Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Master Radishes]

Geezus Eva – sorry if this is a backhanded compliment, but that may be your best post of the game. THIS is the player I’ve been expecting but not seeing. *cough*fightingforsurvival*cough*

I mean, it’s got a lot wrong with it, but points for trying anyway.

I expect to be able to understand your reasoning for why certain people are town or scum, since we come from a similar environment and you claim to have some idea how my brain works and how to pitch me a case, but everything you've personally come up with has left me cold.

Do we come from a similar environment? I don’t know that we do. I rarely play away from my homesite and I’ve not played ‘competitive’ Mafia (as it were) in years. I just happened to watch Champs this year (to cheer on 112) and JJJ twisted my arm to join (he and I go back to Season 2).

I also don’t claim to know how your brain works. I only claim to have watched a couple games of yours, heard your rep, discussed you in spec chat, etc. Your style of playing is, I believe, actually quite different from mine.

You called me scum D2&3 based on my late D1 vote, then said you were having doubts early in D3 and used that to justify accepting Spiny's post as a clear on me. When me and Pawn called you on it, you backtracked hastily. Today you're maintaining that your heavy scumread of me remained strong for the whole day. So what you said about having doubts on D3 was a lie, then?

Creating narratives won’t work on me, fyi. I did not use anything to ‘justify’ anything. And I certainly did not backtrack ‘hastily’. (Who was saying things about adverbs being scumtells? I like the theory, I’ve decided.) There’s been no lie about my read on you.

Let’s try again.

After townreading you D1 for a generally solid tone, your vote pinged me, and I put your name forward as an option. Iaafr, Pawn, Epi, and even Jack all shut me down. Look, say what you want about me, but I’m a team player – if my team tells me I’m wrong, I’ve learned to listen. Now, I’m not calling all of them villagers, but certainly at the time I read most of them as such, and still do to various extents. So I shrugged and backed off.

As is natural, yes, doubts crept in. And I did try to recalibrate my view of the game and create a town!Eva world. I didn’t really get anywhere, though, because I couldn’t get it out of my mind. I hoped the dream levels would re-combine or something and I would get different opinions and/or not be in a level with you. (And now here we are. Sigh.)

In D3, Rabbit brought up the Spiny post. As a general rule of thumb, I always err on the side of believing claims, even if I have doubts. So yes, I latched on to that as a means to force me to stop tunneling. And still no one else was expressing doubt about you anyway, so I did feel on an island. And I simply don’t have the time or energy in this game to make everyone swim to my island. (Not sure that metaphor made sense…) So I let it be and continued to focus on looking for scum through other methods.


I’ll continue this train of thought in a future post. Let’s continue responding to your points.

You scumread Jack early in D3, putting him in your bottom 3 IIRC. He remained there for some time, and then I made my post about how the current PoE felt bad and I thought Jack, Colin, Dom, Sprityo were all bad cases and that Jack in particular was ML bait because he has no defenders at all. You seemed vaguely convinced by this and moved off your scumread, but returned to it later in the day for reasons that aren't really clear to me, and AFAIK that was where you left off. Now you're saying that you reversed your position again and hard-townread Jack? I don't understand the reasoning behind your flip-flops here.

You have misremembered and/or misinterpreted.

First of all, where do you get the idea any post you made changed my mind on anything? You were not the first to suggest the low-posting PoE felt bad; in fact, I was on that as early as D2. I had a brief discussion with Pawn about it. (He basically shrugged at it and said it was the best PoE for now.)

My read on Jack has bounced like a yo-yo, that’s true, but it’s been doing that all game because he posted so much whilst saying so little and refused to engage in conversations or really explain his reads in more than a brief sentence. I can’t read that style well, so my read has bounced around. As explained in an above post directed at Sprityo, I did a list near the end of D3 and found decent reasons to TR Jack, whereas my SR had always been for fairly lazy ‘he’s not doing much’ reasons.

Throughout the entire day you were "townreading" Pawn with a deeply uncertain tone. I don't recall if you actually flipped on him when I pushed him, but I definitely don't recall you defending him... and checking my spreadsheet here, it looks like one of your final 3 options was Pawn.

Explained above to Sprit. Pawn’s posts showed a similar thought process to mine, so that made me a bit concerned but overall made me TR him. I wasn’t around when you pushed him, and concluded it hadn’t changed my opinion. He ended up in my final 3 by PoE as I didn’t find a better reason to TR him than I did for a couple others who had been hovering down my list, e.g. Jack.

Epi, on the other hand, you entered the day scumreading... and then slowly slid into a townread based IIRC on his push of Rabbit, which to my eyes was excessive and unfair. You did this while townreading Rabbit, and made no attempt to break up the conflict between two of your townreads. It feels extremely convenient to me that you slid into townreading Epi in this fashion.

False. Epi was a town read all of D3. It was strengthened by the Rabbit thing, that's true. But it was D2 I started the day uncertain on Epi, and had changed by the end of the phase.

I think you did make a brief post about Pawn "slanking" or "coasting" at one point, but I certainly don't recall any major contributions from you at EoD. (Unless it was you who was tinfoiling a Pawn/me scumteam? I'm fairly sure that was earlier in the day anyway.)

It was me, but you’re right it was earlier.

There were no major contributions at EoD because I wasn’t here.

You slid towards "Jack is town" following me; you slid towards "Pawn is scum" following Epi. You claim to have only townread Pawn in the first place based on the fact that Rabbit thought he was town. You backed off your position that I was scum very quickly when Spiny's post came up, and then backed right back onto it just as quickly when I called you out on it.

All of these are false. You're either trying to create a narrative about me being a follower, or you misremember my posts/the timing of them.

You try not to get involved in conflicts in the thread, and are particularly likely to ambiguously-townread strong players like Epi and Pawn. It seems important to you that perceptive people like Epi not have reason to look at you too close: while I'm also known as a strong player, it's a lot easier to brush off suspicion from me than from someone like Epignosis, which makes your persistent scumread of me slot quite neatly into a world where I'm being framed.

That's another nice narrative, but also not true. I would agree I’m not a ‘confrontational’ player, but at the same time all the ‘conflicts’ have happened when I haven’t been in the thread. So I haven't exactly been able to get involved.

You could categorise my TRs of Epi and Pawn as ambiguous, sure. Or perhaps 'uncertain'? Weren’t you just defending my accusations of your ‘uncertainty’ by pointing out that’s a towntell? My reads of Epi and Pawn have fluctuated between varying levels of certainty, and I see nothing wrong with that.

(Also, for the record, I’d rather Epi come after me than you. You’re scary when you want to be.)

As for your analysis content, I recall one solid analysis post at the beginning of D2 regarding the votals, and thereafter your reads have felt confused, vague and underspecified.

This is…fair. Or, rather, I feel that’s not the case, but enough people have said something like this to me so far that I can accept I’m not making myself as clear as I need to be. It’s a bit unfair to attack my lack of analysis, though, considering there’s very little to analyse without past threads, and I could easily say the same about you.

Also, I love ‘votals’. Haven’t seen that one before.

I've had to prod you for reasoning multiple times,

You have done no such thing. You’ve engaged me about twice in this game. I was paying attention because I was waiting for a post such as this and never got it.

but they score points for getting louder in lylo while you seem to be becoming quieter.

Completely unfair. My timezone is different from yours and I’ve explained that today was particularly busy for me. I have about 3 hours max per day on for this game, and a lot of that has been spent simply reading up. As for this round, it started at 11pm for me, and so I’ve had all of one hour this morning so far.


---

My concern with your reasoning here is that so much seems predicated on things that are twisted, misrepresented, or in some cases simply untrue. Suggesting my reads have felt ‘confused, vague, and underspecified’ is the best thing about it, as you’re not the only player so far to feel that way, so clearly I’ve not done a good enough job projecting my thoughts. But essentially everything else feels more like you’re scraping the barrel for reasons to cast doubt on me in any way you can.

[Master Radishes]

Yeesh. I hate writing long posts. Taking a break.


So, in a sentence or two, what's your guys' life stories?

[Master Radishes]

Oh, [mention]sprityo[/mention], are you able to be around at EoD then? Or do we need to settle things before then?

EoD is 11pm for me (GMT) and I can be around for the last 2-3 hours, intermittently.

[Evenstar]

I won't make that a big point. It's more so interesting. Situational Awareness if you will.

So then if we are to believe that this is reality, why did the mafia kill Colin?

In this world we have...
Radishes
Eva
Sprityo

Epi
Dom
Jack
Iaafr

~~Colin~~
~~Pawn~~

If one person in this group is scum, then that strongly implies there's exactly one scum in the group of people who got left behind, because there were probably two yesterday and they ain't both here.

So there's one scum in Sprityo/Radishes and one scum in Epi/Dom/Jack/Iaafr.

Possible Scumteams:
Radish/Rabbit
Radish/Jack
Radish/Dom
Radish/Epi

Sprityo/Rabbit
Sprityo/Jack
Sprityo/Dom
Sprityo/Epi

Okay, let's crunch this. I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.

Radish/Rabbit
Rabbit is town, and if he wasn't he'd be here pocketing me.

Radish/Jack: Possible.
Radish's flip-flopping on Jack suggests that this could be the case, especially when combined with Jack's very strong town read on Radish for no discernible reason. Jack is a frontrunner in the voting, but is not lynched.

Radish/Dom In this case there's been some pretty hardcore distancing going on, in that I can't recall the two ever actually interacting. IME no scum team ever is that disciplined: two players actually not talking to each other for the whole game is a very strong indicator they're not W/W. Also, I cannot imagine Dom having that level of control.

Radish/Epi: Possible. Radish's weird slide of a read on Epi and Epi's "meh" read on Radish read like distancing to me. This pair also had good reason to want Pawn dead, as he suspected Epi and was being listened to.

Sprityo/Rabbit Rabbit is not here pocketing me.

Sprityo/Jack Nothing team, would not get here.

Sprityo/Dom Nothing team, would not get here.

Sprityo/Epi: Possible, even plausible. Epi never really pursued his Sprityo case, so it could be distancing. This pair has very good reason to want Pawn dead. Sprityo is a frontrunner in the voting, but Pawn or Colin is lynched.


So if the three possible pairs are:
Jack/Radish
Epi/Radish
Epi/Sprityo

And if we assume Pawn was lynched...
1. Who had means?
Basically any of these three teams.

2. Who had motive?
All three, but Epi/Radish less so than the others, as neither partner needed the lynch pushed off them.

But that implies Colin was killed. Who would have motive for that?

In that case, Epi/Sprityo is looking at:
Colin
Jack
Rabbit
Eva
Radishes

They never kill Colin. They want to rand me or another Syndicate member. They kill Radishes or Rabbit.

Jack/Radish is looking at:
Colin
Rabbit
Eva
Epi
Sprityo

They kill... a Syndicate member. My instinct goes to Epi, but if they rand me or Rabbit with Epi then they likely win just by laying low in the crossfire. They want that. So they kill Colin or Sprityo. There's a chance of them pulling the me-and-rabbit pair if the advancement is completely random save the NK, but my gut says it's not. This could be the world we are in.

Epi/Radish is looking at:
Colin
Rabbit
Eva
Jack
Sprityo

Epi/Radish kills me or Rabbit. They never kill Colin.

So if Colin is dead of a nightkill, the upper-two-levels scumteam is exactly Jack and Radish.

Huh.

[Master Radishes]

Radish/Jack: Possible.
Radish's flip-flopping on Jack suggests that this could be the case, especially when combined with Jack's very strong town read on Radish for no discernible reason. Jack is a frontrunner in the voting, but is not lynched.

You have, once again, misremembered.

Jack had a scumread on me for the majority of D2/D3. I think near the end I slipped up into the 'middle' but he never had a 'very strong town read' on me. For the majority of our time with him he scumread me.

You may need to re-do your entire analysis now.

[Master Radishes]

I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.

This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)

A scum team may choose me, but I've faced my share of heat as well. There was a point where I was the most widely scumread player. I may not have been at EoD3, but I was certainly not strongly townread. I was an 'eh, probably not' sort of read. If my teammate is any of Rabbit, Epi, or even Pawn, they're likely here instead of me. Heck, possibly even Dom.

A scum team could very well choose Eva. She was widely townread except by one vegetable. That seems like a solid choice.



It's interesting you assume this because I think if anything it points to you more than Sprit.

[Evenstar]

1: We've both played on MU, and are therefore more similar than an MU player and a Syndicate player. I expect you to be more legible to me than Epignosis, not less.

2: If you don't claim to know how my brain works, why is so much of your case against me based on your meta read of me? You're saying you don't understand me in the same breath that you're asserting I clearly did X, Y, Z. You acknowledge that your argument based on nightkills is heavily wine-based, but you still devote several paragraphs to it. Is this not an assertion that you know how my mind works well enough that others should listen?

You don't know me, Radish. You know my reputation.

3: Oh, so it's kosher for you to toss in a comment like "*coughfightingforsurvivalcough*" in your counterargument, but it's not okay for me to describe your actions in the ways that I percieved them? It was a hasty backpedal, and I was not the only player to call you out for it.

4: If you believe in your team so much, why are you trusting your gut over the single player in this game who knows me best, who just ate the nightkill?

5: I still don't understand your handling of the Spiny post, and I'm really looking forward to a proper answer there.

6: That discussion was in D3. I was the one who prompted Pawn to take a look at his PoE, because overnight I'd developed the feeling that we'd dunked town in Nova because it was too easy. You didn't prompt Pawn to do jack shit: you did take a look at Jack at around that point because I and Pawn were re-evaluating him. Wishing I had the thread right now.

7: Sure, I'll accept that. Now go through the reasons why you settled on Jack above Pawn again, slowly. Really spell it out for me, because I don't see how you can claim that Pawn deserved to die more than Jack. That is a terrible read.

8: Okay, you were townreading Epi at the start of the day. The question remains: Why didn't you try to break up the obviously unproductive argument between two of your townreads?

9: Yes, it's quite convenient how you were absent for EoD.

10: I read Jack as town and then you read Jack as town. Epi reads Pawn as scum and then you read Pawn as scum. I literally cannot think of an original read you've confidently expressed: even your scumread of me was originally voiced by Hyena IIRC.

11: It is extremely convenient that you have just happened to not be in the thread during every major argument. There's been what, five or six of them now? Nutella vs me, Dom & Epi vs Rabbit, Pawn vs Epi, LLD vs. Epi, etc, etc. At some point, this stops looking like limited playtime and starts looking like conflict avoidance.

12: No, they haven't. That's the point. You spent 90% of D3 going "ennnnhhhhh town I guess" in Pawn's direction at roughly the same volume, and only actually changed your read of him after he'd had major interactions with both Epi and me. What were you doing with that read? How were you trying to make it more settled? "Ambiguous" is a word I chose carefully, because it did not read to me as you waffling or being unable to read those players: it read to me as you not really trying to read those players. You've very much relied on other people to go out and do the real investigative work for you.

13: Fair enough regarding the difficulty of producing content in that thread environment. I would still like you to address the fall-off though.

14: Could have sworn I pinged you like three times for reasons and updated readslists in D3. It's possible that Pawn got to it before I did.

15: Yes, I am in fact trying to scrape up every single even mildly scummy thing you've done and throw them in your face, just like I'm trying to do the same for Sprityo. The fact that there are many, many more of them for you than for Sprityo seems pretty indicative to me.

[Master Radishes]

The case against Evenstar

Her tone felt wrong:
--The vast majority of her posts from D2 were very small contributions, very much lacking in scumhunting, and mainly a stream-of-consciousness tone full of ‘…’s and ‘?’s and ‘what if’s. (And adverbs.) For example, her biggest post of D2 was a stream-of-consciousness ‘what if’ rant about the mechanics of the strange new game state and its restrictions. That itself is fine, if it goes anywhere, but her tone was mongering uncertainty, rather than being focused on actually figuring it out. She throws out thoughts about 8 scum in the thread, or no scum, etc – unlikely scenarios that don’t add to mechanics-solving.

--Along the same vein, at other points of the round she speculated on a triple scumwagon on D1 (Epi/112/Drago), entertained notions about what the phrase ‘up a level’ means, suggested forming in-game hydras…things that don’t contribute to discussion. They’re distractions.

--For someone who is known for an in-your-face style and who self-describes her style as pressuring until scum are revealed, she did remarkably little of that. Who did she pressure lately? Pawn? That lasted less than a page and she backed down quickly. In D1 she was a bulldog, but by D2 she was a puppy.


As for her actual content:
--She started D2 going after Pawn although quickly backed off that. She said Pawn ‘gave me bad info at dayend’ about Mac ‘crusading’ the Epi wagon. Pawn basically reaffirmed he believed what he said and Eva…just backed off. And she TRed Pawn the rest of the round. Then, in D3, Jack and I began discussing Pawn very lightly as a read (Jack refused to really discuss anything) and Eva comes in and rips him apart. Pawn responds and Eva…backs off. Like, very easily. Just a ‘okay, that puts my mind at ease, thanks’ sort of reaction (that’s not an actual quote – I didn’t note it down). The fangs retracted very quickly.

--Most of her posts that actually focused on pressuring potential scum in D2 were focused on Jack. And yet Jack only once appeared in her ‘bottom 3’ lists that day, and there was no real push to lynch him at any point. She also never really outright cased him, just said he ‘deserves pressure’ and picks up on a few minor inconsistencies.

--Her reads remained fairly static in D2, with only a couple exceptions. Aside from briefly SRing Pawn, and switching her read on 112 halfway through (which in turn reversed her read of Epi), the most she changed her reads was at the end when she started proposing low posters like Dom and Colin as lynch targets, after ignoring them as she had done up to that point. She kept Nova in her bottom 3, SRed me consistently (but without any real explanation beyond OMGUS), shaded Jack (but rarely openly stateed an SR of him), and avoided serious comment on most others. It really looked like she was playing to slip by unnoticed.

--As we approached the end of D2, Sprit became a last minute choice amongst several of us. Eva began to softly defend Sprit. She even said she hopes to ‘nail’ me if Sprit flipped green. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone say that sort of thing and flip green themselves. Also, Sprit was in the same ‘content range’ category as Nova, Dom, and Colin, who she continued to SR.

--She spent a fair chunk of time in the middle of D2 complaining about the lack of voting ability. She said it hinders her style of game (this is fair) and tells me at one point she intends to change that. She then…doesn’t. Like, even into D3, I don’t remember anything notable she did except her Pawn push.

--D3 she’s very blendy, IMO. I actually don’t remember much of what she did. Probably should’ve written some of it down.


Not to mention:
--Her vote in D1 tied Drago with 112 at 8-8 with 3 mins left. We were that close to not lynching a wolf due to her vote. (And, of course, others.)

--The Nook and Pawn (that’s still my assumption) kill choices fit her. They’re players she’s familiar with and will worry could read her correctly.

--Her entrance to this round was…interesting. She votes Sprityo immediately but gives some blah blah about me being the ‘correct lynch’ but she’s assuming she’s wrong. It's illogical. It also feels way too much like she knew *I’m* the one she needs to convince, since I’ve SRed both her and Sprit fairly heavily. She didn't start pressuring me this round until I made it clear I was leaning towards her.

--Her reasoning for me being potential scum has been full of misrememberings (I’ll avoid saying ‘lies’ since she may genuinely misremember.)

[Master Radishes]

Cross posting buddies.

I need to do my case on Sprit and now respond to you. I may end up falling asleep and doing neither now. We'll see.

[Evenstar]

I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.

This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)

A scum team may choose me, but I've faced my share of heat as well. There was a point where I was the most widely scumread player. I may not have been at EoD3, but I was certainly not strongly townread. I was an 'eh, probably not' sort of read. If my teammate is any of Rabbit, Epi, or even Pawn, they're likely here instead of me. Heck, possibly even Dom.

A scum team could very well choose Eva. She was widely townread except by one vegetable. That seems like a solid choice.



It's interesting you assume this because I think if anything it points to you more than Sprit.

Interesting how you outright acknowledge that you're more likely scum than me, and are trying to get me lynched for being too shiny.

Moreover, why are you not dead? If I am scum, and you're the only person scumreading me, why did I not put a bullet in your skull last night? Was I that scared of Pawn after pocketing him for three days running?

[Master Radishes]

1: We've both played on MU, and are therefore more similar than an MU player and a Syndicate player. I expect you to be more legible to me than Epignosis, not less.
Okay. Maybe. I don't think this is a productive discussion, though.

2: If you don't claim to know how my brain works, why is so much of your case against me based on your meta read of me? You're saying you don't understand me in the same breath that you're asserting I clearly did X, Y, Z. You acknowledge that your argument based on nightkills is heavily wine-based, but you still devote several paragraphs to it. Is this not an assertion that you know how my mind works well enough that others should listen?

You don't know me, Radish. You know my reputation.
I agree I know only your reputation. I've said as much. But my case is built on more than just a supposed meta read. It's about your contributions and tone as a player, regardless of the name.

3: Oh, so it's kosher for you to toss in a comment like "*coughfightingforsurvivalcough*" in your counterargument, but it's not okay for me to describe your actions in the ways that I percieved them? It was a hasty backpedal, and I was not the only player to call you out for it.
Sure it's okay - snide comments are part of the fun of scumhunting! I'm just going to point it out when I see you doing it.

If you wish to characterise it that way, I can't stop you.

4: If you believe in your team so much, why are you trusting your gut over the single player in this game who knows me best, who just ate the nightkill?
I trusted them for two Day phases. That's a good amount of time to trust Pawn et al. And yet here you are, still not NKed whilst the player you say knows you best is.

5: I still don't understand your handling of the Spiny post, and I'm really looking forward to a proper answer there.
I gave one.

6: That discussion was in D3. I was the one who prompted Pawn to take a look at his PoE, because overnight I'd developed the feeling that we'd dunked town in Nova because it was too easy. You didn't prompt Pawn to do jack shit: you did take a look at Jack at around that point because I and Pawn were re-evaluating him. Wishing I had the thread right now.
Then you just don't remember Pawn and I talking about it in D2. No worries, it's tough without the thread.

7: Sure, I'll accept that. Now go through the reasons why you settled on Jack above Pawn again, slowly. Really spell it out for me, because I don't see how you can claim that Pawn deserved to die more than Jack. That is a terrible read.
Already did. I listed my best reason for townreading everyone, and for Pawn all I got was 'I like a lot of what he says'. For Jack I had specifics about his tone, his reads, etc. Pawn ended up in my bottom 3 by PoE. I've said this about three times now.

8: Okay, you were townreading Epi at the start of the day. The question remains: Why didn't you try to break up the obviously unproductive argument between two of your townreads?
Because, again, I wasn't here to do so.

9: Yes, it's quite convenient how you were absent for EoD.
Lmao, just admit this is not a point against me.

10: I read Jack as town and then you read Jack as town. Epi reads Pawn as scum and then you read Pawn as scum. I literally cannot think of an original read you've confidently expressed: even your scumread of me was originally voiced by Hyena IIRC.
Just blatantly false or exaggerated. You're constructing narratives as you remember from your perspective. You've shown no real indication that you've actually read any of my posts until this round.

11: It is extremely convenient that you have just happened to not be in the thread during every major argument. There's been what, five or six of them now? Nutella vs me, Dom & Epi vs Rabbit, Pawn vs Epi, LLD vs. Epi, etc, etc. At some point, this stops looking like limited playtime and starts looking like conflict avoidance.
They're called timezones.

12: No, they haven't. That's the point. You spent 90% of D3 going "ennnnhhhhh town I guess" in Pawn's direction at roughly the same volume, and only actually changed your read of him after he'd had major interactions with both Epi and me. What were you doing with that read? How were you trying to make it more settled? "Ambiguous" is a word I chose carefully, because it did not read to me as you waffling or being unable to read those players: it read to me as you not really trying to read those players. You've very much relied on other people to go out and do the real investigative work for you.
This is your narrative and you're sticking to it I guess.

13: Fair enough regarding the difficulty of producing content in that thread environment. I would still like you to address the fall-off though.
Fall off in content? I came in expecting to be able to re-read D1. When I couldn't, I struggled to adapt. I think a lot of us did.

14: Could have sworn I pinged you like three times for reasons and updated readslists in D3. It's possible that Pawn got to it before I did.
Just checked my pings and I have none from you in D3. Which, tbh, seems wrong - I thought there was one.

15: Yes, I am in fact trying to scrape up every single even mildly scummy thing you've done and throw them in your face, just like I'm trying to do the same for Sprityo. The fact that there are many, many more of them for you than for Sprityo seems pretty indicative to me.
But you're scraping to the point of using my timezone or real-life schedule against me. That's scraping a bit low in the proverbial barrel.

[Master Radishes]

Eva, the fact you're actually resorting to the ol' 'how convenient you weren't here for x and y' is not a good look on you. I've never hidden my timezone difference and its effects; I've always mentioned when I might not be around at EoD. This hasn't been a secret. If you really can't think of better arguments then drop them and focus on the ones you think might actually have legs.

[Master Radishes]

It's actually midnight now. I do intend to case Sprityo, but it'll have to wait.

Have a lovely day.

[Evenstar]

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention]
1: Yep, I've been slanking, I agree. I have made no secret of my deep dislike of this game's secret-voting mechanics, and frankly that makes me not wanna play the game. Lexi got hit even harder than I did: I think she something like 7-posted D2. Does that mean she's scum?

2: I happen to enjoy running weird games like this: naturally my thoughts turned to "how was this designed?" And if you don't expect me to be dumping my stream of consciousness into the game, IDK who you think you're playing with.

3: I would like to note the hypocrisy of your complaining about my not being aggressive enough while simultaneously complaining about how I'm being unfair to you by bringing up things you think are trivial. Not to mention this is literally just a restatement of 1.

4: Pawn and I have an understanding that this is just our meta. I get it looks weird, but this literally happens in every game we're together in. In Dragon Ball M(afia) I went full bulldog on him: I outed him as the Gunsmith and then got mislynched for my troubles.

Yeah.

5: Blah blah D2. Yes, I slanked through D2. You have repeated this argument three times.

6: I guess the Sprityo point's worth addressing. Dom and Colin were not doing significant bullwork. Sprityo was: when he appeared in the thread he generally had something real to say, while the others tended more towards fluff (Michelle, Colin) or directionless aggro (Dom). I do recall saying I wanted to nail you to a wall if Sprit flipped green, but that's because I-believe-it-was-Epi asked "why do you care about Radishes' read of Sprityo?"

You had been fence-sitting and pushing Sprityo from a distance, without voting: I wanted you to publicly commit to the lynch you were sponsoring. You didn't.

7: Still the same accusation from 1. Get better and more varied material.

8: Yep, vote looks bad, not contesting that.

9: Wine argument, requires me to have killed both Nook and Pawn while they were deeply pocketed.

10:

Seriously, you think that I thought you read Sprityo as in the same tier of scumminess as me? You've been on my ass since like D2 by your own admission, and you're tunneling me despite both Pawn and Spiny's better judgment. If you're town, I think we just lose at this point. I don't see how I could possibly convince you given all the evidence you're selectively ignoring.

[Evenstar]

Radishes, I get that time zones suck. Nonetheless, I would expect you to have been around for some significant event over the week-and-a-bit this game's been running, if only because I expect you to go out and make one yourself if none are conveniently available.

I will grant you that you did give warning you wouldn't be here for EoD yesterday. I honestly don't recall if you did earlier than that, but I'll give it to you.

Also, accusations of "narrative"...
1: Are a fully general counterargument to anything I say you don't like. "Part of the narrative of me being scum."
2: Much like the accusation "You're being whiny", can only make me look worse if I try to contest them. (Particularly as I have a reputation already.)
3: Make it difficult for me to take your responses seriously, because it seems like the kind of obvious ploy that a scum would use to try to discredit legitimate suspicion, especially in an environment where the facts are inaccessible.

So, I'm just going to ignore that argument and hope you're courteous enough to find better ones. Alright?

[Evenstar]

I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.

This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)

Also, coming back to this: Sprityo is damn near an IC at this point because he's too visibly unskilled to have gotten here on purpose. This makes him extremely unlikely to get lynched, and therefore, paradoxically, a great selection to put in a F3. 112 lurked out three days in WC1 by looking too harmless/not-on-the-ball to be scum.

So yeah, I'm paranoid. Doubly so because Sprityo definitely has some skill: he's not a poor player, he's a competent-but-quiet one.

[Evenstar]

Radish/Jack: Possible.
Radish's flip-flopping on Jack suggests that this could be the case, especially when combined with Jack's very strong town read on Radish for no discernible reason. Jack is a frontrunner in the voting, but is not lynched.

You have, once again, misremembered.

Jack had a scumread on me for the majority of D2/D3. I think near the end I slipped up into the 'middle' but he never had a 'very strong town read' on me. For the majority of our time with him he scumread me.

You may need to re-do your entire analysis now.

No, that was Rabbit.

[Evenstar]

I distinctly recall Jack started D3 with {Epi, Rabbit, Colin}.
[mention]sprityo[/mention], am I misremembering?

[sprityo]

Oh, @sprityo, are you able to be around at EoD then? Or do we need to settle things before then?

EoD is 11pm for me (GMT) and I can be around for the last 2-3 hours, intermittently.

Preferably before. But I can make an effort to appear

[sprityo]

I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.

This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)

A scum team may choose me, but I've faced my share of heat as well. There was a point where I was the most widely scumread player. I may not have been at EoD3, but I was certainly not strongly townread. I was an 'eh, probably not' sort of read. If my teammate is any of Rabbit, Epi, or even Pawn, they're likely here instead of me. Heck, possibly even Dom.

A scum team could very well choose Eva. She was widely townread except by one vegetable. That seems like a solid choice.



It's interesting you assume this because I think if anything it points to you more than Sprit.

None taken Radishes. I’m aware of my lack of prowess

[sprityo]

I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.

This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)

Also, coming back to this: Sprityo is damn near an IC at this point because he's too visibly unskilled to have gotten here on purpose. This makes him extremely unlikely to get lynched, and therefore, paradoxically, a great selection to put in a F3. 112 lurked out three days in WC1 by looking too harmless/not-on-the-ball to be scum.

So yeah, I'm paranoid. Doubly so because Sprityo definitely has some skill: he's not a poor player, he's a competent-but-quiet one.

thanks I try my best.

[sprityo]

I distinctly recall Jack started D3 with {Epi, Rabbit, Colin}.
sprityo, am I misremembering?

In truth I don’t take notes. I happened to just make that vote list yesterday in google sheets


So I can’t remember what jack’s votes were s the start. If anything I looked through his ISO for day 3 and couldn’t find a legitimate 3 people he listed. So I made a crapshoot. Soon after posting that table jack corrected me on what his pool was, which I assume he kept until EOD.

[Evenstar]

I distinctly recall Jack started D3 with {Epi, Rabbit, Colin}.
sprityo, am I misremembering?

In truth I don’t take notes. I happened to just make that vote list yesterday in google sheets


So I can’t remember what jack’s votes were s the start. If anything I looked through his ISO for day 3 and couldn’t find a legitimate 3 people he listed. So I made a crapshoot. Soon after posting that table jack corrected me on what his pool was, which I assume he kept until EOD.

[Master Radishes]

The case against Sprityo

There’s obviously less here, since Sprit has posted less. But let’s see what we got.

--D1 he made an opening post that was basically fluff, e.g. ‘Oh these two people are fighting, I’ll stay out of that’ with no analytical content or anything. I called him on it and several agreed, and Sprit’s response was to basically say he hadn’t intended to be analytical, just a catch up for himself. I still know why he needed to *post* it then.

--D2 he was one of the slankers, and was generally ignored until closer to the end. I think I was the one to first raise this. Sprit…again didn’t really have much of a response. But as I recall it, Nova and Sprit became the two real wagons by EoD2. My sense of the thread at that point was that it was 50/50. The fact Sprit remained could suggest the scum voted Nova (presumably as a bloc, since it’s private). This is interesting, as if it was a v/v situation why did they choose to help lynch the bigger slanker? It could indicate Sprit was a wolf wagon in this situation.

--Sprit had that emotional outburst; that’s a post that is easily faked. He’s certainly seemed calmer since.

--In D3 there was more activity, but the quality of contribution remained variable. Aside from a couple insightful moments, which are somewhat NAI anyway, he coasted through without ever really being under the heaviest of fire.

--His start this Day has been better. Although now that Eva and I are going at it, he seems content to recede to the background again.



Unfortunately that’s about all I remember from Sprit. And a lot of it relies on speculation.

There’s a very plausible world where Sprit is mafia here – it doesn’t take much to imagine it.

[mention]sprityo[/mention] any chance you have a recent game where you were scum (or even town) for us to compare you to?

[Master Radishes]

Evenstar, do you want to keep going back and forth? I feel like we've quickly reached a point where we're mainly flat out disagreeing with each other and there's no real room for continued discussion. But let me know if you want particular responses from me.

For the record, I am taking your responses seriously. Several have even, I daresay, been good, and have made me reconsider some angles I was tunneling into. And a Sprityo world fits a bit too well with how D2/D3 has unfolded.

Yesterday was my 'it's definitely Eva' day. Today I plan to mull over Sprit more closely.

[Master Radishes]

Radish/Jack: Possible.
Radish's flip-flopping on Jack suggests that this could be the case, especially when combined with Jack's very strong town read on Radish for no discernible reason. Jack is a frontrunner in the voting, but is not lynched.

You have, once again, misremembered.

Jack had a scumread on me for the majority of D2/D3. I think near the end I slipped up into the 'middle' but he never had a 'very strong town read' on me. For the majority of our time with him he scumread me.

You may need to re-do your entire analysis now.

No, that was Rabbit.

'Bullshit, you're the voyeur!'

No, but seriously, Jack SRed me for most of the past two phases. He so rarely explained his reads that they switched without us noticing sometimes, but egotistical as I am I watch for my name, and he definitely had me in his bottom 3 on several occasions, stretching back to the beginning of D2 when I'm pretty sure he was the first to do so as a result of my vote analysis.

[Master Radishes]

Not enough 'BWONNNGGG' today.

[Evenstar]

Evenstar, do you want to keep going back and forth? I feel like we've quickly reached a point where we're mainly flat out disagreeing with each other and there's no real room for continued discussion. But let me know if you want particular responses from me.

For the record, I am taking your responses seriously. Several have even, I daresay, been good, and have made me reconsider some angles I was tunneling into. And a Sprityo world fits a bit too well with how D2/D3 has unfolded.

Yesterday was my 'it's definitely Eva' day. Today I plan to mull over Sprit more closely.

I'm frustrated, but I would prefer to keep talking given the off chance you're town, which I do think is still possible.

[Evenstar]

Radish/Jack: Possible.
Radish's flip-flopping on Jack suggests that this could be the case, especially when combined with Jack's very strong town read on Radish for no discernible reason. Jack is a frontrunner in the voting, but is not lynched.

You have, once again, misremembered.

Jack had a scumread on me for the majority of D2/D3. I think near the end I slipped up into the 'middle' but he never had a 'very strong town read' on me. For the majority of our time with him he scumread me.

You may need to re-do your entire analysis now.

No, that was Rabbit.

'Bullshit, you're the voyeur!'

No, but seriously, Jack SRed me for most of the past two phases. He so rarely explained his reads that they switched without us noticing sometimes, but egotistical as I am I watch for my name, and he definitely had me in his bottom 3 on several occasions, stretching back to the beginning of D2 when I'm pretty sure he was the first to do so as a result of my vote analysis.

I think this is >75% likely to be total bullshit and you're just hoping I don't recall Jack's reads of you well, but unfortunately I don't recall Jack's reads super well and your name sounds like Rabbit's. Having been kinda checked out on D2 is not helping either.

I'll go through my notes again just in case I happen to have something helpful, and I'll rerun my earlier analysis assuming your world just in case magic happens. If you want to prod me about anything else specific, go ahead.

[Evenstar]

--D2 he was one of the slankers, and was generally ignored until closer to the end. I think I was the one to first raise this. Sprit…again didn’t really have much of a response. But as I recall it, Nova and Sprit became the two real wagons by EoD2. My sense of the thread at that point was that it was 50/50. The fact Sprit remained could suggest the scum voted Nova (presumably as a bloc, since it’s private). This is interesting, as if it was a v/v situation why did they choose to help lynch the bigger slanker? It could indicate Sprit was a wolf wagon in this situation.

It's worth noting that Nova had a terrible EoD vote on D1, which made them part of the 112 wagon, which IMO scum would by-default want to avoid resolving. Sprityo was off in the weeds somewhere at the EoD1 as far as I recall.

In retrospect, I also feel that the Nova lynch was far too safe and unanimous for Nova to have actually been scum.

It's also worth noting that Sprityo's ducked a serious chance of being lynched twice now. His wagon at EoD3 is very much one of the frontrunners: both Colin and Pawn are trailing him. I think scum moved off his wagon in favour of Pawn or Colin: the question is why.

In the world where Pawn is lynched, it's because Sprityo is less of a threat. In the world where Colin is lynched, it's because Sprityo is scum. I think it's convenient that Sprityo believes Pawn was lynched.

[Evenstar]

Yeesh. I hate writing long posts. Taking a break.


So, in a sentence or two, what's your guys' life stories?

"My life is weird and my work is never over."

[Evenstar]

I'm off for the night. Another 24 hours shift tomorrow. Leave me questions if you have any and i'll be able to respond in the next 12 hours more than likely.

Why weren't you lynched yesterday?

Sprityo's been back in thread and answered another of my questions, but hasn't answered this.

[Evenstar]

Okay, rerunning my earlier "why was Colin killed if Pawn was lynched" analysis, this time with Jack hating Radishes' turnipy guts... the entire first section is still correct. The Radish/Jack team becomes less likely, but can definitely still exist 'cause distancing is a thing.

Reviewing the kill motive section, I notice that I have completely forgotten Dom exists. Whoops. Let's pencil that in, shall we?

Kill likelihood in the Jack/Radish scenario stays the same, since no reads external to the team have changed. Dom is useful to them because he scumreads me and Rabbit, so he's never NK'd imo.

Epi/Sprityo is if anything pushed more towards killing me or Rabbit, because Jack could be convinced to ML Radish more easily and therefore the pair can stay. I think this team kills Rabbit every time under these assumptions. As for the Dom question... I think they leave him alive as a fellow Syndi who's likely to draw votes off the relatively quieter Sprityo, especially as Epi has him pocketed.

Epi/Radish is the most interesting. In this world, the scum are faced with a real dilemma:

Kill Rabbit (Scumreads Epi, townreads Radish.)
Kill Eva (Scumreads both Radish & Epi.)
Kill Sprityo (ML Bait, favorable reads.)
Kill Jack (ML Bait, scumreads Radish.)
Kill Colin (ML Bait? Unclear reads.)
Kill Dom (ML Bait, favorable reads.)

Interestingly, Colin in this situation is damn near unlynchable, because the only two townies who are willing to vote him are fellow ML-Baits Jack and Sprityo, and in a F3 that looks like Jack/Colin/Radish or Sprityo/Colin/Epi, the obviously strongest player of the three probably gets lynched more often than not. If Epi/Radish were concerned about a potential JK/Doctor, I can see them killing Colin here, especially since it comes with the side benefit of making the Pawn lynch look like a nightkill.

[sprityo]

I'm off for the night. Another 24 hours shift tomorrow. Leave me questions if you have any and i'll be able to respond in the next 12 hours more than likely.

Why weren't you lynched yesterday?

Sprityo's been back in thread and answered another of my questions, but hasn't answered this.

My bad I somehow missed this one?

And I don’t have an answer for you on why I wasn’t lynched.

What I believe is mafia in the case if lynching colin that they needed to figure out who Town would pile on more? A relatively absent player or someone who’d been at least trying to play. With pawn it’s more so mafia taking advantage of stray votes at EOD.

[Evenstar]

I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.

[sprityo]

@sprityo any chance you have a recent game where you were scum (or even town) for us to compare you to?

Escape from Sockville Pen Most recent. Won, Survived
Retrocausality Mafia Lost, Shot Day 5
Vanilla Mafia Won, Lynched Day 2
DFS Mafia Lost, Surrendered Day 2
Chinese Food Won, Survived
Dethy Game Won, Survived
Pokemon Mafia Won, Lynched Day 3

All seven of my mafia games on the site

[sprityo]

I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.

Are you referring to motive as a "need to kill" or a motive as in "possibility to vote." And if so why would i need Pawn lynched? What is my motive?

[Evenstar]

it's 4:30 AM here btw

so yeah, @Sprityo it'd be great if you could engage with Radishes' case and stuff so I can see what you have to say in the morning

[sprityo]

In the world where Pawn is lynched, it's because Sprityo is less of a threat. In the world where Colin is lynched, it's because Sprityo is scum. I think it's convenient that Sprityo believes Pawn was lynched.

adressing my last post. Are you referring to a motive to kill pawn or colin, because i read it as pawn

[sprityo]

it's 4:30 AM here btw

so yeah, @Sprityo it'd be great if you could engage with Radishes' case and stuff so I can see what you have to say in the morning

[Evenstar]

I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.

Are you referring to motive as a "need to kill" or a motive as in "possibility to vote." And if so why would i need Pawn lynched? What is my motive?

Only you had motive to lynch Colin, sorry, it's phrased confusingly. Any scumteam would have preferred to lynch Pawn, IMO: a Colin lynch feels like a safety play, the kind of thing that you would pile on if one of your team members was under significant pressure.

[Evenstar]

I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.

Are you referring to motive as a "need to kill" or a motive as in "possibility to vote." And if so why would i need Pawn lynched? What is my motive?

Only you had motive to lynch Colin, sorry, it's phrased confusingly. Any scumteam would have preferred to lynch Pawn, IMO: a Colin lynch feels like a safety play, the kind of thing that you would pile on if one of your team members was under significant pressure.

Though I guess that doesn't exactly rule out Jack/Radishes, on reflection.

[Evenstar]

Anyway, goodnight!

[sprityo]

--D1 he made an opening post that was basically fluff, e.g. ‘Oh these two people are fighting, I’ll stay out of that’ with no analytical content or anything. I called him on it and several agreed, and Sprit’s response was to basically say he hadn’t intended to be analytical, just a catch up for himself. I still know why he needed to *post* it then.

What's the alternative then, to not participate? To not post anything and remain a lurker. At the minimum content is made and with content comes discussion and analysis. Not necessarily by me, but from the game as a whole? I also do not take notes. So just putting things in a tldr in thread based on my own thoughts at the time is a use for me as well. Albeit this was before we knew about the shenanigans now wasn't it?

--D2 he was one of the slankers, and was generally ignored until closer to the end. I think I was the one to first raise this. Sprit…again didn’t really have much of a response. But as I recall it, Nova and Sprit became the two real wagons by EoD2. My sense of the thread at that point was that it was 50/50. The fact Sprit remained could suggest the scum voted Nova (presumably as a bloc, since it’s private). This is interesting, as if it was a v/v situation why did they choose to help lynch the bigger slanker? It could indicate Sprit was a wolf wagon in this situation.

--Sprit had that emotional outburst; that’s a post that is easily faked. He’s certainly seemed calmer since.

I felt my point was made with that post. But a long night with little sleep coupled with my pet peeve of voting without backing really set me off. I couldn't tell you why nova was the wagon over me, perhaps mafia has kept me alive for the sole purpose of having a pocket mislynch. It makes a wine situation after all

--In D3 there was more activity, but the quality of contribution remained variable. Aside from a couple insightful moments, which are somewhat NAI anyway, he coasted through without ever really being under the heaviest of fire.

yes

--His start this Day has been better. Although now that Eva and I are going at it, he seems content to recede to the background again.

I had my discussion with Evenstar earlier and haven't had anything else to add or say as of recent. Maybe it's my military logic, but straight forward answers will satisfy my questions. Find a problem, solve it. And if you can't you just do your best and/or ask for help.

[sprityo]

I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.

Are you referring to motive as a "need to kill" or a motive as in "possibility to vote." And if so why would i need Pawn lynched? What is my motive?

Only you had motive to lynch Colin, sorry, it's phrased confusingly. Any scumteam would have preferred to lynch Pawn, IMO: a Colin lynch feels like a safety play, the kind of thing that you would pile on if one of your team members was under significant pressure.

Understandable. But I still have the same question:

What is my direct motive, my personal motive for lynching Colin? Not a hypothetical scumteam situation. Colin, (much like how I was to pawn) was there out of virtue of following the rules of needing three people to vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Seemingly only members of the site staff have the ability to use the quote function within a locked thread. Many of our games here don't feature locked phases, so this isn't something we encounter often. With that in mind, I will restrict usage of the quote function for everyone for the remainder of the game during any locked phase. That doesn't mean players cannot still directly extract content via copy-paste and/or the usage of generic quote tags -- these just won't call back to the original post. Any questions, PM me. Thanks y'all.

[Evenstar]

I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.

Are you referring to motive as a "need to kill" or a motive as in "possibility to vote." And if so why would i need Pawn lynched? What is my motive?

Only you had motive to lynch Colin, sorry, it's phrased confusingly. Any scumteam would have preferred to lynch Pawn, IMO: a Colin lynch feels like a safety play, the kind of thing that you would pile on if one of your team members was under significant pressure.

Understandable. But I still have the same question:

What is my direct motive, my personal motive for lynching Colin? Not a hypothetical scumteam situation. Colin, (much like how I was to pawn) was there out of virtue of following the rules of needing three people to vote.

My instincts say "self-preservation", but when I actually think about it, that makes no sense. If you literally didn't care who got lynched so long as it wasn't you, you'd almost certainly have gone for Jack over Colin, given their relative positions.

I could hypothesize a scumteam of you and Jack, but I don't think the day we got yesterday reflects that. If you and Jack were both scum, I would have expected to see a lot more attempts from both of you to change or get out of the PoE. Jack's activity did kick up, but I don't think that's enough to make this world plausible. My brain just wants to reduce all the complexity here to a simple, binary choice that I can get right, and that's never how the real world works.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Seemingly only members of the site staff have the ability to use the quote function within a locked thread. Many of our games here don't feature locked phases, so this isn't something we encounter often. With that in mind, I will restrict usage of the quote function for everyone for the remainder of the game during any locked phase. That doesn't mean players cannot still directly extract content via copy-paste and/or the usage of generic quote tags -- these just won't call back to the original post. Any questions, PM me. Thanks y'all.

To be clear, that only applies when the thread is locked. Nothing changes right now.

[Master Radishes]

On my way home from work. I've been reading during breaks but need to make dinner and such first so I'll be a little while longer. [mention]sprityo[/mention] if you think you need to make a decision before EoD ping me and I'll make time to talk about whatever you may want.

[Evenstar]

I went through my notes again, and I didn't find anything useful from D2 or D3, but I did find my saved votal from D1. So let's have a look at it.

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, [boo/Spiny Creature]
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: [Rej/ColinIsCool], [Player #30]

Coloring it based on my current reads sans Sprityo and Radish...
Green for "mech clear", cyan for "townread"
Red for "mech scum", orange for "scumread"

[10] Dragomir- Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, [Spiny Creature/boo]
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: Rej/ColinIsCool, [Player #30]

This feels bad to horrible for multiple reasons. Not enough scum on 112, LLD does not advance as scum, overall this cannot be the world.

Okay, I went and did some fucking proper analysis on this and it's cool.

My full scumteam guesses at this point are:

Sprityo World:
Sprityo
Epignosis
112
Quin or Michelle
TonyStarkPrime
Benson or Vanity

Radishes World:
Radishes
Epi or Jack
Quin or Michelle
TonyStarkPrime
Texas Cloverleaf
Elephant or Creature