The Syndicate

I'll look at how the leetic/Jack DDL suspicion played out in the thread [mention]novaselinenever[/mention] tomorrow morning when I look at speed.

Sounds good!

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 pm It’s probably just Speed anyway. He admitted my behavior isn’t like SHP but his case is that I’m bussing just like SHP.

Reasons to scumread Jack:

-Juliets kill (jack is like alternate universe me, and I'd have done that [yes I know I might get lynched for saying this])
-'Actually' tell
-Full DDL suspicion doesn't come until the day lingers on the two of them for a long time
-Most of the rest of the game is cleared on either not knowing the number of scum or having a plausible role or just being sexy like Nova

The case has never been that you're bussing like SHP.
Just that you're bussing.

That said, I'm at like 45% confidence, and it looks likely that D2 and D3 will be speed and jack lynches in some order. Maybe if we lynch you first the game will end??

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:23 pm Jack didn't really have a DDL's case until very late. He highjacked Leetic's remark and DDL's own suspicion of him.

DDL was an already popular baddie read.

Leetic’s remarks were that DDL’s suspicion of me was fake and the Jack wagon grew with no resistance so DDL was scum and I was town.

So okay, give me no credit for catching DDL. Give me credit for DDL faking a case on me.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:24 pm "Pretend vote" on DDL

Poll wasn’t open yet.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 pm It’s probably just Speed anyway. He admitted my behavior isn’t like SHP but his case is that I’m bussing just like SHP.

Reasons to scumread Jack:

-Juliets kill (jack is like alternate universe me, and I'd have done that [yes I know I might get lynched for saying this])
-'Actually' tell
-Full DDL suspicion doesn't come until the day lingers on the two of them for a long time
-Most of the rest of the game is cleared on either not knowing the number of scum or having a plausible role or just being sexy like Nova

The case has never been that you're bussing like SHP.
Just that you're bussing.

That said, I'm at like 45% confidence, and it looks likely that D2 and D3 will be speed and jack lynches in some order. Maybe if we lynch you first the game will end??

-Sabie kill, you mean? This is wifom but I wouldn’t have killed Sabie. I’d probably have killed Luna. She kept trying to lynch me in Flags even after I was mechanically confirmed. DDL’s treatment of her makes her look taf. She’s never going to give me credit for bussing DDL. Or maybe Leetic, who looked good after the DDL lynch and hinted PR.

But thanks for admitting you would kill Sabie as mafia.

-Actually tell is bullshit because the idea is that I was trying to discredit DDL and Juliets as fake or ridiculous...but you’re also saying I’m buddies with DDL.

A refresher on the nonsense you’re throwing at the wall, hoping it will stick. Btw, this came after both Leetic and I had pointed out DDL’s suspicion of me was fake and I was the counterwagon to the DDL lynch.
-This is false. I laid out my case on page 3. I voted second for DDL. My case came 28 posts after DDL voted for me and 14 posts after the first DDL vote from Leetic. There was no “lingering.”

-Okay. Also a reason to suspect you.

-But it is. It’s all over the thread, especially from you.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:27 pm I was your first scumread in SHP. Your second post in that game was discrediting a (flimsy) townread of me.

I have no doubts that you would cut DDL's throat and toss his corpse under the bus if things started looking even slightly bad.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:24 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:19 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:15 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:33 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:29 am Acts like I’m going to kill him for suspecting me makes it look like he knows I’m town.

Explain this.

Cause why would I kill you if I was scum? You look worse than I do. I’d need to mislynch you.

First off I take offense to that. You look plenty bad.

Secondly I still don't know how that makes me look like I know you're town.

Tell me why DDL was lynched.

Because you distanced from him early like you do in every game and then LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE happened all day. Which you complained about. It left you and DDL as the only remaining points of interest.

I was a scummate of yours in SHP. I'm not giving you any credit for this lynch.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm @sabie12 I could see DDL and Jack as teammates. Jack is super good at bussing for town cred after all.

You guys sound poor

Well it’s only because I spent my allowance on cyanide.

Development of the DDL read:

9:57 pm March 30 -

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm DDL looks like he's being careful. But maybe that's because he's only posted once.

9:57 pm March 30 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

12:24 pm March 31 -

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:24 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

Agreed.

3:02 pm March 31 - DDL's case against Jack re: random voting

7:20 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:20 pm Jack and DDL's argument has to be the most contrived thing I've seen in a while

7:24 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

8:22 pm March 31 -

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:22 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

I'm not so sure I like this, I've seen many people call others out for early game joke votes and they turn out scum a surprising amount of time. [VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

7:37 am April 1 -

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

Oh shit it’s SHP all over again. Better bus DDL.

But seriously this post below? It comes from a wolf.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

Leetic is right. This is a bad reason to vote that is typical of wolves.

Townies do vote players they don’t actually suspect in rvs. Townies don’t vote players with intent to lynch for doing so. I’ve never seen DDL hate on early semirandom voting with this kind of certainty before. He’s faking, here.

Ftr, my vote on Mac was not random but also I didn’t scumread him. Out of the players who had posted at the time, I had (however flimsy) some reason to townread most of them but no reason to townread Mac. So I voted there to see what would happen and what happened was DDL got caught being scummy.

I never said D1 was useless.

[VOTE: DDL] aubergine

So, I do agree that Jack came in after the suspicion of DDL was established by nova and leetic (and even Luna had a post in there) which means the thing I gave him credit for, the DDL case, was not correct.

I have read through speed and I will do so again today because I didn't see much to push him into my good or bad reads but at this point I think Jack looks worse so voting now [VOTE: Jack] aubergine.

lynch goes down today and I'm having second thoughts. What makes Jack scum instead of Speed?

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:13 am lynch goes down today and I'm having second thoughts. What makes Jack scum instead of Speed?

Luna, could you share with me what you are seeing in speed's case that makes him bad or worse than Jack? I give Jack the edge mostly because he seems to be taking credit for DDL when in reality, he only jumped on it after others (including you) brought up the suspicion according to my reading of how the DDL suspicion developed (my earlier post). But I'm still listening to other cases.

Even if you lynch me, make sure Mac gives his item to a suspect.

That way the mafia has to kill within the POE (including Mac) to prevent Mac from being moved out of the POE. It's like a free lynch or cop result.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:09 am Development of the DDL read:

9:57 pm March 30 -

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm DDL looks like he's being careful. But maybe that's because he's only posted once.

9:57 pm March 30 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

12:24 pm March 31 -

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:24 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

Agreed.

3:02 pm March 31 - DDL's case against Jack re: random voting

7:20 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:20 pm Jack and DDL's argument has to be the most contrived thing I've seen in a while

7:24 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

8:22 pm March 31 -

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:22 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

I'm not so sure I like this, I've seen many people call others out for early game joke votes and they turn out scum a surprising amount of time. [VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

7:37 am April 1 -

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

Oh shit it’s SHP all over again. Better bus DDL.

But seriously this post below? It comes from a wolf.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

Leetic is right. This is a bad reason to vote that is typical of wolves.

Townies do vote players they don’t actually suspect in rvs. Townies don’t vote players with intent to lynch for doing so. I’ve never seen DDL hate on early semirandom voting with this kind of certainty before. He’s faking, here.

Ftr, my vote on Mac was not random but also I didn’t scumread him. Out of the players who had posted at the time, I had (however flimsy) some reason to townread most of them but no reason to townread Mac. So I voted there to see what would happen and what happened was DDL got caught being scummy.

I never said D1 was useless.

[VOTE: DDL] aubergine

So, I do agree that Jack came in after the suspicion of DDL was established by nova and leetic (and even Luna had a post in there) which means the thing I gave him credit for, the DDL case, was not correct.

I have read through speed and I will do so again today because I didn't see much to push him into my good or bad reads but at this point I think Jack looks worse so voting now [VOTE: Jack] aubergine.

What about this makes me bad?

Do you not see the logical inconsistencies in Speed's case against me?

IE actually tell only working if DDL was town?

Why the hell does DDL go after his partner for random voting?

It's Speed. 100% certain.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:15 am Why the hell does DDL go after his partner for random voting?

Because who gets lynched for random voting? If this were just an aside and if the day had moved on or had ANYTHING ELSE happen, the vote would only have been an aside that 'proved' you two aren't aligned. Which you reinforced with your response.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:17 am It's Speed. 100% certain.

I'm not going to go into meltdown mode if I get lynched today. My thoughts are in the thread, and I'm going to feel like crap if I'm wrong, but it is what it is. I'm somewhat curious as to how genuine Jack's reaction would be when I flip as town.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:29 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:15 am Why the hell does DDL go after his partner for random voting?

Because who gets lynched for random voting? If this were just an aside and if the day had moved on or had ANYTHING ELSE happen, the vote would only have been an aside that 'proved' you two aren't aligned. Which you reinforced with your response.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:17 am It's Speed. 100% certain.

I'm not going to go into meltdown mode if I get lynched today. My thoughts are in the thread, and I'm going to feel like crap if I'm wrong, but it is what it is. I'm somewhat curious as to how genuine Jack's reaction would be when I flip as town.

It'll be like



and if I get lynched it'll be like

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:53 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:13 am lynch goes down today and I'm having second thoughts. What makes Jack scum instead of Speed?

Luna, could you share with me what you are seeing in speed's case that makes him bad or worse than Jack? I give Jack the edge mostly because he seems to be taking credit for DDL when in reality, he only jumped on it after others (including you) brought up the suspicion according to my reading of how the DDL suspicion developed (my earlier post). But I'm still listening to other cases.

I'm just not seeing a strong "town speed" this game. I should go look closer at his posts to actually point to anything specific.

But just think, if we lynch Speed and I'm right, it'll be like this.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:36 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:29 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:15 am Why the hell does DDL go after his partner for random voting?

Because who gets lynched for random voting? If this were just an aside and if the day had moved on or had ANYTHING ELSE happen, the vote would only have been an aside that 'proved' you two aren't aligned. Which you reinforced with your response.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:17 am It's Speed. 100% certain.

I'm not going to go into meltdown mode if I get lynched today. My thoughts are in the thread, and I'm going to feel like crap if I'm wrong, but it is what it is. I'm somewhat curious as to how genuine Jack's reaction would be when I flip as town.

It'll be like



and if I get lynched it'll be like

And if, hypothetically, I was scum?
(I just really like seeing Zootopia gifs, don't judge.)

linki: Get outta my head

I have a thousand Zootopia gifs for winning this game.

And one Wednesday Adams gif for if Speedchuck starts moaning about being lynched.

Also if Speedchuck is scum and gets lynched.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am And one Wednesday Adams gif for if Speedchuck starts moaning about being lynched.

You won't be using that one.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:44 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:42 am And one Wednesday Adams gif for if Speedchuck starts moaning about being lynched.

You won't be using that one.

Well

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:14 am

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:09 am Development of the DDL read:

9:57 pm March 30 -

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm DDL looks like he's being careful. But maybe that's because he's only posted once.

9:57 pm March 30 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

12:24 pm March 31 -

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:24 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

Agreed.

3:02 pm March 31 - DDL's case against Jack re: random voting

7:20 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:20 pm Jack and DDL's argument has to be the most contrived thing I've seen in a while

7:24 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

8:22 pm March 31 -

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:22 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

I'm not so sure I like this, I've seen many people call others out for early game joke votes and they turn out scum a surprising amount of time. [VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

7:37 am April 1 -

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

Oh shit it’s SHP all over again. Better bus DDL.

But seriously this post below? It comes from a wolf.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

Leetic is right. This is a bad reason to vote that is typical of wolves.

Townies do vote players they don’t actually suspect in rvs. Townies don’t vote players with intent to lynch for doing so. I’ve never seen DDL hate on early semirandom voting with this kind of certainty before. He’s faking, here.

Ftr, my vote on Mac was not random but also I didn’t scumread him. Out of the players who had posted at the time, I had (however flimsy) some reason to townread most of them but no reason to townread Mac. So I voted there to see what would happen and what happened was DDL got caught being scummy.

I never said D1 was useless.

[VOTE: DDL] aubergine

So, I do agree that Jack came in after the suspicion of DDL was established by nova and leetic (and even Luna had a post in there) which means the thing I gave him credit for, the DDL case, was not correct.

I have read through speed and I will do so again today because I didn't see much to push him into my good or bad reads but at this point I think Jack looks worse so voting now [VOTE: Jack] aubergine.

What about this makes me bad?

Do you not see the logical inconsistencies in Speed's case against me?

IE actually tell only working if DDL was town?

Jack I had said that your DDL case was a point in your favor but as nova pointed out you came late to the case, DDL was already a baddie read. In my mind you were the first to have really jumped on him - I was wrong so that negates the positive trait I saw.

I'll look back and see if I can find a post where you pointed out the logical inconsistencies in speed's case. I don't remember the post but I might have skimmed over it. If there isn't a post of that nature I'm asking you to point those inconsistencies out.

[mention]juliets[/mention]

But why am I bad? What have I done to make you suspect me?

Here is my counterargument to Speed's case where I point out that it is dishonest/wrong.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 04#p527377

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:48 am One of my favorite things about Zootopia is that they take such care with animating background characters. You have scenes with dozens of background animals and they are all individually doing their own things that are painstakingly animated. In that Ox and Cheetah gif, there is a bear on the left doing the running man, a polar bear in the back taking a picture on his phone, a couple animals fist pumping, etc. There is no duplicated animation, nobody just standing doing nothing, no artificially unpopulated spaces to keep from having to animate these extra characters. It just shows what a work of love the movie is.

Zootopia is an awesome movie. Every little part of it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:57 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:48 am One of my favorite things about Zootopia is that they take such care with animating background characters. You have scenes with dozens of background animals and they are all individually doing their own things that are painstakingly animated. In that Ox and Cheetah gif, there is a bear on the left doing the running man, a polar bear in the back taking a picture on his phone, a couple animals fist pumping, etc. There is no duplicated animation, nobody just standing doing nothing, no artificially unpopulated spaces to keep from having to animate these extra characters. It just shows what a work of love the movie is.

Zootopia is an awesome movie. Every little part of it.

Well, except for the part where it's like "It's okay for cops to break the law because they're the good guys" which is in nearly every fictional story with protagonists in law enforcement and it really pisses me off. As a movie that is pretty explicitly an allegory for race relations in America, the writers should have known better than to use that trope.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:54 am @juliets

But why am I bad? What have I done to make you suspect me?

Here is my counterargument to Speed's case where I point out that it is dishonest/wrong.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 04#p527377

Jack, thanks, I have to run out for a little while but I will address your questions and your post when I return. It will only be a couple of hours, maybe less.

Is mac just skating by on his civilian inventor claim? Because other than that he hasn't done very much.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:43 pm My role is Jailer. Asked Epi if blocking the last Mafia would block the kill, and he didn't give me a conclusive answer. Mac and I should synchronize our targets N2 (if we get there) so that if he's telling the truth, it can be confirmed. Voting juliets for now, but I'll look over everyone again once I have the time.

And leetic has claimed jailer. That seems to have excused him from further suspicion.

I pretty sure juliets is town. Just from her saying "I'm town" in a post early on. I want to believe it.

Nova just looks town from all his effort. I can't see him as our last scum.

Jack is doing exactly what scum Jack would do if stuck in this predicament, and I can not find the guts to move my vote off of him.

I'm still a bit torn on my speedchuck stance, but I'm thinking with 70% Confidence that he's town. But if I'm wrong I'm going to be so annoyed.

[mention]leetic[/mention] are you planning to pick Jack or speed over your current juliets vote?

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:22 pm Jack is doing exactly what scum Jack would do if stuck in this predicament, and I can not find the guts to move my vote off of him.

You made a 5 point case against me on D1.

Iirc, one of your points was my DDL case being “no u” but DDL was scum. One of your points was the actually tell, which relies on DDL being town. One of your points was my unexplained Mac vote, which prompted DDL to accidentally out himself.

You’re starting with the assumption I’m bad and running with it, even as the actual reasons you think I’m bad are shown to be incorrect or sheeped from flipped scum.

You are in a tunnel.

Look at the way DDL treated me and Speed and the way me and Speed treated DDL and ask yourself who looks like the wolf.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:28 pm I'm still a bit torn on my speedchuck stance, but I'm thinking with 70% Confidence that he's town. But if I'm wrong I'm going to be so annoyed.

Why?

He’s making arguments that rely on doublethink and he did not want to lynch DDL. He was pushing me even after Leet, Nova and me all pointed out how DDL’s suspicion of me was fake.

What has Speed done to make you think he’s town?

The most recent true accusation made against me was that I said I didn’t like Nova’s posts on D0.

There’s lots of talk about how I shouldn’t get credit for this or that and there’s lots of accusations that were proven wrong by DDL’s flip but I don’t know why [mention]Lunalee[/mention] or [mention]juliets[/mention] or [mention]novaselinenever[/mention] suspect me.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention], the reason why your timing on the DDL read looks bad to me is you seem to want to use your case to take credit for the DDL lynch when really you just added on to others suspicions. Your statement below, for example, about when you suspected DDL is misleading Imo because you don't talk about all the posts that came before yours and the timing, i.e. you didn't jump in until the next day. Maybe I'm wrongheaded but thats how I'm reading it.

You also indicated that speed was inconsistent in his case against you. His case and your response are below. I don't understand what you are saying is inconsistent. You deny that you would have killed sable, and as you point out that's wifom. You say the actually tell is bullshit because you were not trying to discredit me or DDL but you admitted elsewhere in the game that "The point is to figure out if you believe the things you’re saying." That sure looks like you were trying to discredit me.

So please, spell our for me why his case on you is inconsistent. I just don't understand that word in the context of his case.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:08 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 pm It’s probably just Speed anyway. He admitted my behavior isn’t like SHP but his case is that I’m bussing just like SHP.

Reasons to scumread Jack:

-Juliets kill (jack is like alternate universe me, and I'd have done that [yes I know I might get lynched for saying this])
-'Actually' tell
-Full DDL suspicion doesn't come until the day lingers on the two of them for a long time
-Most of the rest of the game is cleared on either not knowing the number of scum or having a plausible role or just being sexy like Nova

The case has never been that you're bussing like SHP.
Just that you're bussing.

That said, I'm at like 45% confidence, and it looks likely that D2 and D3 will be speed and jack lynches in some order. Maybe if we lynch you first the game will end??

-Sabie kill, you mean? This is wifom but I wouldn’t have killed Sabie. I’d probably have killed Luna. She kept trying to lynch me in Flags even after I was mechanically confirmed. DDL’s treatment of her makes her look taf. She’s never going to give me credit for bussing DDL. Or maybe Leetic, who looked good after the DDL lynch and hinted PR.

But thanks for admitting you would kill Sabie as mafia.

-Actually tell is bullshit because the idea is that I was trying to discredit DDL and Juliets as fake or ridiculous...but you’re also saying I’m buddies with DDL.

A refresher on the nonsense you’re throwing at the wall, hoping it will stick. Btw, this came after both Leetic and I had pointed out DDL’s suspicion of me was fake and I was the counterwagon to the DDL lynch.

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:40 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:37 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:59 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:27 am Considering voting Jack here for the "Actually" tell.

Did you have something to say about that?

Tell me about this tell. It seems pretty random. Like the "interesting" tell that got pinned on myself onetime when I was town.

Disclaimer: I have never heard of the "Actually" tell. I made it up. That said, let's take a look.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:39 pm You (or Juliets) actually think I scumread Mac from one post?

What is the purpose of this word in the sentence? Without 'actually' in there, the sentence reads:
"You or Juliets think I scumread Mac from one post?" which is a question.

Putting in "actually" turns this question into an attack on their alignment or reasoning, one of the two. It insinuates that either DDL/Juliets don't believe what they are saying (therefore scum)... or they do, and that it's ridiculous. Painting their inquiry as scummy or ridiculous is an aggressive, defensive measure that pushes them to back off and shuts down the line of inquiry without actually answering their query.

In short, it's an unnecessary word that comes from a possibly-bad and blustery perspective. I see this post and hear a ten-year-old Overwatch player yelling into the microphone "You actually think this is my main account? You're seriously stupid if you think this Silver account is my main account. I'm actually ranked Diamond."

-This is false. I laid out my case on page 3. I voted second for DDL. My case came 28 posts after DDL voted for me and 14 posts after the first DDL vote from Leetic. There was no “lingering.”

-Okay. Also a reason to suspect you.

-But it is. It’s all over the thread, especially from you.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:27 pm I was your first scumread in SHP. Your second post in that game was discrediting a (flimsy) townread of me.

I have no doubts that you would cut DDL's throat and toss his corpse under the bus if things started looking even slightly bad.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:24 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:19 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:15 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:33 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:29 am Acts like I’m going to kill him for suspecting me makes it look like he knows I’m town.

Explain this.

Cause why would I kill you if I was scum? You look worse than I do. I’d need to mislynch you.

First off I take offense to that. You look plenty bad.

Secondly I still don't know how that makes me look like I know you're town.

Tell me why DDL was lynched.

Because you distanced from him early like you do in every game and then LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE happened all day. Which you complained about. It left you and DDL as the only remaining points of interest.

I was a scummate of yours in SHP. I'm not giving you any credit for this lynch.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm @sabie12 I could see DDL and Jack as teammates. Jack is super good at bussing for town cred after all.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:48 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:28 pm I'm still a bit torn on my speedchuck stance, but I'm thinking with 70% Confidence that he's town. But if I'm wrong I'm going to be so annoyed.

Why?

He’s making arguments that rely on doublethink and he did not want to lynch DDL. He was pushing me even after Leet, Nova and me all pointed out how DDL’s suspicion of me was fake.

What has Speed done to make you think he’s town?

Also Jack, could you give an example of his "doublespeak"? Help me see what you are seeing.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:53 pm The most recent true accusation made against me was that I said I didn’t like Nova’s posts on D0.

There’s lots of talk about how I shouldn’t get credit for this or that and there’s lots of accusations that were proven wrong by DDL’s flip but I don’t know why @Lunalee or @juliets or @novaselinenever suspect me.

That was also the first true accusation made against you, I voted you D1 for it

DDL's flip hasn't proven anything wrong. I didn't like your entrance into the game and in light of DDL's flip I believe that your statement of "let's open with a pretend vote on DDL" was an act of distancing. Your argument with DDL was contrived on both sides, and this is something I noted D1 before both of your wagons started to grow. I think that DDL was trying to distance himself with you with his case/vote on you, and y'all tried to let it blow over. You only stroke back to him when Leet and I criticized him for the case and yourself had become a popular lynch target. That's why I don't feel like the DDL's lynch reflect all that great on you.

I appreciate your effort though, and by no means is my vote on you final. I've said already that I'm looking at a Seed/Jack PoE and that y'all should be lynched back to back if the game doesn't end with the first one lol. I also stated the reasons for which Speed can very well be DDL's teammate.

Why would Speedchuck think I'm a wolf for trying to discredit a player that flipped wolf?

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:18 pm @Jackofhearts2005, the reason why your timing on the DDL read looks bad to me is you seem to want to use your case to take credit for the DDL lynch when really you just added on to others suspicions. Your statement below, for example, about when you suspected DDL is misleading Imo because you don't talk about all the posts that came before yours and the timing, i.e. you didn't jump in until the next day. Maybe I'm wrongheaded but thats how I'm reading it.

You also indicated that speed was inconsistent in his case against you. His case and your response are below. I don't understand what you are saying is inconsistent. You deny that you would have killed sable, and as you point out that's wifom. You say the actually tell is bullshit because you were not trying to discredit me or DDL but you admitted elsewhere in the game that "The point is to figure out if you believe the things you’re saying." That sure looks like you were trying to discredit me.

So please, spell our for me why his case on you is inconsistent. I just don't understand that word in the context of his case.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:08 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 pm It’s probably just Speed anyway. He admitted my behavior isn’t like SHP but his case is that I’m bussing just like SHP.

Reasons to scumread Jack:

-Juliets kill (jack is like alternate universe me, and I'd have done that [yes I know I might get lynched for saying this])
-'Actually' tell
-Full DDL suspicion doesn't come until the day lingers on the two of them for a long time
-Most of the rest of the game is cleared on either not knowing the number of scum or having a plausible role or just being sexy like Nova

The case has never been that you're bussing like SHP.
Just that you're bussing.

That said, I'm at like 45% confidence, and it looks likely that D2 and D3 will be speed and jack lynches in some order. Maybe if we lynch you first the game will end??

-Sabie kill, you mean? This is wifom but I wouldn’t have killed Sabie. I’d probably have killed Luna. She kept trying to lynch me in Flags even after I was mechanically confirmed. DDL’s treatment of her makes her look taf. She’s never going to give me credit for bussing DDL. Or maybe Leetic, who looked good after the DDL lynch and hinted PR.

But thanks for admitting you would kill Sabie as mafia.

-Actually tell is bullshit because the idea is that I was trying to discredit DDL and Juliets as fake or ridiculous...but you’re also saying I’m buddies with DDL.

A refresher on the nonsense you’re throwing at the wall, hoping it will stick. Btw, this came after both Leetic and I had pointed out DDL’s suspicion of me was fake and I was the counterwagon to the DDL lynch.

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:40 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:37 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:59 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:27 am Considering voting Jack here for the "Actually" tell.

Did you have something to say about that?

Tell me about this tell. It seems pretty random. Like the "interesting" tell that got pinned on myself onetime when I was town.

Disclaimer: I have never heard of the "Actually" tell. I made it up. That said, let's take a look.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:39 pm You (or Juliets) actually think I scumread Mac from one post?

What is the purpose of this word in the sentence? Without 'actually' in there, the sentence reads:
"You or Juliets think I scumread Mac from one post?" which is a question.

Putting in "actually" turns this question into an attack on their alignment or reasoning, one of the two. It insinuates that either DDL/Juliets don't believe what they are saying (therefore scum)... or they do, and that it's ridiculous. Painting their inquiry as scummy or ridiculous is an aggressive, defensive measure that pushes them to back off and shuts down the line of inquiry without actually answering their query.

In short, it's an unnecessary word that comes from a possibly-bad and blustery perspective. I see this post and hear a ten-year-old Overwatch player yelling into the microphone "You actually think this is my main account? You're seriously stupid if you think this Silver account is my main account. I'm actually ranked Diamond."

-This is false. I laid out my case on page 3. I voted second for DDL. My case came 28 posts after DDL voted for me and 14 posts after the first DDL vote from Leetic. There was no “lingering.”

-Okay. Also a reason to suspect you.

-But it is. It’s all over the thread, especially from you.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:27 pm I was your first scumread in SHP. Your second post in that game was discrediting a (flimsy) townread of me.

I have no doubts that you would cut DDL's throat and toss his corpse under the bus if things started looking even slightly bad.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:24 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:19 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:15 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:33 am

Explain this.

Cause why would I kill you if I was scum? You look worse than I do. I’d need to mislynch you.

First off I take offense to that. You look plenty bad.

Secondly I still don't know how that makes me look like I know you're town.

Tell me why DDL was lynched.

Because you distanced from him early like you do in every game and then LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE happened all day. Which you complained about. It left you and DDL as the only remaining points of interest.

I was a scummate of yours in SHP. I'm not giving you any credit for this lynch.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm @sabie12 I could see DDL and Jack as teammates. Jack is super good at bussing for town cred after all.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:24 pm DDL's flip hasn't proven anything wrong. I didn't like your entrance into the game and in light of DDL's flip I believe that your statement of "let's open with a pretend vote on DDL" was an act of distancing. Your argument with DDL was contrived on both sides, and this is something I noted D1 before both of your wagons started to grow. I think that DDL was trying to distance himself with you with his case/vote on you, and y'all tried to let it blow over. You only stroke back to him when Leet and I criticized him for the case and yourself had become a popular lynch target. That's why I don't feel like the DDL's lynch reflect all that great on you.

My argument wasn't contrived. It was correct. You and Leetic said the same thing. What are you talking about?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:36 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:24 pm DDL's flip hasn't proven anything wrong. I didn't like your entrance into the game and in light of DDL's flip I believe that your statement of "let's open with a pretend vote on DDL" was an act of distancing. Your argument with DDL was contrived on both sides, and this is something I noted D1 before both of your wagons started to grow. I think that DDL was trying to distance himself with you with his case/vote on you, and y'all tried to let it blow over. You only stroke back to him when Leet and I criticized him for the case and yourself had become a popular lynch target. That's why I don't feel like the DDL's lynch reflect all that great on you.

My argument wasn't contrived. It was correct. You and Leetic said the same thing. What are you talking about?

Your argument with DDL, as in the interactions you guys had about rvs, reaction votes bla bla bla lol.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:36 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:24 pm DDL's flip hasn't proven anything wrong. I didn't like your entrance into the game and in light of DDL's flip I believe that your statement of "let's open with a pretend vote on DDL" was an act of distancing. Your argument with DDL was contrived on both sides, and this is something I noted D1 before both of your wagons started to grow. I think that DDL was trying to distance himself with you with his case/vote on you, and y'all tried to let it blow over. You only stroke back to him when Leet and I criticized him for the case and yourself had become a popular lynch target. That's why I don't feel like the DDL's lynch reflect all that great on you.

My argument wasn't contrived. It was correct. You and Leetic said the same thing. What are you talking about?

Your argument with DDL, as in the interactions you guys had about rvs, reaction votes bla bla bla lol.

I don't know what to tell you. He was all over a thing that is normal and I tried to feel him (and Juliets) out about this. Juliets understood what I was doing. DDL doubled down that I must be bad for it. It was dishonest. He was scum trying to get me lynched.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:20 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:48 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:28 pm I'm still a bit torn on my speedchuck stance, but I'm thinking with 70% Confidence that he's town. But if I'm wrong I'm going to be so annoyed.

Why?

He’s making arguments that rely on doublethink and he did not want to lynch DDL. He was pushing me even after Leet, Nova and me all pointed out how DDL’s suspicion of me was fake.

What has Speed done to make you think he’s town?

Also Jack, could you give an example of his "doublespeak"? Help me see what you are seeing.

He's saying I'm scum for trying to discredit you and DDL. That's what he supposedly thought on D1 when he supposedly didn't know DDL was a wolf.

Now, he still believes that I'm scum for trying to discredit you and DDL. But he has supposedly learned that DDL is a wolf since then. He's operating under the assumption that DDL is both a wolf (cause he flipped) and a townie (cause Jack is suspicious for trying to discredit him). It's not a perspective that townie Speed would actually have.

He's also saying that his belief that I bussed DDL has nothing to do with SHP but he's brought up my behavior in SHP twice today to justify the idea that I bussed. It's about SHP when it's convincing to other players to remind them of SHP and it's not about SHP when I confront him over it and make him admit my behavior in SHP is nothing like my D1 here.

Ok thanks Jack, I will re-read that section with your perspective in mind, read some more speedchuck, and then ponder.

Also what is SHP - was it a game here?