The Late Bronze Age Collapse [END]

[LinearPoint]

Granted I don't really see a world where I survive tonight because there is just no good argument for my role being Mafia. The only thing I could be is Mafia Doublevoter and there is just no world where that competes against Town Jailkeeper and Town Vigilante. So I guess I'll speak to you in 25 hours Guillotine.

[Epignosis]

What the devil is FPS? I am old.

Fancy Play Syndrome

[Guillotine]

And that's ignoring the fact that you continued to claim Parity Cop for a while into day 2, going so far as to suggest at one point Epignosis is a Town lying about being a Power Role to try and get you killed.

Who is Guillotine's partner?

Who is evil if Guillotine is not mafia?

Well it kind of depends on if Guillotine is a Goon or Power Role. I'm of the belief they are a Mafia Rolecop. If this is correct I would expect one of MR, SVS, Falcon, or Epignosis since none of them are confirmed Power Roles and I do not believe 2 Mafia Power Roles. I trust SVS and Epignosis socially to not be Mafia with Guillotine so that leaves either MR or Falcon, both are honestly equally likely in my eyes though I am leaning on MR because Falcon's day 1 felt pretty good.

If Guillotine is a Mafia Goon, that does still throw into question if we actually have 3 Town Power Roles or not. It's really hard to say because Guillotine is just so all over the place right now. I think I trust Epignosis to not be claiming as a way to out their partner. I could see Mafia Vigilante and thus Seanzie. Guillotine suggested this could be the case, but I am not putting it out of the realm of possibilities Guillotine isn't just distancing from Seanzie because they knew they were screwed.

If Guillotine is Town then I think I would agree with Guillotine about Mafia Vigilante. I was sort of suspecting this world for a while since mechanically speaking 1 additional death via a Vigilante just puts the game to 3v2 instead of 4v2 day 2 if Town double outed Townies days 1 and 2. So realistically it's not changing anything and completely viable for Vigilante to be either alignment. Jailkeeper is much in the same boat. The two could realistically be opposite alignments or the same alignment and that's not something that will mechanically be confirmable. My opinion is that Seanzie has felt socially more townie than Epignosis and Epignosis could have just have gotten a good read that the Parity Cop claim was complete BS with a Mafia Jailkeeper in play and outed to try and gain some good karma for pushing the lying Parity Cop. There is a world where all 3 Power Roles are town, but I am having trouble thinking of what Mafia Power Role could even be in play to balance that out, even if others assume I am lying and a Mafia Double Voter that is in no way nearly strong enough to counter Town Jailkeeper + Town Vigilante. So I'm leaning on the 3 Power Role claims just being the actual 3 Power Roles and we have nothing else in play. I'd have to think further from there about if the Jailkeeper or Vigilante is Mafia and who their partner would be. It would still come down to 1 of Epignosis/Seanzie and then 1 of MR/SVS/Falcon. Right now I'd suspect Seanize/MR.

No, it does not make sense to give mafia extra kill power in a 10 player game now that i think about it.

Town gets the vig to have a chance at killing mafia and scum gets jailkeeper to have a chance at blocking that kill against them.
Plus, if you guys didnt believe my parity cop claim because it was unlikely, then why in the hell you'd believe that his jk is only for day 1?

[Epignosis]

What the devil is FPS? I am old.

Fancy Play Syndrome

Oh, I know this term. It's a poker term. Not a separate mafia term. Got it.

[Guillotine]

What the devil is FPS? I am old.

Fancy Play Syndrome

Oh, I know this term. It's a poker term. Not a separate mafia term. Got it.

It's the equivalent of bluffing

[Epignosis]

And that's ignoring the fact that you continued to claim Parity Cop for a while into day 2, going so far as to suggest at one point Epignosis is a Town lying about being a Power Role to try and get you killed.

Who is Guillotine's partner?

Who is evil if Guillotine is not mafia?

Well it kind of depends on if Guillotine is a Goon or Power Role. I'm of the belief they are a Mafia Rolecop. If this is correct I would expect one of MR, SVS, Falcon, or Epignosis since none of them are confirmed Power Roles and I do not believe 2 Mafia Power Roles. I trust SVS and Epignosis socially to not be Mafia with Guillotine so that leaves either MR or Falcon, both are honestly equally likely in my eyes though I am leaning on MR because Falcon's day 1 felt pretty good.

If Guillotine is a Mafia Goon, that does still throw into question if we actually have 3 Town Power Roles or not. It's really hard to say because Guillotine is just so all over the place right now. I think I trust Epignosis to not be claiming as a way to out their partner. I could see Mafia Vigilante and thus Seanzie. Guillotine suggested this could be the case, but I am not putting it out of the realm of possibilities Guillotine isn't just distancing from Seanzie because they knew they were screwed.

If Guillotine is Town then I think I would agree with Guillotine about Mafia Vigilante. I was sort of suspecting this world for a while since mechanically speaking 1 additional death via a Vigilante just puts the game to 3v2 instead of 4v2 day 2 if Town double outed Townies days 1 and 2. So realistically it's not changing anything and completely viable for Vigilante to be either alignment. Jailkeeper is much in the same boat. The two could realistically be opposite alignments or the same alignment and that's not something that will mechanically be confirmable. My opinion is that Seanzie has felt socially more townie than Epignosis and Epignosis could have just have gotten a good read that the Parity Cop claim was complete BS with a Mafia Jailkeeper in play and outed to try and gain some good karma for pushing the lying Parity Cop. There is a world where all 3 Power Roles are town, but I am having trouble thinking of what Mafia Power Role could even be in play to balance that out, even if others assume I am lying and a Mafia Double Voter that is in no way nearly strong enough to counter Town Jailkeeper + Town Vigilante. So I'm leaning on the 3 Power Role claims just being the actual 3 Power Roles and we have nothing else in play. I'd have to think further from there about if the Jailkeeper or Vigilante is Mafia and who their partner would be. It would still come down to 1 of Epignosis/Seanzie and then 1 of MR/SVS/Falcon. Right now I'd suspect Seanize/MR.

No, it does not make sense to give mafia extra kill power in a 10 player game now that i think about it.

Town gets the vig to have a chance at killing mafia and scum gets jailkeeper to have a chance at blocking that kill against them.
Plus, if you guys didnt believe my parity cop claim because it was unlikely, then why in the hell you'd believe that his jk is only for day 1?

Night 1.

Can't Jail someone Day 1.

[Guillotine]

What happened to your aggro eh?

Up until you slipped you were very hostilevagainst me but you surely tone it down after that lol.

I got you good man

[Guillotine]

And that's ignoring the fact that you continued to claim Parity Cop for a while into day 2, going so far as to suggest at one point Epignosis is a Town lying about being a Power Role to try and get you killed.

Who is Guillotine's partner?

Who is evil if Guillotine is not mafia?

Well it kind of depends on if Guillotine is a Goon or Power Role. I'm of the belief they are a Mafia Rolecop. If this is correct I would expect one of MR, SVS, Falcon, or Epignosis since none of them are confirmed Power Roles and I do not believe 2 Mafia Power Roles. I trust SVS and Epignosis socially to not be Mafia with Guillotine so that leaves either MR or Falcon, both are honestly equally likely in my eyes though I am leaning on MR because Falcon's day 1 felt pretty good.

If Guillotine is a Mafia Goon, that does still throw into question if we actually have 3 Town Power Roles or not. It's really hard to say because Guillotine is just so all over the place right now. I think I trust Epignosis to not be claiming as a way to out their partner. I could see Mafia Vigilante and thus Seanzie. Guillotine suggested this could be the case, but I am not putting it out of the realm of possibilities Guillotine isn't just distancing from Seanzie because they knew they were screwed.

If Guillotine is Town then I think I would agree with Guillotine about Mafia Vigilante. I was sort of suspecting this world for a while since mechanically speaking 1 additional death via a Vigilante just puts the game to 3v2 instead of 4v2 day 2 if Town double outed Townies days 1 and 2. So realistically it's not changing anything and completely viable for Vigilante to be either alignment. Jailkeeper is much in the same boat. The two could realistically be opposite alignments or the same alignment and that's not something that will mechanically be confirmable. My opinion is that Seanzie has felt socially more townie than Epignosis and Epignosis could have just have gotten a good read that the Parity Cop claim was complete BS with a Mafia Jailkeeper in play and outed to try and gain some good karma for pushing the lying Parity Cop. There is a world where all 3 Power Roles are town, but I am having trouble thinking of what Mafia Power Role could even be in play to balance that out, even if others assume I am lying and a Mafia Double Voter that is in no way nearly strong enough to counter Town Jailkeeper + Town Vigilante. So I'm leaning on the 3 Power Role claims just being the actual 3 Power Roles and we have nothing else in play. I'd have to think further from there about if the Jailkeeper or Vigilante is Mafia and who their partner would be. It would still come down to 1 of Epignosis/Seanzie and then 1 of MR/SVS/Falcon. Right now I'd suspect Seanize/MR.

No, it does not make sense to give mafia extra kill power in a 10 player game now that i think about it.

Town gets the vig to have a chance at killing mafia and scum gets jailkeeper to have a chance at blocking that kill against them.
Plus, if you guys didnt believe my parity cop claim because it was unlikely, then why in the hell you'd believe that his jk is only for day 1?

Night 1.

Can't Jail someone Day 1.

You getbthe point

[Epignosis]

What happened to your aggro eh?

Up until you slipped you were very hostilevagainst me but you surely tone it down after that lol.

I got you good man

Watch this.

[Epignosis]

What happened to your aggro eh?

Booze.

[Guillotine]

Ah booze does have that effect

You are still mafia booze or not though

[Epignosis]

Ah booze does have that effect

You are still mafia booze or not though

I am a drinker. That's for sure.

I don't know what your second line means though.

All the same, I think you've been a sporting player regardless of your alignment. I want you to know that.

[Epignosis]

Oh, second line just needs a comma. Got it.

[Epignosis]

Currently I think Guillotine and MasterRadishes are teammates.

[LinearPoint]

I hate to inform you of this Guillotine, but Mafia 1-shot Vigilante is mechanically sound in a 10P setups. A vigilante if Town it gives an additional shot at possibly killing a Mafia and for Mafia it gives them a chance to kill a confirmed Power Role.

The thing is with no additional kills at night a 10P game WCS for town is 8v2 -> 6v2 -> 4v2 -> 2v2 after 3 misschops. A Vigilante (reguardless of alignment) does not change that mechanically since it goes 8v2 -> 5v2 -> 3v2 -> 1v2 and it is still 3 misschops for Town. The roles is pretty setup agnostic I'd say. Granted yes Vigilante is often Town and not Mafia given my role is mechanically conformable by day 1 vote shenanigans Mafia Vigilante does have a little bit more merit in my opinion.

But I suppose @Epignosis if you are Mafia, can you shoot Seanzie tonight so I don't have to be paranoid about a Mafia Vigilante? K thx.

[Epignosis]

But I suppose @Epignosis if you are Mafia, can you shoot Seanzie tonight so I don't have to be paranoid about a Mafia Vigilante? K thx.

You got it dude.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 2 has ended. @Guillotine was eliminated. He was:

Spoiler: show

You're a civilization fighting for survival (town).

You have no special abilities.

Night 2 will last 24 hours.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 2 final poll

Spoiler: show

Day 2
Poll ended at Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:00 pm


Epignosis
1
13%
Voters: Guillotine
falcon45ca
0
No votes
Voters: None
Guillotine
5
63%
Voters: Epignosis, Seanzie, S~V~S, falcon45ca, LinearPoint
LinearPoint
0
No votes
Voters: None
Master Radishes
0
No votes
Voters: None
S~V~S
0
No votes
Voters: None
Seanzie
0
No votes
Voters: None
No elimination
0
No votes
Voters: None
No vote
0
No votes
Voters: None
9 parts copper, 1 part tin (spec)
2
25%
Voters: Scotty, JaggedJimmyJay
Total votes: 8

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guillotine was the Phoenician city states of the Levant. The Phoenicians were a scattered people of loosely connected cultures primarily in the Levantine region of the east Mediterranean, but in time they expanded to a vast mercantile empire that surrounded the southern portion of the sea. They did not truly collapse alongside the other peoples of the Late Bronze Age Collapse era, and it might have been their economic guile and unique charisma that kept them standing. The Sea Peoples that invaded and destroyed so many major settlements in the region seemed to leave the Phoenician city-states of Sidon, Tyre, and Byblos essentially unmolested, and scholars generally attribute this to their being paid off or hired for protection. They essentially turned those who would pillage their lands into their garrisons instead. Indeed, as their large imperial neighbors fell into ruin, it was often the Phoenicians that filled the void. They established themselves as an economic superpower, because even in times of great strife... someone must profit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Night 2 has ended. @LinearPoint was killed. She was:

Spoiler: show

You're a civilization fighting for survival (town).

Your vote is worth extra, but only with diminishing returns. On Day 1, your vote is worth two votes. On Day 2, your vote is worth one-half vote extra. On Day 3 and beyond, your vote is ordinary.

LinearPoint was the great Assyrian empire stretching across the northern Mesopotamian landscape. For their time in the region, the Assyrians were a military power arguably without equal. Like the Phoenicians I discussed previously, the Assyrians survived the Late Bronze Age Collapse, but in a weakened frame. They ceded territory to the Elamite-Babylonians to the south, and their stranglehold over the region generally waned even as their neighbors (like the Hittites to the north) collapsed completely. They were fortunate to make it through, however, even if not at full strength, because they eventually reasserted themselves as the absolute dominating force in Mesopotamia into the first millennium BCE. Very unfortunately, the long-standing ruins of the Assyrian capital at Nineveh were severely damaged in the 2010s by ISIS and other insurgents that viewed them as heretical and offensive. To me, it's an unforgivable crime.

Day 3 will last 48 hours. Votes are NOT locked, as there is still no hammer. Voting proceeds as it has throughout the game. Town must eliminate correctly to stay alive.

[Epignosis]

I, like the departed fart storyteller, lied about my role.

I put S~V~S in the hoosegow last night. Obviously that accomplished nothing.

[Epignosis]

This means S~V~S could be mafia but did not kill LinearPoint. Therefore I won't be voting S~V~S today.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

[Master Radishes]

I hate when games get hard.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

For now.

[Master Radishes]

This means S~V~S could be mafia but did not kill LinearPoint. Therefore I won't be voting S~V~S today.

I don't quite get how the first sentence leads to the second. SVS' odds of being mafia haven't changed. It just means she would be smart enough not to carry a kill when her biggest detractor is a jailkeeper.

[Master Radishes]

I'm going to settle on Epi being town, at least for this round. I can nitpick certain things if I wanted to, but I don't feel it.

-His general vibe feels like he is trying to solve. He has a bit of bite to him, like when he latches on to SVS and then Guillo, mixed with his typical sense of humour - he doesn't seem like he's concentrating on his own appearance, just doing what comes naturally in the moment.

-He sounds like he really believes his Guillo read in particular. He can't resist responding to Guillo, repeating certain points, etc. No big fancy cases, just conviction.

-The way he claimed (claiming he forgot to target someone) feels just so...unnecessary if he's a wolf. What's the agenda to it? And coming into today and using his claim to back off SVS, who it would be really easy to get miskilled, is another point in his favour.

-Probably other things but I don't want to spend more time on this.


Epi is either exactly powerwolfing the fuck out of us, which is not impossible, or he's just town. For now, I'm going to stick with that philosopher dude's razor.

[Master Radishes]

The slot I am spending the most time tossing around in my head now is Seanzie. That Wilgy shot was...something. I know he had reasoning for it, but it's still a choice I don't think many town vigs make, whereas Seanzie, imo, is bold enough to just openwolf and shoot an active civilian and cross his fingers we clear him for it.

It feels *unlikely* that in 10p setup the mafia get a Vig, but weirder things have happened I suppose.

I don't like settling on an exact team (SVS/Falcon). If one of those is actually town, I think Seanzie is the wolf over Epi.

[S~V~S]

I, like the departed fart storyteller, lied about my role.

I put S~V~S in the hoosegow last night. Obviously that accomplished nothing.

I am disappoint; I thought "Jailkeeper" also had a BTS aspect to it. Although that negates it's role block aspect so it would not make sense.

I'm going to reread Radishes today. He seems sad every time someone says I am possibly not bad, without making any major pushes to me himself.

[Master Radishes]

I, like the departed fart storyteller, lied about my role.

I put S~V~S in the hoosegow last night. Obviously that accomplished nothing.

I am disappoint; I thought "Jailkeeper" also had a BTS aspect to it. Although that negates it's role block aspect so it would not make sense.

I'm going to reread Radishes today. He seems sad every time someone says I am possibly not bad, without making any major pushes to me himself.

You're not special - I've made no major pushes on anyone.

[Master Radishes]

I don't know what to do with Falcon. His D1 iso is fine, nothing I'd call clearing but nothing I find wrong with it. His D2 iso is empty.

Nothing I read gives me feelings of any sort. He has three real suspects, SVS + Guillo + Cat, and they feel organic enough. He starts on SVS, later switches to Guillo and pushes that one harder, then towards the end of D1 noticed Cat doing nothing much and starts the wagon there. His progression through it all feels fine to me; I can sense his mindset as his reads evolve. Equally, it's all fairly consensus-y, and when it's not (pretty sure he was the first to vote Cat) it was just the lowest poster and it's not like he could stay on a cop-claiming Guillo anyway. Then D2 he drops off completely, which I'll treat as NAI I guess.

I kind of expected to read his iso and feel fine with him as a scum possibility, but I guess nothing in life comes easy.

[Master Radishes]

@falcon45ca If you're town, you and I are the designated game-losing lylo chop options. Come do towny things!

[Master Radishes]

I've left reading SVS till last and ran out of time.

If anyone suggests she's possibly not bad I'll bet sad

[Master Radishes]

*be, not bet


SVS, that's the 'scared' emoji, not the 'sad' one!

[Seanzie]

Well, looks like I need to put my big-boy pants on now. And by now, I mean after work today.

[falcon45ca]

@falcon45ca If you're town, you and I are the designated game-losing lylo chop options. Come do towny things!

Alright then.





I'm used to being mislynch bait, so this is familiar territory

[falcon45ca]

Wait, yer voting me?





MR says he & I are designated game-losing lylo chop...after he's received a vote, then he votes for me w/o having expressed any SR that I've seen...hmmmmmm

[Master Radishes]

Wait, yer voting me?





MR says he & I are designated game-losing lylo chop...after he's received a vote, then he votes for me w/o having expressed any SR that I've seen...hmmmmmm

You fit with everyone as a partner. Then I read your iso and didn't find the obvious scum agenda and now I don't know what to think.

I want to vote SVS more right now, but haven't done my homework on her yet.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

For you, falcon.

[falcon45ca]

I, like the departed fart storyteller, lied about my role.

I put S~V~S in the hoosegow last night. Obviously that accomplished nothing.

Why SVS?






Given LPs vote ability, there was a very good chance they'd take the NK, why wouldn't you hoosegrow them over SVS?

[falcon45ca]

Wait, yer voting me?





MR says he & I are designated game-losing lylo chop...after he's received a vote, then he votes for me w/o having expressed any SR that I've seen...hmmmmmm

You fit with everyone as a partner. Then I read your iso and didn't find the obvious scum agenda and now I don't know what to think.

I want to vote SVS more right now, but haven't done my homework on her yet.

Talk to me about SVS & Epi.







I'm not sure what to make of Epi's choice, and frankly on the surface it appears a blatant attempt to remove 2 players from lynch contention this RD

[falcon45ca]

Level 1 reads say it's either MR/Sean, or SVS/Epi teams

[Master Radishes]

Level 1 reads say it's either MR/Sean, or SVS/Epi teams

Epi went after SVS pretty hard in D1. It felt unpaired to me.

Your point on his choice of target is a good one. Maybe I'll look again at how his suss on her developed.

I've not independently iso'd SVS yet (I'm wasting time from life admin stuff right now) so will get back to you on her.

[falcon45ca]

Level 1 reads say it's either MR/Sean, or SVS/Epi teams

Epi went after SVS pretty hard in D1. It felt unpaired to me.

Your point on his choice of target is a good one. Maybe I'll look again at how his suss on her developed.

I've not independently iso'd SVS yet (I'm wasting time from life admin stuff right now) so will get back to you on her.

I'll take a look as well...perhaps I'm misremembering, but I feel Epi somewhat piggybacked off others sus of SVS slot.





That's partner distancing 101 IMO. Imma take a look

[Epignosis]

This means S~V~S could be mafia but did not kill LinearPoint. Therefore I won't be voting S~V~S today.

I don't quite get how the first sentence leads to the second. SVS' odds of being mafia haven't changed. It just means she would be smart enough not to carry a kill when her biggest detractor is a jailkeeper.

I lied about the Night 1 element of my role. Nobody knew that. When S~V~S was tied to my Guillotine suspicion, and Guillotine perished with no stain, I picked S~V~S thinking she might be bold enough to make a kill.

In any event, it didn't block a kill, and we play this out vanilla style.

[Epignosis]

I, like the departed fart storyteller, lied about my role.

I put S~V~S in the hoosegow last night. Obviously that accomplished nothing.

Why SVS?






Given LPs vote ability, there was a very good chance they'd take the NK, why wouldn't you hoosegrow them over SVS?

I thought about LP, but two things deterred me:

1) LP lying about the role (much like I did) and hindering doing something else useful, and

2) I wanted to catch a killer. Saving LP doesn't move the numbers at this point.

[Epignosis]

*me hindering LP doing something else useful

[Master Radishes]

This means S~V~S could be mafia but did not kill LinearPoint. Therefore I won't be voting S~V~S today.

I don't quite get how the first sentence leads to the second. SVS' odds of being mafia haven't changed. It just means she would be smart enough not to carry a kill when her biggest detractor is a jailkeeper.

I lied about the Night 1 element of my role. Nobody knew that. When S~V~S was tied to my Guillotine suspicion, and Guillotine perished with no stain, I picked S~V~S thinking she might be bold enough to make a kill.

In any event, it didn't block a kill, and we play this out vanilla style.

As we've established this game, people lie about their claimed role mechanics. SVS/whoever could easily have hedged their bets and had 'whoever' make the kill instead.

I just don't think your JK failing moves the needle on SVS' alignment one way or the other.

[Master Radishes]

I actually have days off so I'll do more tomorrow.

I'm anchoring any team on SVS right now, but am not sure on who with.

[Epignosis]

I am so so so goddamn tired

of seeing Seanzie

after I have clicked on "The Emperor's Soul"

saying, "Woo! Well done everyone! Good game! Always exciting seeing a game get down to F3."