Secret Playerlist - ENDGAME

[DeeZees]

Happy chrismas!!

[DeeZees]

Also screw it the main problem against me is that i didnt continue pushing vivax.

I posted against vivax as much as my general posting would allow

honestly i think the main point against you at least for me is that you’ve done literally nothing else, which makes me not want to give you any cred for pushing vivax

Yh but if i bus with risk of death my play would involve loads of shouting for cred n efforting

Plz ignore my current shouting for cred in this

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Merry holidays

[Porscha]

Like it's possible he is town and I would need to ISO on comp later but it seems there has been literally no conceptions he may not be town but from the posts I've seen from him... idk.... he could be wolfing lol

I responded to one of wilgy posts where he was talking with falcon earlier in the game and told wilgy "sorry for the rand" but he didnt respond to it I dont think lol but I was kind of not entirely joking when I said it lmfaoo

Porscha did you ever actually ISO me? The entire first paragraph was "he may be town" but he "may not be town"

Re: Sorry for the rand. I didn't see this at first. You referring to this post?

So what here is the argument for me?

I've seen a few votes.

Wilgy here showing an unusual amount of concern for the sus on his slot.



It is not uncommon for Wilgy to get heat, as he is a tricky read, and usually he cares very little.

It was a good means for me to actually get involved. I was pretty uninvolved at the start of the game, so examining who was being truthful in their suspicion of me vs who was chasing the lhf helped me get my footing.

How about you? You seem not concerned about the sus on you. What do you think of my takes on your slot?

Sorry for the rand wilgy

So like, am I supposed to make anything of this? Did you we me for how I responded to Falcon's inquiry? I don't follow.

I had so much written up and I fucked up on my phone and it's gone and I am being teenager dramatic levels about it rn I want to die

[Porscha]

Ok lemme try to tldr. No I didnt ISO you and my point was only that I believe, from the posts I have seen from you, that you could still be well within your wolf range. I also did not like your catch up post in regards to me, your stance on me felt omgus but with some lovingly and craftily made reasons, it feels a bit shallow when I feel like a town wilgy is pretty good at sparsing the town and wolves among those who apply pressure onto or sr him

Also yes, I made that comment due to your interaction with falcon. In fact Falcons post about how you feel overly invested in sus on yourself is a lot of what I'm feeling right now. I also feel the tone of your posts in that interaction is overly serious

[Hally]

not gonna be around for EoD probably

the way the wagons are now ricochet can self pres to wilgy and force a rand, which means if wilgy is town rico could get to lylo with virtually zero content the entire game

i’m not as sure on wilgy being town as i was yesterday but i still wouldn’t lunch him today

but w/e i guess, glgl lol

[Ricochet]

O celestial globe, transmit to prosperity. The wisdom of the moon and stars.

I think EoD was extended another day.

I've offered content, so kindly drop the "virtually zero" and just look into it or ask away anything else.

I would lynch to clear DeeZees or IAWY, based on the shady timing their D5 votes had in facilitating lifelines to Vivax. No bearing still on players who voted outliers and that pool is bigger either way (Neon, Porscha, Hally even).

Don't think EoD will reach ties, but just in case, I won't self pres on a wagon I don't trust the outcome (and right now, far from it being Wilgy for me), you can clean me thus, but you will reach mylo next phase 100%. Same outcome with any other mislynch toDay, of course, but town can at least try better than "what if the whole wolfteam just derped Lovecraft and Taylor Swift".

[Hally]

oh, yeah EoD was extended i guess

alrighty

[MacDougall]

surprise

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

SurPrize

[DrWilgy]

Hope everyone had a good day yesterday.

[DrWilgy]

Ok lemme try to tldr. No I didnt ISO you and my point was only that I believe, from the posts I have seen from you, that you could still be well within your wolf range. I also did not like your catch up post in regards to me, your stance on me felt omgus but with some lovingly and craftily made reasons, it feels a bit shallow when I feel like a town wilgy is pretty good at sparsing the town and wolves among those who apply pressure onto or sr him

Also yes, I made that comment due to your interaction with falcon. In fact Falcons post about how you feel overly invested in sus on yourself is a lot of what I'm feeling right now. I also feel the tone of your posts in that interaction is overly serious

Aye, what is my wolf range exactly Porscha? Like, that argument against me still feels off. In anniversary 1 I had sniped 2 wolves and people were still arguing I was in my wolf range, so I don't get it anymore.

Not really sure that it's wrong even if it's OMGUS though. You just decided to wr me and there's not much info for me to even tell if you genuinely believe that read or not. "Wilgys in his wolf range" alright define my WR. "Wilgy didn't respond to my 'Sorry for the Rand'" I didn't see it and responded when you thought to raise it again after 3 day cycles. It's like you decided "Wilgy can be W" without doing any of the legwork to actually get there.

And don't get me wrong, I can see this coming from a gut reaction to me. I just don't see that being presented here.

The other reasons being crafted or shallow I'd need for you to detail to me how you disagree with them.

Hally's observation of "players that know Porscha tr the slot" recently also stood out to me as I thought it was mostly contrary to that being true. Seanzie Nut and Michelle all wolf read your slot and are gone.

Re overly serious, I think you are correct. Did start to feel some decent frustration when Nut and Falcon flipped and I get how that's not like me. This game is lasting too long I think.

[DrWilgy]

@Neon, why exactly are you voting me?

[Inawordyes]

Okay hi hello good morning

[Inawordyes]

Rico a question, why did you wait until now to start playing? I tried to interact with you yesterday on your level by RP'ing even with my responses, and you ignored it. I did not expect you to be here and now you're coming in hot sans gimmick, and I have to question what made you wait so long?

I interpret the words of the fingers. The fingers tremble. Let their wisdom wash over you.

No incentive to play a 40-player, 24-day prelude to proper mafia.

You signed up for the game knowing what you were getting into, why choose to be a player in a game that you knew would take almost a whole month in order to actually get going?

Why didn’t you step up after the first purge like everybody else did?

[Inawordyes]

nobody should be town reading that wall

why?

why would you?

it’s a ton of information instead of analysis and the analysis that’s there is a lot of rehashing of what other’s have already said. there’s nothing that’s really interesting or difficult for a wolf to post. generally, talking about interactions and spew is the easiest thing for a wolf to do because they can just say things that are true most of the time.

and more obviously, one wall of solving the entire game as soon as his NPC cover was blown and he can’t skate by anymore is not villagery

I’ll add too, that it’s one thing to gather the info in one place and have the data available to see. It is nice to have it together, I appreciate that as a reference

But no conclusions that are drawn are followed up with, the info is presented, maybe a takeaway or two is given, but there’s nothing done with it. It’s like the expectation is “here’s a wall, my work here is done” “but you didn’t nothing” “townread plz”

And Vivax specifically has been gone for at least an IRL week if not more, this is easily work that could’ve been done multiple day phases ago and had a bigger impact when it was immediately relevant. As it stands now, like you said it doesn’t provide anything new. It looks like meaningful content, and it would’ve been earlier, but it really isn’t much at this point

[Inawordyes]

I've caught up. Here's some thinks:

@DeeZees: This is the slot I've decided that I'm most scared of being wrong about. I've seen the arguments that the Vivax interactions were heavy handed then fell off, but I also see that there was some legitimate momentum gain towards a potential Vivax yeet when Deezees voted that I think makes them not W/W

@DrWilgy: Beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous. Wonderful thing. Deserves some hugs and cheese cake.

@Hally: I still TR. Reviewed the Falcon EoD and find that Hally having to choose between Nutella and Falcon would've had me doing the same thing I think.

@ilario: Cleared by lack of CC. Wish we had more involvement from the slot beyond that, but we take what we can get I suppose.

@Inawordyes: I mostly TR. I find myself agreeing with most lines of thinking. At first I had felt that there was an obscure lack of conclusions being drawn in spite of the thoughts and questions put out there, but after catching up and seeing some ends i.e. the thoughts on Neon and Hally, I read this as a mostly T voice.

@Neon: I want to SR but I think I don't. I find myself in agreement with iawy's take. Neon's persistence and frustration feels real, but also I don't see Neon playing to a game winning objective.

@Porscha: The way Porscha has come gunz blazing at me after most of my town core has been yeeted feels calculated. I agree with Neon that the AtE didn't make me feel good about the slot but I think now that the push on me makes for an easy way to yeet mostly town voices and get Porscha back in the game after being away for most of it.

@Ricochet: I agree with Hally that the wallpost shouldn't be town read. Feels very much manipulative to have that post and hold it until the npc's are gone. It's also not like any other slot who at least contributed in minor pre purge.

What makes DZ’s slot so important for what ultimately amounts to a hedgy both-coins read?

Can you go more in-depth on what you mean by “obscure lack of conclusions”?

How much of your read on Porscha is ‘legitimate’ and how much of it is OMGUS and what ultimately amounts to thirdhand downstream echoes? (considering part of the reason you mention for your read is based on agreeing with Neon’s read of Porscha, and part of the reason for your read on Neon is based on agreeing with me, so it’s like this disjointed follow-through)

Put more simply, you townread me, okay. You townread Neon in part because you put stock in my read of Neon, okay. But you scumread Porscha in part because you put stock in Neon’s read of Porscha, which unlike the Neon read isn’t grounded in a trust for its own sake but like a weaker piggyback off of what’s already a secondhand read, if that makes any sense

[Inawordyes]

Rico, now that you can reply in not-full RP, why did you throw your vote onto Nanook of all players yesterphase?

[Ricochet]

You are but a lamb. A stranger to defilement. Ignorant to your own ignorance.

Rico a question, why did you wait until now to start playing? I tried to interact with you yesterday on your level by RP'ing even with my responses, and you ignored it. I did not expect you to be here and now you're coming in hot sans gimmick, and I have to question what made you wait so long?

I interpret the words of the fingers. The fingers tremble. Let their wisdom wash over you.

No incentive to play a 40-player, 24-day prelude to proper mafia.

You signed up for the game knowing what you were getting into, why choose to be a player in a game that you knew would take almost a whole month in order to actually get going?

Why didn’t you step up after the first purge like everybody else did?

Why not? Play how I want. Does it further your cause in any way to lecture me right now?

nobody should be town reading that wall

why?

why would you?

it’s a ton of information instead of analysis and the analysis that’s there is a lot of rehashing of what other’s have already said. there’s nothing that’s really interesting or difficult for a wolf to post. generally, talking about interactions and spew is the easiest thing for a wolf to do because they can just say things that are true most of the time.

and more obviously, one wall of solving the entire game as soon as his NPC cover was blown and he can’t skate by anymore is not villagery

I’ll add too, that it’s one thing to gather the info in one place and have the data available to see. It is nice to have it together, I appreciate that as a reference

But no conclusions that are drawn are followed up with, the info is presented, maybe a takeaway or two is given, but there’s nothing done with it. It’s like the expectation is “here’s a wall, my work here is done” “but you didn’t nothing” “townread plz”

And Vivax specifically has been gone for at least an IRL week if not more, this is easily work that could’ve been done multiple day phases ago and had a bigger impact when it was immediately relevant. As it stands now, like you said it doesn’t provide anything new. It looks like meaningful content, and it would’ve been earlier, but it really isn’t much at this point

Nowhere did I express the expectation that I want to be townread, that’s your projection. And conclusions are there, you just downplayed or scrolled past them. This is my analysis MO pretty much always.

Vivax is the most tangible performance compared to Schiavetto’s to look into at any point, even though I touched upon the Schiavetto lynch as well.

Doing nothing would have gotten me turbo’d. Doing this is still on track to get me turbo’d. Message received on my end of having wasted my time. Question remains if you’re willing to waste a lynch. Two wolves will certainly not mind.

[Inawordyes]

yeah i dunno, i could be clearing porscha too easily

i don’t think her posts are amazing but i’ve seen enough villagery flashes still and don’t really see her absence as AI

i skimmed her iso in her last wolf game (anni G3) and her posts this game seem way better?

also, she’s been strongly town read at various points this game by people with more direct experience with her, which i’m inclined to put stock into because it fits my perception that she does seem to have a pretty clear meta gap

idk

It sounds like you’re ending on a townlean at minimum, but it doesn’t feel like that’s where you want to end up either. Kinda like you see all this good stuff but you’re trying to talk yourself into a townread that you don’t currently believe in - to which I ask what specifically is tugging hard enough in the scummy direction to drag Porscha to at least a conflicted null?

[Ricochet]

Rico, now that you can reply in not-full RP, why did you throw your vote onto Nanook of all players yesterphase?

Ohh, and... One more thing, only for you...

Didn’t put thought into any votes.

[Hally]

Hally's observation of "players that know Porscha tr the slot" recently also stood out to me as I thought it was mostly contrary to that being true. Seanzie Nut and Michelle all wolf read your slot and are gone.

i was talking about more so around mid game when porscha was posting a lot more consistently

afair she was town read by you, ender, lily, neon, etc

obviously i know that hasn’t lasted because she’s dropped off but there was definitely a point where she was regarded as being hard in her town meta, and when i look at her recent wolf game it’s easy to see why because her posting is a lot better here imo

[Inawordyes]

You are but a lamb. A stranger to defilement. Ignorant to your own ignorance.

Rico a question, why did you wait until now to start playing? I tried to interact with you yesterday on your level by RP'ing even with my responses, and you ignored it. I did not expect you to be here and now you're coming in hot sans gimmick, and I have to question what made you wait so long?

I interpret the words of the fingers. The fingers tremble. Let their wisdom wash over you.

No incentive to play a 40-player, 24-day prelude to proper mafia.

You signed up for the game knowing what you were getting into, why choose to be a player in a game that you knew would take almost a whole month in order to actually get going?

Why didn’t you step up after the first purge like everybody else did?

Why not? Play how I want. Does it further your cause in any way to lecture me right now?

nobody should be town reading that wall

why?

why would you?

it’s a ton of information instead of analysis and the analysis that’s there is a lot of rehashing of what other’s have already said. there’s nothing that’s really interesting or difficult for a wolf to post. generally, talking about interactions and spew is the easiest thing for a wolf to do because they can just say things that are true most of the time.

and more obviously, one wall of solving the entire game as soon as his NPC cover was blown and he can’t skate by anymore is not villagery

I’ll add too, that it’s one thing to gather the info in one place and have the data available to see. It is nice to have it together, I appreciate that as a reference

But no conclusions that are drawn are followed up with, the info is presented, maybe a takeaway or two is given, but there’s nothing done with it. It’s like the expectation is “here’s a wall, my work here is done” “but you didn’t nothing” “townread plz”

And Vivax specifically has been gone for at least an IRL week if not more, this is easily work that could’ve been done multiple day phases ago and had a bigger impact when it was immediately relevant. As it stands now, like you said it doesn’t provide anything new. It looks like meaningful content, and it would’ve been earlier, but it really isn’t much at this point

Nowhere did I express the expectation that I want to be townread, that’s your projection. And conclusions are there, you just downplayed or scrolled past them. This is my analysis MO pretty much always.

Vivax is the most tangible performance compared to Schiavetto’s to look into at any point, even though I touched upon the Schiavetto lynch as well.

Doing nothing would have gotten me turbo’d. Doing this is still on track to get me turbo’d. Message received on my end of having wasted my time. Question remains if you’re willing to waste a lynch. Two wolves will certainly not mind.

Ahhh, so many thoughts where do I start

I am very aware of my ignorance thank you, which is why I actively ask questions to illuminate the path forward

Taking it as a “lecture” and being insulted by the question furthers nobody’s cause. Yes you can play however you want, but the consequences of that play are yours, and while everybody else tried to play, you waited until the last possible second and you’re only giving a modicum of effort now that you’re forced to

Why post it if the goal wasn’t to get townread for it? You contradict your own point by complaining that you’re still on-track to be turbo’ed even afterward. Are you really trying to imply that you posted it just to post and you care so little for the game that yojre okay with dying?

How about instead of making self-righteous threats about your vote being a mischop, you actually take this information you’ve compiled and put it into action and prove that you’re town

[Inawordyes]

Rico, now that you can reply in not-full RP, why did you throw your vote onto Nanook of all players yesterphase?

Ohh, and... One more thing, only for you...

Didn’t put thought into any votes.

But you put so much thought into everybody else’s, got it

[Hally]

yeah i dunno, i could be clearing porscha too easily

i don’t think her posts are amazing but i’ve seen enough villagery flashes still and don’t really see her absence as AI

i skimmed her iso in her last wolf game (anni G3) and her posts this game seem way better?

also, she’s been strongly town read at various points this game by people with more direct experience with her, which i’m inclined to put stock into because it fits my perception that she does seem to have a pretty clear meta gap

idk

It sounds like you’re ending on a townlean at minimum, but it doesn’t feel like that’s where you want to end up either. Kinda like you see all this good stuff but you’re trying to talk yourself into a townread that you don’t currently believe in - to which I ask what specifically is tugging hard enough in the scummy direction to drag Porscha to at least a conflicted null?

i’m conflicted because nobody else seems to share my read and nut, seanzie and maybe michelle too died not town reading porscha

when i have a read nobody else has i get scared i’m wrong

[Inawordyes]

You had a vote that mattered, and you actively chose to do nothing worthwhile with it this whole game, and seem content with thag. You act like it’s an affront that you're potentially going to get chopped without self-reflection and responsibility-taking of your own hand in matters

But we’re the ones in the wrong

[Hally]

i’m not engaging with rico’s posts, too frustrated with how he’s chosen to play this game honestly

hope he’s a wolf

[Hally]

You had a vote that mattered, and you actively chose to do nothing worthwhile with it this whole game, and seem content with thag. You act like it’s an affront that you're potentially going to get chopped without self-reflection and responsibility-taking of your own hand in matters

But we’re the ones in the wrong

don’t waste your time honestly, anyone who has played the way he has doesn’t really care about anyone else in the game except themself

nothing you say is going to get through to him, he doesn’t care

[Inawordyes]

i’ve been privately entertaining that wilgy is a wolf who i’ve been town reading because he’s been using his TMI to post mostly correct stuff while so many people this game have had ??? reads

but even ignoring his posts there’s still stuff that makes me think he’s town

vivax pushed him and voted him easily when he was the cw to ran and had a real chance of dying

also, he had a crucial vote on vivax’s wagon to build it back up and idt vivax goes over without it

Is this Wilgy read the same but in the opposite direction Hally?

[Hally]

idk what you’re asking

[Inawordyes]

You had a vote that mattered, and you actively chose to do nothing worthwhile with it this whole game, and seem content with thag. You act like it’s an affront that you're potentially going to get chopped without self-reflection and responsibility-taking of your own hand in matters

But we’re the ones in the wrong

don’t waste your time honestly, anyone who has played the way he has doesn’t really care about anyone else in the game except themself

nothing you say is going to get through to him, he doesn’t care

I care, so I’m speaking my mind whether he listens or not, because this is a subject that hits a sore point for me as a mafia player

It’s all NAI anyways, I’m just frustrated but I’ll actually (try to) articulate that because it’s healthier than bottling it up and pretending it doesn’t bother me. If Rico is town, then not saying something also makes the choice for him by way of assumption and denies him the chance to prove me wrong

[Ricochet]

Eek... I hear a festive melody... No, no, don't skin me...

You are but a lamb. A stranger to defilement. Ignorant to your own ignorance.

Rico a question, why did you wait until now to start playing? I tried to interact with you yesterday on your level by RP'ing even with my responses, and you ignored it. I did not expect you to be here and now you're coming in hot sans gimmick, and I have to question what made you wait so long?

I interpret the words of the fingers. The fingers tremble. Let their wisdom wash over you.

No incentive to play a 40-player, 24-day prelude to proper mafia.

You signed up for the game knowing what you were getting into, why choose to be a player in a game that you knew would take almost a whole month in order to actually get going?

Why didn’t you step up after the first purge like everybody else did?

Why not? Play how I want. Does it further your cause in any way to lecture me right now?

nobody should be town reading that wall

why?

why would you?

it’s a ton of information instead of analysis and the analysis that’s there is a lot of rehashing of what other’s have already said. there’s nothing that’s really interesting or difficult for a wolf to post. generally, talking about interactions and spew is the easiest thing for a wolf to do because they can just say things that are true most of the time.

and more obviously, one wall of solving the entire game as soon as his NPC cover was blown and he can’t skate by anymore is not villagery

I’ll add too, that it’s one thing to gather the info in one place and have the data available to see. It is nice to have it together, I appreciate that as a reference

But no conclusions that are drawn are followed up with, the info is presented, maybe a takeaway or two is given, but there’s nothing done with it. It’s like the expectation is “here’s a wall, my work here is done” “but you didn’t nothing” “townread plz”

And Vivax specifically has been gone for at least an IRL week if not more, this is easily work that could’ve been done multiple day phases ago and had a bigger impact when it was immediately relevant. As it stands now, like you said it doesn’t provide anything new. It looks like meaningful content, and it would’ve been earlier, but it really isn’t much at this point

Nowhere did I express the expectation that I want to be townread, that’s your projection. And conclusions are there, you just downplayed or scrolled past them. This is my analysis MO pretty much always.

Vivax is the most tangible performance compared to Schiavetto’s to look into at any point, even though I touched upon the Schiavetto lynch as well.

Doing nothing would have gotten me turbo’d. Doing this is still on track to get me turbo’d. Message received on my end of having wasted my time. Question remains if you’re willing to waste a lynch. Two wolves will certainly not mind.

Ahhh, so many thoughts where do I start

I am very aware of my ignorance thank you, which is why I actively ask questions to illuminate the path forward

Taking it as a “lecture” and being insulted by the question furthers nobody’s cause. Yes you can play however you want, but the consequences of that play are yours, and while everybody else tried to play, you waited until the last possible second and you’re only giving a modicum of effort now that you’re forced to

Why post it if the goal wasn’t to get townread for it? You contradict your own point by complaining that you’re still on-track to be turbo’ed even afterward. Are you really trying to imply that you posted it just to post and you care so little for the game that yojre okay with dying?

How about instead of making self-righteous threats about your vote being a mischop, you actually take this information you’ve compiled and put it into action and prove that you’re town

Wasn’t forced to work on and start Day 8 with an analysis, am not forced to do anything further. Was of my own choice to actually play, now that game is playable and a 7v2 is advantageous not to waste with my conduit. Was a bit perceptive to Schiavetto having proven a wolf with same conduit I applied, sure.

Goal of the post was to hunt wolves. Townreads on myself are for others to ponder.

Nothing is a threat, I’m alerting to the peril of making a low hanging fruit or principled mislynch out of me, whatever your personal discontent. And since you (and Hally) started from the viewpoint of “why and how did I sign up at all if I didn’t want to play”, don’t spin it on me acting self-righteous. Accept the mystery.

Rico, now that you can reply in not-full RP, why did you throw your vote onto Nanook of all players yesterphase?

Ohh, and... One more thing, only for you...

Didn’t put thought into any votes.

But you put so much thought into everybody else’s, got it

Everybody else, in your own words, made an effort, so yeah, there’s value in reading it and analysing it.

[Inawordyes]

idk what you’re asking

Is the private W!Wilgy read like the Porscha read for you, but the other way around (trying to convince yourself that he’s mafia, as opposed to trying to convince yourself that Porscha is town)?

[Hally]

idk what you’re asking

Is the private W!Wilgy read like the Porscha read for you, but the other way around (trying to convince yourself that he’s mafia, as opposed to trying to convince yourself that Porscha is town)?

not really? my personal read on both is that they’re probably town but i recognize that others don’t share those reads so i’m trying to see the other side

i posted the reasons why i town read porscha so that i could give wilgy (or anyone else) the opportunity to talk to me about it and tell me why they disagree

i posted the stuff about wilgy more so talking to the room and trying to see if i could wrap my brain around a wilgy wolf world / allow people to engage with my thought process one way or another

the goal of both posts is really the same

[Inawordyes]

Okay, so where I stand right now = Hally towniest town, if Hally is a wolf we’ve already lost so I’m not even gonna worry with paranoia or tinfoil since it serves no benefit

Hally
Ilario
-
DeeZees/Wilgy/Porscha/Neon
-
Ricochet

I am more conflicted on Rico now than I was coming into the thread this morning based on his posts (as frustrating as they are), but I cannot in good conscience put him above anybody else because the gap is obviously massive

I need to reeval everybody in the middle, I think they’re roughly in the order listed but at this stage you don’t double down on your reads without properly giving both perspectives a fair shake. I just don’t have the time to do an ISO right now at work, but I’ll get to that later on hopefully when I’m back home

[Inawordyes]

idk what you’re asking

Is the private W!Wilgy read like the Porscha read for you, but the other way around (trying to convince yourself that he’s mafia, as opposed to trying to convince yourself that Porscha is town)?

not really? my personal read on both is that they’re probably town but i recognize that others don’t share those reads so i’m trying to see the other side

i posted the reasons why i town read porscha so that i could give wilgy (or anyone else) the opportunity to talk to me about it and tell me why they disagree

i posted the stuff about wilgy more so talking to the room and trying to see if i could wrap my brain around a wilgy wolf world / allow people to engage with my thought process one way or another

the goal of both posts is really the same

Then let’s run through both worldstates

I’m not even gonna care about Vivax or Schia associatives or spew to try and justify a W!Wilgy world, but I obviously do care about Wilgy spew towards and from the other 7 alive. So if Wilgy is mafia, then who is implicated the most from his thoughts on them and vice-versa?

In a V!Porscha world, that leaves 2 mafia in six (Rico/Neon/Ilario/Wilgy/DZ and each other from our separate viewpoints). At this point I think anybody who would’ve countered Ilario’s claim would’ve done so, so I’m willing to take it as true. That leaves 2 in 5

Who do you think has the most scum equity in Rico/Neon/Wilgy/DZ/Iawy?

[Inawordyes]

Or I guess that was a bad way to phrase it - in a W!Wilgy worldstate, Vivax and Schia’s spew doesn’t matter because whether it does or doesn’t implicate Wilgy, Wilgy is still mafia. But Wilgy’s spew can potentially implicate the last mafia since W!Wilgy would be a deeper wolf who’s been successfully laying low for the most part in this scenario, which neither Vivax or Schia were in this game

[Ricochet]

Spoken echoes linger here. Shall I share them with you?

==hallistic reads on players I couldn't infer anything from wolf interactions and wagons==

Of note in Neon’s ISO

Neon
D1-D2 overall grief and difficulty keeping up or pushing to read the backlog,
D1 reads Porscha town
D2 something in relation to TSP death and the deleter (claim?)
D2 vote on Ender, no reasoning (intentional sheep?)
D3 puts Porscha / Lily / Santy / Katze / Lumi in no-lynch tier
D3 principled take on NPC clears being okay for town
D3 bit of an omgus on nutella voting them? – later rebuttals on this being defensive towny
D3 stance on purge (i.e. D3) being the ”true start point of the game”, „ideal play is to just fuck around and bullshit until the purge”
D4? rescinds impression of having claimed deleter
D4 readings vibes on lilypetal
D4 vibes against Hally and with Porscha on chances of proper lynches / kills whilst NPCs still abound
D4 thinks Wilgy’s wagon has wolves
D4 probably the first ever interaction with DeeZees, at least that I’ve noticed
D4 vibes against IAWY as well on there being info to be gleande
D4 interactions with Vivax – the latter calling them “openwolfing”, but also unsure whether to wagon
D5 claims would never nightkill Ender
D5 states their votes on NPCs and off main wagons is within townrange
D5 banter with DeeZees on claiming wolf
D5 more rebuttals towards santy
D5 recap of Day votes: Chelsea on vibe they would flip wolf, Ender SR, Ran out of sheeping Porscha, Ender on reading role power claim as BS
D5 feels good about DeeZees (on account of what?), SRead Santy and Nutella
D5 rather at peace with being flipped by everyone (santy, Seanzie) sussing them
D6? nutella’s
D6? interaction with Porscha takes a bit of a dive
D6 post about focusing on lynching wolves and waiting for purge. Puts Schiavetto in a wolfcamp, but would rather lynch Nutella or pyxxy
D6 defends themselves against being mislynched; later notes difference of caring about game (in relation to “betrayal mash” meta)
D6 posts on hunting one wolf at a time
D6 laughs at Hally wolfreading their entire “erroneous” track record
D6 self-votes; then DeeZees’ votes
D6 first real take on DeeZees
D6 kinda votes Schiavetto just by going along with Jack
D6 again self-votes and asks to be cleared
D6 votes Porscha?!?!?
D6 gets a town read from DeeZees, jokecalls him “the only one who gets me”

Lol, reading now in full, I can see why they'd think of me pocketing, we seem such kindred spirits in the game disengagement and defensiveness and pleads to not be wasted on a mislynch. With the major difference that, y'kno, I didn't makes 300 posts nonetheless. And that they're not into ISO's, sadge. </3

Statistics of how their primary suspects flipped is not great, but they also claim it's in their town nature to do so. I couldn't say, being the first time I play with them. Nor have I read too many voices confirming this is indeed towneon consistent.

A lot of tense interactions and rebuttals with now-confirmed villagers and NPCs. Said confirmed villagers and NPCs perhaps missed a window and should have actually cleaned Neon, if they distrusted their style, voting, defensiveness etc. that much, but spilled milk under the bridge, I suppose.

Neon repeatedly self-voting in order to accomplish that (not prolonging the tensions and uncertainty and leading into LyLos with that) gives me a town vibe.

My fears lie in their lack of interactions with several players still alive, notably DeeZees (took 4 cycles to notice him, then townread him for no noticeable reason, then voted him at a later stage, then bonded again), Wilgy, plus nothing on ilario whatsoever?!. Too unfamiliar to tell if such things were genuine blindspots and cannot make a reasoned projection.

Spats with both IAWY and Hally I would lean as not happening between wolves.

Hardtowning Porscha this much is probably not the worthy wolf gamble I'd imagine, if either were to flip wolf - also clueless if one would pocket the other so strongly. Also also not sure why things got slightly sour last phase.

Don't understand either of their D8 votes, especially the current one on Wilgy.

Overall would gamble to think they will flip town, regardless of imperfections.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@Neon, why exactly are you voting me?

You are not gonna like the answer to that question lol.

I think it's important to have a counter wagon and will always advocate for such

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Also I think it's kinda bullshit how people are treating each other over play style differences and how much time and effort they could dedicate to a game this large with this many posts.

[Ricochet]

@Neon, why exactly are you voting me?

You are not gonna like the answer to that question lol.

I think it's important to have a counter wagon and will always advocate for such

Oh, a pleasure to see you. a pleasure indeed. I'd hoped to ask favour, when one of your ilk came along.

Might we at least counterwagon somebody I can myself vote on with any degree of confidence?

[DrWilgy]

I've caught up. Here's some thinks:

@DeeZees: This is the slot I've decided that I'm most scared of being wrong about. I've seen the arguments that the Vivax interactions were heavy handed then fell off, but I also see that there was some legitimate momentum gain towards a potential Vivax yeet when Deezees voted that I think makes them not W/W

@DrWilgy: Beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous. Wonderful thing. Deserves some hugs and cheese cake.

@Hally: I still TR. Reviewed the Falcon EoD and find that Hally having to choose between Nutella and Falcon would've had me doing the same thing I think.

@ilario: Cleared by lack of CC. Wish we had more involvement from the slot beyond that, but we take what we can get I suppose.

@Inawordyes: I mostly TR. I find myself agreeing with most lines of thinking. At first I had felt that there was an obscure lack of conclusions being drawn in spite of the thoughts and questions put out there, but after catching up and seeing some ends i.e. the thoughts on Neon and Hally, I read this as a mostly T voice.

@Neon: I want to SR but I think I don't. I find myself in agreement with iawy's take. Neon's persistence and frustration feels real, but also I don't see Neon playing to a game winning objective.

@Porscha: The way Porscha has come gunz blazing at me after most of my town core has been yeeted feels calculated. I agree with Neon that the AtE didn't make me feel good about the slot but I think now that the push on me makes for an easy way to yeet mostly town voices and get Porscha back in the game after being away for most of it.

@Ricochet: I agree with Hally that the wallpost shouldn't be town read. Feels very much manipulative to have that post and hold it until the npc's are gone. It's also not like any other slot who at least contributed in minor pre purge.

What makes DZ’s slot so important for what ultimately amounts to a hedgy both-coins read?

Can you go more in-depth on what you mean by “obscure lack of conclusions”?

How much of your read on Porscha is ‘legitimate’ and how much of it is OMGUS and what ultimately amounts to thirdhand downstream echoes? (considering part of the reason you mention for your read is based on agreeing with Neon’s read of Porscha, and part of the reason for your read on Neon is based on agreeing with me, so it’s like this disjointed follow-through)

Put more simply, you townread me, okay. You townread Neon in part because you put stock in my read of Neon, okay. But you scumread Porscha in part because you put stock in Neon’s read of Porscha, which unlike the Neon read isn’t grounded in a trust for its own sake but like a weaker piggyback off of what’s already a secondhand read, if that makes any sense

Doubt on my own read. Deezees came into the thread and pushed hard for Vivax between me becoming a wagon and ran becoming a wagon. It feels like a genuine shot at forming a counter wagon. However, I did think Deezees being willing to play the npc game is weird and Rico's recent analysis doesn't help. It gives Deezees more w tension than I think they should have and this I'm doubting my own read.

Early game, all I remember from your slot was a TR on Porscha and quite afew posts that didn't result in a solid read out of you, mostly ideas on certain NAI subjects and questions that didn't go anywhere. It wasn't until more recently you started putting out data that lets me get a better grasp on where your head is at. It feels like a footing thing.

Other players voicing opinions on players build tension towards W or T. I don't think it's invalid to weigh data out in by both you and Neon when forming my Porscha read. I think I detailed some information on Porscha further not too long ago that seems relevant to this question.

My read on Neon is impacted by you, yes, but also because I don't see the objective based gameplay I expect from W Neon.

My read on Porscha is impacted by Neon, yes, but also because I both don't really believe that their suspicion on me is genuine and also that the responses under Seanzies pressure were towny. I do wish for Porscha to respond to me though as I think it's important.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@Neon, why exactly are you voting me?

You are not gonna like the answer to that question lol.

I think it's important to have a counter wagon and will always advocate for such

Oh, a pleasure to see you. a pleasure indeed. I'd hoped to ask favour, when one of your ilk came along.

Might we at least counterwagon somebody I can myself vote on with any degree of confidence?

Sure i moved to DZ

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'm more confident in DZ being scum than Wilgy anyways

[DrWilgy]

I just realized I'll likely not be around for EoD. Vet appt in an hour.

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

[Ricochet]

Spoken echoes linger here. Shall I share them with you?

==hallistic reads on players I couldn't infer anything from wolf interactions and wagons==

ilario

Cleared based on claim, I suppose. If it's fake on his part and/or town slept on countering, it's on them.

Of note in Porscha’s ISO

D2 still not hooked to the game and will not wolf side
D3 comment on not having noticed DeeZees in the game
D3 still without reads or willing to offer them
D3 makes huge statement on Ranmilia
D3 “why vivax cfd” comment appears in relation with nothing
D3 clears neon’s deleter claim as not wolf (for not shooting randomly)
D4? confirms Neon defensiveness is not necessarily wolf-indicative
D4? hella pinged by lily (TMI)
D4 reads a mega post from neon town
D5 reasoning policy, followed by ping vision on santy
D5 talk with ilario, inclined to tr neon (indignation genuine and ender stuff)
D5 comments on falcon and pyxxy pocketing
D6 finds IAWY votes solid?
D6 brush of IAWY posts based on wordiness
D6 ping on neon
D6 not willing to read Vivax ISO
D6 spat with Seanzie and later nutella
D6 wants to lynch falcon for slanking?
D6 back on voting falcon (prefers it), then michelle (what if)
D7 in theme of wolf slacking, sees rather Wilgy as candidate then Schiavetto
D7 “s’pose I should vote for Schia here eh”

Bit frustrating read and I ended with nothing concrete on what makestheir game clearable. Had some tunnel vision phases on certain players, developed a stronk defensive take on D6 with now-confirmed towners, total dip in activity since. Backs up a lot of info on Neon playing their town game.

Hunt progression either unfortunately not very focused or in fact not casting the towniest vibe. Ranmilia was sort of a policy issue, reads fine for early stage. Ping stuff on lily, don't even recall if it materialised into a vote. Falcon angle already low on reason and context. By D6 skipping on rebuttals to active players (IAWY) or analysis of caught wolves (Vivax). Wilgy ping also low on context.

Now that I've rewinded, Schiavetto vote comes back up as something they just followed through.

Some blindspots with players still alive just like Neon. Nothing on DeeZees, ilario.

I've started this ISO and Neon searching for the profile of someone totally unconnected with the paths taken by Vivax and Schiavetto. Well, there's zero interest in Vivax read and ultimate lynch. And there's just conformity with ditching the zero poster wolf. And falcon probably the only big wagon ever embarked on, I think? Unlikely to get any traction this phase, but my sense is that this could fit the profile.

[Ricochet]

Now we're squared up, how about we play nice from now on?

T
ilario
Wilgy

T-lean
Hally
Neon
IAWY

W
Porscha
DeeZees

Thanks for not reading.

[Inawordyes]

Now we're squared up, how about we play nice from now on?

T
ilario
Wilgy

T-lean
Hally
Neon
IAWY

W
Porscha
DeeZees

Thanks for not reading.

With fruits of your labor, sure!

What makes you put Wilgy higher than Hally? Or specifically, what makes Hally only a townlean?

[Ricochet]

Now we're squared up, how about we play nice from now on?

T
ilario
Wilgy

T-lean
Hally
Neon
IAWY

W
Porscha
DeeZees

Thanks for not reading.

With fruits of your labor, sure!

What makes you put Wilgy higher than Hally? Or specifically, what makes Hally only a townlean?

Well, there you are again.

Wilgy based off how he buried Vivax when at 1-vote wagon and partially militated as well for Schiavetto lynch. It's in "fooled me" camp at this point, if coordinated.

Not ISO'ing Hally, because 600 posts is beyond me. Whatever frustrations they're relaying, I'll gamble that it's coming from town at this point. Plus, just like Michelle, I'd say they wouldn't stick their head to oppose a Schiavetto policy lynch this heavily as wolfmates.

[DeeZees]

Hi

Ricochets poe is the lhf lets kill him pew pew pew