Baby Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Gira]

I always thought Illwei was obvious town when they were town and Mizery doesn't seem obvious town here.

What if we just farmed our Mizery read out to Esooa

I think it's actually insanely helpful to make Esooa lead the way on Mizery

i have to ask why you were okay farming the read out if esooa was in your POE? @Alison

[Gira]

@Mizery I would like your thoughts on Tess too, that sword cuts both ways.

i assume related to this

[Gira]

I'm gonna be in class until EOD. It's clear nobody has interest in voting off Wisp, so I'm going to vote Mizery.

[VOTE: Mizery] aubergine

this is the vote, hm. i mean technically it'd be possible for it to be a weak vote on a partner hoping they go over

but it was also very much undecided if mizery was going over at that point in time

which could just mean it felt like an obligatory bus at the time

or she was town who was voting mafia

doesn't say a lot to me

[Gira]

LC/Wisp/Mizery

I have too much respect for all of these players to think that they could be this bad as town. It's just agenda.

I'm done here. If townie votes outside of LC today after his EOD yesterday, the nightkill, and the scumslip they don't deserve to win.

[Gira]

Hold on did i say a post of wisps was bad earlier or was it gira

either way wisp still v so im just reminding myself

Explain why Wisp is V.

I have TMI

I believe you have TMI. I don't believe Wisp is V.

Mizery has spent the past page steadfastly refusing to participate in the game or answer questions and deflects or gives memes whenever pressed.

Mizery has spent the past page steadfastly refusing to participate in the game or answer questions and deflects or gives memes whenever pressed.

and?

Which means she's scum obviously.

Joking around is fine, but town wants people to hear their reads and understand their reasoning sooner or later. Mizery actively deflects away from doing that.

mmm

i mean it's

good to have said this but kinda tragic she made it to day 5 anyway

[Gira]

I'm p sure Mizery is town

How come

cause when she was a wolf she was a bitch too scared to vote or push me, this game she's voting me and you and etc

and other stuff but yeah

Mmmmm

this is a good point

[Gira]

I think that Wisp's D1 was towny off of emotions and the fact that I have seen myself in that spot as town before, as long as I am thinking of the right person still because i might be thinking of gira but I don't think I'm thinking of gira??

anyways also her not knowing who Esooa was after like 10 people saying it in thread like 10 times each i think is also a good look for her. if she was w/w with esooa then I'd expect her to know, and if she was w/v with esooa I'd expect esooa's name to be mentioned at least once when they were thinking about NKs

I like this angleshoot. I don't know if I believe in it but you going there is kind of a townie thing to say.

I wouldn't read Wisp town for emotion. AtE is scummy.

I now think you are probably town though so congrats. There is a slight chance you are exactly wolves with Tess but I still have Tess POE'd anyway so that doesn't really blow me out.

I'm p sure Mizery is town

How come

cause when she was a wolf she was a bitch too scared to vote or push me, this game she's voting me and you and etc

and other stuff but yeah

Mmmmm

this is a good point

Mizery v, Esooa w seems fine.

Yeah im not gonna clear esooa for it

[Gira]

what am i even doing here, i dunno

[Gira]

If Mizery has a history of giving meme answers as town then I retract my accusation

What accusation

That you are a wolf for giving meme answers

Although you should really stop doing that

me?

Mafia is a social game and i will be as social as i deem fit while giving answers when i deem fit

I can't stop you from doing it but just know that people will get annoyed at you and possibly exe you for it and you'll be attracting a lot of heat for no reason in playerlists that don't know you.

It's not gamethrowing or morally wrong or anything but you'll get run up more often than you should because of it

that last quote feels unaligned, actually. and fairly town. the casual advice giving feels like it's from a mindset of town who is displeased with the way mizery is playing but is thinking she might just be trolling town

[Gira]

I'm willing to sacrifice myself for the greater good if it means we can all make a blood pact to never listen to Gavial in any game ever again for the remainder of time.

this would be such a cheeky post to make as scum lol

[Gira]

@Alison
My brain says vote Tess here btw

I've already explained why that is not a logical decision. I'm not saying it's wrong to scumread Tess; and if you believe that LC and I are T/T then it is perfectly logical to scumread her. But you aren't going to be able to get the votes on her, and leaving me and LC to fight another day is only going to tear the town apart.

[Gira]

I was gonna offer to fall on my sword today and then y'all can just burn the POE from the knowledge LC and I are T/T, but since Tess has a check that works too

why would you have done that

it would be lylo tomorrow you realize

I definitely don't want to be around in LyLo with this much suspicion on me

[Alison]

I always thought Illwei was obvious town when they were town and Mizery doesn't seem obvious town here.

What if we just farmed our Mizery read out to Esooa

I think it's actually insanely helpful to make Esooa lead the way on Mizery

i have to ask why you were okay farming the read out if esooa was in your POE? @Alison

Because Esooa being in the POE means we resolve Esooa soon, and then either we know the read was in good faith or Esooa/Mizery is outed. In general you want to force POE people to take strong stances on each other, as it makes it really awkward if they're scum together: you can see how I mention, slightly later on, that I say "there's a slight chance Mizery/Tess are scum together, but I'm ok with that possibility, because Tess is POE regardless so we can flip her and then see about Mizery". Tess and Mizery are dating IRL, so if Tess is town, it makes her read on Mizery pretty likely to be correct because they know each other well.

[Gira]

fun fact btw: i am spewed not w/w with anyone but wilgy, falcon and tess. Wilgy is tracker, does anyone think it's me/tess/falcon?

Self-spew analysing yourself tho.

Lmao.

Can you refute it though?

First you'd have to provide evidence for me to refute.

But yes, given I have you maybe paired with other people not Wilgy or Falc.

Who do you have me paired with?

Tess.

1 of Wisp/Gira.

Maaaaaaaaaybe Miz.

Wisp and Gira are both hard spewed not partnered with me from D1. Miz has been consistently siding against me.

can you explain where mizery was siding against you? i'm not sure i get this

[Alison]

Self-spew analysing yourself tho.

Lmao.

Can you refute it though?

First you'd have to provide evidence for me to refute.

But yes, given I have you maybe paired with other people not Wilgy or Falc.

Who do you have me paired with?

Tess.

1 of Wisp/Gira.

Maaaaaaaaaybe Miz.

Wisp and Gira are both hard spewed not partnered with me from D1. Miz has been consistently siding against me.

can you explain where mizery was siding against you? i'm not sure i get this

Miz had me in POE the entire game, refused to ever townread me, was on opposite sides to me EOD1, and voting offwagon D2, after I specifically said everyone should make their stance on Alison vs LC.

[Gira]

Alison W, Luck W

Wisp V

LC/Wisp/Mizery

I have too much respect for all of these players to think that they could be this bad as town. It's just agenda.

I'm done here. If townie votes outside of LC today after his EOD yesterday, the nightkill, and the scumslip they don't deserve to win.

Why would you have any respect for me lmfao

Alison W, Luck W

Wisp V

If Alison/Luck was w/w I fully expect Luck to have voted her already lmao.

I don't actually believe in my alison W read I just can't say that aloud yet

funny enough, i don't actually think that she was that strongly against you, except when you had called her out day 1

i don't think misremembering that is bad for you though. her not pushing you all that hard is probably a good thing actually

[Gavial]

Gotta admit though I was close.
Wasn’t Mizery, Luck and Tess.
It was Mizery, Alison and Tess.

do you think that looks good for you, because if anything you naming both of them but pushing elsewhere looks informed

I named them because I seen the scum pairing.
I was just more confident in that Dizzy/Alison had scum within it and was right to think so.

[Gavial]

lol was wisp abt to make the right decision before gira came back and convinced her or what

Tbf I still need to make that case on Alison to show Wisp Alison has allot more associations with Tess then I do.


Like I had them as partnered for awhile.

you...had them as partnered but hard defended tess on day 2?

It was near the end and I was still way more confident on Alison and if you look during Day 2 I was concerned LC might have been Alison’s Buss but as you can see it was Mizery that was Alison’s Buss.
Thus why I didn’t push Tess as much as I could have.
I push the better wolves because it pays off better.

[Gavial]

i think alison is likely town atp

This was the last mention on Alison before Day 5 lol.

The main concern for Gira was Ender/Tess and no concern for Alison Day 3 at all lol.

you are wildly disingenuous huh

I was leaning more for it to be you over Miz yes I’ll admit that.
But I probably when have figured it was you if Alison was gone yesterday and it’s F3 today with me as IC.

[Gavial]

I’d have probably grabbed both you and Miz’s ISO and take a hard look at each of them.

[Gira]

Gotta admit though I was close.
Wasn’t Mizery, Luck and Tess.
It was Mizery, Alison and Tess.

do you think that looks good for you, because if anything you naming both of them but pushing elsewhere looks informed

I named them because I seen the scum pairing.
I was just more confident in that Dizzy/Alison had scum within it and was right to think so.

why did you think there was scum between them, anyway

[Gira]

(sorry went afk to watch baseball)

[Gira]

Wilgy is also town <3

Get rekt mafia

I like this read which means Dizzy is probably town.

Ok this is actually quite a dumb post.
I don’t want to call it a bad post but like I don’t like it.
Here’s why:
Dizzy has made a list of town reads from a post.
How the post is made both me and Alison agree it was a bad post.
Alison suspects Dizzy and says if they help vote Gira they are probably town.
Dizzy simply adds another town read, another person on their list.
This provides no explanation.
Alison for some reason now suddenly states because of that post Dizzy is probably town?
Lol no. Least I don’t think Alison truly believes that.

The only defence I can give to Dizzy on how this can be considered “probably town” is that as Scum they could have pushed that slot since they TR’ed Mizery when Dizzy said they wanted others to talk about Mizery calling Mizery’s entrance bad.

That’s about it.

this...is not all that convincing

[Gira]

anyway doing some meta homework on gavial

didn't really fully explain this yestserday but my impression of alison is that while she's a good scum player she tends to play a more clean game than this where here she's been fired up and antagonistic in a way that is rarely beneficial to scum

[Gavial]

Gotta admit though I was close.
Wasn’t Mizery, Luck and Tess.
It was Mizery, Alison and Tess.

do you think that looks good for you, because if anything you naming both of them but pushing elsewhere looks informed

I named them because I seen the scum pairing.
I was just more confident in that Dizzy/Alison had scum within it and was right to think so.

why did you think there was scum between them, anyway

The interactions between them SoD1 felt unnatural.

[Gavial]

anyway doing some meta homework on gavial

didn't really fully explain this yestserday but my impression of alison is that while she's a good scum player she tends to play a more clean game than this where here she's been fired up and antagonistic in a way that is rarely beneficial to scum

But that’s the point.
She is being antagonistic this game to pull of the win for her team.

Why do you think your still alive?
Why was Falcon and Wisp killed over you?
Why was Nanook killed?
Do you think those are kills I’d ever make.



Think of it like this.
If I’m wolf, I’ve strategically purposely put myself in one of the worst position when I could have put myself in a way better one.

I could have killed Wisp instead of Falcon and allowed Falcon to vote you or Alison and then me and Miz hammer.
But that isn’t the case because I ain’t wolf with Miz. Alison is.

[Gira]

that's not really very strong

[Gavial]

anyway doing some meta homework on gavial

didn't really fully explain this yestserday but my impression of alison is that while she's a good scum player she tends to play a more clean game than this where here she's been fired up and antagonistic in a way that is rarely beneficial to scum

But that’s the point.
She is being antagonistic this game to pull of the win for her team.

Why do you think your still alive?
Why was Falcon and Wisp killed over you?
Why was Nanook killed?
Do you think those are kills I’d ever make.



Think of it like this.
If I’m wolf, I’ve strategically purposely put myself in one of the worst position when I could have put myself in a way better one.

I could have killed Wisp instead of Falcon and allowed Falcon to vote you or Alison and then me and Miz hammer.
But that isn’t the case because I ain’t wolf with Miz. Alison is.

I just REALLY want you to acknowledge this.

[Gira]

i mean nanook being killed doesn't make sense for any team with mizery on it and i don't see why alison kills falcon either, the thing about him voting me would be just as true

like hypothetically i could see it as a divide and conquer strategy but i don't know why they go that way and leave you when you're guaranteed to be against her

[Gavial]

that's not really very strong

Then what is Gira?
I’ve named a bunch of reasons how Alison is more likely wolf. Been doing all of it since like Day 2.
Alison ain’t given much. Most of the shit I seen from them weren’t even correct and you seen that as well.

Why is Alison more likely town then me Gira?
Why?
Please let me know because you shouldn’t think that.

[Gavial]

i mean nanook being killed doesn't make sense for any team with mizery on it and i don't see why alison kills falcon either, the thing about him voting me would be just as true

like hypothetically i could see it as a divide and conquer strategy but i don't know why they go that way and leave you when you're guaranteed to be against her

IT MAKES SENSE FOR ALISON

THAT IS ONE OTHER REASON I VOTED ALISON DAY 2!

[Gavial]

Lol killing mizery, really?

I'd vote Alison

Could you elaborate there?

If Alison becomes a viable counterwagon to miz i woild vote for her

Look at this!
It was clear Nanook didn’t care about Miz and would vote Miz over Alison.
Alison didn’t want this! Alison just from the Nanook kill alone should tell you by these 2 posts that Alison wanted Miz to go over and be bussed and Nanook was standing in their way from doing so.
@Gira

[Gavial]

Ah crap just reread my post I mixed up Alison with Miz but you get my point.

[Gavial]

As in “would vote Alison over Miz”.

[Gira]

that's not really very strong

Then what is Gira?
I’ve named a bunch of reasons how Alison is more likely wolf. Been doing all of it since like Day 2.
Alison ain’t given much. Most of the shit I seen from them weren’t even correct and you seen that as well.

Why is Alison more likely town then me Gira?
Why?
Please let me know because you shouldn’t think that.

because for most of the game you wolfsided hard and pushed many different townspeople while defending the flipped scum. you did vote esooa day 3 but that was after she was in a CC where it would benefit the deepest mafia to be on the right side of history, and your read on her flipping from "PR who must be defended" to "obvious mafia" doesn't really make sense

alison has not done that and wasn't playing in a way to appeal to most people with how abrasive she was being. in general mafia want to make allies and she wasn't playing in that way. her interactions with both mafia are not really clearing but also not really damning. in general though she doesn't feel...in step with what the other two were doing. dunno if that makes sense. but she was at least POE'ing both of the mafia members while you were defending them

[Gavial]

Dude who did I push other then Dizzy and Alison?

(I guess LC but it was more like I was trying to pressure him to see if I could read him clearly to see if he was being bussed or not and in the end concluded he wasn’t being bussed.)

[Gavial]

Yo Gira WDYM Alison wasn’t trying to make Allies?
What do you call Dizzy? You know the main interaction that caused me to believe there was scum within Alison/Dizzy.
What about You and Luck hmm? Seems like Allies to me.
Also looked like their own buddy Tess TR’ed them.

I’m gonna pull an Alison and say what she said to Wisp.
Why are you siding with the wolves? (AKA Alison) Like your following so deeply into their pocket it’s ridiculous.

[Gavial]

Why do you think your in F3.
Your the chosen gullible ally Alison brought into F3 to Pocket.

[Gira]

alison was pretty persistently suspicious of me because my activity was intermittent, i'd hardly say it felt like she was trying to win me over

[Gira]

[VOTE: Ender] aubergine

I think you mean:
[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I'm not opposed to that idea

Why though? You were on Tess before-- and I've generally felt good about you here-- but could you discuss your reads on both of them?

Honestly, I can see a Lime Coke, Luck and Alison Team RN.
As much as I think Luck has been Townie it looks like Luck is trying to push Falcon back into a Tess vote so Alison doesn’t go over today.

like i mean very specifically here you're shading luck when he was voting tess


and like your case n alison and the reasons for it all game have been...not good

[Gira]

Like the Alison wagon is fucking pure.
Wisp keeping his vote on it is still pure!

Tess voters look better except for Falcon who is trending down

Nah, betcha one scum is on there though.
Probably you or Gira.


As much as I originally town read you, you is trending down.

[Gira]

Like the Alison wagon is fucking pure.
Wisp keeping his vote on it is still pure!

Tess voters look better except for Falcon who is trending down

Nah, betcha one scum is on there though.
Probably you or Gira.


As much as I originally town read you, you is trending down.

How am I trending down? You're trending down.

Nice OMGUS.

makes u think

[Gira]

Ok on D1 people were like "woah Mizery is Illwei that's not a good look for her"....and you made a post that was pretty much "well if she's not villagery then she can die", then she made one post that didn't really have to do with anything game related, you called it villagery and found your way onto Dizzy.

Question is: Do you think your dynamic with Illwei could prevent you from treating her objectively on D1?

I think there are also some big differences in how you treated Dizzy here vs the game where Dizzy was wolfing, you called him a wolf, and died on D1-- in that game you were pretty much like "lol Dizzy is a wolf and should die", and here you didn't express any sort of confidence about it-- I would expect that after nailing w! Dizzy in your previous game, that you would reference that when making a case for it in the next game. It seems wolfy that you didn't.

irt illwei I have been biased against killing her before. I was pretty sure she was a wolf when she wolfed against me but I tried killing her partners and we only hit town so that was rough lol. But I still thought she was a wolf pretty much that entire game beginning from day 1, and this game I just don't think she is

I don't think posts need to be "game related" to be towny though. Especially for like, illwei. She hates wolfing and the ways I found her town previous were

1: she posted like 250 times early on in team mafia, I didn't read a single post from her before saying "illwei's lock town" in team chat
2: the way she engaged with the thread in SF2 was very believable considering her approach to the game, mostly was considering how before the game she was like "there's a lot of good players and I feel useless which demotivates me from solving and doing things cause I don't think anything I say is worthwhile/is just useless"

comparatively, as a wolf, she was really awkward. She was blatantly trying to get on my good side, when I called someone town she came up with a not very believable reason to also call the same person town, then later in thread (DM's were open in this game) that "Esooa is town because we mindmelded"

Which wasn't really true and especially with how put-on the mindmeld into mention of it was, felt like she was very intentionally and awkwardly trying to get on my good side

And after the game too, as I said, she was too scared to wolf read me cause she thought I would bury her (which I did also notice when one of her town reads tried to dome me, she was very hands off, non-committal in a wolfy way)

I think her posts this game fall much more in line with the kinda stuff I read her for in her town games and not much from her wolf game

irt to Dizzy, my confidence was never that great on them, but when I came in it was 10 minutes to EoD and I wanted to get things done, and didn't want the wagoned people to die. You probably saw similar in like, cool mountainous mafia. Day 2 I made shit up and was way more confident on it than I really was/ought to be mostly to push people around and get reactions there, or to get votes onto who I wanted in basic mafia. Part of that too was me being annoyed that Alison was even being voted day 1 which I thought shouldn't be happening, and seeing as it was caused by Dizzy I pushed them for it.

Also, I did mention that I found Dizzy as a wolf previously, and that did factor into my read on them. I'm pretty sure particularly I said that the difference I noticed between wolf Dizzy and town Dizzy is that town Dizzy just didn't really care about reads on them, but wolf Dizzy was more appearance focused broadly, and that I didn't like their entry because the town reads seemed put-on and too much like buddying

^
Look at this.
This seems like an honest town LHF answer.
The dedication in this post shows how much they are willing to give to us to show us why they are town.

@falcon45ca
Now rather they are town is one thing but as town they would definitely want to do this to try and prove to everyone they are wrong on them!
I think you should see that the correct vote here today is Alison.

did i quote this one yesterday? i don't even remember. you were so absurdly charitable to tess, calling her "honest town LHF" (which she is not by any stretch of the imagination) and for "dedication" and being willing to give effort or something, which she flagrantly was not doing

you were so much more charitable to her than you were to dizzy or me or lime coke or luckbox

[Gira]

anyway i don't really have time to continue metadiving

apologies to anyone lurking this thread, i'm going to sleep on it and vote in the morning

if you want to convince me i'm going to want to see a succinct case, make your points as clearly as possible

[Gavial]

@Gira
Alison is Wolf Case in Point Form.
-Unnatural Interaction with Dizzy
-interaction stated Alison would TR Dizzy if they vote Gira if I remember correctly but then in the following post TR’s Dizzy anyway.
-Try’s to Push Gira and realizes the push won’t work and back tracks into a 180 TR on Gira.
-Clear pocketing by Alison to Dizzy, Luck and Gira
-Chooses Wisp as the new push target.
-Vote on Miz is a typical Buss vote
-They have the worst voting history compared to me
-Nanook called them out that they would vote them over Miz and be inclined to CFD on them and then Nanook dies
-Backtracks Wisp and repeats similar thing to that of the 180 on Gira.
-They opportunistically push Lime Coke an easy ML wagon and practically Thunderdome the guy and say he’s spewed scum because of Nanook death
-Alison confidently said they wanted to die the day Tess revealed to then both of which push Ender and remove our PR’s
-The Falcon kill happens. If Falcon was alive he would have pushed Alison or Gira for sure. Potentially quick vote Alison too and Alison didn’t want that as it would ruin their plan.
-Alison then follows up with a Buss vote on Miz immediately without a second thought of hesitation.
-Not only Alison Today but Miz yesterday tried to say it’s impossible they would Buss each other. Just read Miz’s last part of their ISO.

[Alison]

Scum case on Gavial

- He voted town over scum D1
- He defended Tess and Mizery a bunch
- He tried to convince Wisp that Alison/Gira was the solve
- I was the one who crossvoted Mizery in an F5 where I could have easily crossed a townie or bided my time
- Mizery was obviously tilted at how Wisp was being swayed by me
- Gavial doesn't actually explain any of his assertions as to why X or Y is scum indicative, necessarily a bus, etc, he just claims it is

[Gira]

all right let's get this over with

truthfully i could have done this last night but the last time i hammered wrong it screwed up my sleep and i didn't want to have that hanging over me

so going to do a quick review

[Gira]

@Gira
Alison is Wolf Case in Point Form.
-Unnatural Interaction with Dizzy
-interaction stated Alison would TR Dizzy if they vote Gira if I remember correctly but then in the following post TR’s Dizzy anyway.
-Try’s to Push Gira and realizes the push won’t work and back tracks into a 180 TR on Gira.
-Clear pocketing by Alison to Dizzy, Luck and Gira
-Chooses Wisp as the new push target.
-Vote on Miz is a typical Buss vote
-They have the worst voting history compared to me
-Nanook called them out that they would vote them over Miz and be inclined to CFD on them and then Nanook dies
-Backtracks Wisp and repeats similar thing to that of the 180 on Gira.
-They opportunistically push Lime Coke an easy ML wagon and practically Thunderdome the guy and say he’s spewed scum because of Nanook death
-Alison confidently said they wanted to die the day Tess revealed to then both of which push Ender and remove our PR’s
-The Falcon kill happens. If Falcon was alive he would have pushed Alison or Gira for sure. Potentially quick vote Alison too and Alison didn’t want that as it would ruin their plan.
-Alison then follows up with a Buss vote on Miz immediately without a second thought of hesitation.
-Not only Alison Today but Miz yesterday tried to say it’s impossible they would Buss each other. Just read Miz’s last part of their ISO.

i should say that, like, i don't find her changing her reads particularly scummy at all. like a lot of this stuff is, well, things i can easily see a town doing. the strongest point is probably NKA but that's still wifom-y at best

and especially the early stuff that has been the basis for what is essentially a game-long tunnel is just, not that damning at all? to a big extent the reads you've pushing have just been, strongly assert someone is a wolf for fairly weak/silly reasons and then then claim everything they're doing is scummy, it doesn't feel like there's much sense behind it at all. which may be a playstyle thing but in other games there's usually some thread i can follow while here your reasons for scumreading people have just been...not great

[Gira]

meta dive inconclusive, one gavial scumgame he played very similarly to this with defending his partners until them dying was inevitable, in another he distanced a lot more but tactics can differ depending on your teammates

[Gira]

last time i was in the situation of being the deciding vote i big brained myself out of voting the guy who wolfsided hard and i felt like hell over it for a while

i'm rereading gavial's iso and i just cannot get over the extent to which he defended miz/tess. and when i've pressed him on that i don't feel like he's even had the recgnizance that i would expect town to have when they've screwed up their reads - i say him dfending them is a bad look and he tells me "It might look somewhat bad."? It feels like an attempt to minimize where I would expect most people to be more self-aware and actually admit to having been fairly wrong. feels more like he wants to bolster his case and not admit to anything that makes him look bad. additionally, he went from defending tess to immediately going after her on day 3, and that mostly makes sense from the perspective of a deepwolf who wants to be on the right side of history in a counter claim. plus just a few little comments between miz/gav look distance-y.


there is no way in any universe i could live with myself if i did not vote him here and he was scum. so if i'm wrong i'm sorry but i hope people understand i was absolutely never getting there

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

@Syn