Cartomancy [Game Over]

[MacDougall]

Just reading the judgement card and I'm not even certain when it would be played. If I'm reading it right it looks like it's submitted before the day begins.

[Porscha]

I think it's probably a good thought exercise to consider whether mafia spf and mafia mac would actually interact with each other in this way. Where has been my effort to put distance between us? I've played nothing like my wolf game with her.

I'd be more likely mafia with Tutuu if I was.

Well since I refuse to believe you're wolfing the exercise is trying to see who is giving you the pocket fondle

[Porscha]

Lucy and mac are there *any* players who you both could agree to on a flip today. As long as it isnt game losing, even if it isnt even ideal? Like maybe a shift away from the big 4 focus could be useful right now

Anyway goodnight

[MacDougall]

I've had moments of doubt towards spf. I literally ended d2 voting spf because I was having one of my patented come to God moments and spf mocked me and self voted in response and then the mafia ended the day lol.

I've just been locked into living in the world she's town the whole time because we've had almost the same reads nearly the entire time.

Quirky coincidence innit

Idk. I think just via style alone I probably find spf townier than tutuu in a lot of worldsbut since I lack spf skill I'm trying not to get confbiased because it's getting down to crunch time and I want to believe lucy has all the answers but the reality is we dont have a confirmed 5. And since you and her are at such odds with reads I feel like I am walking 2 dogs who are always trying to go in directly opposite directions and its causing me a bit of trouble

I can see why Lucy thinks Sabi and I are mafia but I am pretty sure that Lucy hasn't read all the posts cuz there was a stretch where Bereft and I were convincing Sabi that our townreads on them were real where Sabi and I were interacting in an obviously unpartnered way. Sabi also engaged me on my Creature read in a very obviously unpartnered way. Lucy is just letting mech overrule reading the content. SPF has made it very obvious why Tutuu is mafia. Her solve is simply not genuine. And at this point the audacity of it actually benefits her because town make points like you made about it being too obvious etc. Tutuu is a very very good wolf. One of the best you will ever play with. I'm afraid this is a lesson people are learning in real time.

[MacDougall]

I think it's probably a good thought exercise to consider whether mafia spf and mafia mac would actually interact with each other in this way. Where has been my effort to put distance between us? I've played nothing like my wolf game with her.

I'd be more likely mafia with Tutuu if I was.

Well since I refuse to believe you're wolfing the exercise is trying to see who is giving you the pocket fondle

I'm gonna go with the person who has stopped at lylo abruptly to sheep an obviously bogus mech solve over the person who is maintaining the read when they no longer need to.

Like... why does SPF need to maintain the illusion now? She could just be like wow Mac fooled me lol vote Mac. Much like Tutuu is.

Thats probably another reason we are townreading each other abnormally. It gets to a point where the Mac siding (or in spf's case the spf siding) gets to a point where it no longer has wolf utility so it has to just be town.

Also Tutuu appealed to me aggressively and pockety constantly. SPF just townread me and hardly engaged with me. I know how wolves pocket me and it's a constant job to keep me there.

[MacDougall]

It's just really really strange. I don't know how to unpack that in a game where Lucy is being treated as an inno child, and SPF and I are pretty well in our town meta, we're mostly being ignored while the syndicate meme gang all try to kill two players all three of us have been townreading strongly.

I'm just trying to think of a way that the continued existence of the Alison and Baudib wagons exists given the aforementioned and I think the correct answer is that it's either a mix of wrong town with opportunistic scum voting with the,. If Alison and Baudib are really mafia, there is enough town defense of them occurring and town trying to chop elsewhere for the mafia to have easily killed those wagons by now imo.

signal boosting because these thoughts are ones i'm extremely frustrated with

Remember...

Remember...

Gods we were strong back then.

[MacDougall]

Here's the patented Mac rub.

A lot of people are less playing mafia with a town process and more throwing out thought bubbles and have perspectives that make my lip curl up and make me wish they were playing a different mafia game I'm not in. I begrudge nobody for suspecting or hating the play of these folks.

Wilgy
Jack
Neon
Tutuu
Seanzie
Falcon
Creature

Then there are people who are just like ... not doing much of anything and aren't really redeemable but for whatever reason it seems like there's a moratorium on suspecting them.

Roxy
Finger
Kate

Then there are some players who aren't doing much but they kinda town.

Bereft
Porscha
Dennis

And then there's everyone else. We shall call them "folks who appear to be playing a game of mafia and not a game of scrabble". I like all of them and if you are voting them ur a nerd.

If your name is in the top group and you are town please have a strong coffee, freshly evaluate the game and make some posts that are designed purposefully to be read and understood by a belligerent old townie person so I can stop hating your existence.

Thanks.

Alison (she/her)
Baudib1 (he/him)
lucy (she/her)
RondoDimBuckle (any/Rondo)
sig (he/him)
staypositivefriend (she/her)

This is the list of people you have as ""folks who appear to be playing a game of mafia and not a game of scrabble". I like all of them and if you are voting them ur a nerd."?

Tell me about Rondo.

That feel when I had most of the scumteam solved day 1 and am alive on day 6 with zero pelts, being scumread for not having killed mafia despite having nearly no control all game because those mafia have been hard wolfsiding since day 1 literally because they had no choice because they got locked into the poe by me on day 1.

[Porscha]

Okay I made it to bed but the mental hamster wont stop running

Here is another thought
I am thinking about creature (derogatory) ((wolfy))
Creature has a simple tell. His media posting ratio to post ratio. And it is way off
He has had some mildly redeeming moments but also times where he desperately needed to be redeemed
Ultimately mac I did not consider that a town creature could have used judgment to save himself because I am not nearly as charitable in my reading of him as you here
So in my eyes it was
1) Creature was zealot, still dont understand any reasoning as to why he cant be
2) Creature was wolf who wolves saved
3) Creature was wolf who a town saved
4) Creature was town who a town saved
5) dont think creature would be town who wolves save
So since 3/4 of those options include him being a wolf I am still inclined to believe that's quite possible
And that also loops back into my issue with tutuu/spf, cuz I fear creature could have been getting bussed and that would point to spf and not tutuu in that world

[MacDougall]

Yes I just reread his iso and have come to the conclusion I'm townreading him as one of my patented idiot re-evaluation.

[MacDougall]

Okay I made it to bed but the mental hamster wont stop running

Here is another thought
I am thinking about creature (derogatory) ((wolfy))
Creature has a simple tell. His media posting ratio to post ratio. And it is way off
He has had some mildly redeeming moments but also times where he desperately needed to be redeemed
Ultimately mac I did not consider that a town creature could have used judgment to save himself because I am not nearly as charitable in my reading of him as you here
So in my eyes it was
1) Creature was zealot, still dont understand any reasoning as to why he cant be
2) Creature was wolf who wolves saved
3) Creature was wolf who a town saved
4) Creature was town who a town saved
5) dont think creature would be town who wolves save
So since 3/4 of those options include him being a wolf I am still inclined to believe that's quite possible
And that also loops back into my issue with tutuu/spf, cuz I fear creature could have been getting bussed and that would point to spf and not tutuu in that world

SPF's meta read on Creature is accurate and shows town solving mindset. It also dates back to day 1. It's not like there was some sudden opportunism there. And outing Creature to bus him so he doesn't flip isn't really something wolf SPF needs to do as opposed to like killing a scummy town, which wouldn't have been hard.

I've seen no opportunism from SPF really at all.

[Porscha]

God sometimes youre so convincing
Okay lucy red alert I want to vote tutuu and not spf rn but like I know that's not what you said so I need you to be honest on how confident you are that tutuu cant be a part of the solve and if there is a chance spf isnt because maybe we are onto something here

[Porscha]

Okay like I'm gonna pressure check it but by no means am I locked in

[Porscha]

But also mac like dont you think spf could potentially have just set up to bus creature from the get go

Ugh but then also like why would she bother doing all that yesterday when other wagons were viable

But also think of the cred

But also wolves are already ahead so why not take advantage of other wagon instead

[Porscha]

This game is mentally torturing me into sleep deprivation I have to go for real but
@staypositivefriend how are you feeling about creature today

[MacDougall]

what cred does she get from bussing someone who doesn't flip?

[tutuu]

@lucy there's 1 town in sig, porscha and dennis and they're voting for me lol

we might lose if we don't convince them by eod

im busy rn

[tutuu]

no im not that busy ill spare

@Porscha @sig @Dennis if youre town how can you townread mac who literally gave up at points and started doing some spew stuff preparing for his death. and also gave up pretending to be town at points

I think it's probably a good thought exercise to consider whether mafia spf and mafia mac would actually interact with each other in this way. Where has been my effort to put distance between us? I've played nothing like my wolf game with her.

I'd be more likely mafia with Tutuu if I was.

second sentence is clearly trying to get town paranoid if im maf with him, he expected to die

Tutuu had wishy washy nonsense reads on Jack and Wilgy early. She townread Dennis for nothing then out of nowhere started tunneling him (cuz he's Zealot).

blatant openwolfing / setting up spew on dennis

Btw Dennis is the zealot imo.

setting up spew

Okay Lucy I'm using my one time pass here. I only get one of these trust claims ever. We've discussed this. You know what I'm talking about. I'm breaking the glass.

did you expect this to work?

Well I wouldn't do something that goofy as mafia like ever.

openwolfing, resigning that he was the chop so might as well say something funny

Okay Lucy I'm using my one time pass here. I only get one of these trust claims ever. We've discussed this. You know what I'm talking about. I'm breaking the glass.

.

I might be being super dumb about Creature but something about his posts just pocket me. And he really doesn't seem like he can be with Tutuu. Tutuu also seems to have a lot of sanctimony when arguing with SPF about her and Creature being compatible.

I think Tutuu probably was just being an active pockety wolf with the Creature save attempts and thought sig would go over easily but then sig got super super townie and then I decided to try to bait mafia to vote sig and made myself look scummy cuz Creature didn't die because he had the judgement card.

its just funny / trolling. please read the sentence carefully and imagine someone saying it in a serious tone.

sig, porscha, dennis, the one among u who is town - what are you doing?

why aren't you following the confirmed town power role who can obtain mech info about wolf?

@Sabiplz ill include u too just for good measure

im at a loss as to how u guys are ignoring lucy's wolf peeks, ignoring mac and spf wolfy outrage at being called mafia and just voting me (except sabi)

dennis and sig have been tunneling me. ok

@Porscha according to lucy there's literally a mechanically confirmed mafia between mac and spf. not both of them, but one. and u choose to vote for option C - me.

u bow down before mac so much that u trust him over lucy - sure. but that means spf is confirmed mafia ...

if u think im the mafia in me/spf and she's town, then mac is confirmed mafia

we have. a. confirmed. town. role. that. can. find. mafia. by. mech.

she. found. mafia.

vote. for. the. discovered. mafia.

???

[tutuu]

let me just repeat

@Porscha @Porscha @Porscha

according to lucy there's literally a mechanically confirmed mafia between mac and spf. not both of them, but one. and u choose to vote for option C - me.

literally what?

pinging you all too

@sig @Sabiplz @Dennis

[tutuu]

if sig is the town - he wanted alison's death and then wanted my death for like 3 days non-stop. has not done a single thing other than that. instantly snap votes me this day phase

if porscha is the town - she does what she just did? "mac you're so convincing, ill trust you over the peeked town who has 4 wolf peeks"

what?

[tutuu]

Porscha it's day 5, it's almost LyLo, we have no wolf deaths

u respect MacDougall as a player

and u choose to sheep him in a game state where he is

1) alive on day 5
2) no dead wolves on day 5

u trust him more than the IC

@sig and so do you?

[tutuu]

game has clearly been controlled by wolves. because there are no wolf deaths. duh

not siding with the IC and just doing what u want is just gamethrowing lol

like, pull it together please? in what world do you ever side AGAINST the ic??

[MacDougall]

how the hell did i "literally give up at points"?

[tutuu]

@Porscha @sig sorry for all the pings, i hope it doesnt come off like im yelling or strangling you. im just invested coz i dont wanna randomly lose like this

can you please explain to me why you think trusting your own townread on macdougall is a better route to go for, than trusting the (both personal and potentially mechanical) scumread on macdougall by an innocent child lucy?

do you think lucy is dumb and doesn't understand how the game or her role works? u think that her being dumb is a more likely scenario than your townread on mac being wrong?

[tutuu]

I think these were t/t wagons hahahaha

I swear to god, if sig is the town that I'm supposed to convince then just ...

Hello darkness my old friend.

[tutuu]

@sig @Porscha

Another exercise. Let's ignore Mac and SPF for a second. Put them aside.

Lucy has mech knowledge that one of you is mafia.

Both of you are trying to kill me right now. You're voting alongside all of Lucy's scumreads. You are voting with at least 1 person that you KNOW is outed mafia (porscha/sig)

What does that tell you?

Please, tell me what do you think this means.

[Sabiplz]

I trust my read that creature is outted wolf over lucy ego reads about her ever changing mafia team solves that has happened every 10 post of hers this game.

[Sabiplz]

Anyway I'm not wasting my last day of being 28 on this game. I said what I said and don't think I can convince anyone of anything atp.

Hopefully I'm nked for pushing creature. Gn

[falcon45ca]

@falcon45ca
@Sabiplz
@staypositivefriend
@Bereft
@sig
@Porscha

If any of you are intending to vote for myself or SPF today and sheep Lucy please let me know because I'm not going to try very hard if the game is already over.

If the 7 of us can coalesce and vote together on a mafia that'd be great.

I am hungover and at work...so my energy level is Sloth for at least the next 25 minutes

[Jackofhearts2005]

Mac, I know you’re excited to get to the “guess the zealot” portion of the game but come on.

@lucy if mac is the zealot i just think u should consider jack mafia

Otherwise i fully trust ur judgement Queen

Thanks for saving the game <3

Anyone whos trynna bully lucy - u answer to me first.

Mac can’t be the zealot because he drew the judgement card or a different card. Lucy wouldn’t direct us there if he could be the zealot.

And since you’re the second person to misunderstand the joke…

“Guess the zealot” in my head is when town can win but must guess the zealot correctly and get them last, a rough lylo where we can vote out a wolf and still lose. So I wasn’t saying anything about any specific player being a zealot. I was insinuating Mac was trying to misyeet, bringing us to the portion of the game where town not only has to yeet wolves but correctly guess the zealot.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I hate how I’m being forced to consider worlds where Tutuu is town but I kinda think in a world where Mac is a wolf and SPF is town and SPF is like “I trust Mac so much that I’m going to ignore a claimed red peek on him and say that Lucy just doesn’t understand mech” then it’s not really my fault if we misyeet SPF or if we misyeet today because SPF won’t vote with the rest of the town.

That is, I can assume SPF wolf because if SPF is town, nothing I do matters and the loss isn’t my fault.

[tutuu]

@Jackofhearts2005 Alright Jackie boy, I see now.

@Porscha I really apologize for pinging you so much, I hope it's not too annoying. This will be the last one.

I'll just write one final post about this. I'm not pinging sig because I'm pretty sure you're the town.

Before you say that I'm overreacting to your vote on me - I didn't care about any of the other people voting me today because I'm scumreading all of them. Lucy coming in with red peeks on them reinforced me being calm. That's why I've been mocking them and trolling them. Because it's funny. So why not?

I'm taking you seriously and responding to you seriously because I think you're town. I have no reason to troll you, that's why I'm talking to you differently.

Look, Porscha - today is de facto LyLo. How? Mischop today leads to 6v5 tomorrow. Zealot has his shield. We can't win that.

You said that it's okay if we mischop today - but no. No, it's not okay lol!

Literally the entire game rides on this chop. Today. Today is the most important day of the game.

Lucy has a solve of 5 wolves. They will all start falling like dominoes. We need to chop 1 and it's GG. They need to chop me and it's GG. And they CAN chop me because of the card that puts 2 extra votes on someone, and if 1 town doesn't vote with the rest towns.

So every single town vote today decides the whole game. Hence why I'm taking this so seriously, and I'm so scared of you voting me. Because I don't wanna lose. And this game is easy to win.

I just want you to confirm to me that you acknowledge these three things:

1) If you are town, and if you don't think that lucy is lying, then you KNOW that sig is Mafia. YOU KNOW this

2) Today is de facto LyLo

3) IF you decide to keep your vote on me at EoD, then essentially, you are betting the whole game on your personal townread on Mac (based off his day talk) as the right thing, over Lucy's (IC with pseudo-investigative abilities) scumread on Mac, based not only on day talk, but mechanics / night actions.

Please, acknowledge these 3 points and I'm not bothering you any more

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like it’s the easiest thing in the world for a wolf to put on a smile and go along with a red peek. There’s a wolf tendency to “disagree” with obviously true things that would cause them to lose or delay a win (SPF, Sabi). But it’s totally possible for Tutuu to just be a wolf building the easiest credit in the world.

BUT

Since I’m in Mac and SPF are wolves and Sig is town worlds, I need to reevaluate Tutuu from her prior “lock wolf” position. Luckily, we have prescribed yeets so I have plenty of time to do this. This is fine. This is good. Embrace the fun of being fooled one way or the other and keep solving.

[tutuu]

I hate how I’m being forced to consider worlds where Tutuu is town

I don't see how's it so surprising that I'm town!

I was wrong on some stuff sure, but, maybe me getting defensive over Dennis and SPF was correct looks like. Townreading Creature also seems like it was correct.

SPF has done NOTHING today but to cry and moan about me. I don't think she talked about any other single person.

Mac talked about other people but if you read his posts he was obviously prepared to die and he was trying to set up spew.

Jack, yesterday the wolves got high on sniffing their trolling glue and openwolfed too much out of sheer disrespect to the town. Dennis outed both Mac and SPF for the lols.

Townies don't troll at EoD, wolves do.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m more just trying to psych myself up to not be like “Tutuu is still a wolf because I was sooooo sure yesterday” and also not go “Tutuu is town cause she’s gonna vote with me and Lucy” and actually like take the time to look at your slot again with fresh eyes.

I get what you’re saying with the trolling cause….that’s almost exactly the reason I began strongly scumreading you, thinking you were trolling townies.

[Jackofhearts2005]

For the record, I’m just gonna follow Lucy’s vote all day and not call votes for Max and SPF because it’s way more important to vote together on the wolf pair than to vote a specific one. Idk why we specifically shifted to w!SPF from w!Mac but it doesn’t really matter.

[Bereft]

@falcon45ca
@Sabiplz
@staypositivefriend
@Bereft
@sig
@Porscha

If any of you are intending to vote for myself or SPF today and sheep Lucy please let me know because I'm not going to try very hard if the game is already over.

If the 7 of us can coalesce and vote together on a mafia that'd be great.

I have no intent obviously.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m more just trying to psych myself up to not be like “Tutuu is still a wolf because I was sooooo sure yesterday” and also not go “Tutuu is town cause she’s gonna vote with me and Lucy” and actually like take the time to look at your slot again with fresh eyes.

I get what you’re saying with the trolling cause….that’s almost exactly the reason I began strongly scumreading you, thinking you were trolling townies.

Which at the time was me and Sig…..but probably SPF so I need to reevaluate that.

I’m just tired. I have to work today and deal with my son bringing home live so there’s a lot of “I need to look at X” thoughts and not a lot of motivation to actually do that this morning.

[Bereft]

@staypositivefriend please persuade me that Creature is not zealot. I don't want to chop him again and it not work.

I think it would be very hard for us to be misled into thinking that zealot in Sig/Porscha is not good info and you should reread if you didnt know this.

[tutuu]

I’m more just trying to psych myself up to not be like “Tutuu is still a wolf because I was sooooo sure yesterday” and also not go “Tutuu is town cause she’s gonna vote with me and Lucy” and actually like take the time to look at your slot again with fresh eyes.

I get what you’re saying with the trolling cause….that’s almost exactly the reason I began strongly scumreading you, thinking you were trolling townies.

Fair. Also I apologize for yesterday. Well at EoD I said ratchety stuff just for the laughs, we talked about how I didn't mean them.

But I think I still went too hard on you. Sorry.

Earlier I managed to find you as town, just like Creature. It was a "Hero town read". I called you lock town. It was a hero townread because you were in the PoE and a lot of people wanted you dead. So I was proud of myself for the bravery of the read, and then seeing you scumread me a few posts after that and go ham on me was a hit to my morale. Not that you should feel bad about it obviously, Mafia is Mafia, we all trynna play the game, I'm just explaining where I'm coming from. You know I respect you right? :P
I regret calling you a shitter and stuff like that even if I was mostly trying to be funny. I should have reigned it in a bit.

Hug. Sorry.

Also, do you remember how Mac started calling you lock town the moment you:

1) started pushing me and creature
2) defended spf, dennis and co.

Now why would he do that? :P

[tutuu]

@falcon45ca
@Sabiplz
@staypositivefriend
@Bereft
@sig
@Porscha

If any of you are intending to vote for myself or SPF today and sheep Lucy please let me know because I'm not going to try very hard if the game is already over.

If the 7 of us can coalesce and vote together on a mafia that'd be great.

I have no intent obviously.

At least 1 mafia is voting me right now. (sig/porscha). Today is de facto lylo. You think I'm being bussed?

If not - then Mac and SPF are both obvious mafia. The entire mafia team and 1 villager are on me lol

[Bereft]

Porscha who has fallen off a cliff
Jack
Wilgy
Tutuu
Dennis

This is my final solve.

Wow that was really easy. I mean yeah. The team is basically within 6 people, zealot within 2.

[Bereft]

Porscha who has fallen off a cliff
Jack
Wilgy
Tutuu
Dennis

This is my final solve.

Wait nevermind I don't get it. Where's Creature. Team is within 7, Zealot is within 2.

[tutuu]

Seanzie and Rondo are the past 2 night kills, both tunneling Mac.

It is day 5 and we have no dead wolves. Yesterday's wagon was on a villager.

Come on Bereft.

[Bereft]

My current theory is that town Creature used judgement and saved himself lol.

And how exactly does Creature not do something to indicate this may be the case if we did live in that world?

[tutuu]

@staypositivefriend please persuade me that Creature is not zealot. I don't want to chop him again and it not work.

I think it would be very hard for us to be misled into thinking that zealot in Sig/Porscha is not good info and you should reread if you didnt know this.

My understanding was that sig/porscha is the one who played the card that stopped the chop. I could have forgotten already.

[Bereft]

I feel like I'm being obvious town right now.

You have been most of all game, yes.

[sig]

Lucy and mac are there *any* players who you both could agree to on a flip today. As long as it isnt game losing, even if it isnt even ideal? Like maybe a shift away from the big 4 focus could be useful right now

Anyway goodnight

Nope this isn’t the road to go down since we’re two votes away from this being end game

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m more just trying to psych myself up to not be like “Tutuu is still a wolf because I was sooooo sure yesterday” and also not go “Tutuu is town cause she’s gonna vote with me and Lucy” and actually like take the time to look at your slot again with fresh eyes.

I get what you’re saying with the trolling cause….that’s almost exactly the reason I began strongly scumreading you, thinking you were trolling townies.

Fair. Also I apologize for yesterday. Well at EoD I said ratchety stuff just for the laughs, we talked about how I didn't mean them.

But I think I still went too hard on you. Sorry.

Earlier I managed to find you as town, just like Creature. It was a "Hero town read". I called you lock town. It was a hero townread because you were in the PoE and a lot of people wanted you dead. So I was proud of myself for the bravery of the read, and then seeing you scumread me a few posts after that and go ham on me was a hit to my morale. Not that you should feel bad about it obviously, Mafia is Mafia, we all trynna play the game, I'm just explaining where I'm coming from. You know I respect you right? :P
I regret calling you a shitter and stuff like that even if I was mostly trying to be funny. I should have reigned it in a bit.

Hug. Sorry.

Also, do you remember how Mac started calling you lock town the moment you:

1) started pushing me and creature
2) defended spf, dennis and co.

Now why would he do that? :P

That’s not a bad point.

Ugh I don’t want to reevaluate Creature too.

[Bereft]

Town: Bereft/Lucy/Mac/SPF/Sabi/Falcon

Zealot Pool: Porscha/Sig
Rest: Creature/Tutuu/Dennis/Wilgy/Jack

[Jackofhearts2005]

And ofc I like you a lot, Tutuu.