or roles that are just plain fun.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#24

Post by S~V~S »

I like jailers, they are fun, they can be used tactically as protection for civs, taking them off the poll and providing a civ BTS network if done carefully; or if a day and night jailer, stopping night actions of people you suspect. There is a lot of utility in a jailer.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#25

Post by DharmaHelper »

Golden wrote: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:58 am Update:

I have enough independent roles and also enough mafia roles and strong town roles (although if you still have any ideas, fire away - if they're better than what I've got, I'll kick something out).

What I really need are moderate or weak town roles that are of some sort of interest, as every setup needs a ton of these and I don't want too many of these plainer roles to be in too many setups. One of the tough things about such roles is finding ones that are interesting to play (by necessity, for balance, there are always roles that are only one step from vanilla). At least a wide range of variance within the matrix would provide something that played somewhat differently each time (the last thing I want is for every set up to basically feel the same).

What I'm looking for are roles that either do provide a player with some kind of tactical decision, roles that by their very nature and existence force others to think about how to deal with them tactically, or roles that are just plain fun.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#26

Post by S~V~S »

[mention]Golden[/mention] < Mooby the King of the Underworld :D

You were so awesome!
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#27

Post by Golden »

[mention]Long Con[/mention] get in here.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#28

Post by Long Con »

Hey yo what's up?
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#29

Post by Long Con »

Karma Chameleon - Chooses a target (Player X) each night to emulate. Attempts to target the Player X will instead target the Karma Chameleon. The Karma Chameleon will appear to be the Player X's role and alignment to info roles. The Karma Chameleon is immune to direct targeting when emulating a target.

The Hunger - Each night, inflicts a target with the Hunger. This forces the target to pursue a player's death by any means. If the player is not dead within two phases, The Hunger kills their target. If any other player catches on that the target is being manipulated by The Hunger, The Hunger kills their target.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#30

Post by Golden »

First cut of roles above. Many of them are adapted from your suggestions, so thanks for them!

Please critique, talk balance concerns with specific roles, proceed to tell me if you think something is too boring etc. Many of the more boring roles are designed to balance the powerful ones, so keep that in mind.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#31

Post by Golden »

Matrix 1.0 complete
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#32

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

Karma Chaneleon needs a better name.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#33

Post by Long Con »

Has been known just as The Chameleon in the past, Karma's just the orig name.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#34

Post by Long Con »

Astronomer.. .day and night simultaneously... what would happen if a whole game was that way?
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#35

Post by Golden »

Long Con wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:50 pm Astronomer.. .day and night simultaneously... what would happen if a whole game was that way?
Why don’t you design a game that way and find out? :p
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#36

Post by Long Con »

Golden wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:15 pm
Long Con wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:50 pm Astronomer.. .day and night simultaneously... what would happen if a whole game was that way?
Why don’t you design a game that way and find out? :p
I could do A World Asunder that way, just have movements, votes, and night powers all happening in one 48-hour phase.

I guess voting tides would affect nightkill submissions. Are there abilities and powers that would be changed or negated by this?
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#37

Post by Golden »

Long Con wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:38 pmAre there abilities and powers that would be changed or negated by this?
I don't expect there to be, but it's one of the questions I'll need to ask as I refine the matrix. To me the obvious wrinkle is the one you mention where things like kills are influenced by timings and the way the lynch develops. There is a risk that the lynch and nightkill target could be the same (for instance, if you had a lynch switcher, which I don't believe I ended up including in the matrix). If you start thinking about it, let me know what you find.

The idea actually came out of your Elementalist mafia. A lto of people's suggestions in this thread have manifested themselves in different ways - roles like the Dam & the Banker are two off the top of my head that come directly from the thread suggestions. The Telephone, too.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#38

Post by Long Con »

That's cool, the Banker is very much like an item I have in A World Asunder: Honey Pot - The wielder of the Honey Pot can store the value of a vote inside the pot, making a seeming vote worth zero. The vote can be released during any Day phase, at which time a public announcement will be made that a player has an extra vote on them.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#39

Post by Epignosis »

Hey, don't forget the bartender. :beer:
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#40

Post by Golden »

Epignosis wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:29 pm Hey, don't forget the bartender. :beer:
Describe
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#41

Post by Epignosis »

Golden wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:23 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:29 pm Hey, don't forget the bartender. :beer:
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It's a role I made up for Roger Rabbit.

The bartender serves a drink to anyone, but that drink does something different to each role, and the bartender knows what will happen.

This made the bartender something of a role checker, but there were drawbacks, since certain civilians had negative effects from the drink. In one such case, death. So whom to serve became a very important choice.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#42

Post by Golden »

Oh, yeah. I wanted to include roles like that, but I mostly reduced roles that required the hosts to do something more than just take the role list and run. The one exception is the curser where I didn't define a specific curse, but I intended to include examples.

Possibly, I could actually define the impact the bartender has on each other role it can possibly interact with... that would be quite a bit of work though. Let me muse on it. If I did that, would you be in for assisting?

I think it would be quite a strong role on the whole. I might consider replacing the 'bulletproof' role with it, as having a bulletproof role leads to balance implications that I haven't quite figured out how to manage effectively in matrix form.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#43

Post by Epignosis »

Golden wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:31 pm Oh, yeah. I wanted to include roles like that, but I mostly reduced roles that required the hosts to do something more than just take the role list and run. The one exception is the curser where I didn't define a specific curse, but I intended to include examples.

Possibly, I could actually define the impact the bartender has on each other role it can possibly interact with... that would be quite a bit of work though. Let me muse on it. If I did that, would you be in for assisting?

I think it would be quite a strong role on the whole. I might consider replacing the 'bulletproof' role with it, as having a bulletproof role leads to balance implications that I haven't quite figured out how to manage effectively in matrix form.
It is a strong role, but it's balanced by potentially harming or killing civilians. It's good for theme-based games in which you can come up with effects that make sense for each role. It was fun. The best Roger Rabbit role was Droopy though, who got the entire mafia team to out themselves in the thread.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#44

Post by Golden »

Epignosis wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:34 pm
Golden wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:31 pm Oh, yeah. I wanted to include roles like that, but I mostly reduced roles that required the hosts to do something more than just take the role list and run. The one exception is the curser where I didn't define a specific curse, but I intended to include examples.

Possibly, I could actually define the impact the bartender has on each other role it can possibly interact with... that would be quite a bit of work though. Let me muse on it. If I did that, would you be in for assisting?

I think it would be quite a strong role on the whole. I might consider replacing the 'bulletproof' role with it, as having a bulletproof role leads to balance implications that I haven't quite figured out how to manage effectively in matrix form.
It is a strong role, but it's balanced by potentially harming or killing civilians. It's good for theme-based games in which you can come up with effects that make sense for each role. It was fun. The best Roger Rabbit role was Droopy though, who got the entire mafia team to out themselves in the thread.
Droopy would be too imbalanced for my matrix, but every time I think of that game I miss Canuck. She played that role so well.

I also remember that I got a vowel curse on a weekend where I was on the road and could only use my wife's phone with autocorrect on... :disappoint:

I say it's a strong role in that I have specifically balanced the matrix around roles being 'strong' 'moderate' and 'weak', so I think the correct role to replace would be one from the 'strong' list. Bulletproof is a great one to replace because not only is it proving hard to balance, it's also relatively boring.

So you'd be in for helping me then? All I'd need to do is slot it in and then define a list of roles needing interactions.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#45

Post by Epignosis »

I honestly don't know what you're doing except making a big damn matrix. A bartender role probably isn't for that sort of thing. I just thought I'd suggest it in case you wanted to use it.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#46

Post by Golden »

Epignosis wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:00 pm I honestly don't know what you're doing except making a big damn matrix. A bartender role probably isn't for that sort of thing. I just thought I'd suggest it in case you wanted to use it.
No, I think it might be. I'm going to see if I can make it work.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#47

Post by Long Con »

BR and I have employed a few bartender roles since Roger Rabbit... one of BR's favourite roles.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#48

Post by Golden »

Question - how would people ordinarily expect a Cult Leader role to work?
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#49

Post by S~V~S »

I had a cultleader in American Gods. He was required to recruit one from every group before he could recruit a second in any group. He himself was immune to night actions, but could only win if the cult outnumbered the rest of the players. If his recruit failed, he was not told why. Protections failed his recruit, blocks, and being a member of an affiliation he had already recruited from failed as well.
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Re: Golden's role madness matrix

#50

Post by S~V~S »

I had a cultleader in American Gods. He was required to recruit one from every group before he could recruit a second in any group. He himself was immune to night actions, if anyone targeted him they were insanified. He could only win if the cult outnumbered the rest of the players. If his recruit failed, he was not told why. Protections failed his recruit, blocks, and being a member of an affiliation he had already recruited from failed as well. There were a few roles that could not be recruited as well.

He was basically a Cthulhu role mixed with a traditional Cultist, minus the mason or shrink visit, the insanity was just for one phase. :workit:

Cthulhu
Anyone who visits the Cthulhu goes mad and speaks only gibberish during the day.
Madness can be cured by a shrink visit or being recruited to a cult.
Cthulhu dies if visited by masons.
Wins only if the cults win.

Cultist
Can choose someone at night to recruit into the cult.
Any cult member visited by mason at night will die.
If the cult leader is killed, all cult members will die.
Wins if cultists outnumber everyone during the day.
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