Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Evenstar]

People I have removed from contention and why:
Evenstar: I'm town.
Dom: Makes no sense as a partner to either Radishes or Sprityo.
Rabbit: If he were scum, he would be here now, pocketing me. Also, Pawn would likely not be dead.
ColinisCool: Died last night and we still went to F3.
Pawn Lelouch: Died last night and we still went to F3.
Lady Lambdadelta: Never, ever stays in Layer 2 if she has a choice.
Novaselinenever: Was a lazy consensus lynch which faced little to no opposition.
NanookTheConqueror: Was almost certainly nightkilled.
Hyena: Always advances to deeper levels if he has a choice.

I also removed Nutella based on my heavy townread on her from D1, but now that I type that out I realize it's not a good reason. She could be scum in Sprityo's "Benson or Vanity" slot.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I/we may be slightly late (15ish minutes) in getting the end-of-phase post in. We'll do our best.

[Evenstar]

There are four levels to this dream. We know there's probably about a 1/4 scum-to-town ratio in all of them, and it's pretty clear that scum have been descending deeper on their way towards this Final 3. We also know that the higher/lower levels still exist and keep playing due to JJJ's mess-up with the Spiny lynch.

I'm also sticking with my assumption that the scum can pick the people from their team that they want to send deeper, because otherwise they could end up with an inactive like Quin as their rep at final 3 just from sheer bad luck.

So the layer breakdown ends up looking like this:

Limbo: Exactly 1 Scum
Radishes
Sprityo
Evenstar

Layer 3: Started with 9 players, so likely 2 scum. One scum is now in Limbo, so there's one left here.
Epi
Jack
Dom
Rabbit
Pawn
Colin

Layer 2: Started with 16 players, so at max 4 scum. At least two of them continue on to higher levels, so there are 1-2 scum left here.
Macdougall
112
Michelle
Quin
LLD
Novaselinenever
Nanook

Layer 1: Started with 30 players, so at max 8 scum.
I think Pawn is correct that 8 is too large for team scum, though; probably one or two of those are 3ps. I went with Pawn's estimate of six team scum both because that seems more correct and because it's accurate to the movie, so there ought to be 2-3 scum left here. Note that this includes Dragomir, who is dead scum.

Benson
Vanity
Trustworthy Liberal
juliets
Creature
Nutella
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime
Texas
Elephant
[Player Whose Name Is Lost To The Mists Of Time]
Hyena
Spiny Creature
Dragomir

As you can see, names in the lower layers have much less chance of being scum, and in some of the higher layers there are few enough uncleared people that we can say things like "it's 100% certain that either Jack or Epi is scum."

We can then take these associative pools of "at max two scum in these four people" and put them on top of the one actual vote tally we've got.

[Master Radishes]

A couple quick things I feel compelled to respond to:

I think this is >75% likely to be total bullshit and you're just hoping I don't recall Jack's reads of you well, but unfortunately I don't recall Jack's reads super well and your name sounds like Rabbit's. Having been kinda checked out on D2 is not helping either.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Jack's read on me (but I'm right). He kept his cards close to his chest, but he definitely mentioned on multiple occasions finding me scummy, although at times I slipped out of his bottom 3.

In retrospect, I also feel that the Nova lynch was far too safe and unanimous for Nova to have actually been scum.

Agreed. And even though Sprit was the clear second option, it didn't really surprise me to see Nova dropped. Something about the thread feel made me feel that was the preferred lynch despite plenty of people putting Sprit in their bottom 3.

What that means about Sprit, I don't know. Could easily be v/v; could potentially still be w/v. I mean, I suppose a world exists where the mafia, knowing the lynch will return to the previous level rather than die, pile on Nova to avoid suspicions after he survives the lynch or something. But that's a bit out there.

[Master Radishes]

I'm not feeling the worldbuilding, to be honest, Eva. There's way too much WIFOM in it for my liking, and I've already spotted a couple leaps in logic I'm not sure I agree with. (I think this is NAI for you, to be clear.)

But if it helps you, I suppose you do you.

[sprityo]

I’m going to be taking a nap for about an hour or two. Then I’ll be here until end of day for the final bouts and discussion

[Evenstar]

Straight color-by-max-depth looks like this:
Cyan: Layer 1.
Blue: Layer 2.
Purple: Layer 3.
Pink: Limbo.

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, Spiny Creature
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: ColinIsCool, [Player #30]

Here's what I get when I slot in flips and clears:
(Green for town, red for scum)

[10] Dragomir- Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME,Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, Spiny Creature
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: ColinIsCool, [Player #30]

Quin and Michelle are not scum together, Mac and 112 are not scum together. There is probably at least 1 scum on Drago and 2-3 on 112, with the remainder off-wagon. We know one of the scum on Drago is either Jack or Epi, so the other(s) must be in {Creature, Tony, Elephant.} The busser is in {Radishes, Benson, Vanity, Long Con, TL, juliets}. The remaining 2-3 scum are off-wagon in {Sprityo, Quin, Michelle, Mac, 112, Texas.} This makes a Sprityo world a 112 world and a Radish world a Texas world, due to the scumteam likely preferring to leave someone competent behind on each layer. I honestly don't recall all of the associative work I did here to get the final teams after explaining the rest of it and doing the BBcode for the colors, but at least y'all can have my data and I'll answer questions to the best of my ability. *sweatdrop*

[Evenstar]

*one of the scum on 112 is either Jack or Epi, sorry.

[Evenstar]

I'm not feeling the worldbuilding, to be honest, Eva. There's way too much WIFOM in it for my liking, and I've already spotted a couple leaps in logic I'm not sure I agree with. (I think this is NAI for you, to be clear.)

But if it helps you, I suppose you do you.

I'd appreciate it if you'd explain where you think my process is faulty, here.

[Master Radishes]

So. Went through a few of the games sprit posted to show his scum game. None look *exactly* like his game here, but:

--There were a couple where he slanked hard; his few posts looked a bit more analytical than what I remember from D1-D3 in this game, but his activity was nonetheless at the same level.
--There was one where it was the opposite: he was very active, but his posts were short and fluffy.

Basically, inconclusive. But it certainly hasn't ruled this iteration of Sprit out from being scum.

[Master Radishes]

--D1 he made an opening post that was basically fluff, e.g. ‘Oh these two people are fighting, I’ll stay out of that’ with no analytical content or anything. I called him on it and several agreed, and Sprit’s response was to basically say he hadn’t intended to be analytical, just a catch up for himself. I still know why he needed to *post* it then.

What's the alternative then, to not participate? To not post anything and remain a lurker. At the minimum content is made and with content comes discussion and analysis. Not necessarily by me, but from the game as a whole? I also do not take notes. So just putting things in a tldr in thread based on my own thoughts at the time is a use for me as well. Albeit this was before we knew about the shenanigans now wasn't it?

--D2 he was one of the slankers, and was generally ignored until closer to the end. I think I was the one to first raise this. Sprit…again didn’t really have much of a response. But as I recall it, Nova and Sprit became the two real wagons by EoD2. My sense of the thread at that point was that it was 50/50. The fact Sprit remained could suggest the scum voted Nova (presumably as a bloc, since it’s private). This is interesting, as if it was a v/v situation why did they choose to help lynch the bigger slanker? It could indicate Sprit was a wolf wagon in this situation.

--Sprit had that emotional outburst; that’s a post that is easily faked. He’s certainly seemed calmer since.

I felt my point was made with that post. But a long night with little sleep coupled with my pet peeve of voting without backing really set me off. I couldn't tell you why nova was the wagon over me, perhaps mafia has kept me alive for the sole purpose of having a pocket mislynch. It makes a wine situation after all

--In D3 there was more activity, but the quality of contribution remained variable. Aside from a couple insightful moments, which are somewhat NAI anyway, he coasted through without ever really being under the heaviest of fire.

yes

--His start this Day has been better. Although now that Eva and I are going at it, he seems content to recede to the background again.

I had my discussion with Evenstar earlier and haven't had anything else to add or say as of recent. Maybe it's my military logic, but straight forward answers will satisfy my questions. Find a problem, solve it. And if you can't you just do your best and/or ask for help.

This defense is...fine? I mean, to be fair, there was little that could be said to some of the points I raised that would 'set the record straight' or anything. But this is still null as a response, I feel.

[Master Radishes]

E.g.

Interestingly, Colin in this situation is damn near unlynchable, because the only two townies who are willing to vote him are fellow ML-Baits Jack and Sprityo, and in a F3 that looks like Jack/Colin/Radish or Sprityo/Colin/Epi, the obviously strongest player of the three probably gets lynched more often than not. If Epi/Radish were concerned about a potential JK/Doctor, I can see them killing Colin here, especially since it comes with the side benefit of making the Pawn lynch look like a nightkill.

Why do you think no one is willing to vote Colin? He's in everyone's PoE to some extent, regardless of people's reads on each other. And anyway, Colin was sheeping me and calling me town, so he's someone I as scum would be happy to have with my in F3.

Also, why does the 'obviously strongest player' likely get lynched? I don't think either Jack or Sprit are going to give in to paranoia. Epi could make a good case for either one and convince the other easily, I think. I like to think I'd hold my own as well.



But I don't plan to get into a discussion about this. I don't find worldbuilding like this helpful, as it's all just speculation. Keep doing it if you want, but it's not how I plan to spend these final hours.

[Master Radishes]

Off on a tangent: the game's not ending with this lynch, right? That would be unfair on everyone else.

Curious to see where we go next.

[Evenstar]

A couple quick things I feel compelled to respond to:

I think this is >75% likely to be total bullshit and you're just hoping I don't recall Jack's reads of you well, but unfortunately I don't recall Jack's reads super well and your name sounds like Rabbit's. Having been kinda checked out on D2 is not helping either.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Jack's read on me (but I'm right). He kept his cards close to his chest, but he definitely mentioned on multiple occasions finding me scummy, although at times I slipped out of his bottom 3.

In retrospect, I also feel that the Nova lynch was far too safe and unanimous for Nova to have actually been scum.

Agreed. And even though Sprit was the clear second option, it didn't really surprise me to see Nova dropped. Something about the thread feel made me feel that was the preferred lynch despite plenty of people putting Sprit in their bottom 3.

What that means about Sprit, I don't know. Could easily be v/v; could potentially still be w/v. I mean, I suppose a world exists where the mafia, knowing the lynch will return to the previous level rather than die, pile on Nova to avoid suspicions after he survives the lynch or something. But that's a bit out there.

Yeah, no, I think it's pretty damn certain that Nova was town.

Having thought more about things overnight and done some processing, I think that you are more likely to have a correct recollection of what Jack was doing, but the potential associative is damning enough that you might risk a lie if you're scum. My bullshit meter has dropped a bit, though, and your willingness to consider Sprityo is worth something, though a scum you might have started to worry that your tunnel looked fake...



I think so far you've given better answers than Sprityo has, even though you've been annoyed by my pushing you on things that you felt were unfair. You feel invested and present in the thread, while Sprityo's ducked the question of why he wasn't lynched and then answered with "eh I dunno."

Some other people on D3 - I think it was Pawn again, maybe also Iaafr - also described Sprityo as "flat" or "lifeless". I really didn't see it at the time, because of Sprit's outburst at EoD2, but... Now that I'm up close and personal with him, I can see what they were saying. It's not that he doesn't have or express emotions, it's that he doesn't feel like he's invested in and playing the same game as me. He's very self-effacing, rolls his eyes at my calling him a "competent but quiet player", and went out of his way to ask "why are you alive" at the beginning of the day while pre-emptively defending himself against accusations that he ought not to be. He also felt like he had to justify not voting someone, and said that he "felt he didn't need to apply pressure on anyone." This... doesn't feel like someone who's solving.

On the other hand, I'm still like 50-50 on you just blatantly lying to me.

Both of you have plausible worlds. I feel like Sprityo's is a bit more of a stretch than yours, but neither of you are really ruled out. The votal itself does give me some useful information in that I now know that Sprityo tagged me with a vote at the end of D1, something I had honestly completely forgotten. Your vote on Dragomir is also a good look.

Considering other people's reads... I should likely discard Epignosis, because he's very probable scum, alas. Pawn had misgivings about both you and Sprityo, IIRC. Rabbit would vouch for you, but not for Sprityo...

*flicks through her notes again*

- wait,

Dom: {Rabbit, Radish, Jack}
Pawn: {Colin, Dom, Jack}
Radish: {Jack, Sprit, ???}
Epi: {Colin, Rabbit, Jack}
Rabbit: {Jack, Dom, Colin}
Colin: {Jack, Rabbit, Dom}
Sprityo: {Jack, Rabbit, Colin}
Jack: {Pawn, Radish, Rabbit}

lol ok that explains some things

This looks to be from early D3

so yeah, I was wrong re: Jack, I apologize

... you're unclear here, Sprityo is voting for Colin, (the lynch/kill), Rabbit, (who might as well be conftown), and Jack. (Who was obvious MLbait imo, but could still be scum.)

Epi is voting Colin, Rabbit, Jack too. I don't know the order of that but I don't like it.

- let me glance back at my earlier chart again, if Epi is scum I want to do the opposite of what he was advocating.

... Epi ends the day with Sprityo in his bottom three, but I would bet a good chunk of change he voted Pawn.

...

.... yeah, you are correct that this is not helpful. I need to focus on what you and Sprityo have done today, not retreat into mech that feels solid but has tons of assumptions baked in.

[Evenstar]

Off on a tangent: the game's not ending with this lynch, right? That would be unfair on everyone else.

Curious to see where we go next.

Seems unlikely, yeah. Hopefully somewhere with open votes.

[Evenstar]

Open Question:

What's the Singular biggest reason to Town read the other two players

And what is the Singular biggest reason to read them Mafia?

I'll be doing mine

Kind of did this above ^ but will do it again in brief.

Town!Eva = Spinyboo's Mason as per *that* post
Scum!Eva = overall passive and uncertain play

Town!Sprit = insightful posts that show townie thought process
Scum!Sprit = macro-level play is uninspiring; has been laying low

Say, Radishes, can you point at a specific example of an insightful post from Sprityo?

[Evenstar]

(Aside from the doublevoter thing.)

[Master Radishes]

Open Question:

What's the Singular biggest reason to Town read the other two players

And what is the Singular biggest reason to read them Mafia?

I'll be doing mine

Kind of did this above ^ but will do it again in brief.

Town!Eva = Spinyboo's Mason as per *that* post
Scum!Eva = overall passive and uncertain play

Town!Sprit = insightful posts that show townie thought process
Scum!Sprit = macro-level play is uninspiring; has been laying low

Say, Radishes, can you point at a specific example of an insightful post from Sprityo?

He also made a good point in D3 about...something about how a MK could have been chosen by a scum who hadn't advanced to the new level. (A few people were speculating on the choice of Nook, I think, and using it only against the people in our level.)

I also feel post 18 in this thread showed some good thought. But now it stands out a bit since there hasn't been the same level of follow up.

[Master Radishes]

I'm going to take a few minutes to step away. Send me a telepathic missive if Sprit shows up.

[Evenstar]

Yeah, one-hour-left nerves are starting to creep in here too.

Oh, and [mention]sprityo[/mention]
You were asking why I would ever reverse my reads at LyLo? Here's a recent MU article that basically sums up why:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost3623732

I think this article's advice is pretty much applicable to any lategame situation where you're still alive and Town.

[Evenstar]

also @Evenstar if your graph is correct, then it's still the same question, of why did mafia want pawn dead, and we can assume that his failed lynch was why he was killed.

It seems pretty clear the mafia wanted to break up the towncore of me/pawn/rabbit and therefore pushed/killed the weak link. What's your hypothesis?

If I'm scum and there's a towncore I want to break up, I don't MK the weakest link, I MK the strongest.

... unless you believe there is a doctor. Also, I was talking about a potential pawn lynch here: I don't think many scumteams are brave enough to just outright gladiate an obvious townie.

[sprityo]

It's 2:20 am in the morning, i have 4 hours of rest up until now, and i dont drink coffee

please hold while i gather my thoughts and submit my vote

[Evenstar]

Open Question:

What's the Singular biggest reason to Town read the other two players

And what is the Singular biggest reason to read them Mafia?

I'll be doing mine

Kind of did this above ^ but will do it again in brief.

Town!Eva = Spinyboo's Mason as per *that* post
Scum!Eva = overall passive and uncertain play

Town!Sprit = insightful posts that show townie thought process
Scum!Sprit = macro-level play is uninspiring; has been laying low

Say, Radishes, can you point at a specific example of an insightful post from Sprityo?

He also made a good point in D3 about...something about how a MK could have been chosen by a scum who hadn't advanced to the new level. (A few people were speculating on the choice of Nook, I think, and using it only against the people in our level.)

I also feel post 18 in this thread showed some good thought. But now it stands out a bit since there hasn't been the same level of follow up.

I'm not sure if I can give Sprityo towncred for speculating that the mafia kill could have been on the orders of someone who didn't advance when if he's a mafioso he knows damn well whether or not that happened.

What do you feel was insightful in 18?

[Evenstar]

It's 2:20 am in the morning, i have 4 hours of rest up until now, and i dont drink coffee

please hold while i gather my thoughts and submit my vote

As Epi would say, "make a good decision."

[Evenstar]

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention]
Sprit's here. Sending electronically 'cause my telepathy gland is on the fritz.

[Master Radishes]

I'm here.

[Master Radishes]

BWWWOOONNNGGGGGG

[Master Radishes]

Who wants to go first?

[Evenstar]

Fifteen minutes. Still haven't decided if I mean this vote or not but it's better than no vote.

Was really hoping to have more time for final discussion than this.

[sprityo]

This is it. This is probably one of the biggest points of the game is this phase. Seeing both a recent finalist in action and a mafia veteran of exceptional skill really reminds me how outclassed I am.
I'm starting off with how each player has progressed throughout the day.

Master Radishes - 42 posts:

Yesterday Mr expresses his thoughts on Final 3 situations, stating they are "the worst" and at the same time his experience has told him it's obvious who the lynch will be. He mentions that he believe this to be another obvious lynch case. First meat post has MR replying to our general idea posts of what we had thought of the other players until now. I'll be covering this below in conjunction with all the follow ups to that post. This is MR's general reads post which he then translates into my Strongest Points question post i asked.

Evenstar - everything I'm seeing looks the opposite of the town!Eva I've seen. I've never played with her, and it's different to watch from spec chat, but she looks...uncertain. Also, the Nook and potentially Pawn kills fit her meta perfectly. And lest we forget her D1 vote at 3 mins remaining nearly prevented Drago being lynched. The big point against this theory is if Spiny spewed her Mason, but without access to the main thread I can't check.

Sprityo - has been laying low and is now suddenly here and active, which is nagl for anyone. D1-D3 posting left me uninspired. Emotional outbursts can be faked. The big point against this case is that he's also shown a propensity to be much more insightful than his low-posting would indicate, such as countering theories with logical points others had missed, and how this round his biggest post ^^ showed me he's been paying much more attention than I realised.


I won't 'hide' the fact that I am still leaning towards Evenstar as scum. But I suppose in F3 due diligence is needed, so I'll duly and diligently try to see the opposite world.

Initially MR gives a pretty heavy scum lean on Evenstar with the exception of something we can't prove, even stating he leans Evenstar is scum. For myself he says my sudden change in frequency and activity is a bad look and that up until recently i've essentially been non-existent, finished with a backhanded compliment. It doesn't make it a point against his case since he had already said that my change was not a good look. so saying that i've been paying more attention than he had realized doesn't give me any kind of positive light. You could say the "countering theories with logical points" is a positive if it wasn't rightfully dismissed later down the line. For good reason too because logic =/= town. This post aims to satisfy a trend.

The rest of the the has left me the same as i've felt about MR the entire game. There, playing, but hardly convincing. He explains and responds with things that sound good but more or less not inspiring. I have to weigh this versus Evenstar now-

[sprityo]

I will be taking exactly 10 minutes to read evenstar

[Master Radishes]

10 mins with 11 mins left. Keeping this as dramatic as possible, I see.

[Master Radishes]

This actually makes me miss votes-locked-in LYLO. At least the pain is over quickly.

[Evenstar]

I vote we all start playing this right now.

[Master Radishes]

Have opened it in another tab and am doing so now.

[Master Radishes]

I've been in F3 twice. Once as scum, once as town. Won both.

*epic Inception music*

This will be MR's greatest challenge yet.

[Evenstar]

I will be taking exactly 10 minutes to read evenstar

So that nobody else has any time to react to your vote? How towny of you.

[Master Radishes]

Yeah, I'd love to be able to talk to Sprit about his read of me.

Oh well.

[sprityo]

Immediately off the bad

- kill suggestion
-weird lylo strategy

Frankly, I don't really want to argue motives, becuse that's inherently a sea of wine. Nonetheless, I'll try and engage your points.

first big post replying to me, which is odd considering all the voting analysis which is in itself wine. We've had a lot of wine today. I am a contributor no doubt, but I dont know how much evenstar actually didnt want to argue motives only to make a couple big posts regarding motives and the night kill. which she seems to think will be a big part in her problem solving come later in the day

-the confusion on who voted where due to my shortcomings is not anything important, but insightful. Also why would scum evenstar keep a record of the votes? As mafia i personally wouldnt care, regardless, moving on.

You're town because you're the quiet obvious mislynch bait in a final 3.

Radishes is town because Rabbit and Pawn both read him town, and then Pawn got killed.

You're scum because all your major contributions are information collection, not analysis.

Radishes is scum because... in Pawn-lynch world, because he's not dead. In Pawn-kill world, because he's a much more plausible partner to Epi than you.

- [sprityo] is scum because you made a big show of "oh no I'm getting lynched" at the end of yesterday, and now you're confidently assuring me that you were never in any danger.

I liked these posts.

Spoiler: show

Let's start with me.

@sprityo
Frankly, it really goes against my instincts to be voting you right now. Radishes is inconsistent and wobbly, pushed me for stupid reasons, and accepted that the spiny post cleared me way too easily. I think, in my heart of hearts, even as I am voting you, that he's the scum here. I'm stomping on it 'cause I'm at lylo and therefore I am wrong.

So between the option of Radishes who I haven’t tried to scrutinize. The man who was drawing a lot of different view points from everyone yesterday (and I think day 2 as well?). Points of interest I remember about Radishes was his and Pawn’s “You’re copying me” type deal with reads

By all means I would be the one lynched here since Evenstar and Radihes have the same reads. But if mafia is picking who goes where...then that would be what they want and too easy. I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and go with that’s the case.

Radishes seemed to have pretty consistent reads from what I can remember as well. As in they didn’t change if at all. Evenstar is going to be a bag of cats to dissect

So the two real points against me appear to be my 'wobbly and inconsistent' play (what does that even mean?) and my 'pretty consistent reads' (which isn't true).

My play has been the same since the beginning; any wobbliness comes from three things:
(a) adapting my gameplay to the non-voting/non-rereading mechanics
(b) unfamiliarity with me/my meta
(c) the fact I never truly let go of my scum!Evenstar read and was trying to work around it

My reads did change:
(i) Jack went from mild SR to mild TR to strong SR (bottom 3) to strong TR
(ii) Colin went from TR to a bottom 3 SR
(iii) Epi went from SR to TR
(iv) Sprityo went from SR to uncertain TR
...etc. Rabbit was a strong TR throughout, but beyond that everything was in flux to some extent.

What I mean by "wobbly and inconsistent" is that you don't seem to really believe your own reads.

The fact that your reads have shifted over time is not inherently a bad thing, and in fact too-static reads are often a scumtell: what I take issue with is how your reads have shifted. I expect to be able to understand your reasoning for why certain people are town or scum, since we come from a similar environment and you claim to have some idea how my brain works and how to pitch me a case, but everything you've personally come up with has left me cold.

Exhibit A: Me
You called me scum D2&3 based on my late D1 vote, then said you were having doubts early in D3 and used that to justify accepting Spiny's post as a clear on me. When me and Pawn called you on it, you backtracked hastily. Today you're maintaining that your heavy scumread of me remained strong for the whole day. So what you said about having doubts on D3 was a lie, then?

Exhibit B: Jack
You scumread Jack early in D3, putting him in your bottom 3 IIRC. He remained there for some time, and then I made my post about how the current PoE felt bad and I thought Jack, Colin, Dom, Sprityo were all bad cases and that Jack in particular was ML bait because he has no defenders at all. You seemed vaguely convinced by this and moved off your scumread, but returned to it later in the day for reasons that aren't really clear to me, and AFAIK that was where you left off. Now you're saying that you reversed your position again and hard-townread Jack? I don't understand the reasoning behind your flip-flops here.

Exhibit C: Pawn, Epi, Rabbit
Throughout the entire day you were "townreading" Pawn with a deeply uncertain tone. I don't recall if you actually flipped on him when I pushed him, but I definitely don't recall you defending him... and checking my spreadsheet here, it looks like one of your final 3 options was Pawn.

Epi, on the other hand, you entered the day scumreading... and then slowly slid into a townread based IIRC on his push of Rabbit, which to my eyes was excessive and unfair. You did this while townreading Rabbit, and made no attempt to break up the conflict between two of your townreads. It feels extremely convenient to me that you slid into townreading Epi in this fashion.

Furthermore, when Pawn and Epi were scumreading each other, you stood aside and let them duke it out without significantly contributing one way or the other. I can see a towny motive for this if both your reads of them were highly uncertain, but my recorded votes say you had Pawn in your bottom 3 and Epi not at this point, so that seems unlikely. I think you did make a brief post about Pawn "slanking" or "coasting" at one point, but I certainly don't recall any major contributions from you at EoD. (Unless it was you who was tinfoiling a Pawn/me scumteam? I'm fairly sure that was earlier in the day anyway.)

In Summary:
My general impression of you is that your scumread of me is your only controversial opinion. You slid towards "Jack is town" following me; you slid towards "Pawn is scum" following Epi. You claim to have only townread Pawn in the first place based on the fact that Rabbit thought he was town. You backed off your position that I was scum very quickly when Spiny's post came up, and then backed right back onto it just as quickly when I called you out on it.

You try not to get involved in conflicts in the thread, and are particularly likely to ambiguously-townread strong players like Epi and Pawn. It seems important to you that perceptive people like Epi not have reason to look at you too close: while I'm also known as a strong player, it's a lot easier to brush off suspicion from me than from someone like Epignosis, which makes your persistent scumread of me slot quite neatly into a world where I'm being framed.

As for your analysis content, I recall one solid analysis post at the beginning of D2 regarding the votals, and thereafter your reads have felt confused, vague and underspecified. I've had to prod you for reasoning multiple times, and I've rarely been satisfied with what I get out of you in response. It's also notable that you have significant falloff in contributions over time: Sprityo posts less than you, but they're much more consistent, and there's significant evidence of real heavy lifting behind the scenes. Given that most of what they've done is bullwork, this is a weaker towntell than I'd like, but they score points for getting louder in lylo while you seem to be becoming quieter.

sinice evenstar wants to be koi

I dont think it's evenstar. The amount of thought put into this is either town or a damn good mafia player, that I wouldnt be ashamed to lose to today.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

[sprityo]

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention] [mention]Evenstar[/mention] there ya go

[sprityo]

and no i would've had 3 minutes left not 1

[Master Radishes]

Sprityo, no. Did you even read my case on Evenstar at all?

[Master Radishes]

Go on Eva.

[Evenstar]

I've been in F3 twice. Once as scum, once as town. Won both.

*epic Inception music*

This will be MR's greatest challenge yet.

Let's dance. Hope I've got my partner right.

[sprityo]

youre telling me to vote evenstar? while she has had sketchy points in and out all game, her play today alone has superceded yours Radishes

[Evenstar]

ah fuck I have to pick

[Master Radishes]

youre telling me to vote evenstar? while she has had sketchy points in and out all game, her play today alone has superceded yours Radishes

If you say so.

Oh well, I don't think the game ends, so.

[sprityo]

fuckin gbite the bullet

three way tie or not?

(though plaese dont tie thats 2/3 likely town death)

[Evenstar]

no I don't

[VOTE: Radishes] aubergine

[Sloonei]

Thread is locked.