Bird Mafia [TOWN VICTORY]

[Timsup2nothin]

Creature laid out Wurzel's claim and logic pretty reasonably earlier.

@falcon45ca

So is Duskfall a wolf, or are you saying the town got two vigs and apparently a protective role that stopped a wolf kill, a cop (already flipped), and a tracker (Creature)?

I am not buying that, so one of the vig claims is a mafia vig.

Which one?

The thing between the two kills is one is based on progression and the other is based on being scum read by the main posters.

One is claimed as a hero shot, the other is a plain POE shot. Admittedly, a plain POE shot is easy for a wolf to make and claim.

The question about Wurzel's progression is whether you think Wurzel is confident enough in his own reads to take a hero shot there.

[lost monkey]

Creature laid out Wurzel's claim and logic pretty reasonably earlier.

@falcon45ca

So is Duskfall a wolf, or are you saying the town got two vigs and apparently a protective role that stopped a wolf kill, a cop (already flipped), and a tracker (Creature)?

I am not buying that, so one of the vig claims is a mafia vig.

Which one?

The thing between the two kills is one is based on progression and the other is based on being scum read by the main posters.

One is claimed as a hero shot, the other is a plain POE shot. Admittedly, a plain POE shot is easy for a wolf to make and claim.

The question about Wurzel's progression is whether you think Wurzel is confident enough in his own reads to take a hero shot there.

This is my first game with both so i cant assume that. If i am forced to choose the poe shot looks better rather than the hero shot by wurzel. But then a day vig given to town is unusual as well when compared to night shot.

[Don Wurzeloni]

I think y'all are underestimating our host's willingness to give the wolves a vig to balance the town vig. A one shot for them and a one shot for us would not be a big surprise, and I still think Wiml went way too far keeping Wurzel clean through day one for it to just be white knighting on a townie.

I haven't read Wiml's posts yet, but I'll go look if I have time.

I would be really interested to see what you think as someone who is "neutral" to this argument.

Just for some background info - Tim has been tunnelling me for 2 games in a row now:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... e-Town-Win

In this game, Tim scumread me despite knowing my game fairly well. WIML defended me strongly. I then ended up tunelling Tim back as I felt he was deliberately misreading me and I sniped him at the end of D1. Ironically all 3 of us were town.

I suspect Tim is going to tunnel me in every game going forward. And eventually he will be right to

You need to learn to work your way clear. Step one is to acknowledge the substance of the suss. "Wahhh, I'm being tunneled" is seldom effective. In this case you were hard shielded by a flipped wolf, which allowed you to get off a claimed vig shot on a townie. Sussing that isn't tunneling, it's just calling out the most questionable chain of events in the game.

You were pushing me before WIML flipped and you tunnelled me in our last game. I made my vig shot on N1 and WIML was defending me most heavily on D2 so your sequence of events is incorrect.

[lost monkey]

Rather than scum i think wurzel has high equity of being the SK.

[Timsup2nothin]

I think y'all are underestimating our host's willingness to give the wolves a vig to balance the town vig. A one shot for them and a one shot for us would not be a big surprise, and I still think Wiml went way too far keeping Wurzel clean through day one for it to just be white knighting on a townie.

I haven't read Wiml's posts yet, but I'll go look if I have time.

I would be really interested to see what you think as someone who is "neutral" to this argument.

Just for some background info - Tim has been tunnelling me for 2 games in a row now:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... e-Town-Win

In this game, Tim scumread me despite knowing my game fairly well. WIML defended me strongly. I then ended up tunelling Tim back as I felt he was deliberately misreading me and I sniped him at the end of D1. Ironically all 3 of us were town.

I suspect Tim is going to tunnel me in every game going forward. And eventually he will be right to

You need to learn to work your way clear. Step one is to acknowledge the substance of the suss. "Wahhh, I'm being tunneled" is seldom effective. In this case you were hard shielded by a flipped wolf, which allowed you to get off a claimed vig shot on a townie. Sussing that isn't tunneling, it's just calling out the most questionable chain of events in the game.

You were pushing me before WIML flipped and you tunnelled me in our last game. I made my vig shot on N1 and WIML was defending me most heavily on D2 so your sequence of events is incorrect.

I pushed you because Alison scum read you day one, and Wiml stopped her. The only information available was that Alison was the NK, so that's what I worked with. The most likely reason for Alison getting NKed was that she was onto you and Wiml was't going to be able to keep her from flipping you...which would in turn make Wiml's day one shield indefensible.

It's basic wolfing. If I day one white knight somebody as a wolf I don't kill the person that is gonna flip them. I want that person alive so they can flip them and prove I was right.

[Timsup2nothin]

Rather than scum i think wurzel has high equity of being the SK.

Yeah that's a wild ass out of the blue notion with no real reasoning, starting from the assumption that there is a serial killer.

[Don Wurzeloni]

I really just don't see all the remaining mafia being among the low posters/inactive I think you have one mid active player in the bunch given the effort Wiml put into the game.

You can take out Creature, for now, but the lynch didn't really clear anyone else. Though not a fan of their defeatist attitude.

I also really think we need to revisit the mechanic of the two extra shots but legit nobody wants to.

What do you want us to say your literal point seems to be everyone can be mafia this is nothing revolutionary and your scumpool is almost wide as the entire playerlist there's not much to comment on and you're committing to little imo. Ok you don't think people are cleared who we are trying to clear, ok. Then what's you're solve? You're trying to tear down what little town believes we have and you're offering p much nothing in return. Maybe we are wrong, but if we are at least we will be wrong about something and not flip flop the whole game like "i guess this person has a chance of being town or mafia idk", never making any real commitment.

Agree that we should not be expanding the POE when we have just hit a wolf. If we misyeet a couple of times then it will then be worth revisiting

[Timsup2nothin]

On the "should we expand the POE when we just hit a wolf" question...I would like to point out that the wolf we hit was

[Timsup2nothin]

LOL...well that was the wrong button.


Anyway...the wolf we just got, if we had "stuck with the POE" would have survived to win the game because all the genius "tone and meta" readers were full on giving Wiml a pass. The only one pushing Wiml was me, and Wiml was openly taunting that I'd never get him over because he had the whole tone reading crowd snowed under. He carried the N1 kill because he was thought to be above suspicion. Props to Creature for that track.

We need to act on facts here.

Alison was on Wurzel, Alison was town, Alison got killed by wolves.

Wiml shielded Wurzel, Wiml was a wolf.

Those are plain facts, and all the tone reading in the world can't change them.

[Don Wurzeloni]

Creature laid out Wurzel's claim and logic pretty reasonably earlier.

@falcon45ca

So is Duskfall a wolf, or are you saying the town got two vigs and apparently a protective role that stopped a wolf kill, a cop (already flipped), and a tracker (Creature)?

I am not buying that, so one of the vig claims is a mafia vig.

Which one?

If you look at Mario Mafia then that game had Nanook as effectively an even night vig

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4796434

Two one shot vigs are equivalent to one multiple use vig in my book. The main difference as I see it is you are more likely to see more deaths early on.

The role cop sounds good but wasn't that much use as both sides have power roles

The mystery role might be usable every night but equally it could be one shot/limited shot.

We also know that WIML had a power role. The other wolves could also have PRs too. It's too early to make a definitive judgement on game balance.

[lost monkey]

Rather than scum i think wurzel has high equity of being the SK.

Yeah that's a wild ass out of the blue notion with no real reasoning, starting from the assumption that there is a serial killer.

Other than this nothing else fit for me seeing 2 vig kills.

[Timsup2nothin]

Rather than scum i think wurzel has high equity of being the SK.

Yeah that's a wild ass out of the blue notion with no real reasoning, starting from the assumption that there is a serial killer.

Other than this nothing else fit for me seeing 2 vig kills.

Yeah, Syn has used a mafia vig before.

[lost monkey]

Rather than scum i think wurzel has high equity of being the SK.

Yeah that's a wild ass out of the blue notion with no real reasoning, starting from the assumption that there is a serial killer.

Other than this nothing else fit for me seeing 2 vig kills.

Yeah, Syn has used a mafia vig before.

ah okay. [VOTE: wurzel] aubergine

[Don Wurzeloni]

I think y'all are underestimating our host's willingness to give the wolves a vig to balance the town vig. A one shot for them and a one shot for us would not be a big surprise, and I still think Wiml went way too far keeping Wurzel clean through day one for it to just be white knighting on a townie.

I haven't read Wiml's posts yet, but I'll go look if I have time.

I would be really interested to see what you think as someone who is "neutral" to this argument.

Just for some background info - Tim has been tunnelling me for 2 games in a row now:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... e-Town-Win

In this game, Tim scumread me despite knowing my game fairly well. WIML defended me strongly. I then ended up tunelling Tim back as I felt he was deliberately misreading me and I sniped him at the end of D1. Ironically all 3 of us were town.

I suspect Tim is going to tunnel me in every game going forward. And eventually he will be right to

You need to learn to work your way clear. Step one is to acknowledge the substance of the suss. "Wahhh, I'm being tunneled" is seldom effective. In this case you were hard shielded by a flipped wolf, which allowed you to get off a claimed vig shot on a townie. Sussing that isn't tunneling, it's just calling out the most questionable chain of events in the game.

You were pushing me before WIML flipped and you tunnelled me in our last game. I made my vig shot on N1 and WIML was defending me most heavily on D2 so your sequence of events is incorrect.

I pushed you because Alison scum read you day one, and Wiml stopped her. The only information available was that Alison was the NK, so that's what I worked with. The most likely reason for Alison getting NKed was that she was onto you and Wiml was't going to be able to keep her from flipping you...which would in turn make Wiml's day one shield indefensible.

It's basic wolfing. If I day one white knight somebody as a wolf I don't kill the person that is gonna flip them. I want that person alive so they can flip them and prove I was right.

This would be a great argument if Alison had scum read me and me alone but she had a huge lead of potential scumreads:

#1307 - "haven't been impressed with KZA's posting. orangecrush completely dipped from the game thread. My POE is something like: Herm, LoMo, KZA, orangecrush. Which is 3 slankers but I'm not getting bad vibes from the active posters so I think that's okay. Still skeeved out by a couple of nook's posts but his later days will be more telling probably. Wurzel shielded by Wiml and Creature shielded by nook for now so I'm excluding them for the moment, will circle back around to them later."

I was very disappointed that Alison died as I am confident I could have won her round.

[lost monkey]

I am on the fence on this though, my heart says this wrong but my mind says this is right. What a dilemma?

[Timsup2nothin]

I was very disappointed that Alison died as I am confident I could have won her round.

LOL...have you ever played with Alison? She doesn't get "won around."

[Don Wurzeloni]

I was very disappointed that Alison died as I am confident I could have won her round.

LOL...have you ever played with Alison? She doesn't get "won around."

Oh really?

Exhibit A - https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/se ... st_4891021

In this game I was Guinan and Alison was Deanna Troi (as I'm sure you recall Tim)

Let's have a look at Deanna's ISO shall we?

#200 - Guinan is scum.
#201 -Scummy post. Scummy entrance. ##Vote Guinan
#454 - I sort of still think Guinan is mafia but I am calling a truce with her because she deserves it more than you guys
#926 - Guinan deserves to win regardless of alignment so even though I think they're more likely to be mafia I'm going to pretend they're town anyway.
#1035 - Guinan. I am your loyal follower. direct my vote and I will sheep it.
#1108 - I am ready to lose to Ro, Guinan or both.
End game - Alison and I vote together to win the game for town

OK, she never actually says the words "Guinan is town" but I definitely won her round from D1.

[Don Wurzeloni]

I am on the fence on this though, my heart says this wrong but my mind says this is right. What a dilemma?

[Don Wurzeloni]

All gone quiet with an hour to go.

I guess Orange isn't showing up

[Timsup2nothin]

All gone quiet with an hour to go.

I guess Orange isn't showing up

I'm here, just didn't have anything to say to your previous posting.

[Duskfall]

I guess I'll stick it on wurzel

[Duskfall]

Breaking the tie between wurzel marmot here I could switch back though I'm still like kinda thinking over do we just kill afkers or what, I feel like not killing them might just set us for autoloss at f5, regardless we have to kill someone in orange Sig marmot tomorrow if we don't today, it will be hard to choose which if we can't do all for me

[Duskfall]

Wait maybe I'm changing my mind, I can't decide if I believe wurzel shoots Ender or not as town, if I can't decide it's probably better to leave the slot with content alive for now right? And kill the less readable one who I'll never be able to work around so much

This game is hard lmao

[Timsup2nothin]

Wait maybe I'm changing my mind, I can't decide if I believe wurzel shoots Ender or not as town, if I can't decide it's probably better to leave the slot with content alive for now right? And kill the less readable one who I'll never be able to work around so much

This game is hard lmao

I have faith that at least some afkers will eventually come through...and if they don't we just lose

and I think we need to flip someone that we can read off of the flip

[Don Wurzeloni]

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine
Reason: Self pres

[Don Wurzeloni]

All gone quiet with an hour to go.

I guess Orange isn't showing up

I'm here, just didn't have anything to say to your previous posting.

Guess that means I won the argument then

[Timsup2nothin]

All gone quiet with an hour to go.

I guess Orange isn't showing up

I'm here, just didn't have anything to say to your previous posting.

Guess that means I won the argument then

guess again

[Timsup2nothin]

all the canned meta in the world can't change that you were sussed by the N1K and shielded by a flipped wolf

[Timsup2nothin]

@Marmot now would be a really good time for your own self pres vote...and then if you made it worth while by making some time to help solve that would be really great...if this is our first game on the same side I'd appreciate a little team spirit

[Duskfall]

What happens on tie

[Syn]

What happens on tie

Ties are randed.

[Duskfall]

I live for the rand

[Timsup2nothin]

I live for the rand

In my last game I lived through a rand...it was super cool and totally changed the direction of the game

[Don Wurzeloni]

Some serious DADV here

[Timsup2nothin]

Some serious DADV here

Nahhhh...not with how hard a slog it has been to get your wagon going

[Timsup2nothin]

Basically Wurz if you aren't a wolf here you certainly should be.

[Timsup2nothin]

rand hype

[Timsup2nothin]

not really

[Timsup2nothin]

Marmot get your shit together

[Duskfall]

Rand time let's go, the lack of vote makes me believe marmot is town because his mafia team isn't on his back btw pinging him on discord to self pres

[Timsup2nothin]

or they are and he is genuinely afk

[Duskfall]

I guess that's possible too!!

[Syn]

DAY 3 ENDS

Dodo has no idea how it's all going so wrong.

She'd done everything right. She had lured the birds to an isolated area, blocked their means of escape. She'd sown the seeds of doubt and paranoia in them.

But they'd sussed out another of her minions. Once again, they swarm. This time, they've picked Marmot the junco.

They aren't picked up by an enterprising passerby looking for a free meal. They're pushed off the sea bluff to feed the fish.

Marmot the junco was eliminated. They were MAFIA.

Spoiler: show

LONG CON / MARMOT, you are a Junco. The dark-eyed junco is a species of junco, a group of small, grayish New World sparrows. This bird is common across much of temperate North America and in summer ranges far into the Arctic. It is a very variable species, much like the related fox sparrow, and its systematics are still not completely untangled.



You are a GOON. You are part of the Mafia team.

You can’t do anything at night.

You win when you achieve parity with town.

DAY 3 has ended, and NIGHT 3 has begun. You have 23 hours to submit a night action to me via PM. DAY 4 begins at 3:00 PM PDT, June 21.

Twilight chat will go for ONE HOUR from this post.

[Don Wurzeloni]

Oooh. Well the rand worked out pretty well then :-)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Nice

[Duskfall]

Told you it was marmot

[Creature]

Told you it was marmot

I told it first

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Can I be towncore now

[Duskfall]

If I hadn't told Nanook to vote who creature votes this kill doesn't happen so basically this is my kill

[lost monkey]

Damn marmot was actually scum.