Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:22 pm
Couldn't sleep too well, as you can see from occasional morningposts. I spent a fair bit of thought on that conversation with MP7 overnight. Really not sure. In the moment I didn't feel like I was talking to town, but... mm. it could be.
On the other hand, uhhh we're yeeting in 5 hours, not much morning action, votes are totally split, two players still have stale votes on my predecessor... Cayvie appears to have straight up dipped after being accused, for more than a day and a half, so sure I'll go back there.
[VOTE:
Cayvie] aubergine
@Alison if that's needed for votes today.
ran goes back onto cayvie after tony goes there. puts cayvie at three
this vote is in a bussing position but it still doesn’t feel like a bus to me when combined with ran’s earlier vote on cayvie. i still don’t feel ran is trying to give herself an out here. the way she votes cayvie is very matter of fact and just seems kinda cold to be a bus
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:53 pm
Okay okay, let's see. How would my reads look right now if I had to sort them?
Hally
Ran
cayvie
sabie
Hyena
Tony
Mist
???
This doesn't feel right, but I'm also not sure what to do.
mp still has cayvie green with four hours left and her at three votes. if mp is scum she made a conscious choice not to bus cayvie even when cayvie was in considerable danger. idk if she would have thought she could swing the votes atp?
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:57 pm
So Mist is the bottom of your current reads? Are you comfortable voting her?
What pushes cayvie into top tier for you?
I guess by default, yeah. I'm not super comfortable voting her which is why it doesn't feel right. Maybe I need to try and re-evaluate people, but I'm not sure how to do that? We don't have a lot of posts to go by, especially as of recently.
Gut mostly, I looked at her ISO yesterday and I felt like her approach to Hyena/Hally and that whole progression over the course of the ISO was a strange thing for scum to do. It felt more like she likely believed it. I wish I knew what she was thinking now though, but I guess that applies to almost everyone.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:31 am
I am always a low poster in the beginning of games I am slow to start as I get a feel for things sorry that's just me. Also as I've said this week didnt go as planned for me but oh well.
I feel like this game is better for the scum team because they can kill us all easily and we won't even know for sure they're doing it.
Now that I can read ISOs I could maybe vote hally as they seem to have been perpetuating the random pokemon discussion and just seem different than the town game I saw before. Now that I read cayvie I feel her thought about hyena and hally may have been genuine but then she disappeared after Wednesday. I think tony is his usual town self. I could see maybe a vote for mist I don't feel like they're towny though I guess others do. I think MP seems like her town game before. I'm just not sure.
For now I will [VOTE:
hally] aubergine I'm sure I'll get grilled about that but that's what I feel right now. In the other town game Hally was so unsure and thought everyone was town and didn't want to vote people and this game seems different to me.
hi sabie, i’ve been feeling pretty unsure this game so i don’t get what you’re saying re: me. what game are you talking about? and i just wanted to talk about pokemon. why is that scummy?
re: mp, do you remember what her scum game is like at all?
I'm sorry yes I should have specified. I was referring to the jack attack game. I felt you were more hesitant to vote in that game than here. just trying to work out my thoughts.
I see the thread is now leaning towards cayvie. I'm wondering does cayvie up and disappear as scum being accused or as town unsure of what to do? I've only played one game with cayvie and that was Upick. I'm not opposed to a cayvie vote I thought maybe her theory on hally and hyena was a genuine thought but then she hasn't come back and further discussed so ehhhh.
sabie still hedging on cayvie. idk i still don’t really know what to take from this. i can easily see this as a villager who just hasn’t made up their mind
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:11 pm
I guess the only issue with voting cayvie is it's real easy to just go after the person who stopped participating and isn't around to defend or discuss anything else.
this is sort of a soft defense of cayvie? but also something villagers say a lot
question though: sabie, in the post above that i just quoted you seem to be suspicious of cayvie not being around but then in this post you cite her absence as being why you hesitate to vote her. do you remember what you were thinking at this time? or how you reconciled those two things? i know it was a while ago
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:26 pm
I feel like sabie's hedging on cayvie seems a bit opportunistic.
i think i brought this post up a few days ago but just to reiterate why i don’t like it: mp at the time was still firmly tr’ing cayvie so i don’t understand why from her pov she would see sabie hedging there and kinda soft defending cayvie and take issue with that? at the time sabie was voicing concerns about voting cayvie because cayvie wasn’t here. i expect someone whos tr’ing cayvie to look at that and go “yea sabie i agree, i don’t think we should vote cayvie because i tr her” but instead mp squints at it. to me this post doesn’t fit into the mindframe of town!mp who sees someone soft defending her tr but it can fit with scum!mp who already knows cayvie is scum and is tmi’ing that sabie looks bad for her treatment of cayvie before cayvie actually flips scum. idk if im explaining this well but basically this post feels like tmi leaking out, like mp is already thinking about who she can push as cayvie’s teammate when cayvie flips
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:31 am
I am always a low poster in the beginning of games I am slow to start as I get a feel for things sorry that's just me. Also as I've said this week didnt go as planned for me but oh well.
I feel like this game is better for the scum team because they can kill us all easily and we won't even know for sure they're doing it.
Now that I can read ISOs I could maybe vote hally as they seem to have been perpetuating the random pokemon discussion and just seem different than the town game I saw before. Now that I read cayvie I feel her thought about hyena and hally may have been genuine but then she disappeared after Wednesday. I think tony is his usual town self. I could see maybe a vote for mist I don't feel like they're towny though I guess others do. I think MP seems like her town game before. I'm just not sure.
For now I will [VOTE:
hally] aubergine I'm sure I'll get grilled about that but that's what I feel right now. In the other town game Hally was so unsure and thought everyone was town and didn't want to vote people and this game seems different to me.
hi sabie, i’ve been feeling pretty unsure this game so i don’t get what you’re saying re: me. what game are you talking about? and i just wanted to talk about pokemon. why is that scummy?
re: mp, do you remember what her scum game is like at all?
I'm sorry yes I should have specified. I was referring to the jack attack game. I felt you were more hesitant to vote in that game than here. just trying to work out my thoughts.
I see the thread is now leaning towards cayvie. I'm wondering does cayvie up and disappear as scum being accused or as town unsure of what to do? I've only played one game with cayvie and that was Upick. I'm not opposed to a cayvie vote I thought maybe her theory on hally and hyena was a genuine thought but then she hasn't come back and further discussed so ehhhh.
Why did you think that?
How would you summarize your experience with cayvie there?
I don't know I just thought maybe it was a genuine thought she had rather than a fake one but then she hasn't been back to discuss anything further since so now I'm not so sure.
I think cayvie was kinda in and out in that game as well if I remember correctly but that was also the game with 50 players.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:11 pm
I guess the only issue with voting cayvie is it's real easy to just go after the person who stopped participating and isn't around to defend or discuss anything else.
Do you feel like that's what is happening?
I was just throwing that out there as I've seen that happen before to people who ended up being town. I guess I was also asking if anyone is more familiar with her and if that is her usual or out of character for her. As I said I only played the one game with her.
sabie still hedging/sort of soft defending cayvie. i need to check if this fits with sabies explanation of her cayvie read this day but i feel like sabie might be slightly exaggerating the extent to which she was suspicious of cayvie? idk though
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:26 pm
I feel like sabie's hedging on cayvie seems a bit opportunistic.
too short
What's too short?
sabie's hedgey post. wolf sabie spends time on it
i think it’s important that tony was tr’ing sabie even after cayvie flipped i think. he has more experience with sabie and didn’t think that her hedging on cayvie was problematic for her even though he sr cayvie
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:54 pm
I guess it's gone long enough that I should say something to @sabie12.
You are not posting into a void, I see your posts and your stances are duly noted. Currently I have characterized you as "townread Cayvie." You are correct in pointing out that you did not strictly speaking do that. You did, however, post:
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:31 am
I am always a low poster in the beginning of games I am slow to start as I get a feel for things sorry that's just me. Also as I've said this week didnt go as planned for me but oh well.
I feel like this game is better for the scum team because they can kill us all easily and we won't even know for sure they're doing it.
Now that I can read ISOs I could maybe vote hally as they seem to have been perpetuating the random pokemon discussion and just seem different than the town game I saw before. Now that I read cayvie I feel her thought about hyena and hally may have been genuine but then she disappeared after Wednesday. I think tony is his usual town self. I could see maybe a vote for mist I don't feel like they're towny though I guess others do. I think MP seems like her town game before. I'm just not sure.
For now I will [VOTE:
hally] aubergine I'm sure I'll get grilled about that but that's what I feel right now. In the other town game Hally was so unsure and thought everyone was town and didn't want to vote people and this game seems different to me.
Bolded and underlined the key phrase. This, as I understand it, is the exact reason that MP7 and Mist gave for why they townread Cayvie. So, posting that specific stance + not voting cayvie is why I currently have you lumped in that group. You may not have said "I townread Cayvie" but if you prefer we can adjust the language to "people who believed cayvie's thoughts were genuine and did not vote her." Does that make sense?
Yes and the rest of the sentence was but she hasn't posted since Wednesday which is my own weird way of being like hmmm what's up with that? I had been reconsidering and I was changing my mind. I can re explain that I (I guess wrongly) after that thought people were reconsidering cayvie and I let it influence my opinion when maybe I shouldn't have. I was going to change to cayvie then I think maybe it was MP said oh cayvie is probably just town and then the conversation started moving away from it. There was no poll and I didn't even realize people were still voting there. I just tried to have further discussion about it and I was asking if people had any familiarity with her or her playstyle or whatever. If that was responded to then I missed it and I'm sorry.
I did not defend cayvie I just wanted to generate discussion and look at other options.
I do realize I word things weirdly and people always misunderstand me. I also realize the remaining mafia has to build a world where someone else is and I am an easy target because no one here gets me. I guess I can't blame them for that since they also want to win this game.
actually this explanation does seem consistent with the posts i just read from sabie. i don’t think she was misrepresenting her treatment of cayvie
- mp’s treatment of cayvie pings me the most as w/w for reasons i’ve explained. the main points are that i feel she wasn’t interested in solving cayvie until tony called her and cayvie out as the team and even then she avoided talking about cayvie or taking a stance on her for a while after. when she does take a stance its a gut tr that i don’t see the process behind. and her reaction to sabie’s “opportunistic hedging” on cayvie feels like tmi leaking out
- mist tr’s cayvie early and that read stays stagnant for the entirety of D1 from what i can see. even at EoD when cayvie is on the block mist doesn’t really seem to care or try to defend her even though she still tr’s her, which is weird but maybe not scummy? idk
- sabie hedges on cayvie a lot and has some posts that look like they could be trying to softly divert votes off cayvie but at the same time, sabie does remain consistently suspicious of cayvie. also tony tr sabie even despite her treatment of cayvie and he knows her i think. so at the very least he didn’t see her treatment of cayvie problematic for her given what he knows of sabie and actually tr her for it
- i find it unlikely ran bussed. she voted and pushed cayvie immediately upon entering and catching up, and although she moved off at a point she went back with plenty of time left. i don’t feel looking at her votes on cayvie that she was trying to give herself outs or avoid bussing or anything. her suspicion is clear and strong
if i had to order everyone based on this i’d go mp > mist > sabie > ran from most to least likely scum
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:27 pm
You know what, I'm so beyond frustrated and confused just yeet me already and have fun in F3. It's not anyone else's fault it's entirely my own, I just feel ashamed. I don't want anyone to feel bad. My thoughts on Hally were not designed to be a fucking case. They are not a case. I don't appreciate them being interpreted as such. I really don't know who the person is but my gut thinks it's most likely Hally and I don't know if I believe that anymore. Just you know what, I suck this game, I deserve it anyway. I couldn't figure out cayvie at all just because I was really afraid to misyeet her again after she was really unconventional in our practice game, and honestly if you look at my ISO for non-cayvie reads too you won't find them I only town read Hally on D1 for the most part because I could never find my groove this game and I certainly don't have it now.
oh gosh now i feel bad i just voted you. why is this game like this. i love you all but one of you is mafia but i feel bad even suspecting any of you
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:35 pm
That's fine, I just make games unfun, I'm done and I'm out of time anyway. Have a fun game. Sorry I ruined it for everyone.
mp you haven’t made the game unfun. i’ve loved playing with you at lot. i really, truly mean that. my sr on you is not personal. but ive done the work now and that’s where the evidence points me. im really sorry if it’s wrong but i have to follow my reads. it’s not that i want you to be upset. i really don’t at all but this is the nature of the game. i’ve been burned so many times by scum making these sorts of posts that i can’t legitimately stop voting you over it. i really enjoy your presence though and im really not trying to upset you, i promise
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:33 pm
Hey Mist, are you still around? What are your reads right now?
sabie is the only read that could be considered a wolfread i think
hyena is my top town, cayvie #2
Mistyx wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:39 pm
I’m playing mario party
[VOTE:
sabie] aubergine
will check in later
i meant like for these posts. particularly the first four. i ask because you still had cayvie as a tr but it seems like you didn’t care that she was in the lead. do you remember what you were thinking as people were talking about cayvie leading up to EoD?
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:33 pm
Hey Mist, are you still around? What are your reads right now?
sabie is the only read that could be considered a wolfread i think
hyena is my top town, cayvie #2
Mistyx wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:39 pm
I’m playing mario party
[VOTE:
sabie] aubergine
will check in later
i meant like for these posts. particularly the first four. i ask because you still had cayvie as a tr but it seems like you didn’t care that she was in the lead. do you remember what you were thinking as people were talking about cayvie leading up to EoD?
full disclosure
i literally did not notice that cayvie was in the lead
this is a flipless setup where town only gets 1 misyeet, 0 if they use their vig.
brutal.
i dunno.
staring at sabie's ISO makes me want to vote sabie
remembering mist's words makes me want to vote mist
staring at the game as a whole makes me want to vote mp7
i feel very restrained, like i can't even case or push or talk about anyone, because they're either ghosting or shutting down and will just do so harder if pushed and i want the ones who are town to play the game and have fun and live. mrf, mrf, mrf.
sabie is literally here in the "viewing this forum" bar at the bottom of the page and has been there for the last 15 minutes silently watching the thread.
MU might consider this ~angle shooting~ but its literally there in bold blue text at the bottom of the screen.
Town don't ghost for 36 hours, then suddenly show up in the reading list at eod for 30 minutes, post nothing, fail to vote, and IMMEDIATELY vanish again from the list when called out on it. I'm sorry, I can't ignore that. No way.
Also her ISO is pretty scummy and does nothing but talk about roles. I lowered my standards and handed out that clear WAY too easily and she just took it and vanished.
