Cartomancy [Game Over]

[Bereft]

@staypositivefriend please persuade me that Creature is not zealot. I don't want to chop him again and it not work.

I think it would be very hard for us to be misled into thinking that zealot in Sig/Porscha is not good info and you should reread if you didnt know this.

My understanding was that sig/porscha is the one who played the card that stopped the chop. I could have forgotten already.

I give up at this point. No and no.

[Bereft]

Hmm, its confirmed that the zealot is voting for tutuu right now, that's an interesting one.

I am now having second doubts about this piece of info because I now realize this information could also have been abused but I really don't want to think about this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually footage of this game.

[tutuu]

Town: Bereft/Lucy/Mac/SPF/Sabi/Falcon

Zealot Pool: Porscha/Sig
Rest: Creature/Tutuu/Dennis/Wilgy/Jack

Bereft, do you think Lucy is silly? Do you think she got confused by her role and isn't a reliable source of info when she says that she has a red peek on Sabi and SPF?

Just asking, not trying to be sassy. You acknowledge that you're choosing to trust your personal read based off day talk more so than Lucy's read based off whatever mech info she may or may not have been permitted to say, or happen, or see, or w/e?

I dunno, I think trusting the IC with pseudo-investigative abilities is a no-brainer. I had sabi as lock town. The moment Lucy said sabi is scum - sabi is scum for me. I don't question it. It seems like the most sensible thing to do, to me

[tutuu]

Actually footage of this game.

[Bereft]

She didnt even say she got a red peek on Sabi wtf.

[tutuu]

idk what to say man lol

the wolves literally started outing themselves yesterday out of sheer disrespect

lucy comes in with red peeks on them

u guys are choosing to trust ur old reads over that

well.

[tutuu]

She didnt even say she got a red peek on Sabi wtf.

ISO her. she did

she got a red on spf + sabi

to be honest i dont even understand it, idc, i trust her

[Creature]

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

[robyn]

tutuu stop posting

schweppes, read back up from d5 start and trust that i’m telling the truth and understand mechanics

[Bereft]

She didnt even say she got a red peek on Sabi wtf.

ISO her. she did

she got a red on spf + sabi

to be honest i dont even understand it, idc, i trust her

????????

You know, if you were trying to convince me of anything, it would help if you read the thread carefully like a villager world. I only do with facts and logic sorry.

You should've just said, "I trust her". And guess what, if Lucy wants to proclaim Mac/SPF are simultaneously outed due to personal reads, I am free to claim theyre both simultaneously obvious $%#!ing town due to personal reads.

[Creature]

Mac + SPF + Sabi + Dennis + sig?

[Creature]

She didnt even say she got a red peek on Sabi wtf.

ISO her. she did

she got a red on spf + sabi

to be honest i dont even understand it, idc, i trust her

????????

You know, if you were trying to convince me of anything, it would help if you read the thread carefully like a villager world. I only do with facts and logic sorry.

You should've just said, "I trust her". And guess what, if Lucy wants to proclaim Mac/SPF are simultaneously outed due to personal reads, I am free to claim theyre both simultaneously obvious $%#!ing town due to personal reads.

Obvious town? Where?

[Bereft]

tutuu stop posting

schweppes, read back up from d5 start and trust that i’m telling the truth and understand mechanics

Srsly, Schweppes?

Im dipping until whenever someone has something interesting to say.

[Creature]

tutuu stop posting

schweppes, read back up from d5 start and trust that i’m telling the truth and understand mechanics

lol is Bereft Schweppes?

[Creature]

tutuu stop posting

schweppes, read back up from d5 start and trust that i’m telling the truth and understand mechanics

Srsly, Schweppes?

Im dipping until whenever someone has something interesting to say.

I want to dip until it is near EOD so we can lynch SPF.

[Creature]

Mac + SPF + Sabi + Dennis + sig?

Bereft as backup if one of them is town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

There being at least one wolf mechanically confirmed in SPF and Mac and at least one in Sig and Porscha and all four are voting together at lylo is fucking wild.

[Dennis]

no im not that busy ill spare

@Porscha @sig @Dennis if youre town how can you townread mac who literally gave up at points and started doing some spew stuff preparing for his death. and also gave up pretending to be town at points

I think it's probably a good thought exercise to consider whether mafia spf and mafia mac would actually interact with each other in this way. Where has been my effort to put distance between us? I've played nothing like my wolf game with her.

I'd be more likely mafia with Tutuu if I was.

second sentence is clearly trying to get town paranoid if im maf with him, he expected to die

Tutuu had wishy washy nonsense reads on Jack and Wilgy early. She townread Dennis for nothing then out of nowhere started tunneling him (cuz he's Zealot).

blatant openwolfing / setting up spew on dennis

Btw Dennis is the zealot imo.

setting up spew

Okay Lucy I'm using my one time pass here. I only get one of these trust claims ever. We've discussed this. You know what I'm talking about. I'm breaking the glass.

did you expect this to work?

Well I wouldn't do something that goofy as mafia like ever.

openwolfing, resigning that he was the chop so might as well say something funny

Okay Lucy I'm using my one time pass here. I only get one of these trust claims ever. We've discussed this. You know what I'm talking about. I'm breaking the glass.

.

I might be being super dumb about Creature but something about his posts just pocket me. And he really doesn't seem like he can be with Tutuu. Tutuu also seems to have a lot of sanctimony when arguing with SPF about her and Creature being compatible.

I think Tutuu probably was just being an active pockety wolf with the Creature save attempts and thought sig would go over easily but then sig got super super townie and then I decided to try to bait mafia to vote sig and made myself look scummy cuz Creature didn't die because he had the judgement card.

its just funny / trolling. please read the sentence carefully and imagine someone saying it in a serious tone.

sig, porscha, dennis, the one among u who is town - what are you doing?

why aren't you following the confirmed town power role who can obtain mech info about wolf?

@Sabiplz ill include u too just for good measure

im at a loss as to how u guys are ignoring lucy's wolf peeks, ignoring mac and spf wolfy outrage at being called mafia and just voting me (except sabi)

dennis and sig have been tunneling me. ok

@Porscha according to lucy there's literally a mechanically confirmed mafia between mac and spf. not both of them, but one. and u choose to vote for option C - me.

u bow down before mac so much that u trust him over lucy - sure. but that means spf is confirmed mafia ...

if u think im the mafia in me/spf and she's town, then mac is confirmed mafia

we have. a. confirmed. town. role. that. can. find. mafia. by. mech.

she. found. mafia.

vote. for. the. discovered. mafia.

???

I wasn't trying to ignore Lucy's peeks, I was trying to understand how it was mechanically possible

From the description of the role I did not understand how Lucy managed to confirm that one of the people in her group was confirmed not to have pulled the judgement card but I think maybe she pulled seanzie as a 3rd and he got nk'd so I'll just assume that

I haven't been tunneling you. I have been trolling you because you refused to work with me up until this point. Honestly that's why I've been trolling mostly everyone it's because no one interacted with me but instead watched me and said "oh yeah that's mafia okay next". It got frustrating. Sorry.

let me just repeat

@Porscha @Porscha @Porscha

according to lucy there's literally a mechanically confirmed mafia between mac and spf. not both of them, but one. and u choose to vote for option C - me.

literally what?

pinging you all too

@sig @Sabiplz @Dennis

Okay so

I am going to put my comprehension to the side for a while

I will [VOTE: Mac] aubergine.

If he flips wolf, don't question lucy again, spf and tutuu are town

If he flips town, bomb spf, then tutuu

I appreciate you being serious with me for a minute. You said you were trolling your scumreads because you scumread them. Is this not just an inherently bad way to play? When you don't take us seriously you can't change your read and it's just plugging your ears and refusing to acknowledge more content that should be read. You playing like this after I point it out is scum indicative to me. And I'm not saying you can't be silly too, it's when the silly/serious ratio is 100/0 is when it's a problem.

I think this just about sums up where I am after catch up, porscha trying to get us off wagons was pretty weird though

[DrWilgy]

Pushing sig with no scepticism is evidence to me that you are blatantly mafia just trying to find miselims. And your world building is equally as insincere.

Idk what holy grail of posts flipped your stance on Sig last cycle, but it didn't happen to me dude. We were even in agreement that Sigs ISO was poop and he was quite wolfy.

Suspecting him is one thing but you completely lack town doubt and you've opened today hard wolfsiding. The Jack and you finding each other stuff is hilariously blatant.

Dude, I'm out of fucks to give. There's also other players who I think actually have content enough to make me have doubt (you, Bereft, Tutuu, Jack. All these slots I'm unsure on, I'm more sure of others and don't feel like stressing further about things I'm pretty much accepting I won't get to.)

Sig hasn't done anything to warrant that he's not a wolf. Hell, last cycle I was between SPF, Creature and Sig somewhat in equal measure... Maybe SPF slightly behind. We got a "Creature is most likely bad" result and the next sign points to continue with Sig or try to find how Creature survived in you/SPF.

If you are town please just take me on faith today and vote with me. I know it's a strange ask but just do it.

We REALLY trying to trade in that faith coupon? After 5 or so years you only get one of these.

[robyn]

@Dennis i was just mentally preparing a message for you to vote spf and whether or not you understood mechanics

thankfully you do understand mechanics

however if we mislynch here we lose

and 2 mechanically confirmed mafia currently on tutuu which is the part that spews her town for me

nothing else to say to you that rereading d5 can’t show you

besides the important fact tutuu has pointed out, mafia need 1 town to vote with them and town loses

[Jackofhearts2005]

Internal analysis says there’s exactly 1 wolf in: Tutuu, Wilgy, Bereft, Dennis, Sig/Porscha (whoever isn’t the zealot)

I’m unsurprised to see Dennis switch back to the light. He’s my gth strongest townread in there. My heart tells me Tutuu and Wilgy are town but I haven’t done my due diligence there and likely won’t this calendar day.

Gut says the last wolf is Bereft. He’s gonna hate this post soooo much.

[robyn]

Lucy’s third target was Seanzie. Seanzie died and flipped vanilla town.

Judgement played by Seanzie/SPF/Mac. Ergo, at least one wolf in SPF/Mac.

@Bereft why did you not consider this theoretically possible scenario?

[sig]

@falcon45ca
@Sabiplz
@staypositivefriend
@Bereft
@sig
@Porscha

If any of you are intending to vote for myself or SPF today and sheep Lucy please let me know because I'm not going to try very hard if the game is already over.

If the 7 of us can coalesce and vote together on a mafia that'd be great.

Yea I’m down.

I’ll follow on by saying if Mac is mafia he’s got an entirely new set of meta than he’s had for like the 3+ years we’ve played together

[sig]

And it’s not my fault at all of town looses

[sig]

@Dennis i was just mentally preparing a message for you to vote spf and whether or not you understood mechanics

thankfully you do understand mechanics

however if we mislynch here we lose

and 2 mechanically confirmed mafia currently on tutuu which is the part that spews her town for me

nothing else to say to you that rereading d5 can’t show you

besides the important fact tutuu has pointed out, mafia need 1 town to vote with them and town loses

We have one more phase if we misvote here.

[robyn]

@Dennis i was just mentally preparing a message for you to vote spf and whether or not you understood mechanics

thankfully you do understand mechanics

however if we mislynch here we lose

and 2 mechanically confirmed mafia currently on tutuu which is the part that spews her town for me

nothing else to say to you that rereading d5 can’t show you

besides the important fact tutuu has pointed out, mafia need 1 town to vote with them and town loses

We have one more phase if we misvote here.

zealot exists making it a loss, mafia has stacked on tutuu

[sig]

@staypositivefriend please persuade me that Creature is not zealot. I don't want to chop him again and it not work.

I think it would be very hard for us to be misled into thinking that zealot in Sig/Porscha is not good info and you should reread if you didnt know this.

My understanding was that sig/porscha is the one who played the card that stopped the chop. I could have forgotten already.

I give up at this point. No and no.

This is why all these “mech” talk is pointless nobody even knows what the mech is and is just claiming other people are bad for said mech

[sig]

@Dennis i was just mentally preparing a message for you to vote spf and whether or not you understood mechanics

thankfully you do understand mechanics

however if we mislynch here we lose

and 2 mechanically confirmed mafia currently on tutuu which is the part that spews her town for me

nothing else to say to you that rereading d5 can’t show you

besides the important fact tutuu has pointed out, mafia need 1 town to vote with them and town loses

We have one more phase if we misvote here.

zealot exists making it a loss, mafia has stacked on tutuu

That’s only if we accidentally hit the zealot next phase if we vote out a mafia member who isn’t zealot we’re fine

[robyn]

13 left
11 means 6/5
6 town 5 mafia
nk and lynch
5 town 4 mafia
nk
4 town 3 mafia

mafia wins, and they’ve stacked on tutuu

[Jackofhearts2005]

@sig

Mechanically, there’s always one wolf in you and Portia. You’re voting with Porscha at lylo.

Mechanically, there’s always at least one wolf in SPF and Mac. A townie in that pair should want to thunderdome the other because it’s a flat red peek. Instead, they’re both doubling down on their mutual townreads and trying to whip up votes. The logical conclusion is they’re both wolves and want to just win today. An alternative but far less likely conclusion is that one is pocketed badly and doesn’t understand the mechanical red and the other is a wolf.

Best case scenario, you are choosing to vote with two wolves at lylo. More likely, you’re choosing to vote with three. If you’re town, you need to vote with the Lucy gang.

And if you wanna be stupid and ignore game mech, consider that wolves have consistently shot outside the towncore. It makes little sense on its face to shoot Robdo and Seanzie (no offense ya’ll) over Mac, SPF, Bereft, Tutuu, Jack. But if SPF and Mac are both wolves, then you never shoot them and you never shoot Bereft who (if town) is hard pocketed by both and you don’t shoot Jack who is hard pocketed by SPF and is (probably) pushing incorrect scum in Tutuu/Wilgy. And you don’t shoot Tutuu over Rondo when she’s in a similar incorrect state and then you don’t kill her over Seanzie, hoping Tutuu and Jack eat each other alive and hand you the win.

Everything in this game clicks into place when SPF and Mac are wolves and nothing makes sense at all if they’re both town. And that’s if you ignore mech and basic ass game theory that says they’re both just wolves anyway.

Townies in

@Bereft @Porscha @DrWilgy @Dennis need to hear this, too. Wilgy and Dennis are probably on board but whatever. Like I said earlier, not only does town need to vote correctly, we need to not give the wolves a place to hide with incorrect townies. All townies follow Lucy and the last wolf is forced to follow us and we yeet correctly yay or out to continue pushing for a misyeet (and then we yeet correctly anyway yay).

[Bereft]

Lucy’s third target was Seanzie. Seanzie died and flipped vanilla town.

Judgement played by Seanzie/SPF/Mac. Ergo, at least one wolf in SPF/Mac.

@Bereft why did you not consider this theoretically possible scenario?

Its obviously theoretically possible that one of Mac and SPF played the judgement card that saved Creature. Its rather obvious that you picked Mac/SPF/prolly Seanzie because theyre now conftown but werent previously. The issue is that I dont care because I think Mac and SPF are town and the math on that judgement card being the only judgement card in play is horrible.

[Bereft]

Curious though. What player do you think is most similar to sig/porscha.

[robyn]

Lucy’s third target was Seanzie. Seanzie died and flipped vanilla town.

Judgement played by Seanzie/SPF/Mac. Ergo, at least one wolf in SPF/Mac.

@Bereft why did you not consider this theoretically possible scenario?

Its obviously theoretically possible that one of Mac and SPF played the judgement card that saved Creature. Its rather obvious that you picked Mac/SPF/prolly Seanzie because theyre now conftown but werent previously. The issue is that I dont care because I think Mac and SPF are town and the math on that judgement card being the only judgement card in play is horrible.

Judgement - Judgement, Rebirth, Inner Calling, Absolution. This card will not be used more than once in the game. The player who draws this card has the choice whether or not to absolve the person who gains the most votes in the following day poll, resulting in no elimination.

[Bereft]

My interpretation has been that the Judgement card can be only played once not drawn only once, whoever holds a Judgement card immediately loses their ability to use it if someone else uses it.

Hold up lemme check smth. I might be able to allude to knowing this has to be true.

[Bereft]

Ok lets see how to go about wording this.

[Bereft]

Honestly this setup makes no sense and shouldve been clarified ages ago.

I will go do "insrt here blah blah blah" i cant talk

[Bereft]

Oop might be a while.

[robyn]

My interpretation has been that the Judgement card can be only played once not drawn only once, whoever holds a Judgement card immediately loses their ability to use it if someone else uses it.

Hold up lemme check smth. I might be able to allude to knowing this has to be true.

why do you question my mech?

don't you understand i've gone through every step you've gone through and have came to the mechanically correct conclusion which effects my perspective of the game outing one in spf/mac minimum

do you not see the concerted effort to ignore the mech because it outs players?

[Bereft]

Okay the math gets better for Lucy's POV.

[robyn]

sig/porscha/sabi/spf/mac gg

[Bereft]

My interpretation has been that the Judgement card can be only played once not drawn only once, whoever holds a Judgement card immediately loses their ability to use it if someone else uses it.

Hold up lemme check smth. I might be able to allude to knowing this has to be true.

why do you question my mech?

don't you understand i've gone through every step you've gone through and have came to the mechanically correct conclusion which effects my perspective of the game outing one in spf/mac minimum

do you not see the concerted effort to ignore the mech because it outs players?

You broke my trust once tbh.

[sig]

Lucy’s third target was Seanzie. Seanzie died and flipped vanilla town.

Judgement played by Seanzie/SPF/Mac. Ergo, at least one wolf in SPF/Mac.

@Bereft why did you not consider this theoretically possible scenario?

Its obviously theoretically possible that one of Mac and SPF played the judgement card that saved Creature. Its rather obvious that you picked Mac/SPF/prolly Seanzie because theyre now conftown but werent previously. The issue is that I dont care because I think Mac and SPF are town and the math on that judgement card being the only judgement card in play is horrible.

If this is accurate why not vote for creature this phase then?

[Bereft]

Ok so >=1 in Mac/SPF or smtg

[sig]

I just don’t get how out of a new pov of five (maybe) we’re deciding to go with SPF/Mac and not another wolfy player to at least confirm Lucy is correct.

[sig]

Ok so >=1 in Mac/SPF or smtg

and we’re assuming they played the card for him and In doing so they’re mafia?

[Bereft]

To summarize.

The No Hang means someone played the Judgement card that they received the night before the hang.

The person who received the Judgement card is within Mac/SPF/ ????

And ??? Better be Seanzie or smth otherwise I will flip out.

So since a Judgement card was used, one of Mac/SPF/??? played it.

[Dennis]

I think the way lucy has replied confirmed, to me, that the 3rd person in the grouping she checked last night was in fact Seanzie

[sig]

To summarize.

The No Hang means someone played the Judgement card that they received the night before the hang.

The person who received the Judgement card is within Mac/SPF/ ????

And ??? Better be Seanzie or smth otherwise I will flip out.

So since a Judgement card was used, one of Mac/SPF/??? played it.

Or he’s the zealot yes.

But, in my mind this isn’t a solid red check on anyone until we resolve creature. Macs last post was saying he thought it was T/T that could’ve been a civ move or it couldn’t have been idk.

My thing is why are we going with a maybe 50/50 shot, and assuming the mech is correct when it isn’t the same as a solid red check? Especially if we’re saying creature was saved by mafia, but he isn’t mafia? The world where mafia does that is slim and makes very little sense

[robyn]

To summarize.

The No Hang means someone played the Judgement card that they received the night before the hang.

The person who received the Judgement card is within Mac/SPF/ ????

And ??? Better be Seanzie or smth otherwise I will flip out.

So since a Judgement card was used, one of Mac/SPF/??? played it.

the part that outs spf and sabi in particular is the interference that i believe occurred, they were very quick to call it me getting roleblocked (too quickly) and mac/spf/sabi used the particular arguments that suggest tmi that i was not telling the truth

1) argument being "lying and FPSing"
2) hail marry by me on personal reads
3) egotistical play

now the problem here is that all of these arguments were presuming the axiom that i was not telling the truth, something too quickly assumed and not actually established. these arguments are all ones that directly cater to what mafia believe happened because they believed i was successfully interfered with mechanically

they believed i was fps'ing so the arguments would work, the arguments were off in that they assumed too much and tried gaslighting me too hard in the face of actual mech

because there is one in mac/spf that clearly implies the other due to threadstate, NK's and everything that has gone on along with my personal reads